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Showing 1 of 111 conversations about:
Francisco
213
Jan 8, 2018
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It's rolling downhill now - the number is actually going backwards - cancellations? LMAO!
Amnesia1187
544
Jan 9, 2018
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FranciscoI'm sure Taro and Camping are eating away at it. I wasn't sold on the base set, but I'll be bummed if the mods don't happen >_<.
crazycravings
48
Jan 9, 2018
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NomosDon't like it, don't buy it. Personally I'm waiting till the end of the month to get in on Camping, but this looks like a good one too. Too bad my wallet will only stretch so far
construed
16
Jan 9, 2018
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FranciscoI really do like the colors, if this doesn't make MOQ I'm probably going to order GMK Dolch at retail price for $180 :/
Vigrith
4081
Jan 10, 2018
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NomosAt 250/$139 this set is would be considered a success and reasonably priced anywhere else that isn't Massdrop - there is always a big influx of people that join the last (couple) day(s) so if people weren't worried and jumping ship this wouldn't look nearly as bad as it is. Additionally, 2077 was a pretty big success in my opinion; Glimy is 100% new to this, the set was poorly designed, voted for by people who aren't even a part of the keyboard community and yet it still handily met MOQ. Obviously you're not very aware of how numbers go with GBs held outside of Massdrop.
You're commending people for "sobering up and ditching this trainwreck" when there is absolutely no reason to cancel orders - IF MOQ isn't met at all you're being refunded by MD regardless, and if it IS going to be met and you want to drop out regardless because the price is too high (as lower tiers won't be unlocked) which is totally understandable then just cancel at the very end (or as late as you can).
You're giving people bad advice and commending pointless practice which is why I responded.
You're commending people for "sobering up and ditching this trainwreck" when there is absolutely no reason to cancel orders - IF MOQ isn't met at all you're being refunded by MD regardless, and if it IS going to be met and you want to drop out regardless because the price is too high (as lower tiers won't be unlocked) which is totally understandable then just cancel at the very end (or as late as you can).
You're giving people bad advice and commending pointless practice which is why I responded.
Nomos
1068
Jan 13, 2018
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VigrithYou are making too much assumptions regarding me or what group buys outside of massdrop I am part of. For what is worth I am well aware of the king of success/difficulties group buys are facing outside massdrop. Since we are having this conversation on massdrop about an active group buy that is taking place on massdrop, it's safe to say that most people would judge the success of this drop in comparison with previous massdrop group buys.
I am not giving people bad advice by any means, I am just stating that this drop is kind of a fail and the numbers speak for themselves. You are getting too worked up over nothing in my opinion.
I am not giving people bad advice by any means, I am just stating that this drop is kind of a fail and the numbers speak for themselves. You are getting too worked up over nothing in my opinion.
ChuckDee
1906
Jan 13, 2018
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NomosI didn't see anything that you are up in arms about in @Vigrith 's response. It's in a bad time of year to have a GB... I'd be looking seriously at it if it wasn't right after Christmas. But that's just timing. The actual set is reasonably priced, and very nicely done, as all of @livingspeedbump 's designs are. That's nothing to do with being a 'train wreck'.
Vigrith
4081
Jan 17, 2018
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NomosI thought I replied to this.
I stand by every assumption I've made and I'm absolutely certain I'm right. You didn't say the drop is "kind of a fail" with the tameness you now are fronting, you spoke with disdain by calling it a trainwreck in a demeaning tone and now you're backpeddaling. Have some decency and self respect, if you're going to say stuff without properly evaluating the situation because you think you're in the right then don't get defensive when I call you out.
It's categorically shit advice and you ARE misleading people that take the time to read your tasteless comment. Again, promoting people dropping out is not helping anyone. You don't have to like the set, you can even say the set sucks (though that's a pretty dumb way to voice an opinion) but what you should never do and what I have a problem with is incentivising people to drop out early for absolutely no reason.
I stand by every assumption I've made and I'm absolutely certain I'm right. You didn't say the drop is "kind of a fail" with the tameness you now are fronting, you spoke with disdain by calling it a trainwreck in a demeaning tone and now you're backpeddaling. Have some decency and self respect, if you're going to say stuff without properly evaluating the situation because you think you're in the right then don't get defensive when I call you out.
It's categorically shit advice and you ARE misleading people that take the time to read your tasteless comment. Again, promoting people dropping out is not helping anyone. You don't have to like the set, you can even say the set sucks (though that's a pretty dumb way to voice an opinion) but what you should never do and what I have a problem with is incentivising people to drop out early for absolutely no reason.
Nomos
1068
Jan 18, 2018
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VigrithPeople like you (that put on a pedestal every trainwreck of a set only because it is sold on massdrop) are the plague that keeps massdrop from offering really nice sets.
After your most recent comment, I am sure that the only thing us customers are able to do in order to make things work in our interest is to boycott drops like this one by not taking part in them. After all, we are referring to a drop where the creator supplied color inaccurate renderings and (maybe?) hasn't even struggled to have them replaced. I am obviously in the right to judge everything, there's no room for hard feelings here or some kind of proof that I should present, in order to be entitled to hold an opinion. I am a customer that doesn't like and want this product, it's as simple as that.
"just look up GMK dolch pictures and you should get a very good idea of how it looks" :)
"just look up GMK dolch pictures and you should get a very good idea of how it looks" :)
Amnesia1187
544
Jan 21, 2018
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VigrithTBH. Just because you want something to succeed, doesn’t make it any less a trainwreck.
You can can assign blame anywhere you want to, but I never thought I’d see anther GMK set miss moq on massdrop. Maybe this does just mean we have hit saturation, maybe it just launched at a bad time, but it is foolish to not even consider tha people just don’t like the way it looks.
You are assuming people are dropping out because they don’t think it will hit moq, but you need to remember, almost every other GMK drop on MD has hit like $100 for a base kit, so it’s entirelt possible when people saw the price wouldn’t drop they ditched because 140 or 160 were BOTH out of budget.
I think 1 problem is the renders dont do the set justice. On half my displays (the calibrated ones) i can hardly tell there is any green at all. But having seen 3c in person, I know that isn’t the case.
Either way though, you need to consider, that perhaps this drop is failing simply because people dont want it. Maybe there just isn’t enough interest in another dolch variant. I already have like 4 different versions of dolch myself.
My my point is just, I am one of those people who buys almost every GMK set. I even frequently get multiples. I never even considered buying this set. Between the renders and the compatibility and the timing and it being another dolch set, I just wasn’t interested. I suspect I’m not alone, and I suspect ALL of this is why the drop didn’t do as well as others.
You can can assign blame anywhere you want to, but I never thought I’d see anther GMK set miss moq on massdrop. Maybe this does just mean we have hit saturation, maybe it just launched at a bad time, but it is foolish to not even consider tha people just don’t like the way it looks.
You are assuming people are dropping out because they don’t think it will hit moq, but you need to remember, almost every other GMK drop on MD has hit like $100 for a base kit, so it’s entirelt possible when people saw the price wouldn’t drop they ditched because 140 or 160 were BOTH out of budget.
I think 1 problem is the renders dont do the set justice. On half my displays (the calibrated ones) i can hardly tell there is any green at all. But having seen 3c in person, I know that isn’t the case.
Either way though, you need to consider, that perhaps this drop is failing simply because people dont want it. Maybe there just isn’t enough interest in another dolch variant. I already have like 4 different versions of dolch myself.
My my point is just, I am one of those people who buys almost every GMK set. I even frequently get multiples. I never even considered buying this set. Between the renders and the compatibility and the timing and it being another dolch set, I just wasn’t interested. I suspect I’m not alone, and I suspect ALL of this is why the drop didn’t do as well as others.
Vigrith
4081
Jan 21, 2018
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Amnesia1187I assigned blame, but not exclusively, to people dropping out - I stand by what I said. I never argued in favour of this being an amazing set that would otherwise do insanely well so I'm not quite sure why you are bringing up all those points, albeit valid. I agree, dolch may be overdone, bad timing, fairly pricey, etc. Absolutely.
It is however inarguable that if people had not been dropping out (and for the better part, for no valid reason other than being worried unnecessarily) the numbers would be looking much better. That alongside the fact that there is zero real benefit to actually cancelling your order a month before the end of the drop is all I've defended here. I do like the set, and it obviously is a good set but whether or not I like it is irrelevant.
It is however inarguable that if people had not been dropping out (and for the better part, for no valid reason other than being worried unnecessarily) the numbers would be looking much better. That alongside the fact that there is zero real benefit to actually cancelling your order a month before the end of the drop is all I've defended here. I do like the set, and it obviously is a good set but whether or not I like it is irrelevant.
Amnesia1187
544
Jan 21, 2018
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VigrithYou are still not getting my point.
If someone only plans to buy something if it hits 1000 moq, and it's not even at 100 orders, there is no reason to leave the order open. There have been many times where I told myself I could just cancel later only to forget and end up buying things I don't want. So if based on the available information I can tell I will never maintain my order, why would I keep in in until the end. I feel like it would be worse if we hit moq, and then all the people who can only pay the lower price dropped hours before the end and we went back under moq.
The only reason it makes sense to leave your order in after you know you want to cancel it is if you have some weird need to order things on accident? Like "I was gonna cancel it and I forgot... oh well". It's not arguable that the numbers would look better if people hadn't dropped out in the exact same way it's not arguable that the numbers would be better if more people actually wanted to buy the set.
You are assuming people changed their minds specifically because of the lack of moq. What if they decided they wanted Taro or Camping or Blue on Black instead of this? So they cancelled their order and got something else? What if they decided they just didn't want it? What if they sold the keyboard they wanted? What if they lost their job? What if they decided to spend the money on their kids?
People leave drops for all sorts of reasons and they are entitled to. If a drop can't survive that, it probably isn't gonna make it regardless.
If someone only plans to buy something if it hits 1000 moq, and it's not even at 100 orders, there is no reason to leave the order open. There have been many times where I told myself I could just cancel later only to forget and end up buying things I don't want. So if based on the available information I can tell I will never maintain my order, why would I keep in in until the end. I feel like it would be worse if we hit moq, and then all the people who can only pay the lower price dropped hours before the end and we went back under moq.
The only reason it makes sense to leave your order in after you know you want to cancel it is if you have some weird need to order things on accident? Like "I was gonna cancel it and I forgot... oh well". It's not arguable that the numbers would look better if people hadn't dropped out in the exact same way it's not arguable that the numbers would be better if more people actually wanted to buy the set.
You are assuming people changed their minds specifically because of the lack of moq. What if they decided they wanted Taro or Camping or Blue on Black instead of this? So they cancelled their order and got something else? What if they decided they just didn't want it? What if they sold the keyboard they wanted? What if they lost their job? What if they decided to spend the money on their kids?
People leave drops for all sorts of reasons and they are entitled to. If a drop can't survive that, it probably isn't gonna make it regardless.
Vigrith
4081
Jan 21, 2018
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Amnesia1187I got your point from the get go. I have also touched on the subject of people that would only join at 1k MOQ and deemed it a reasonable reason to cancel (one of few). If people don't remember to cancel that's on them, doesn't invalidate my point in any way and my approach to it is still going to wield the best results for the group no matter what. Factual.
As said, I agree with the reasons for cancelling being thousandfold, I'm not even arguing against what you're stating, advising people to not join because "it's a trainwreck" or that people should drop out SPECIFICALLY because MOQ is never going to be hit is ridiculous and uncalled for. That remains.
As said, I agree with the reasons for cancelling being thousandfold, I'm not even arguing against what you're stating, advising people to not join because "it's a trainwreck" or that people should drop out SPECIFICALLY because MOQ is never going to be hit is ridiculous and uncalled for. That remains.
Francisco
213
Jan 21, 2018
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Vigrith>>> "It is however inarguable that if people had not been dropping out ... the numbers would be looking much better."
You're wrong - this was never going to "look much better". Only around 5 - 10 people dropped out - at one point it went down from 67'ish to 62'ish.
You're wrong - this was never going to "look much better". Only around 5 - 10 people dropped out - at one point it went down from 67'ish to 62'ish.
Vigrith
4081
Jan 21, 2018
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FranciscoDo you reside in the drop page? How many times did it go from 67 ish to 62 ish? Every time I look the number's different so it's pretty easy to infer that the numbers would be looking better if people just committed. I'm absolutely not wrong in that regard and am willing to continue arguing if we really want to keep the circus going. Maybe it would be 75, maybe 90, maybe 150. We don't know without Massdrop providing some insight into it, so I could potentially concede my usage of "much" when it comes to semantics.
Francisco
213
Jan 21, 2018
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Vigrith>>> " How many times did it go from 67 ish to 62 ish? "
Once. Then it occasionally fluctuated up/down by 1 most of the time.
Your "inarguable" argument is busted and you've been proven wrong.
It's a "trainwreck" - get over it!
Vigrith
4081
Jan 21, 2018
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FranciscoIt's still inarguable. According to the graphs Dvorcol posts it has fluctuated a bunch as you said, say it'd be at like 80 now just from people not cancelling, the nearer it gets to meeting MOQ the more people join (outside of those who have joined/cancelled) - more numbers attract buyers because the drop looks more appealing, it has been seen plenty of times with other drops both here and throughout the other communities.
There's nothing to get over - my main argument here is first and foremost that the other dude's advice/incestivising people to drop out is flawed, uncalled for, biased and rude; the fact you're trying to rile people up to start with (as this is your thread to begin with) is pretty pathetic in and of itself but it doesn't bother me and is of very little concern compared to that. I have time though, you seem to be getting a little annoyed (as per your profile description, too) so I'm happy to continue to entertain a pointless discussion that I've already won by default.
There's nothing to get over - my main argument here is first and foremost that the other dude's advice/incestivising people to drop out is flawed, uncalled for, biased and rude; the fact you're trying to rile people up to start with (as this is your thread to begin with) is pretty pathetic in and of itself but it doesn't bother me and is of very little concern compared to that. I have time though, you seem to be getting a little annoyed (as per your profile description, too) so I'm happy to continue to entertain a pointless discussion that I've already won by default.
Vigrith
4081
Jan 21, 2018
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NomosOh man I forgot to reply to you again, that's weird.
You're probably American, you're here exercising your hard earned, often over-touted freedom of speech; you are allowed to provide as much terrible advice as I am allowed to call you out on it; your only function as a customer is to vote your money, by buying in or not. Anything past that is gravy and completely irrelevant to the people/business that's attempting to sell you a product. The creator of this set has ran several ones prior to this that have been a success (even by your "MD standards"); the person providing the renders is not only far more qualified than yourself but also has a bunch of sets that he has designed/rendered under his belt. Do I agree it's too brown to be regular dolch? Yes. Do I think MD would've amended the situation if that were the case? Yes. Who knows, though.
I'm not putting anything up on a pedestal, the vast majority of my sets are bought outside of MD due to the fact I'm situated outside of the USA, your rudeness and disdain still speaks volumes. I'm not defending anyone nor am I defending the product, I feel there's no reason to, I'm simply playing devil's advocate (rightfully) and by association attacking you.
You're probably American, you're here exercising your hard earned, often over-touted freedom of speech; you are allowed to provide as much terrible advice as I am allowed to call you out on it; your only function as a customer is to vote your money, by buying in or not. Anything past that is gravy and completely irrelevant to the people/business that's attempting to sell you a product. The creator of this set has ran several ones prior to this that have been a success (even by your "MD standards"); the person providing the renders is not only far more qualified than yourself but also has a bunch of sets that he has designed/rendered under his belt. Do I agree it's too brown to be regular dolch? Yes. Do I think MD would've amended the situation if that were the case? Yes. Who knows, though.
I'm not putting anything up on a pedestal, the vast majority of my sets are bought outside of MD due to the fact I'm situated outside of the USA, your rudeness and disdain still speaks volumes. I'm not defending anyone nor am I defending the product, I feel there's no reason to, I'm simply playing devil's advocate (rightfully) and by association attacking you.
Francisco
213
Jan 22, 2018
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Vigrith>>> "It's still inarguable ...
>>> "I've already won by default... "
>>> "I'm absolutely not wrong... "
>>> "I'm absolutely certain I'm right "
The narcissist is never, ever wrong, and he likes to present “proof” that he is correct. The narcissist cannot accept responsibility for making a mistake and he is an expert at diverting the blame to others .
Have you Vigr'd it out yet? Get some help.
The narcissist is never, ever wrong, and he likes to present “proof” that he is correct. The narcissist cannot accept responsibility for making a mistake and he is an expert at diverting the blame to others .
Have you Vigr'd it out yet? Get some help.
Vigrith
4081
Jan 22, 2018
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FranciscoThere was no mistake made and stating I'm right does not make me less so. I'm occasionally wrong, just not here, I even conceded that I shouldn't have said the numbers would be up "much" higher. I'm nothing if not flexible when there's reason to be. When there isn't, I'm not. There was no proof provided by me, it's categorical.
Amnesia1187
544
Jan 22, 2018
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Vigrithwhat if it was just 1 person ordering and cancelling over and over again. You are making a TON of assumptions.
You are not right simply because you believe yourself to be.
Could there being 80 orders have helped increase the sales numbers further? Sure, but that doesn’t mean it would have. Correlation is NOT causation.
You are ignoring things like layout compatibility and taste. You seem to have this idea that there are hordes of people just itching to order this set if only it were at moq. You need to at least consider that while you may be a fan of the set, there may just not be much interest. There may just not be 250 people who want to buy it. They could lower moq to 50, and sure they would get more sales, but it’s a massive assumption to think that if they suddenly were making it at 50 moq for the same price there are 200 people who would immediately order.
It also doesnt help that there was no hype generated beforehand.
You are not right simply because you believe yourself to be.
Could there being 80 orders have helped increase the sales numbers further? Sure, but that doesn’t mean it would have. Correlation is NOT causation.
You are ignoring things like layout compatibility and taste. You seem to have this idea that there are hordes of people just itching to order this set if only it were at moq. You need to at least consider that while you may be a fan of the set, there may just not be much interest. There may just not be 250 people who want to buy it. They could lower moq to 50, and sure they would get more sales, but it’s a massive assumption to think that if they suddenly were making it at 50 moq for the same price there are 200 people who would immediately order.
It also doesnt help that there was no hype generated beforehand.
Nomos
1068
Jan 23, 2018
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Vigrith>> You're probably American, you're here exercising your hard earned, often over-touted freedom of speech;
That's kind of funny in a sad way. Sorry to dissapoint you, but I am from Europe. Do you want me to provide some utility bill to prove it? Maybe also some receipts of the group buys outside MD I am part off?
>> The creator of this set has ran several ones prior to this that have been a success How is this relevant in any way?
>> the person providing the renders is not only far more qualified than yourself but also has a bunch of sets that he has designed/rendered under his belt. Suppose I am some kind of noob, haha, but I am a noob with pro grade screens calibrated with pro grade dedicated tools. Actually, one doesn't even need a large gamut and calibrated screen, to see how off the renderings are.
>> The creator of this set has ran several ones prior to this that have been a success How is this relevant in any way?
>> the person providing the renders is not only far more qualified than yourself but also has a bunch of sets that he has designed/rendered under his belt. Suppose I am some kind of noob, haha, but I am a noob with pro grade screens calibrated with pro grade dedicated tools. Actually, one doesn't even need a large gamut and calibrated screen, to see how off the renderings are.
dvorcol
5375
Keyboard Club Member
Jan 23, 2018
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NomosI agree regarding the colors. The alphas in Goldworms' renders are much more representative:
Amnesia1187
544
Jan 24, 2018
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dvorcolI'm not sure I think goldworms render is better, at least not overall, but the colors are easier to differentiate.
I've been thinking about it a lot and I suspect a big part of the issue is the white background crushing our eyes ability to see the light colors. I'm actually kinda curious why they are all rendered on white, its one of the hardest ways to actually judge what something looks like because it's not something that happens in real life, especially with a subtle/light color on dark background like these caps. I bet on a more natural or black or pretty much anything not so bright, I bet we could better pick out the green.
I've been thinking about it a lot and I suspect a big part of the issue is the white background crushing our eyes ability to see the light colors. I'm actually kinda curious why they are all rendered on white, its one of the hardest ways to actually judge what something looks like because it's not something that happens in real life, especially with a subtle/light color on dark background like these caps. I bet on a more natural or black or pretty much anything not so bright, I bet we could better pick out the green.
dvorcol
5375
Keyboard Club Member
Jan 24, 2018
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Amnesia1187The alphas in Goldworms' renders match GMK's RGB code for CC much better. To me the alphas look too brown in Zambumon's renders. Both renders are done on white backgrounds.
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