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Seqqy
11
Sep 23, 2019
checkVerified Buyer
Best pair of cans I've ever owned
Edit: These are the best headphones that I have had the pleasure of hearing to date, and while that may not sound like much coming from the mouth of some random dude on Drop's Reviews thread, I have reason to feel as strongly as I do about the HE-4XXs as I will attempt to describe here. For context, I have had the privilege to sample many pairs from enthusiast friends (new and experienced alike), listening to cans such as the HD-6XXs, HD-58Xs, HiFiMan Sundaras, and even Audeze LCD-2s (w/ their bamboo fazors). When I first ordered the HE-4XXs from Drop, I coordinated with a local friend to have him bring over his year-old HD-6XXs since I was, at this point, doubtful that the HE-4XXs would be substantially better in any capacity. The HD-6XXs are often considered quite endgame for the mid-fi/dynamics bracket, and their reputation is entirely deserved (I was actually looking at a pair of HD-6XXs originally, but decided to try the HE-4XXs to test the quality difference/planar drivers versus the HD-6XXs of my friend, and was entirely expecting to return the HE-4XXs if I found them inferior to his). Onto the initial thoughts. Straight from the box to the PC (without dedicated amp/dac at this point), the HD-6XXs were better, absolutely no contest. Much clearer in mids/highs with more bass presence, although the HE-4XX's bass quality was noticeably better despite not having a powerful amp to feed it. Its soundstage was also a noticeable upgrade from the 6XX's which, by contrast, sound very intimate, or less open. I would have happily returned the 4XXs at this point as the 6XXs fed much better without dedicated equipment... but I was the owner of a Modi/Magni 3 and got ready to pick these two pairs apart, quality-wise—and let me tell you, the 4XXs absolutely need to be fed by a dedicated amp. The 4XXs immediately opened up, delivering a far more powerful and commanding sound in both lows and highs... when comparing to the 6XXs after this switch, the 4XX's weakest points were most certainly in its mids. While clear, they had a very shallow presentation and sounded grossly recessed compared to the incredibly intimate and buttery mids of the 6XXs. While the 6XXs didn't benefit as significantly from the dedicated amp/dac in the form of Modi & Magni, they did produce an audibly "fuller" sound than without, I felt—yet even with this, the 4XXs fell a bit flat in bass presence, mid presence, and often strayed into somewhat sibilant highs (though they did not at all falter in accuracy). Yet again, this left me with an excellent case to simply go out, return these during Drop's RMA period, and grab a pair of 6XXs that would do the job perfectly for all of my uses. In my mind, however, I honestly felt as if the 4XXs were a lot more capable than the impression they were giving, and I thus decided to stick with them and research anything that could take advantage of this potential. Being a well-priced set of cans, I wouldn't worry if I voided the warranty with my tinkering. As to not crowd this post any further than it already is, I will just keep it brief by saying that the mods transformed these headphones from a subpar planar sidegrade of the HD-6XX—to what was by far, as the title itself states, the best pair of cans I have personally heard. I put an ungodly amount of effort into bringing these things to life (approx. three weeks of research + modification), and I'd ultimately realized by the end of it that their potential remained untapped in their base form. I was absolutely shocked when I had my HD-6XX-owning friend back over for an a/b. As an addendum of my personal experience, the build quality is solid enough (but could definitely stand to be improved, the HD-6XXs are, again, superior in build quality), but if you're up to putting in some research and effort (which I must admit was hella fun and educational for me), you can turn these things right around and bring these planars to life. As long as you don't rip and manhandle these headphones (you know, as you're not supposed to do with fragile and potentially breakable equipment), I highly doubt you will hurt anything as others in this thread have been showing. Bottom line: I think the fairest way of putting this given my subjective experiences with the HE-4XXs and cans such as the HD-6XXs can be boiled down to this analogy (indulge me for a moment, if you will)—the HD-6XXs come to you as polished, crisp-cut sapphire. They are beautiful, easy, and most of all, far more cost-friendly than modding the HE-4XXs would be. They come to you at what is more objectively their fullest operating potential. The HE-4XXs, however, come to you as something else in the form of a diamond in the rough—they are unpolished, murky, and somewhat unrefined to the likes of the 6XX. The 4XXs are going to require effort and research into polishing, cutting and "prettying up" a diamond, or pair of headphones, as it were. However, once I performed the admittedly daunting AND relatively expensive act of polishing and cutting these cans, the HE-4XXs for me are now the equivalent of audio diamonds. I've since compared the modded version to my friend's HD-6XXs as mentioned above, and he and I both agreed this time that the HE-4XXs were superior in many of the regards they were previously seen by both of us as inferior—and he's actually perfectly fine with that. We both love our headphones, and they both have their strengths, their advantages. There are things that I love about the 6XXs still (things that keep him attached to them, of course), and things that I absolutely adore about the 4XXs that he wholeheartedly agreed upon. Either way you shake it, they're both great cans... but from my personal experience, I will continue to maintain that the 4XXs have the higher potential. They are now a very fun, musical and detailed set where I once saw them as dry, unbalanced and muddy. To me, that makes owning these all the more valuable—the fact that you brought out the best by using your own hands and expertise, and I will continue to (haughtily, as some might think) say that I genuinely and wholeheartedly prefer these to the LCD-2s I spent a few hours with back in 2018. They are just that fun and detailed to me now! Verdict: To anyone out there interested in a no-fuss set without any potential hidden expenses which also sound excellent at stock, get the Sennheiser HD-6XXs. You will not be disappointed. Although, if you do decide on the HiFiMan HE-4XXs, be prepared to mod them, get technical with them, and buy a dedicated amp/dac to bring that aforementioned potential out. Despite the current absolutely ridiculous sale of the HE-4XXs, Senns will ultimately be the cheaper net investment and provide you with an amazing experience all the same. All that being said, thank you for reading, and I will endeavor to answer any questions that are asked!
(Edited)
Recommends this product? Yes
jelly-bowl
52
Oct 12, 2019
SeqqyDo you actually own the 6XX? I like these Hifiman headphones for some of their qualities, but they are not nearly as enjoyable to listen to as the HD6XX’ or my HD660S’ that I actually own and run balanced. I will likely get a balanced cable for these Hifiman’s and see how that improves them, otherwise I would not recommend these over the 6XX’ any day of the week.
Seqqy
11
Oct 14, 2019
jelly-bowlMy buddy has a pair of 6XXs that we've conducted a comparison with 2ish months ago when I received this pair—I did not mention this in my original review but definitely should have. Out of the box, the 4XXs sounded like complete and utter rubbish compared to the 6XXs. Very shallow, muddy and overall not an improvement over the previous (cheap) headset I had. Comparatively, 6XXs sounded simply "present" when hooked up to the PC internal amp/dac. We moved onto the dedicated amp/dac test using a Schiit Stack, and 4XXs immediately opened up (finally being fed some proper power to drive its planars), and 6XXs were presented with a noticeable touch of extra detail, most likely benefiting from the dac more than the amp. At this point, the 6XXs had more bass presence (but less bass accuracy). 4XXs boasted the fast planar bass as many describe them. Mids and highs were a bit more subjective, but I actually preferred the 6XX mids to the 4XX's; though the highs were a split match for us as I liked both. Other events of that day aside, here's where things changed for me: mods. As uncovered from my research on the available community-endorsed mods for the 4XXs, there were quite a few to be named—one being the removal of the cloth filter on the inside of the grille. Did this, and quite literally received instant soundstage/separation improvement, and I can reliably confirm this after an a/b with one side removed and one stock. Next up was sorbothane strips on the magnets, and without getting into too much detail, frequency separation felt cleared up a bit, overall more focused/less crowded. Mids had a bit more presence too, I noticed, but remained somewhat shallow (but that was more a symptom of its EQ by that point). I have performed various mods since all of this, but the point is that we did one more comparison with my friend's 6XXs when I'd finally completed all those mods three weeks ago. We EQ'd all day long because we both, at this point, were partial to the modded 4XXs. When I wrote that review, he headed back off for home and I felt inclined to boast about these cans since I'd seen a lot of negative comparison of it to the 6XXs—wanted to give my two cents but was too lazy to give any real reasons at that point... just wanted to listen to music with them, honestly, and not write up a massive paragraph on why I gave it 5 stars. Tl;dr, I realize my above review in its original form was both shitty and hasty, and I provided no actual basis for why I found them to be superior. Out of the box, the 4XXs are definitely inferior to the 6XXs which retain incredible value and do not need a dedicated amp/dac to be excellent. With an amp/dac + mods, however, I (and my friend who brought his 6XXs) did genuinely feel as if the 4XXs were superior overall—though there are things that I think the 6XXs will always be unbeatable at.
(Edited)
jelly-bowl
52
Oct 15, 2019
SeqqyThank you for the response, it cleared things up a lot. I’m interested in nodding my HE-4XX’ but don’t want to cut my own metal grilles for the sides if I don’t have to. How did you remove the fine mesh filter that came with the phones, and is is very involved to the point that it’s better to just find my own metal grille material to cut out for replacement? Also, being new to planars, do you have any links in regards of sorbothane or tell me more about it? For $130 these are great phones and I’m willing to tinker a bit with them as I feel it’s justifiable. I just joined the SendyAudio Aiva drop as they are so well regarded, and hope to keep those stock but will definitely review those when I get the chance. I’ve so far neglected reviewing the HE-4XX and HD6XX’. The 6XX I love, and I love the 4XX as well especially after they’ve broken in a fair bit. At first they were harsh in ways and overbearing, but playing a bit loud for 6 hours was enough to make them sound sweet and expand the soundstage even more. I no doubt enjoy the bass more on the 4XX and find it to be more linear than the 6XX in the lower range, but the mid-range is almost not a competition for the HD6XX’ and easily takes the cake for me. I’ve taken the grilles off as well and still felt the same way, even the better soundstage with no grilles didn’t change the mids enough to really impress me. Don’t get me wrong, the 4XX’ have a great sound altogether but if we’re secluding mids and high, for me the Sennheiser’s take the floor. Now, that obviously doesn’t mean that it’s just an improvement on the lows, of course between the soundstage and the field of view in imaging, the 4XX’ have something going for them that exciting, especially for Pink Floyd 🤤. Highs, which I almost neglected to mention are definitely not as impressive on the planars, but they aren’t horrible either, they get a passing grade and go well with the overall sound signature of the HE-4XX’. My conclusion personally is that, it would be stupid to write off one or the other if you can afford both, and if you can only afford the HE-4XX right now for the $130, we don’t know how long it’ll stay that price, but the 6XX are consistently going for $220. So get The HE-4XX to enjoy them for most things, and then when you can, get the HD6XX to enjoy the rest. Now, I wouldn’t say the two headphones alone are representatives of the multitude of notable sound signatures that exist out there, but for the average entry-level enthusiast they are very complimentary. I spoil myself with a hardware setup that is probably overkill (especially the DAC) for any of the aforementioned headphones other than probably the Sendy Aivas that I should have when they ship out. I use a Schiit Mjolnir 2 headphone amplifier with stock tubes (I plan on rolling in the near future) and the matching Schiit Gungnir with the Multibit upgrade, which I am a huge believer in since hearing how the entry-level Schiit ladder DACs beat out my favorite and much more expensive Delta-Sigma setup that I use as a reference. I run coaxial from my PC using WASAPI drivers from Qobuz and otherwise Tidal or local lossless audio. I may get a Schiit Eitr coaxial output device, not because I’m a Schiit fanboy but I’ve looked into reviews for multiple other coaxial output devices and a great sum of people getting the eitr coming from something else claim that other devices created issues and the eitr was superior. If only they were more affordable... Anyways, that’s my setup for reference, I haven’t powered the planars off of my PC’s integrated amp/DAC because that would just be silly as nobody with planars aren’t going to at least get a cheap amp/DAC that’s sufficient to not distort. Otherwise, it would make more sense to get sensitive dynamics instead. I am spoling my Senns because I use the 4.4mm pentacomm that came with my 660S’ with an adapter to XLR on the 6XX and a Sennheiser CH650S balanced cable for the 660S’, so that’s why I mentioned not having tried balanced and likely wanting to get the upgrade cable, since I’m comparing balanced Senns to single-ended Hifimans. I’m not sure if balanced itself will make too significant of a difference, and l’m still not sure if I should associate the difference I hear with balanced output on having 4x the power headroom with the balanced output on my Mjolnir or the fundamental benefit of outputting balances itself.
Seqqy
11
Oct 16, 2019
jelly-bowlOf course! I’m happy to help. With the grilles of the HE-4XXs, I wasn’t too keen on cutting out custom mesh for them either—although I did certainly try, and yeah. The custom grilles I was carving out from a mesh tray were turning out disastrously midway through since I didn’t have the correct tools to be taking on that task. What I ended up doing instead was taking the stock grilles off the headphones before removing the fine cloth dust filter on the insides of them (which is glued on, and you can just rip them off if you’re okay with that). I’ll be honest, this was not the biggest difference-maker in my HE-4XX experience here… I did notice a slight bump in soundstage and overall presence, but you’d be fine just leaving the cloth on in all honesty. Up to you whether or not you’d care enough to, though I personally think the effect was a positive one, if any. As for sorbothane, it is an industrial shock absorbing/sound dampening rubber often used to minimize acoustic disturbances made by loud machines/mechanical parts. This was not my idea originally as I was inspired by someone else (a user named MG74) on the Talk section of Drop when I first bought the 4XXs—you can read his experience with this modification here if you’d care, and you can ctrl + f “sorbothane” on the page to find the appropriate post (https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-hifiman-he4xx-planar-magnetic-headphones/talk/2152331). I cut out thin strips of the sorbothane that would lay over the individual magnets, and I used this sheet from Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Isolate-Sorbothane-Acoustic-Vibration-Damping/dp/B0084EXBFA/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=sorbothane&qid=1571184873&s=hi&sr=1-5) for this task. Doing a simultaneous a/b test with sorbothane stuck on the right, and with the stock, exposed magnets on the left, I could hear an audible difference that was, again, positive as a result of the sorbothane; separation between frequencies definitely felt cleaner (less muddy, that is), and overall provided more definition to instruments in my experience. It’s a bit hard to explain this difference exactly as I noticed it, but it was actually quite a pleasant improvement—someone else (most likely on the same thread) said that doing this exact modification with sorbothane was akin to what Audeze does with their equipment via fazors, e.g. guiding the soundwaves to your ears with greater precision. Here’s a couple pictures I took both before and after the mods, don’t mind my Adidas shorts in the bottom one.
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If you do decide to try this out, you’ll just need some simple scissors to cut the strips out and may benefit from a template if you want some better consistency in the cuts (I decided to cut out some prettier strips later on to minimize the chance of acoustic discrepancies between left and right ears). Be mindful of the little wires you see on the inside, however, as they are quite thin and delicate, but should ultimately be fine as long as they’re not yanked on. One of the other mods I’d not previously mentioned was in the form of the ever-famous ZMF Ori Perforated Lambskins—and oh my god they are truly a thing of beauty when on your ears. While the relatively heavy clamping force of the 4XXs’ is still evident at first, the luxurious memory foam and lambskin leather of the Ori is a big improvement over the stock Focus A pads installed on these cans. The Focus As, while better than their reputation would lead you to believe, definitely got a bit scratchy for me sometimes, and the foam in them was… well, not memory foam. I can’t blame HiFiMan for this as these things are an absolute steal for planars/mid-fi phones in general. Regardless, the ZMFs could be considered a bit of a fringe mod for a pair with a $180 (currently $130) price tag, since they themselves cost $60(!). However, for their comfort alone—and for how much I love my 4XXs—I could justify it in my mind just to give these things a proper treatment (and you can check the Oris right here: https://www.zmfheadphones.com/pads-and-cables/ori-pads). I chose the perforated pads since they are said to be the most acoustically neutral (as opposed to the non-perforated leathers, since they are purported to accentuate low presence, but drown out mids and highs as a side effect), and I was very happy with them upon installation. Highs did seem to range into what I interpreted as mild—but not terrible—sibilance after this, but EQ is something that is fortunately available to us. With cost and potential sound signature changes considered (and if you decide to install your own pads), you will need to grab these grossly overpriced plastic rings (https://store.hifiman.com/index.php/earpad-mounting-rings.html) from HiFiMan’s website as the rings on the stock pads cannot be removed without ripping them off/destroying the stock pads themselves, essentially. It’s unfortunate, but I gave HiFiMan that $10 anyway—now here’s a picture with the absolutely lovely ZMF pads on.
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Sidenote: Those mounting brackets are so goddamn difficult to install that you’ll feel like you’re gonna break something, so if you notice the very conspicuous bottle of superglue in the image, you now know why. While others seemed not to have much trouble snapping those rings in with the pad mounting clips of the headphones themselves, I had an absolute hell of a time doing anything with them and, after a literal hour of wrestling with the first pad, I quite literally just said “f**k it” out of utter frustration and (shamefully) superglued them flush with the headphones. In essence, the rings I purchased from HiFiMan were a waste of $10… but I knew I didn’t plan on swapping the Oris out, so don’t judge me too hard for my crimes against humanity if you can help it. So all the mods I’ve mentioned so far cost me real money, right? Yet funnily enough, the one modification I actually found to be the most impactful was… EQ. Honest to god. You’ll find many individuals with their own suggested EQ profiles online, but I personally never found any of those that really changed the signature of the 4XXs in a way that I found objectively “positive.” However, this was only until I discovered the work of an acoustics engineer known as oratory1990 on Reddit, whose end goal was to tweak an extensive list of headphones as close as he could to hit Harman (as in harman/kardon) AE/OE target responses. I strongly encourage you to view his FAQ page (https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/9o2f5n/psa_oratory1990s_list_of_eq_presets/) and afterwards view the list of headphones he’s tuned thus far (https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index). You will of course need EqualizerAPO and Peace GUI if you decide to do this, but it would be interesting if you were to try EQ on both the 4XXs and 6XXs! No shame if you don't end up enjoying one or the other. Alright, now that I’m done typing all of that (phew!), I’d like to say that my adventures in mid-fi have indeed been quite fun. For me, I believe that it’s up to your own wallet as to whether or not you’d like to buy multiple cans in the mid-fi range (HD-6XXs, HD-58Xs, HE-4XXs, etc.) together—either way you shake it, all of these choices will be excellent purchases, but I’d go on to say that none of those aforementioned pairs will vary so greatly in quality that you’ll wish you’d purchased one over the other. At this point, if I were to buy another pair of headphones, I’d be venturing into the $500+ range—and even then, the improvements made over mid-fi pairs would assumedly be far more subjective over what moving from standard, consumer-grade IEMs and headsets to mid-fi options would be. Still, it’s just as much a necessity as it is a hobby for folks like us, and all purchases are good purchases when we’re simply having fun with them. I hope this answered your questions, and I’d be more than happy to answer any others you might have down the road! P.S., Funny you mention Pink Floyd w/ the HE-4XXs, because I’ve been binge listening to them on these nonstop lately, and oh my god my ears have never heard sweeter sounds! Like I’m sure you’d agree, the 4XXs truly capture the emotion, energy and weight of Pink’s songs like nothing else I've had the privilege of using. —Seqqy
(Edited)
jelly-bowl
52
Oct 16, 2019
SeqqyThanks for the response, it’s been VERY helpful! I forgot if I mentioned, but my dad heard the HE-4XX’ and loved them so much as a primary listener, he wants me to sell them to him alongside the Schiit Jotunheim Multibit that I had before the Mjolnir. The Jotunheim being the device that got me into Schiit products and convinced me that their Multibit ladder DAC’s are fantastic. I’m gonna convince my dad to remove the fiber mesh in the stock grilles and use some box cutters to cleanly cut some sorbothane for the magnet rears. Does the sorbothane you linked have an adhesive pre-applied, otherwise what did you use? Also, did you do anything to make removing the fiber mesh easier? Such as soaking the grilles or anything of the sort? Was the end result clean on the outside, or did it leave any undesirable imperfections? The deal I made with dad is covering the SendyAudio Aiva planars that are dropping now. I’ve of course joined that drop like I previously mentioned and can’t wait to receive my pair! Worst case scenario, I still like The HE-4XX for other things, but at that point I’d just hold off so I can get Sundaras, old stock 500’s or save up for one of the big boys like the HE-6’. Hopefully the Mjolnir is sufficient for the HE-6’... I’m more than willing to save up for something expensive as long as I’m genuinely getting what I want, and that’s why I’ve experimented with the HE-4XX to get a taste of planar and what kind of potential I can expect from upper mid-fi and high-end products that utilize improved design. I don’t have my eyes set on the $4,000 Utopia’s, as for an overwhelming amount of what I listen to they don’t have the sound I want although they are phenomenal. That’s also how I speculate the Aivas to be, but by review they seem to cover my tastes a bit better than the Utopia’s, and even if they only blow my mind for 25% of what I listen to or greater then they are a worthy investment, especially for $500. If it takes 4 different cans to have primary listeners that cover all of my tastes perfectly, even if the average cost is $1,000 per pair, that’s way ahead of the $60,000+ I’d have spent on Focal Grand Scala Utopia speakers, without accounting for all of the necessary hardware. Those are a one-size fits all for my ears that I am so... unsatisfied with having heard, as they have made me way more critical with everything I listen to and I have the Audiophile bug worse than ever since I’ve heard them. I swore the day that I heard those speakers, that one day I’ll own a pair. I’m 17 and got into HiFi early, I’m interested in the engineering side of the hobby and hope to make a career/business out of it. I find it funny when a friend of mine will spend the extra money it takes on a new car or used in warranty and calls it justifiable when they don’t have their own property or other assets and it makes it hard for them to get a mortgage, when they act like it’s unjustifiable to spend what they think is “lots” of money on audio, which you not only lose significantly less on (especially in used markets) but lasts significantly longer and can (in my case) be considered an investment into the future if it influences a passion to become more than just a hobby. I’m just venting, sorry for that. Anyways, thanks again! I’ll make sure that the help you have provided is put to good use!
Seqqy
11
Oct 17, 2019
jelly-bowlOh, that's so great that your dad enjoys them! And yes, the sorbothane I linked should have adhesive on it as is. The fiber mesh just rips clean off, and you don't need to soak the grilles or anything in order to take it off. There were no imperfections left from removing the fiber from the insides of the grille; you might feel the leftover adhesive from the cloth on the insides and a few stray fibers clinging to it, but you can certainly clean them off/use some steel wool and water to rub the residual stickiness off. You most certainly have far more funds to devote to audio than I, so I'm glad you've had the room to try new equipment out as much as you seem to be. As long as the hobby is worth it to you, no reason you can't go as wild with it as your friend does with his cars, lol. If you end up having any other questions/needing anything else, please contact me through my secondary email at lastcall516@gmail.com and I'll send out my info for any more convenient platforms (such as Discord, Telegram, etc.). I'll check for anything tomorrow and Saturday if you decide to drop in! —Seqqy
depal345
0
Aug 28, 2020
SeqqyI could just be blind lol, but did you mention what modifications you did to the 4xx in your review? If not, what did you do?
Seqqy
11
Aug 28, 2020
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