Showing 1 of 375 conversations about:
YanboWu
7854
Collaborations
May 17, 2018
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Hey everyone, welcome to the project Mito and I have been cooking ever since Laser launched!
I've hinted at these special colorways during the ALT launch and I was really happy with how these samples turned out. I hope this drop can eventually serve as a template for other special sets - there are so many more possibilities out there.
Thank you again to the community for your support and also to Mito for his ever refreshing designs.
By the way - here are all the caps that would ship with the kit if you choose to purchase it.
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May 17, 2018
Joe405
184
May 18, 2018
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I know this is a special collaboration, but would you consider adding a few more keys to fit "standard" 68 or 61 key layouts, if we 1 day decide to swap or mix/match keys?
May 18, 2018
bball2
35
May 18, 2018
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Agreed! 2x extra R4 keys for the bottom row would be awesome for a lot more compatibility on 60% boards!
May 18, 2018
MiTo
11940
MiTo
May 18, 2018
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No changes/tweaks will take place for the Laser 65% keyset kit that will be available on this drop. The actual and properly designed kits were offered in November/2017 and what's happening right now is a special deal for the ALT 65% keyboard, so the keycaps are designed specifically for it. If we were to start adding keycaps and playing favorites for "this" and "that" layout by adding just "this" keycap, things would get crazy very quickly. I hope you understand!
May 18, 2018
OldCat
2119
May 18, 2018
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makes perfect sense. Thanks!
May 18, 2018
Joe405
184
May 18, 2018
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Fair enough, and it is a pretty sweet deal if we get the price breaks.
May 18, 2018
TekilaShot
490
May 18, 2018
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Thanks you for revealing this BEFORE the end of the Alt keyboard drop. I'm glad you are listening to customers feedbacks. :)
May 18, 2018
kamisamamizu
21
May 18, 2018
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Hey! I love the keyboard. Two questions: Will the keyboard itself go down in price as the same time as the whole package? I already have ordered Laser, so I'm only interested in the board itself. How much will switches be? Because I want some Halos with it.
May 18, 2018
omgjlk
2
May 18, 2018
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Does that mean they're shaped specifically for the ALT keyboard, and wouldn't be suitable to use on another board, like say a Kinesis Freestyle Edge?
May 18, 2018
YanboWu
7854
Collaborations
May 18, 2018
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Hey @kamisamamizu the price drops are only tied to the keycap set quantities. The barebones version will always remain the same price.
@omgjlk yes the keycap set with this drop will be designed for the ALT to keep prices inline. Otherwise things can get pretty crazy and we think Laser deserves it's own full re-release at a later date.
May 18, 2018
OldCat
2119
May 18, 2018
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Laser R2 will be awesome!
May 18, 2018
fer.real
263
May 18, 2018
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Is Laser R2 coming s00n™?
May 18, 2018
Kbdnewbie
60
May 19, 2018
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First off, kudos @MiTo and @YanboWu for bringing this to the multitudes like me that have hounded you for a second chance at Laser. Would love to see another round of accessories when this goes live... USB C mech cables would be awesome to see. (I have one of his custom USB C cables and have found it higher quality than factory ones I've bought.) Also, I'm sure you both know that a novelties kit would sell at least as many as there are buying this board... so why not? Either way, thx again for the second chance and extra nudge I needed to pick up the ALT in addition to the CTRL.
May 19, 2018
erickong
4465
Mech Keys Moderator
May 20, 2018
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production for R1 hasnt even finished. It will be a while before R2 comes
May 20, 2018
OldCat
2119
May 20, 2018
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Yeah but R2 will be even more amazing!
May 20, 2018
fer.real
263
May 20, 2018
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Yeah, Laser is delayed and won't ship until sometime in July. R2 will probably be at least a year out from that. That's why I used the term "s00n™."
If I gave anyone the wrong idea that there may be a full Laser drop any time in the near future, I apologize. Your best bet for Laser without paying aftermarket prices is to get this keyboard.
May 20, 2018
JJ88
164
May 21, 2018
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Is the serialization given to people randomly or is there any kind of order? Like first to order would get a low serial #? Just curious.
May 21, 2018
fer.real
263
May 21, 2018
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The first 900 people to buy this get a random serial number that is under 1000. Same as with the CTRL and vanilla ALT.
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-mito-laser-alt-keyboard/talk/2082950
May 21, 2018
JJ88
164
May 21, 2018
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Cool, thanks for clarifying!
May 21, 2018
KM1337
1839
May 22, 2018
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In'd on a Dusk barebones... Could not pass it up. Pretty excited about this collab and all the laser keys on the way.... Mitowaves... Laserwaves.... Splaser spins... D': This going to be some Bob Ross level shenanigary when its all together.
May 22, 2018
MiTo
11940
MiTo
May 22, 2018
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Splaser spins ahahaha!
May 22, 2018
KM1337
1839
May 22, 2018
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[Laughs in 80's neon cyberpunk]
May 22, 2018
mkkwon
18
May 23, 2018
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any idea if there would be ways to get the other keys? I'm not totally liking the PGUP/DOWN keys, and I'm thinking for rebinding them to another one.
May 23, 2018
MiTo
11940
MiTo
May 23, 2018
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You can reprogram these buttons to whatever you want instead of PG UP, etc.
May 23, 2018
mkkwon
18
May 23, 2018
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@MiTo ooo gotcha! But I was wondering if there's anyway to get the custom novelty keys from https://mitormk.com/s00n/ I was probably gonna go for the laser unicorn and the ramen bowl, along with other cute iconography that would make sense there :)
Plus the WASD looks LIT!
May 23, 2018
Johnny831
279
May 25, 2018
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Follow up question... media controls? I'm new to smaller boards. In the QMK programing, I assume you could do a function of some sort?
May 25, 2018
erickong
4465
Mech Keys Moderator
May 25, 2018
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May 25, 2018
jscrub
May 25, 2018
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Could you please share information regarding your aluminum and PCB supplier?
Do you have a PCB cost? how about an aluminum housing cost? Is there a source you could provide us regarding the aluminum supplier or your PCB supplier that lets us know they are not abusing human rights?
Yours truly, not another stupid sheep who doesn't give a s*** about where my parts come from.
May 25, 2018
MiTo
11940
MiTo
May 25, 2018
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Fully compatible with media controls, you can bind those to wherever you want.
May 25, 2018
MiTo
11940
MiTo
May 25, 2018
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Those novelties were from the actual keycap set drop which closed back in November.
May 25, 2018
jscrub
May 25, 2018
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Do you have a PCB cost? how about an aluminum housing cost? Is there a source you could provide us regarding the aluminum supplier or your PCB supplier that lets us know they are not abusing human rights?
May 25, 2018
mkkwon
18
May 25, 2018
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search
🤑💸💸💸
May 25, 2018
MiTo
11940
MiTo
May 25, 2018
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Working for the remaining 121 so we can snag the best deal! Thanks for the support and enthusiasm pal!
May 25, 2018
TheDoom8ringer
69
May 26, 2018
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I gotta say, you and @MiTo have the coolest professions ever in my perspective! Keep up the epic work guys, thanks!!
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May 26, 2018
jscrub
May 26, 2018
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@MiTo Do you have a PCB cost? how about an aluminum housing cost? Is there a source you could provide us regarding the aluminum supplier or your PCB supplier that lets us know they are not abusing human rights?
May 26, 2018
jscrub
May 26, 2018
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Where are the PCBs and aluminum coming from to justify the cost? Japan? Is this shit imported from the Moon? Aluminum and silicone does not cost as much as massdrop is selling it. Check your hype, they are taking advantage of you because you do not know how much the components cost.
May 26, 2018
smoothporcupine
50
May 26, 2018
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Honestly man. If it bums you out this much, just leave the community and get a new hobby. I'm sorry to see that it brings you this much distress.
May 26, 2018
jscrub
May 26, 2018
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I am sorry to give you the impression I am under distress. No stress man, just would like massdrop to step up their game! We all can do better, right @MiTo!!!
May 26, 2018
schoolbus
1290
May 26, 2018
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Who said Massdrop was a charity?
May 26, 2018
NEXP
48
May 26, 2018
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These are fair prices when it comes to mechanical keyboards. I'd say with that keycap set and this keyboard $220 is a steal. These keycaps alone are worth almost $100 IIRC.
May 26, 2018
jscrub
May 26, 2018
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Keycaps are "worth" that much to you, but are they really worth that much? First world perspective I guess...
May 26, 2018
Lecrow
32
May 26, 2018
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If you can turn around and sell the keycaps for $100 than it's not perspective.
May 26, 2018
jscrub
May 26, 2018
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you're right, it is gouging.
May 26, 2018
kindjie
112
May 26, 2018
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Kid, you're embarrassing yourself. Anyone who might've shared your perspective tuned out long ago.
May 26, 2018
kindjie
112
May 26, 2018
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Great drop. This was an instant buy for me, and I'm looking forward to more collabs. :)
May 26, 2018
OldCat
2119
May 26, 2018
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Def Inst buy
May 26, 2018
OldCat
2119
May 26, 2018
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This is boosting sales of complementary items such as laser cables!
May 26, 2018
jscrub
May 26, 2018
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I am asking for more transparency. Kid, if you don't care, there is no harm to you, if you do care you may actually benefit from the information. If it is an instant buy and you do not care about the supply cost or the supplier work conditions, how would knowing that information hurt?
May 26, 2018
kindjie
112
May 26, 2018
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Tempted to grab one! I think I'm going to try making my own, though. I've got a few months to get a hang of the USB C part... Hopefully I don't fry anything in the process. lol
May 26, 2018
kindjie
112
May 26, 2018
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Actually, the problem isn't even with you asking for information - it's the fact that you started personally attacking contributors and then pivoted to asking for information. You're not fooling anyone with your insincere concerns.
Not that you actually care to know more, but here's a few Youtube series you can use to get a good estimate of the answers for yourself: Top Clack has a series featuring Brandon from Input Club: "Castle Keyboard Design Stream". The Board Podcast has one on designing a little macro pad PCB: "KiCAD Tutorial - FHANv3". Gamer's Nexus talking about their experience manufacturing something for the first time (a simple mod mat): "Manufacturing Detailed: What GN Modmats Taught Us". EEVBlog, AvE, GreatScott!, etc have more information on electronics, materials, and building/manufacturing in general.
Regardless, you blew your chance at being any kind of "activist" with how you approached the conversation. Sorry.
May 26, 2018
Johnny831
279
May 27, 2018
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LOL every time I come to this thread I see this and laugh... ty
May 27, 2018
HerpDerpenberg
264
May 27, 2018
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I just looked at his purchase history anyway and he's already bought the standard ALT and CTRL. Don't know why all of a sudden he seems to care about what about specific manufacturing details after he's already bought 2 boards that are coming from the same supplier.
But the board itself might be on a higher point, but Massdrop also put $50,000 into their QMK interface that will work with not just their keyboard, but benefit the entire community. More or less, I see the CTRL and ALT helping to fund that.
For anything, doing some google searches and get good ideas of manufacturing costs of products. You can pretty much estimate the build cost of an ALT keyboard yourself. You can look at typical sites and a 65% PCB that has RGB underglow is $50, this one has hot swap sockets which come out to $1.27 a piece. I'm sure they're getting bulk discounts on these, but even if they're $0.30 a piece and 67 keys on this keyboard, that's still $20 in hot swap sockets alone. Even at that getting them from Kailh direct requires 26000 minimum order quantity to purchase them but we're probably looking at 2000 CTRL + ALT keyboards so they need something like 150,000 of these things ordered. SMD RGB for each keycap on the same numbers are probably some $0.20 a piece and I know this because I just bought 50 SMG RGB to mod a keyboard of mine and have pricing information, so that's $13.40 for the RGBs. Then there's overhead to design, prototype, added assembly etc that you add to the cost. But you're at a PCB that is probably in the $90 range? Throw in a custom made case that needs to be machined out of aluminum for another $50 and you have the price they are charging us.
Bottom line, if you wanted to build this keyboard yourself, you'd be paying a pretty penny and way more than Massdrop is charging us. All in all, we get a good deal because the large quantity Massdrop has gives us a significant savings.
May 27, 2018
jscrub
May 27, 2018
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bottom line, who gives a shit about your sherlock holmes case against me... I am asking for some simple information and it doesn't hurt you to get the information.
The community talks about positivity and growth but when the rubber meets the road a bunch of you cannot get over your bunched panties because I said some shit you don't like.
So look me up, get offended, but it doesn't take weight from the fact that we just got played.
This drop contains stock from the alt keyboard, this laser drop opened right after the ALT closed, however the LASER will only ship one month off from the ALT... this means the stock being received for build is going to the other, but massdrop is not offering you the savings from the additional laser items.
Rather than jumping on the hype train, I am asking "where is the benefit of massdrop if they do not offer customer service and any drop with actual volume is delivered late"
I understand if you are unable to get over my previous statements of hate, this is the internet, I am not looking for a miracle. Again, there is no harm to me asking the questions, try not to get so offended.
May 27, 2018
sevenseacat
1713
May 27, 2018
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Now you're just lying. There was a lot of overlap between the two ALT drops.
May 27, 2018
jscrub
May 27, 2018
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We saw savings from laser translate to alt?
May 27, 2018
sevenseacat
1713
May 27, 2018
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They're two separate drops for two separate products. There have been no volume price drops on either of the boards. Why would we?
May 27, 2018
jscrub
May 27, 2018
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What are you defending? Are you a massdrop employee? what does this have to do with you? Ignore the thread or is this your weekend quest? To prove I shouldn't ask questions about the margin on the PCB and case when we just got market gamed. Two separate drops? They are the same thing, one is purple. That is the anodizing process, a lot different than machining, and the drop was split but it contains items that are going to be purchased in volume together.
It took 3 hours for my last protest to get a response from massdrop... MiTo took a few days this time around and massdrop is silent. You need to stop trying to defend the corporation who is profiting from the group buy structure.
May 27, 2018
knowimagination
148
May 27, 2018
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"the corporation who is profiting from the group buy structure."
read it again slowly and figure out why you sound stupid.
Just in case you don't see it, it is stupid to expect a corporation to not make a profit in whatever structure they see fit if you don't like it then don't support the company it is as simple as that.
May 27, 2018
OldCat
2119
May 27, 2018
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Exactly, iPhone costs 1/10 of it’s price tag and people line up to buy.
May 27, 2018
OldCat
2119
May 27, 2018
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What’s important is how much people value the product, not how much it costs to make the product
May 27, 2018
kindjie
112
May 27, 2018
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Just stop. Apologize for being a troll. Apologize to Mito. Chill. Take a few days. Then come back and raise any sincere issues you might still have. You're obviously a huge fan of mechkeys. You've put a lot of love, thought, and money into this hobby. Please don't ruin it for yourself.
I don't know what triggered you to start attacking Mito, but it seems to have passed. We just want to grow this community positively so this doesn't turn into a Youtube comment section - don't be surprised when people call you out when you attack an esteemed contributor. By all means, raise issues. Just try to be respectful, and apologize when you make a mistake.
May 27, 2018
jscrub
May 27, 2018
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mind your own business.
May 27, 2018
jscrub
May 27, 2018
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sorry, the small business...
I am defending myself against the same 4 people who are sitting around sniffing farts. If you are hung up on any of the details of my rant, get over your shit, move on and live your life.
You are free. If you do not get the meaning of my post, then you shouldn't be responding. If you do get my meaning but are too confused by a couple of words... then why are you trying to argue. Take the points, move on, don't devote your life to convincing people of your opinion via text.
Again, who are the suppliers, what are the cost of the PCB and aluminum case. This information will only be helpful to the organization. Massdrop does not offer any product more unique than any other group buy (oh but we get the free keycap), but they profit more than any independent person running group buys to help the community.
They have incorporated the group buy model... If you have trouble with these terms, get your head out of your ass and stop trying to act like your farts don't stink.
May 27, 2018
kindjie
112
May 27, 2018
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I sincerely hope you find time for introspection before you ostracize yourself completely. Good luck.
May 27, 2018
jscrub
May 27, 2018
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May 27, 2018
knowimagination
148
May 27, 2018
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"don't devote your life to convincing people of your opinion via text."
The irony and stupidity of this statement physically hurts me.
I'm going to ignore you now and hope you just fade away into nothingness for my sake and everyone else who is dying inside from watching you be clueless about everything.
May 27, 2018
jscrub
May 27, 2018
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"everyone else who is dying inside" ... so you and 10 other people who don't agree, you would classify this as "dying inside"
And I am not trying to convince you of anything, you are trying to force me to shut up because you do not like my perspective. I am asking MiTo and massdrop to provide more insight regarding the supplies and suppliers for the drop and why the timing was such to separate the two drops while not providing the volume sales that would come from the two drops combined.
Again, just defending myself against the crack squad (you) who insists their opinion is what everybody should follow.
May 27, 2018
jscrub
May 27, 2018
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Do you have any information regarding the supplies and suppliers of this drop? Are the cases and PCBs the same from the ALT drop? Why are we not receiving volume discounts between the two when they are the same item. Am I misinformed? Have volume discounts been applied between the two? Can you provide some documentation on the volume and savings?
Any information from massdrop would be appreciated, as apparently @MiTo is unwilling to discuss the topic.
May 27, 2018
Johnny831
279
May 27, 2018
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Don't worry, they weed themselves out eventually. I assume an admin will step in at some point shortly.
May 27, 2018
shyBravado
93
May 27, 2018
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Probably on Tuesday.
May 27, 2018
Clacker
143
May 27, 2018
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I'm not sure why you're expecting answers after throwing around personal insults to everyone.
Also after calling Mito a pedo (why would you do that?) and still expect answers from him...really dude?
May 27, 2018
schoolbus
1290
May 27, 2018
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obvious troll is obvious, but what kind of a sad life dictates trolling massdrop of all places? go to reddit lmao
May 27, 2018
jscrub
May 28, 2018
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Prices on the PCB and aluminum housing, information on the supplier work conditions. This is a simple request and you guys would benefit from the information.
May 28, 2018
HerpDerpenberg
264
May 28, 2018
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I wouldn't even say he's a good troll. There's no reason he needs to know prices on the PCB and housing. 522 people (as of this post), probably another 500 for standard ALT and well over 1000 for CTRL don't give a shit about the "at cost" PCB or aluminum housing or the supplier's worker conditions. Nobody would benefit from this because Massdrop isn't going to change the price of the drop all of a sudden.
May 28, 2018
jscrub
May 28, 2018
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So you put the pieces of the puzzle together for me. 1500 alt keyboards sold but you will not see any combined savings for the PCB or the housing. If people stopped fighting over nothing (welcome to the current state of the internet) we could get feedback, we could change the dynamic.
If you are willing to blindly pay, why not ask a little more of massdrop. If they justify the costs, no loss. I understand if you do not recognize the marketing ploy or do not want greater volume discounts for the total group buy. Please understand if I do want greater volume discounts for the total group buy.
May 28, 2018
HerpDerpenberg
264
May 28, 2018
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There is a thing where prices are set and consumers get no volume discounts. This is a case for that and you need to let it rest. Yes, they're likely making more money in profit the more of these sell. But you know what, good for them if they market a product that everyone thinks is a fair price. But anyway, that's enough feeding the troll. You keep running in circles and asking for things you won't get answers to, so any further discussion is a lost cause.
May 28, 2018
jscrub
May 28, 2018
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yeah man, I will let it rest, thanks for convincing me ;)
@MiTo please contact me! I have questions about the drop that I cannot ask publicly because your fans are too aggressive!
May 28, 2018
fer.real
263
May 28, 2018
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So, you're the victim now?
May 28, 2018
jscrub
May 28, 2018
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I made a hyperbolic statement and everybody took it so literally they attacked me for a week... yeah, I'm the victim of all you sallies who cannot handle critic.
May 28, 2018
fer.real
263
May 28, 2018
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Do you believe your own BS?
May 28, 2018
jscrub
May 28, 2018
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Do you want the last word? I do not believe I am bullshitting, consequently I cannot answer your bait. If you think I am trolling, why continue to feed me?
Again, people should be asking massdrop about why ALT and Laser were split, when it could have been offered together with the same options and given a better price. We do not ask massdrop for information on the parts in the keyboard, and I think it would do everybody good to learn more about massdrop's supplier costs and work conditions for this keyboard.
If MiTo is going to put his name on what is a mass produced item made by a business (not an independent group buy) hopefully he is able to stand behind the price and is using suppliers with appropriate work conditions (not just relying on compliance with international law).
I apologize if you do not agree with my perspective and would appreciate if you stopped trying to create an argument. I have repeated these points ad nauseam, they have not changed since my apology and consequent rebuttal which explained my negative emotions.
May 28, 2018
dvorcol
4978
May 28, 2018
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Please take your own advice: “...move on, don't devote your life to convincing people of your opinion via text.”
May 28, 2018
OldCat
2119
May 28, 2018
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very good suggestion
May 28, 2018
jscrub
May 28, 2018
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Who is gonna be the bigger man :)
May 28, 2018
fer.real
263
May 28, 2018
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Not you, obviously.
May 28, 2018
BlueCrowned
5296
May 29, 2018
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Calling someone a pedo isn't critique. It's a blatant lie and can completely ruin a career. It's never okay to falsely accuse someone of something that serious. Of course people were upset. Critiquing is giving thoughtful advice about how something can be better, not just spreading false accusations about someone you don't like. I am not sure you understand this, but you could have completely ruined MiTo's life.
May 29, 2018
jscrub
May 29, 2018
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lol, I could have completely ruined MiTo's life? you need to get your panties out of a bunch. First off, I said "makes me think he is a pedo" after I was censored for saying he creeped me out. If I still have to defend myself on this point you are not worth my time.
I stopped replying to people who were arguing with me in circles, I am sure you will reply with some shit that will continue the circle jerk, but know you should get over your butthurt and stop antagonizing me if you want this discussion to go away.
I am still laughing at that, an internet comment based on pure hyperbole ruining an internet celebrity's life. Jesus you guys are touchy.
May 29, 2018
NEXP
48
May 29, 2018
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I hope @MiTo sues that guy for defamation.
May 29, 2018
jscrub
May 29, 2018
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The world must be going through a revolutionary change for the internet to call defamation on a nonsense comment. Hopefully I do not need to define defamation another time... again, get your panties out of a bunch.
May 29, 2018
BlueCrowned
5296
May 30, 2018
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But... that's literally exactly what you did...
def·a·ma·tionˌdefəˈmāSH(ə)n/noun
  1. the action of damaging the good reputation of someone; slander or libel
May 30, 2018
jscrub
May 30, 2018
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If you are stupid enough to use the dictionary to determine the standing of a legal case involving international jurisdictions you are hopeless.
If you are looking to get your case started here is a good resource I dug up in 2 seconds from google... http://kellywarnerlaw.com/us-defamation-laws/
I understand, it is hard to understand.
May 30, 2018
BlueCrowned
5296
May 30, 2018
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I was just telling you the basic definition of defamation since you seemed reluctant to look it up yourself. I'm not the one who made the comment about suing. It's clearly defamation even if it's not in the legal sense (although I wouldn't be surprised if it is, since you're actively trying to ruin MiTo's reputation).
May 30, 2018
fer.real
263
May 30, 2018
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You know what's stupid? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
If Massdrop hasn't responded to your tantrum yet, what makes you think they will?
May 30, 2018
jscrub
May 30, 2018
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That is why you keep replying to me, right... bigger man?
May 30, 2018
fer.real
263
May 30, 2018
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I get the response I expect from you, Jordan.
May 30, 2018
Clacker
143
May 30, 2018
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Seriously, why did you call Mito a pedo? Why did you say he creeped you out? You could have trolled him with any other word to get his attention, but why that specific term? Why feel the need to attack his character?
May 30, 2018
jscrub
May 30, 2018
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You keep responding to me over and over after you challenged me to be the bigger man and not respond because "[you] get the response [you] expect from [me]"
Totally dude... totally.
May 30, 2018
jscrub
May 30, 2018
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I said he creeped me out because he creeps me out, I do not appreciate the use of his image to sell keyboards. I said he was a pedo because they censored what was a harmless comment, it was a hyperbolic statement made in a moment of shortsighted anger, and I apologize, and apologized for the use of the word. If people are not allowed to make off handed comments any more, society is fucked. People grow through mistakes, I made a mistake, admitted to it, got a bunch of fanboys up in arms.
The community suffers from a SJW dynamic. There are a lot of shitty things going on here, but don't use the word pedo, we can point to that one clearly and all jump on the bandwagon, that is an easy target.
After I took my lashings I decided to rebut my comment, elaborating why I felt MiTo was a creep. Why did I feel the need to attack his character? Because fuck you, worse things have been said. Is today the day we draw the line on internet censorship? No, rather, the defenders of MiTo looked me up and personally attacked me, threatened my family, my job, my security, over what amounts to a harmless word. Again, if you cannot handle a hyperbolic statement made on a message board by a guy who was just censored, get teh fuck off teh internet.
@MiTo or @YanboWu I would like information on your supplier work conditions, as well as information on the PCB and aluminum housing cost. I am confused why the LASER drop was split from the ALT when they could have been offered together with the options for LASER in the checkout menu. I think that Massdrop split this purchase to sell more keyboards at a higher margin and disguised the move to keep the price of the keyboard higher than if the drop was a combined 1500 units.
Again @MiTo if you are putting your name on a sales program sponsored by a business (who is profiting greatly from a community driven group buy model) hopefully you can stand behind the labor conditions of the factory producing your components. Hopefully you are not selling out the name MiTo just so massdrop can sell more keyboards.
May 30, 2018
limeBox
136
May 30, 2018
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You keep confusing me man... these guys run a business to profit. I don't see what's wrong with that. It's not price gouging, it's not anti-competitive. You're not going to get a price answer (and you know it too), and there's little to obtain from getting that information anyways. You (and the others too) should really shut it at this point. This whole comment page is a shitstorm and I can't stand the amount of shit being flung onto each side.
May 30, 2018
jscrub
May 31, 2018
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I don't think I have been flinging much shit, even in my defensive replies. Shit is a fun word though.
We all would benefit from the information I request and if you read my argument you would understand my position against massdrop. Stopping in and inserting yourself only restarts the discussion. Thank you for your input though, if you want to reply talking more shit please take the time to summarize my position first. Summarize my position, then present your argument.
I understand you think this is a shit show and that massdrop is just a business who should be free to do what they want, including profit. My position is that massdrop used clever marketing and drop timing to sell an additional 500 keyboards without having to offer any additional volume savings for the group purchase.
My position is that massdrop lacks any customer service and fails to deliver on time for a majority of their popular drops. It is like walmart renting out their shelves to the manufacturer, removing walmart's overhead associated with stocking their own warehouses for distribution. Just as walmart reinvented warhouse shopping, massdrop has created a new business model enabled by internet connectivity, we should take action now to demand more rather than reinforcing the current status quo.
Here we have a company who is acting as the intermediary to the manufacturer but they do not carry stock or have any meaningful customer service to support their wares. Consequently, we are supposed to see savings, however if you browse through a majority of the drops you will notice minimal savings for long delivery times. The model seems to be create drops the organization understands will not be successful, but drives traffic to the site to sell high margin re-occurring drops.
Consequently we have a website driven by media creation and we have an opportunity to get lost in the media in our scramble to get our hands on the coolest new thing on the site. Why was the LASER presented after the ALT variant? Because if you bought a LASER why would you want an ALT... If you bought an ALT and didn't cancel in time you may buy a LASER too.
Again, I understand your position, let massdrop do massdrop. But please understand my position, massdrop could do more for their customers, right now they are bottom of the barrel because most of people on this site do not know the group buy model is about communities, not profiteering.
FFS, just look at how massdrop sorts the categories of things we purchase... by community. They are playing off the dynamic but lining their pockets like any other company would.
May 31, 2018
limeBox
136
May 31, 2018
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I have no need to summarize your words; that's your responsibility. Let's break down what you said. Of course, you'll continue to comment because of stubbornness, but this'll be interesting.
> My position is that massdrop used clever marketing and drop timing to sell an additional 500 keyboards without having to offer any additional volume savings for the group purchase.
Geez, a business that profits isn't allowed to market anymore? Wow, who would have known! If you wanted savings, you should have bought in the original Laser GB. End of story. The barebones model is $130, so you're getting the body of a better pok3r. Seems ok to me.
> My position is that massdrop lacks any customer service and fails to deliver on time for a majority of their popular drops.
This is unrelated crap you're talking. You originally wanted to know the materials cost and were talking about cost related stuff only. Now you're bringing in an entirely different argument? Fine, let's talk about delays. You are right for some of them. Massdrop has fucked up plenty of times. Hell, there's that website that records their mess ups. But what about the SA Godspeed GB? That responsibility goes to SP. Laser was delayed because of a colour issue, not because Massdrop couldn't handle it. SA Carbon has legend issues, but Massdrop isn't the manufacturer. Other GBs went smoothly. Most of the smaller ones that come and go went by smoothly. It's like reviews on a website; the negative ones stand out more.
> Why was the LASER presented after the ALT variant? Because if you bought a LASER why would you want an ALT... If you bought an ALT and didn't cancel in time you may buy a LASER too.
Sorry, I don't get what you're saying. The GB for Laser was last November. We're lucky this board is being run with Laser; GMK is a large manufacturer. Imagine going to them and saying 'Yeah hi I want 500 sets of these small 60 keycaps made.' They'll laugh at its tiny magnitude, but they're making it. I feel like this is a project that couldn't have happened if weren't for Massdrop's good relationship with GMK (look up the Mint Dolch story if you want to know). Before you say something, I'm not praising either business. I'm not fond of GMK's pricings, nor do I see Massdrop as an altruistic middle man.
TLDR: You're switching back and forth between different arguments. You're implying that Massdrop (a for profit business) should lower prices for the community. I don't know what to say man. I hope one day you'll look back at this event and see how dumb of an idea it was to argue with internet strangers (very heatedly, I may add) for a few days over the price of a very niche, limited product. I'm not going to respond anymore, so see ya. I also hope anyone else reading this stops this conversation, because half of this comment page is cancer and I can't stand the tone.
May 31, 2018
jscrub
May 31, 2018
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I am saying they removed the things that take profit from business (holding stock, customer service) and brought us a model that apparently presents savings on top of a unique product. I just see a lot of unique products.
I ask you to summarize my points because anybody can take a quote and pick it to pieces. I am applying my meaning to your words, of course there will be conflict.
I want you to summarize my position so I at least understand where you are misguided on my perspective. I summarized your position for this reason.
If you want to continue this thread until the end of time I will do just as you did to me, take some quotes and write nonsense until one person gets bored with the interaction. Rather, I will stick to my original statement and apologize for not reading your last comment. I saw that you started quoting me like every other master of the internet who has butted into this conversation and decided to just skim your points and hit the TLDR.
@MiTo or @YanboWu I would like information on your supplier work conditions, as well as information on the PCB and aluminum housing cost. I am confused why the LASER drop was split from the ALT when they could have been offered together with the options for LASER in the checkout menu. I think that Massdrop split this purchase to sell more keyboards at a higher margin and disguised the move to keep the price of the keyboard higher than if the drop was a combined 1500 units.
Again @MiTo if you are putting your name on a sales program sponsored by a business (who is profiting greatly from a community driven group buy model) hopefully you can stand behind the labor conditions of the factory producing your components. Hopefully you are not selling out the name MiTo just so massdrop can sell more keyboards.
May 31, 2018
Clacker
143
May 31, 2018
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I don't really know how you think accusing Mito of being sexually attracted to children is an acceptable response to having a troll comment of yours deleted. You have some serious issues.
May 31, 2018
limeBox
136
May 31, 2018
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Man you must be really dumb to keep responding, even if I said I wouldn't (yeah this is an exception). How sad, to dedicate your time to responding to our comments. I'm out of here. If you decide to respond back to this, I'm just going to laugh at your stubbornness.
May 31, 2018
jscrub
May 31, 2018
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you overestimate the time and effort it takes to type.
May 31, 2018
jscrub
May 31, 2018
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You are not qualified to diagnose my issues. Thank you for not understanding.
May 31, 2018
Vigrith
4079
Mech Keys Moderator
May 31, 2018
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Threatened? I thought you said everyone would just have a big ole laugh about you calling someone a pedophile and acting clinically insane, not sure why the victim complex after the fact.
May 31, 2018
jscrub
May 31, 2018
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Says the guy responsible for the threats.
May 31, 2018
BlueCrowned
5296
May 31, 2018
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What makes you think MD sacrificed customer service, exactly?
May 31, 2018
jscrub
May 31, 2018
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Have you dealt with massdrop customer service? Also, tell me the phone number I can call to have my order straightened away without having to wait two days.
May 31, 2018
BlueCrowned
5296
May 31, 2018
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Yes I have and even though email can be slow sometimes their service has always been excellent.
May 31, 2018
jscrub
May 31, 2018
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Oh, thanks for the anecdote and validating my point.
May 31, 2018
BlueCrowned
5296
May 31, 2018
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I just answered your question. What was your point?
May 31, 2018
jscrub
May 31, 2018
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Massdrop doesn't offer any customer service... You do recall, you started this conversation out of the blue defending massdrop customer service.
If you get confused during this phase of our discussion, you are pro and I am con. So my point was rebutting the point you introduced a few comments back.
This shit is getting trippy.
May 31, 2018
BlueCrowned
5296
May 31, 2018
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But.. they do. So I don't think I validated your point.
May 31, 2018
jscrub
May 31, 2018
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So your standard is low enough to consider next to nothing satisfactory.
Every time you comment on this thread you refresh my effort to the top of the list.
May 31, 2018
BlueCrowned
5296
May 31, 2018
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It's not next to nothing if the service is excellent, just slow. If you feel that way maybe you're a little unreasonable?
May 31, 2018
jscrub
May 31, 2018
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The service is next to nothing and the only people who consider it excellent are people who have not had any demanding requests from the massdrop. If you want to get an answer about the product and it takes a few days to get back, no stress. If you have a pressing issue that demands more of massdrop than just replying with a friendly "no" you are shit out of luck.
I feel I am not being unreasonable and I appreciate your commitment to keeping my conversation thread fresh.
May 31, 2018
Lefibonacci
611
May 31, 2018
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so are these generally the same keys though (some of them, at least) that were offered in the original Laser drop in November '17? Or are the rather proprietary and will not fit on other boards? My understanding is these are exactly the same, just not the full set.. . please correct me if I am wrong (:
May 31, 2018
MiTo
11940
MiTo
May 31, 2018
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These are pretty much the exact same as the Cyberdeck kit, but plenty of keycaps were removed because the Laser ALT 65% keyboard wouldn't actually use them.
May 31, 2018
Lefibonacci
611
May 31, 2018
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Truthfully, I would be more concerned with the low-cost keyboards, if "human rights" associated with keyboard manufacturing is of your concern. With your logic, there must be a reason that smaller non-mech (or even some mech) companies are able to sell at the low price they are; with your logic it would likely be due to low labor costs that come from labor abuse. Whereas the reality is, materials and overall quality influence the price - which I believe should be obvious. Good luck finding a quality double-injected GMK cap set for even the price of an entire Razer board, let alone an extremely niche and high quality ~KIT~ such as this one.
Edit: for some redundancy type-o's.
May 31, 2018
Lefibonacci
611
May 31, 2018
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Thank you for the info (: and prompt reply
May 31, 2018