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Showing 1 of 553 conversations about:
Kevin
5434
Outreach
Feb 24, 2020
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MechEng
345
Feb 25, 2020
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KevinIf your guy flies out he is not coming back for 14 days upon leaving China. Sounds like a bad idea.
euphxenos
331
Feb 27, 2020
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KevinI thought the remaining problem was getting final color samples approved by Matt3o. Is there something going on here other than getting the colors finalized? Mailing color samples from China to Italy doesn't sound like something you'd need to fly out and do yourself, so this sounds kind of odd (unless there's something more serious that's not ready). Are there still issues with the molds?
euphxenos
331
Mar 2, 2020
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brneorYes, but they're not sending the person who needs to approve the color samples (Matt3o).
Kevin
5434
Outreach
Mar 2, 2020
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euphxenosAside from getting final color approvals from Matt3o, the actual running of the machines, getting all of the injection temperatures and pressures setup correctly, does take some time. Having someone there adds additional urgency and priority to the process, and is also nice to have our own set of eyes physically present for QC. At the end of the day, we're doing whatever we can to get this thing over the finish line.
Thornkin
236
Mar 10, 2020
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KevinSo this factory is open and will be fine to produce them once approved?
N11_NAr
14
Apr 6, 2020
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KevinI just can not imagine that hard to product mt3 in doubleshot. Did they just make doubleshot (or even tripleshot) for everything back in the old days?
I hope you will re-drop this or other coloway in doubleshot, to take back the investment and compensate much effort you put in, of course in current price, 99$ for a base kit is reasonable.
atari.zero.tv
738
Atari Zero TV
Apr 12, 2020
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N11_NArDrop will own these molds in perpetuity, which is one of the major reasons they're spending so much time and effort to make this right. I fully expect to see all the "favorites" in MT3 at some point: Carbon, Godspeed, Laser, Yuri, Hyperfuse, etc. Some designers don't like Drop, so we may never see some of of them run in MT3, but I'm sure MiTo will run his colorways.
Trust me, there will be MANY sets to choose from. Now that they own the molds and don't need to pay a middle man like GMK or SP for using them, prices will be more reasonable, which may actually drive prices down from the other manufacturers. Maybe not, but who knows. At the very least we should see hopefully see less GMK sets, which means we should see more affordable "pick and choose" kits like what we see with SP. GMK forces people to have to pay a lot to get good coverage because the base kit has to be massive. SP has higher prices and long lead times, but they let you separate alphas, mods, novelties, etc. Also, Drop can choose the MOQ so Norde kits at 40% kits should be a lot more reasonable.
Kevin
5434
Outreach
Apr 20, 2020
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N11_NArMaking a product in double-shot is easy. Making it with extremely tight manufacturing tolerances, and vibrant colors, is very difficult.
@atari.zero.tv seems to have a pretty good crystal ball.
atari.zero.tv
738
Atari Zero TV
Apr 20, 2020
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Kevin@Kevin I wouldn't say I have a crystal ball, but I do have common sense ;)
I'm excited to see some of the color offerings that will come to MT3. With Drop 100% in control I think there will be some room for more interesting things to be done.
TBH I'm totally over GMK. It's a pain in the ass to get a good ortho set from any designers because they just don't care, or just copy+paste the default Planck layout and call it good. Also lately we get jammed in with a really badly designed 40% set that is missing important key sizes in some rows and NO ONE is served by the kit, but yet we have no other choice.
I would love to see a return to more DSA sets, but I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. DSA's uniform sculpt makes it so much easier to fit a keyboard, but I know it's not everyone's cuppa. I believe the new ABS MT3 has a flat profile in one of the rows, R5 maybe? I have it on one of my sets. If that's true... I might want to run a set in all R5 MT3. Definitely something to think about!
chriskin
18
May 4, 2020
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tonyv_73There will definitely be extras, like a LOT of them.
After they ship to those of us that ordered first you will be able to order from the extras as well
washington_irving
69
May 8, 2020
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KevinKevin, thanks for the 5/7 update. For the caps that required adjustment, will there be new samples to review before they go into production to ensure that the proper corrections have been made? Thanks again.
(Edited)
Kevin
5434
Outreach
May 8, 2020
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washington_irvingYes, everything gets checked many times :)
washington_irving
69
May 8, 2020
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KevinGlad to hear it. I also appreciate the quick reply.
forter4
88
May 19, 2020
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atari.zero.tvOblotzky has stated that he fully intends to create Oblivion in the MT3 profile...seriously can't wait for that
spr0k3t
181
Jun 1, 2020
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KevinYou'll want to remove one of those pictures... After doing some zoomification on the base elements of that image on an 85" screen, thems definitely isn't MT3. And the box in the second picture doesn't say anything about Susuwatari on the label and the bar-code is completely different. Wrong pic from the archive files?
Original Size Image:
https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/img_comment/1590645511522.438229447564678594901897-susu2.jpg
Kevin
5434
Outreach
Jun 3, 2020
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spr0k3tThanks, that was an unintentional spoiler of a soon-to-be released basic keycap set..
Theguywhoknowsthings
3
Jun 4, 2020
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KevinI just saw the recent pics in the update... the colors don’t even come close to matching. Not one bit. If those are really the colors being shipped then I’m even more disappointed, especially considering how long we’ve been waiting.
etatauri
329
Jun 5, 2020
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TheguywhoknowsthingsI noticed that too, but I am hoping it is because of the white balance of the photo. When you take a photo of a predominately dark image, the camera will try to compensate and lighten the image. This is what may be happening in those photos. Earlier prototype photos did not look this bright of a grey. Take a look at this photo taken in February: https://cdn.matt3o.com/uploads/2020/02/susuwatari-prototype.jpg . This photo was taken with a light background so I would think this photo is more balanced in terms of exposure. I hope this is more true to what we will be getting, as it is way closer to the original renders. Matt3o says he's pretty happy so I trust his judgement. His tty set was awesome and I do not expect anything less from him. In the meantime, I hope he can take a better picture with a lighter background so we can get a better feel for what the color would actually look like in a more accurate way.
StreakInTheSky
223
Jun 5, 2020
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TheguywhoknowsthingsI mean it’s the dolch colorway with yellowish legends. If you don’t like dolch you probably won’t like this. If you do, then you should. Matt3os photos do seem a bit bright and have a yellowish cast, but compensating for that, looks about right with the renders to me. You never even state what makes them “not even close to match” so no way in knowing what you think is wrong with them.
If Matt3o likes them, then they came out how they were supposed to, he never mentioned anything about base colors being off. If you don’t like them, your expectations were off. Colors change with ambient lighting, if you think they’re too bright, darken up your desk space a little. Too yellowish? let some sunlight in or get cooler desk lighting. But have realistic expectations, real plastic is going to reflect the light and colors around it, so color could still be slightly off from the renders. Also, legends likely won’t pop as much under darker lighting unlike renders where contrast is more easily controllable.
Theguywhoknowsthings
3
Jun 5, 2020
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StreakInTheSkyrenders do not resemble dolch even the slightest... I’m just hoping it’s a really bad photo
deroanth
50
Jun 5, 2020
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StreakInTheSkyI agree with about 99% of what you're saying. If I remember correctly (can't find it atm), Matt3o said the colorway is inspired by the Gruvbox colorscheme. Though that isn't to say it might not be inspired by Dolch as well... Also, I may be incorrect on that, as I'm just going from memory. Regardless, I am so incredibly ready for this set... I can't wait. I always feel sorry for the "it doesn't 100% perfectly match the renders!!!" crowd, as it always sucks to have your expectations smashed in a bad way, but I always hope it'll help them set their expectations correctly next GB they join...
StreakInTheSky
223
Jun 6, 2020
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TheguywhoknowsthingsDid some adjustments to a photo to see if I can get a more neutral color and adjusted the exposure a bunch to get it to match the renders (they were very overexposed). Unfortunately the legends seem to be blown out and there's just too much compression on the source. Blue turned out great, green is a bit yellowish, but that could also be from the data loss, but they were having a lot of trouble color matching that one so might be accurate. The actual alpha color is a bit hard to parse out as it kind of gradients in the photo, but my guess it's somewhere between Q and A.
Threw in dolch and the gruvbox palette for comparison (thanks @deroanth for that info, kinda of remember something like that now that you mention it, but completely forgot). Dolch has slightly lighter alphas and slightly cooler mods, but to say they don't resemble each other is a big stretch. Gruvbox is pretty close to dolch for the base colors with some added syntax colors.
etatauri
329
Jun 6, 2020
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StreakInTheSkyGreat job at trying to adjust those images. Definitely looks better than the original photos. I do agree that it resembles Dolch but I hope that Matt3o can upload some better exposed photos to actually compare fairly. To be honest, I can't be mad at receiving a Hi-profile Dolch set in Colemak. But I did want the original render colors. The legends are hopefully more of a cream color, and the gray definitely needs to be a slightly warmer, browner gray rather than a cold bluish gray.
Kevin
5434
Outreach
Jun 7, 2020
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etatauri@StreakInTheSky Appreciate all of the work that you guys are doing regarding the photos. It goes without saying that photos will never truly reproduce the physical look of something, especially as particular as keycaps. Can't wait to get these into everyone's hands.
I've got a professional photo of an earlier set (about 7 samples runs ago). The colors are mostly the same as the final production set. (You'll notice the 2@ symbol is defective due to incomplete fill during the double-shot process, these are the types of problems that took so darn long to work through).
(Edited)
euphxenos
331
Jun 8, 2020
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KevinTo my eyes, those colors are pretty far off. The alphas are too cool (the renders make them look browner), and the alpha legends are white where the renders are much more yellow. If you'd told me you were making MT3 Dolch with colored mod legends, I would've bought it, so I'm probably going to keep it when it gets here, but I'd be interested in another run that tries to get the Susuwatari colors right. The bigger issue is that if this is the best this manufacturer can do at color matching, then other sets I'd like to see done in doubleshot MT3 just won't be possible.
Kevin
5434
Outreach
Jun 8, 2020
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euphxenosEveryone's obviously entitled to their opinions, I'm going to respectfully bow out of discussing colors because it's circular. Renders will never match the artist's vision, they are an approximation. Renders will never match physical products. Pictures of physical products, will never match the physical products. "Closeness" is in the eye of the beholder and is largely subjective.
At the end of the day, we've evolved our business a lot. Most importantly (afaik- unlike I think any other keycap seller), we have full refunds available. So if they aren't up to your expectations, you're more than welcome to return them. This is an important change to our policies (about 6-8 months ago) and the community mostly used to it yet (and some of our messaging is still legacy).
MechEng
345
Jun 10, 2020
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Kevin
How they look now below, please tell me in different light they look like photo 3/3? If not, something went wrong along the way.
(Edited)
StreakInTheSky
223
Jun 10, 2020
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MechEngI adjusted part of one of Matt3o's photos to match the lighting in the renders here. https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-matt3o-mt3-susuwatari-custom-keycap-set/talk/2639917
@Kevin is understandably tired of discussing colors, probably the last time I will too. But I will add, I predict a bunch of people are going to be disappointed with the alpha legends if they keep this mindset. The creamyness of the color is very likely not going to be super obvious unless you're directly comparing them to a cooler white legend. Even with the renders, the color is different depending on what screen I'm looking at it with. In addition, screens are shining light into your eyes, contrast and color are going to be stronger by nature. You want to see what the caps in the render will more realistically look like? Print out a photo of the renders on semi-gloss photo paper with a color calibrated printer and put it on your desk. Pigments/dyes on a surface is reflected light, most colors are not going to magically pop like they do on renders. Things are going to be drastically different depending on environment, your brain just naturally adjusts. Cameras also adjust, that is why white balance settings exist. As for the photos, most digital cameras outside of some medium format ones can really capture all the minute details of colors. Using a lightbox with a light colored objects is extremely hard to do especially when your trying to capture two things with completely opposite values(dark base, light legends). I know this from personal experience. This is why I think people really need to have realistic expectations. There is so much that makes this set special outside of just the colorway, but people just seem to not even care about that. If some people don't like what I'm saying I hope they do cancel their orders so people who will actually appreciate these caps, even with its flaws, can get them. Honestly the growing obsession with color matching in the community is so annoying(hence this long ass rant) and will tear down other people to express it. People are expecting metal cases to match their plastic keycaps to match the colors of their switches made of completely different plastics (and they want hi-pro cases so you won't even see the switches). I even miss the days when keycaps were hard to get. You actually needed to use effort to get something you want and not just throw money at someone, and when you finally got your caps, even if they weren't perfect, you'd still love them, because you knew you got something special.
@Kevin is understandably tired of discussing colors, probably the last time I will too. But I will add, I predict a bunch of people are going to be disappointed with the alpha legends if they keep this mindset. The creamyness of the color is very likely not going to be super obvious unless you're directly comparing them to a cooler white legend. Even with the renders, the color is different depending on what screen I'm looking at it with. In addition, screens are shining light into your eyes, contrast and color are going to be stronger by nature. You want to see what the caps in the render will more realistically look like? Print out a photo of the renders on semi-gloss photo paper with a color calibrated printer and put it on your desk. Pigments/dyes on a surface is reflected light, most colors are not going to magically pop like they do on renders. Things are going to be drastically different depending on environment, your brain just naturally adjusts. Cameras also adjust, that is why white balance settings exist. As for the photos, most digital cameras outside of some medium format ones can really capture all the minute details of colors. Using a lightbox with a light colored objects is extremely hard to do especially when your trying to capture two things with completely opposite values(dark base, light legends). I know this from personal experience. This is why I think people really need to have realistic expectations. There is so much that makes this set special outside of just the colorway, but people just seem to not even care about that. If some people don't like what I'm saying I hope they do cancel their orders so people who will actually appreciate these caps, even with its flaws, can get them. Honestly the growing obsession with color matching in the community is so annoying(hence this long ass rant) and will tear down other people to express it. People are expecting metal cases to match their plastic keycaps to match the colors of their switches made of completely different plastics (and they want hi-pro cases so you won't even see the switches). I even miss the days when keycaps were hard to get. You actually needed to use effort to get something you want and not just throw money at someone, and when you finally got your caps, even if they weren't perfect, you'd still love them, because you knew you got something special.
etatauri
329
Jun 10, 2020
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StreakInTheSkyWell said. I think this whole discussion happened after the set of 3 photos were published a few days ago in bad light/overexposure and people started freaking out. I will always reserve my judgment and review until I get the product in hand. I know as a photographer it is impossible to match colors on photos the way we see it with our eyes, but for people who don't know this fact, I can understand why they were concerned after those photos were released on 6/1. I don't remember seeing any outrage after the 2/24 photos as it was much closer to the render.
I really appreciate the consistent updates, but I guess it is a double edge sword for the makers. You get a lot of encouragement and excitement, but also a lot of criticism and unreasonable feedback.
etatauri
329
Jun 22, 2020
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washington_irving1 week left according to their ship date. I'm literally checking everyday to see if there is a shipping update.
washington_irving
69
Jun 22, 2020
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etatauriI must have missed that, where did you find that info? Last I saw was from the 6/5 update: "Currently hoping to get this shipped out of the USA warehouse, to you, around 6/20 (assuming no further delays)."
etatauri
329
Jun 22, 2020
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washington_irvingOn the product overview page, and under transactions it says the 28th. I would assume that they would have sent us an update if they had indeed made the 20th ship-out date. I never trusted the 'assuming no further delays' part anyway. :P
washington_irving
69
Jun 22, 2020
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etatauriI would say that skepticism has been fairly earned.
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6/3 Update: Matt3o has a received his set from the production line (not samples anymore!) and has posted about them here: https://matt3o.com/susuwatari-production-prototypes-tldr-they-are-awesome/ I'll have another update to post in the next 24 hours with how things are coming along on our end. 6/5 Update: Base Kits, Blanks, Spacebars, Ortho and Ergodox are complete. Colemak, Monotone and Extras are expected to be completed on 6/10. Things slowed down because the full production of base kits took longer than expected. With manufacturing complete on 6/10, we've scheduled the keycaps to be picked up on 6/13, and then flown to our warehouse in New Jersey. Currently hoping to get this shipped out of the USA warehouse, to you, around 6/20 (assuming no further delays). Everyone has been so incredibly patient, I've lobbied internally and gotten approval to give all participants of the pre-order something special, I'm still firming up the details on exactly what but we'll be sending out an email once everything is finalized. Regarding the dozens of questions about extras... We absolutely will have extras available for sale in the near future, but our primary priority is to get the pre-orders completed, checked, and shipped. Hit the "request" button and you'll be notified when these are on sale again.