Showing 1 of 1307 conversations about:
bradr
961
Feb 14, 2018
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Hi all - With the positive community response around the first drop for the 58X (~1.6k units sold), we’ve been able to work with Sennheiser to begin production on those units and additional units without impacting ship time of the first drop. Because of this, will likely be able to open up a couple of limited quantity drops over the next several months. This first drop will be live at 6am PT on 2/14 with a quantity of 600 units available (the drop will be live until 2250 total units have been sold). These units are estimated to ship in July. Thanks for helping make the 58X a success!
Feb 14, 2018
Nnjkkkv
10
Feb 14, 2018
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I join the first drop. Looking foward to it. Hopefully its good.
Feb 14, 2018
fridaythe13thprey
12
Feb 14, 2018
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any posibility of making the drop available for asia country .... especially 6xx and now 58x to malaysia?
Feb 14, 2018
bharker
66
Feb 15, 2018
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Thanks for the update @bradr. There was a possibility that there may be a bass increase from the original version that went out to reviewers, is this still the case?
Feb 15, 2018
PurpleLemonade
31
Feb 17, 2018
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Ok but how can there be a positive community response if none of us have gotten them yet? Hurry it up.
Feb 17, 2018
yodamango
47
Feb 21, 2018
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@CEE_TEE @bradr I would like to know this as well. You guys said Sennheiser was going to increase the bass before production started, yet all the reviews still say they are bass light... so did they not have finished product for their reviews...? Or... can someone please clarify...
Feb 21, 2018
Tuneslover
41
Feb 22, 2018
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No one from Massdrop seems to be responding to this bass re-tuning question. Who at Massdrop is looking into this???
Feb 22, 2018
Nnjkkkv
10
Feb 22, 2018
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I bought one. Just waiting on shipping
Feb 22, 2018
yodamango
47
Feb 22, 2018
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Massdrop is quite terrible at customer service and responding... might request to cancel my order or refuse shipment because of this, think I am done with buying from Massdrop honestly.
Feb 22, 2018
bradr
961
Feb 23, 2018
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Hey all - sorry I missed the original comment.
I just checked with the team on this. Sennheiser has told us they’ll be able to increase the bass response to meet our original expectations. While we believe they will be able to achieve this for the 58x, we haven’t received an updated sample and have left the published graphs of headphone measurements as we’ve been able to measure with our original samples.
Also, as you might expect, I get a lot of notifications and dont ways get to respond to everything. Still, I agree we can do a better job in respond on site in discussions - thanks for the feedback.
Feb 23, 2018
OCBob
511
Feb 23, 2018
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" We believe they will be able to achieve this [bass response increase] for all 58x units". I would certainly hope so. I joined the drop in the #130's, so I was willing to serve as a guinea pig, but I still expect to receive the same tuned unit that the members who joined in the #2000's will be receiving. Differences in the production units would also be a disaster when it came to members writing reviews on the sound of the headphones. Peoples impressions of any particular headphone already vary quite a bit. Having members writing reviews on 2 different versions of a HD58X headphone (with the likely possibility of that individual not knowing what version they have) would be a mess.
Feb 23, 2018
trellus
178
Feb 23, 2018
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How he worded that stood out to me, too, but I rather suspect that he simply choose his words kind of poorly and did not mean to imply that there could be *some* units without the increased bass response, but rather, that all units would receive it except the early review samples and so they have nothing but those original samples on which to measure anything so they're leaving the measurements as is.
Feb 23, 2018
OCBob
511
Feb 23, 2018
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I figured as much as well, and I can't imagine Sennheiser releasing 2 versions. Like you said, poor wording.
Feb 23, 2018
bradr
961
Feb 23, 2018
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@trellus Yes, poor choice of words. Updated language slightly - thanks!
Feb 23, 2018
OCBob
511
Feb 23, 2018
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Thanks for the clarification! Much appreciated. Can't wait for these to ship.
Feb 23, 2018
yodamango
47
Feb 23, 2018
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Thank you! :)
Feb 23, 2018
Tuneslover
41
Feb 23, 2018
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I agree. ALL HD58X's including the 1st drop, should be the same bass re-tuned headphones.
Feb 23, 2018
PeteMtl
318
Feb 24, 2018
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This is great news. This may be a game changer for these HD58x
Feb 24, 2018
DJAT
221
Feb 24, 2018
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OFFTOPIC... @bradr, is there a way to reach you personally? I have proposition to make to Massdrop, if we could discuss something... Let me know. Who knows, it might just interest you. It's about headphones (the audiophile category). I've hit something interesting. My email is mr.azeemtahir@gmail.com. Ciao
Feb 24, 2018
Sennheiser
496
Sennheiser
Feb 26, 2018
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We can confirm that the final production tuning of all HD 58X Jubilee will have a modest bass increase, and we already have begun building the drivers to meet the target that Massdrop and Sennheiser collaborated on.
Feb 26, 2018
yodamango
47
Feb 26, 2018
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Thank you for confirming, can't wait for these!!!
Feb 26, 2018
OCBob
511
Feb 26, 2018
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Thank you for the update!
Feb 26, 2018
bharker
66
Feb 26, 2018
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That is excellent news, thanks for the update.
Feb 26, 2018
AverageRevolution
14
Feb 27, 2018
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Very cool thank you these will be my first headphones of yours very interested in how they will turn out
Feb 27, 2018
xblackdemonx
29
Feb 27, 2018
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They responded. Read down below
Feb 27, 2018
Sennheiser
496
Sennheiser
Feb 28, 2018
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We know exactly how to improve the bass extension and raise it a little, we just have to make all our production drivers a certain way. The sonic character is still going to be natural rather than “bass cannons,” making the headphone more cross-genre suitable for those that will use this as their “one headphone.”
WE are very interested how your first impressions turn out!
Feb 28, 2018
PurpleLemonade
31
Feb 28, 2018
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I really appreciate you taking time to hear us out. You rock Sennheiser!
Feb 28, 2018
bharker
66
Feb 28, 2018
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Glad to hear
Feb 28, 2018
yodamango
47
Mar 1, 2018
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Yeah, it is amazing, even just simple outreach likes this makes me want to own more of their products. I can't stand companies that don't communicate with the fan base.
Mar 1, 2018
Tup3x
90
Mar 1, 2018
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Sounds perfect, can't wait!
Mar 1, 2018
AMC4x4
39
Mar 2, 2018
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Wow. An extra treat for this already great drop! Thank you!! This will be my first pair of Sennheisers! Can't wait!
Mar 2, 2018
jsmiller58
588
Mar 7, 2018
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And it is the kind of customer service that results in me ordering 4 Senn headphones through MD, and has me seriously thinking about the 660S
Mar 7, 2018
MarkUp
93
Mar 8, 2018
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Quick suggestion. Consider making your own pleather earpad truly designed as a direct replacement for the stock velours on this, the old 580, the 600, 650 and 660s. It won't suffer from the problems many have with what they'd tried as replacements. In addition to hopefully more sub bass in the production version of these, having that available, from your website directly, folks would pay a pretty good price knowing it will increase seal, and ultimately bass... doing that without messing up spaciousness of the sound, or mids and treble. Please consider this, MassDrop, you might be reading this. Sell that as a Drop here and you may have your single biggest selling item ever. Well, close. Finally Sennheiser, consider a semi-open (HD670?) with that pad option, which could also increase their sub bass.
Mar 8, 2018
DanielYates0910
1
Mar 9, 2018
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If you really want bass that much go for the AKG 7xx’s
Mar 9, 2018
dnalekaw
202
Mar 10, 2018
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Really? HD 650 has more bass than K7xx
Mar 10, 2018
axtran
57
Mar 12, 2018
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Buy pads for a HE60, and the sides that face your ears will be a nice leather (-like?) material.
Mar 12, 2018
LuckyEights
176
Mar 14, 2018
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Can we get an approximate db increase so we can get an idea based off the current graphs?
Mar 14, 2018
RatedRJE
1
Mar 15, 2018
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Can you add Philippines to the shipping list? Thanks.
Mar 15, 2018
bloodpig
140
Mar 17, 2018
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Please tune the headphones with more bass i beg you :>
Mar 17, 2018
LuckyEights
176
Mar 17, 2018
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They are increasing the bass but they haven't told us by how much unfortunately.
Mar 17, 2018
Assimilator702
173
Mar 18, 2018
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AKG K702 are bass light compared to HD650. Have you heard BOTH?
Mar 18, 2018
PeteMtl
318
Mar 19, 2018
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I took the plunge today... what the heck... not a high risk gesture... they are Sennheiser's and 600 series headphones after all... I may only guess that they will offer 95% of the HD660S' refined sound for a 70% discount on price... Sennheiser simply cannot offer the HD58x with the same bass extension as with the HD660S, they would then cannibalize the sales of the HD660S, which has just been released... At least Sennheiser has accepted with the HD58x to slightly increase the bass extension and lower the resonance frequency accordingly before they begin the production... I will probably use them (without needing an amp!) with my Apple hardware (iPad, iPhone X) in my office. I'm sure they will sound fine! They will well complement my HD6XX which I use in the living room with my O2.
Mar 19, 2018
Assimilator702
173
Mar 19, 2018
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Actually if Sennheiser doesn't at least match the bass of the 660S or 650 that will upset ALOT of people. They'll be shooting themselves in the foot if they hold back on what can be delivered. They already pulled a stupid move by the odd tuning and overpricing of the 660S. They NEED to redeem themselves with this headphone. Some people simply won't wait 3 months. They'll buy the 660S. Having these close to the 660S in overall performance won't cut into sales one bit. It WILL put this headphone in higher demand and be a homerun for Sennheiser and Massdrop.
Mar 19, 2018
PeteMtl
318
Mar 19, 2018
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Why do you say the HD660S has an odd tuning? Overpriced, yes maybe, but odd tuning? If you look at the graphs, you can see that it has a near identical frequency response from 80hz up to upper mids-lower treble compared to the HD58x. The difference in favor of the HD660S is a smoother extended bass below 80 hz and a smoother treble. I say smoother in the sense of a more linear graph, not the actual sound impression (since almost noboby has yet heard the HD58X). But for most of its response graph, both headphones are near identical. Moreover, the HD58x has a slightly higher peak at 5-6 khz than the HD660s which seems to be smoother again on the graph. This slightly higher 6khz peak on the HD58x explains that some reviewers have noticed that the HD58x is probably the brightest of the 600 series from Sennheiser. The biggest difference apart for the lower bass and higher treble is the price. I agree that the HD660S‘ 499$ pricing doesn’t make sense when you can get the HD58x at 149$, the HD6xx at 199$ or the HD600 under 300$ on Amazon. Even the HD650 is currently at 369$ on Amazon. In that perspective, yes I agree that the newer HD660S is overpriced. But stupid odd tuning? How is that? Even Tyll in his perplex review agrees that the HD660S is « still a good headphone, just not a legendary headphone » and nevertheless recommends it. If you dislike the tuning of the HD660s and if you want as much bass out of your HD58x as the HD660S or HD650, I think you may be disappointed with the HD58x ‘ bass tuning, even with the promised slight bass extension.
Mar 19, 2018
jm090
246
Mar 19, 2018
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honestly "bass light" is an understatement when comparing the AKG702 to HD650's. I will put money on it that these will not reach the bass extension of the 6XX but will be really close to the 660s.
your second post sounds like a description of the HD700's not the HD660S. They were never considered oddly tuned, a very natural clean sound. overpriced, yes. oddly tuned, no. With your expectations though, i would just cancel the order now, it sounds like they are vastly different then what you want. Have you listened to HD650's? i have never considered them very bass heavy but very good for what i like, and a mild bass increase over the prototype of the HD58X would still put it quite aways away from the HD650.
Mar 19, 2018
Assimilator702
173
Mar 19, 2018
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Watch Tylls video review for the 660S on Inner Fidelity. He says they're a nice headphone but NOT an upgrade to the HD650 and disliked what he described as a plasticky sounding area in the 800 to 1.5k region in what he described as Sennheiser POSSIBLY attempting to "fix" what some people perceive as a veil. I trust his knowledge and opinion simply because everything I've tried coincides with his findings. I wouldn't say our tastes are 100% identical but very close.
Mar 19, 2018
Assimilator702
173
Mar 19, 2018
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Graphs don't tell the sound sig 100%. Look at the graphs that compare the 580x to the HD650/HD6XX. Apparently the tuning if the HD58x is energetic which I translate as an elevated treble compared to the HD650 but the response doesn't seem that much different or indicitive of a drastically different top end. Only minor differences in a few spots. I joined the drop and I hope these will make a nice compliment to my HD6xx in the same way the HD600/650 compliment each other and cover the bases for most music genres. I have the Fostex TH-X00 Mahogany when I want a bassy and fun sound signature. I just hope the HD58X are a nice can for faster Metal since the 6xx can be a bit slow due to their rich sound signature. However on material like Hiromi Trio....mind blowing. Especially with a tube amp.
Mar 19, 2018
Assimilator702
173
Mar 19, 2018
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I have the HD 6xx. They are very sufficient in the bass department. They are fully open so you can't expect mind blowing sub bass. But for music with real instruments they are a very satisfying and musical sound signature. I'll give the HD58x a shot. I can always sell them. I'm hoping for a companion headphone to the HD6xx for faster packed music.
Mar 19, 2018
jm090
246
Mar 20, 2018
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i do agree the 6XX has good bass for a completely open can compared to what else i have listened to. I am not expecting that level of bass though. I think a really good option for your second headphone would be the HE4XX or modhouse argon MK3s though( in the $150-200 price range). Sounds like the exact signature you are looking for, and planars are in a whole different level in terms of fast paced, hectic music.
Mar 20, 2018
Assimilator702
173
Mar 20, 2018
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I already have a pair of HE4XX on the way sometime in May. Oh I'm WELL PAST my second headphone. Along with HD 6XX, I have the Fostex TH-X00 Mahogany, DT900 600 ohm, DT880 250 Chrome,Sennheiser HD 205 for movies and three pairs of Audio Technica cans. All my bases are actually covered but since I just received my first REAL pair of Sennheiser I'm intrigued into that slightly different tuning that would accompany the HD6XX as my Beyers compliment each other track to track. Not genre to genre. Track to track. My headphone collection is remedial by many peoples standards but it's the journey that intrigues us into this hobby. I'm DONE for the year. No more audio gear. Well MAYBE just one more amp....
Mar 20, 2018
PeteMtl
318
Mar 21, 2018
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Promises promises lol Aren’t you curious about the Elex ? How about the k7xx? How about a nice Cavalli amp ? Solid state, tubes or why not both? Done for a year, yeah right..., promises from a headphone junkie... lol !
Mar 21, 2018
Assimilator702
173
Mar 21, 2018
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Haha. Just bought a Magni 3 and already had a Magni 2U. Picked up another 4 pairs of preamp tubes yesterday. AKG k702 don't really intrigued me. Maybe I'll try them one day. China made is off putting considering they used to be make in Austria. Focal Elex? Eh. I'll stick with Focal car audio speakers. Maybe if I hear them I'll change my mind. That's why I haven't been to a meet yet. Lol.
Mar 21, 2018
PeteMtl
318
Mar 21, 2018
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How do you like your Magni3?
Mar 21, 2018
Assimilator702
173
Mar 21, 2018
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Didn't get it yet. Just ordered last night. Saturday it should be here.
Mar 21, 2018
OCBob
511
Mar 22, 2018
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My $. 02... The M3 is the best Magni yet. I have owned all the previous models. M3 is first model to not smother the sound of my HD6xx series headphones.
Mar 22, 2018
Jacave
0
Mar 26, 2018
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I think you might be correct. The Magni 3 synergizes well with the HD650 but it doesn't quite sound good with the Sony Z7 (my preferred headphone). I'm looking for an amp with a lusher sound and less abrasive.
Mar 26, 2018
OCBob
511
Mar 26, 2018
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The Magni line has always been on the bright side. I have several pairs of headphones that just don't work with the Magnis. A glaring (pun intended) would be the Grado SR225e's.
Mar 26, 2018
Assimilator702
173
Mar 27, 2018
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I use my Magni 2U with my DT990 600 ohm which many people accuse of being bright. I don't find them bright at all. Just a bit hot in the treble. I ordered a Magni 3 last week which I should have on Thurs so I'll probably use that with my DT990 and keep the Magni 2U with my Little Dot Mk 2 to cover all the bases. I usually listen to Metal in the DT990 and other genres with my stationary setup.
Mar 27, 2018
Assimilator702
173
Mar 27, 2018
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Interesting. I have a pair of Fostex TH-X00 Mahogany that sounds like a bloated mess with certain music out of my Little Dot Mk. Out of the Magni 2U everything's back in focus and much more tight and has a VERY enjoyable sound signature. If anything the Magni 2U is fast,tight,accurate and doesn't impart much if anything to the sound. If the Magni 2U WAS bright I don't think my DT990 would be listenable. But they're VERY enjoyable. I think MUCH of the criticisms of the Magni 2U AND the DT990 are from people with VERY specific sound signature preferences. Every time I'm about to out on my DT990 I expect this screeching murder treble massacre...and Im reminded every time thats NOT the case at all. This turned into a rant but it just shows how some gear gets an unjustified bad reputation due to a few possible bad setups...or even bad or uneven hearing. I can hear someone whispering in another room so my hearing isn't shot like some people would accuse me of.
Mar 27, 2018
OCBob
511
Mar 27, 2018
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You did a better job of describing the Magni and I agree: it's hot in the treble.
Mar 27, 2018
jm090
246
Mar 27, 2018
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I agree, little Dot is loose and bloated. It's more noticable on planars too. Magni is clean and tight. Imo solid state makes for a better amp. At least in this price range.
Mar 27, 2018
Sennheiser
496
Sennheiser
Apr 11, 2018
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In this case, no news is good news ;) So far, everything is on schedule.
Apr 11, 2018
Assimilator702
173
Apr 11, 2018
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No that's not what I said at all. The Magni 2U is NOT HOT in the treble. My HD6xx sound signature wasn't hot in the treble and clearly a different treble presentation than the DT990 600 ohm. If the Magni 2U was treble heavy the HD 6xx sound signature would have been changed.....correct? And people blame an amp from being hot in the treble do they REALLY want it to sound like an amp that has a REDUCED treble response because thats THEIR sound signature preference?
Apr 11, 2018
OCBob
511
Apr 14, 2018
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When I say a bit I mean a small bit, but enough to make it incompatible with some of my cans. Most notably bright headphones like my Grado sr225e's and MDR 7506. I spent a fair amount of time A/B'ing the Grado's and Sonys on my M2U and my Asagard 2, and in that case it was noticeable. I suppose one could argue that the Asgard 2 is more to the warm side and the Magni 2U is a better benchmark. Though I wouldn't ever argue that. The warmth of the HD650/HD6XX probably would't really highlight the small difference I'm talking about, especially since the M2U isn't capable of running the HD6XX headphones to anywhere near their full potential. I never felt that the Magni 1, M2 or M2U were a good pairing with the HD6xx series of headphones(especially the 300ohm models). I didn't even realize what they were capable of until I got my Woo WA3 which is even more impressive than running them off of the MB Jot's balanced output. I'd also imagine that there are amps that would take the HD6xx series cans to even higher levels of sound quality. I've had all the Magnis Schiit has released, and while they are nice little amps that punch way above their price category (especially the new Magni 3) they are still $100 headphone amps. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just relaying what I (me, my ears) hear when I compare the Magni line to some of my other amps.
Apr 14, 2018
OCBob
511
Apr 14, 2018
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The LD MK II is an OTL tube amp and is not compatible with many or even most headphones. Especially a pair of 25ohm Fostex or a set of planars. The LD is best paired with dynamic driver headphones in the 250-600 ohm range and it's power focus is at the 300ohm mark. The amp isn't loose and bloated when paired with headphones for which it was designed.
Apr 14, 2018
jaybattle
23
Apr 15, 2018
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I agree, to my ears the 6XX sounds just about perfect in the bass department. I have been revisiting old music favorites and I have been very pleased.
Apr 15, 2018
Assimilator702
173
Apr 16, 2018
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Well I've heard the TH-X00 through the LD Mk 2 on high gain +10 db mode and it is loose and sloppy. But on +7 db the TH-X00 behaved much better. Not as good as on the Magni 2U but not horrible. I've still yet to try it on +5 db and +3 db but for the most part the headphone keeps it's composure much better on a solid state amp. For certain VERY laid back music the TH-X00 might be ok on tubes.
Apr 16, 2018
Assimilator702
173
Apr 16, 2018
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So is there any truth to the ramblings of the Magni 3 being 95% of a Jotenheim? There are guys in Head-Fi that are claiming this. I just got my Magni 3 and have maybe 8 hours play time on it but haven't done any A/B comparisons yet.
By the way Schiit customer service is damn good. My first Magni 3 played heavily distorted out of the box and they got a new one sent out to me ASAP. It took the slow boat across the country but their turn around was faster than I would have expected. As soon as they had confirmation that the defective unit was in the Fed Ex system which was on a Friday they sent my new unit out on Monday. FYI request that anything Schiit sends to you is DOUBLE BOXED. The first unit was sent in the retail box and I have a feeling it didn't have enough protection for the rough handling of Fed Ex.
Apr 16, 2018
OCBob
511
Apr 22, 2018
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Sorry my reply took so long, had to go out of town for work, and I wanted to test before I replied. I brought my M3 home the other day and did some A/B experiments. I was running the M3 off of the Jot's SE outputs/MD DAC module so I don't know if the Jot was coloring the output to the M3. I may do some additional experiments. My conclusion is that on the single ended side of things the 95% claim is valid. The M3 actually has more power at 300 ohms than the Jot does (SE side), but I'd give the quality edge to the Jot, but it's a small edge (the balanced side was no contest IMO). But still, with a lot of my cans it was almost impossible to tell the difference between the 2 amps. Especially the easy/easy-ish to drive low/lower imp headphones. Cans like the HD598, HD599, HD579, HD569, MDR7506 (which wouldn't even work with the original Magni; but the MDRV6 would...wired differently) DT770 80ohm, Pro4S and others aren't going to improve all that much with the Jot if at all unless you rewire for balanced, and then the differences may still be small. The main benefit I see with the balanced side is with the high impedance (250/300 0hms) headphones.
I've gotten nothing short of stellar service from Schiit. Though I wasn't happy with my MB DAC module experience. I paid for 2 day shipping and it still took 10 days to get the product to me, and then when it arrived I was missing some of the parts required for installation. They got those shipped right away when I contacted them, but they sent it on a slow boat to China!

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Apr 22, 2018
Assimilator702
173
Apr 22, 2018
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I have since received my second Magni 3 and I have no problems with this unit. I’ve listened to the new unit exclusively for the past week but haven’t compared it to my Magni 2U yet. I always need to have something in my possession for a few weeks before I start REALLY playing with it. Good to hear you don’t find too many differences between the Jot and the M3.
Apr 22, 2018
Sennheiser
496
Sennheiser
May 11, 2018
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Hello everybody who might be curious, a little update... the finalized tuning of the HD 58X Jubilee is coming out great, with bass levels like the HD 650 (and HD 6XX).
Thanks to the whole community for all your encouragement and shared excitement, we’re proud to bring this great value to you soon!
May 11, 2018
trellus
178
May 11, 2018
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Is this FR graph accurate? Pre-production in red, final version in green?
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It was briefly up on a web site then suddenly taken down....
May 11, 2018
Sennheiser
496
Sennheiser
May 11, 2018
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Not sure at a glance how accurate that is (also, different measurement equipment / headphone seatings / etc can affect the final graph result), but that sure looks like a nice FR. Our own measurements have improved over the years with the advancements in technology. We will see.
Right now, many of our Product Managers are busy at the Munich High End show! Here’s a cellphone picture after setup, before the show was officially open:
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May 11, 2018
Assimilator702
173
May 11, 2018
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Thank you so much for giving this headphone HD650/6XX bass levels. I would have been seriously disappointed if it couldn't keep up in levels. I can understand slightly less resolving bass....but not less overall bass. Hopefully this will be a nice companion to the HD 6XX. Can't wait!
May 11, 2018
Sennheiser
496
Sennheiser
May 11, 2018
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May 11, 2018
Motorrad
2450
May 12, 2018
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Too bad we could not have what we were sold in the first place: neutral specs closer to the HD600. I already have HD650's. I'm sure they'll be great, but this is not necessarily a change for the better. I get that the promise of "more bass" always sells more units to the average consumer and these were not moving fast enough. sigh. Can't wait to hear 'em.
May 12, 2018
Aja12
101
May 13, 2018
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What we were sold in the first place? We were sold a brand new product, with newly developed components, months out from final production, from one of the worlds top headphone manufacturers, with manufacturing kept in Ireland and NOT moved to China...at a $150 price point? The tuning changes were done in response to community feedback (If the leaked graphs are legitimate and accurately measured, which I think they are). These aren’t going to be the HD650’s, and they’re not going to be the HD600’s. They’re going to be awesome.
May 13, 2018
Motorrad
2450
May 13, 2018
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yes, what we were sold in the first place. Since you clearly were not paying attention from the beginning, go back and read the reviews of the pre-prod samples and Axel Grell's comments. "The tuning changes were done in response to community feedback..." no shit. From what I've seen, the "community" are idiots who pointlessly argue about 'leaked graphs' and don't really care about the nod to the neutrality of the Jubilee or 600; they just want 'more bass'. "These aren’t going to be the HD650’s, and they’re not going to be the HD600’s." again, no shit. and like I said, they likely are not going to be particularly neutral (like what we were sold in the first place)...because the average consumer here, aka the "community" equates 'more bass' with 'awesome'. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just not what we were sold in the first place. "We were sold a brand new product, with newly developed components, months out from final production, from one of the worlds top headphone manufacturers, with manufacturing kept in Ireland and NOT moved to China...at a $150 price point?" hahaha. I'm sure you felt very self righteous writing that, too bad it has zero relevance to anything I have said. "They’re going to be awesome." Sure, of course they're going to be awesome, and, like I said, I can't wait to hear them, but they could have been what we were sold in the first place. It's hard to take audio opinion seriously from someone like you who can not listen to what someone is saying and only hears what he wants to hear.
May 13, 2018
audible
441
May 13, 2018
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You are correct on a number of points. This drop does seem to be shifting away from the 580/600 inspired specs initially proposed and heralded by reviewers. Truly, what passes for community here is laughable and *community-driven* even more so - Aja12 and Assimilator702 are timely examples. Still, I'm not disappointed that the change was made even though it was just to try to bump up the flagging sales. I still have some well preserved HD600's and was drawn to these merely by the new impedance rating (and the price!). You seem to imply that you know that you will not be disappointed either, but it is true that you were sold something a bit different than where this drop seems to be going. All the press and reviews did have these pegged as the second coming of the HD600. Again we are reminded that neutrality does not sell well to millennials.
May 13, 2018
Assimilator702
173
May 13, 2018
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Thank.you for.includomg.me.in.youe RANT and using.me of an.exwmple of someone that doesn't know what good sound is. Don't assume you know everything or pass your arrogant and snobby mindset on others without knowing who you're talking about. If the HD5xx was bass LIGHT I would have been disappointed because guess what? If a headphone can't reproduce the bass levels at about accurate levels it's a FAILURE as a headphone. Do you listen to lute and flute music 24/7?;I listen to music with the full spectrum of sound so I want my headphones to reproduce EVERYTHING. You are the type of person that makes audio enthusiasts a bad name. What exactly would be better about the headphone with the original tuning? You tell me. What?
May 13, 2018
audible
441
May 13, 2018
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haha. thanks for driving my point home with that clueless and idiotic drivel that does not even warrant a response more than a laugh and scoff.
May 13, 2018
Motorrad
2450
May 13, 2018
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FFS...you are missing the point. "I listen to music with the full spectrum of sound so I want my headphones to reproduce EVERYTHING." -We all do. "If the HD5xx was bass LIGHT I would have been disappointed because guess what? If a headphone can't reproduce the bass levels at about accurate levels it's a FAILURE as a headphone. " -Are you 12? seriously. Bass light? nah. The 580/600 were not bass light, nor would this be in its original tuning. That's not to say that the HD650 is bass heavy or that the HD600 could not "reproduce the bass levels at about accurate levels". Yet AGAIN, a headphone tuned to enhance the lower end of the spectrum is not always better. Many, myself included, agree that the 600 is a more accurate HP than the 650. Your argument is nonsense based on ignorance. "Don't assume you know everything or pass your arrogant and snobby mindset on others without knowing who you're talking about." - see above comment. Like the guy said "we are reminded that neutrality does not sell well to millennials"...
May 13, 2018
Broody
124
May 13, 2018
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yo man step off the kidz just need dat baaaaass!
May 13, 2018
Assimilator702
173
May 13, 2018
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I have the HD 6xx and it's fully satisfying in the low end. Its not planar bass but that's ok. You can't blame an apple for not being an orange. We have the TH-X00 for that. We're all here with a common interest and I don't see the point at being at each other's throats. If anyone's unhappy with their life don't bring your baggage to a place that SHIULD BE a source of enjoyment. Does listening to music out you in anstatr of agony Kids is NOT spelled with a Z, THAT is not spelled with a D and bass has 2 s's and ONE A. Reminds me of some of the idiots I deal with on a daily basis that want 4 15" subs in their vehicle and 5k watts of power.
May 13, 2018
Broody
124
May 13, 2018
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WHOA nice word salad! became even more jumbled with your subsequent edits, that's hard to do.
So you have the X00. nice. me too. Why do you need to begrudge others the neutral cans they were promised?
Cool. nice to know that 'not' is now spelled 'nit'. cool. guess you're not as dumb as you sound.
May 13, 2018
Aja12
101
May 13, 2018
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Has Massdrop changed the product page description? Have the specs changed? No. Has Sennheiser made any official comment on changes? No. You’re having a melt down over a single leaked, unconfirmed, since removed measurement graph? Sounds logical.
The early tests you’ve put so much faith in were clearly identified as preproduction samples. How about calming down and waiting for the finished product before you continue to whinge, complain, and cry? Or just keep going. I‘m sorry that the world isn’t catering to your needs, it seems to be making you very angry.
“It's hard to take audio opinion seriously from someone like you who can not listen to what someone is saying and only hears what he wants to hear.”
Lol, what? Since we‘re conversing on the internet, I’m reading text off of an LCD screen. You are not speaking, and I am not listening. I’m not hearing anything you say, because you are not speaking it, you are writing it. How can I hear written text?
May 13, 2018
Motorrad
2450
May 14, 2018
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Meltdown? pfft. I made one comment and defensive, ignorant dipshits like you are apoplectic. Your initial indignant reply is unhinged. Guess it's just an Aussie thing... Clearly, they did make changes, but I get that reading comprehension might be too much for you, with English not being your first language. The only thing I am 'complaining' about is the ignoramuses like you and Ass702 who are whinging, complaining and crying that they don't have enough bass even though it was equivalent to the headphones they are an homage to. Like I have said several times now, whinger, I'm sure they will be great and I can't wait to hear them.
"...I’m not hearing anything you say, because you are not speaking it, you are writing it. How can I hear written text?" apparently that don't teach about analogies where you come from...such a literal society. phht.
"Has Sennheiser made any official comment on changes? No." ...from Sennheiser:"...a little update... the finalized tuning of the HD 58X Jubilee is coming out great, with bass levels like the HD 650 (and HD 6XX)." ...reading is hard... You wrote: "Have the specs changed? No. " and yet you also wrote: "The tuning changes were done in response to community feedback (If the leaked graphs are legitimate and accurately measured, which I think they are). " --get your story straight, champ.
May 14, 2018
Aja12
101
May 14, 2018
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Lol, I’m not reading another one of your rants. You seem really unhappy with life. They‘re headphones for crying out loud.
May 14, 2018
Motorrad
2450
May 14, 2018
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rants?! hahaha! they're YOUR words. "You seem really unhappy with life." You seem frustrated that you don't know what you're talking about. "They‘re headphones for crying out loud." Exactly! dunno why you had to get so defensive. anyway, I accept your concession.
May 14, 2018
Aja12
101
May 14, 2018
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I‘m not defensive, I just don’t want invest the same amount of time that you’re seemingly willing to invest in arguing with someone like you on the internet. I don’t know you, you could be a 60 year old sex offender or a child for all I know.
May 14, 2018
Motorrad
2450
May 14, 2018
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You are defensive; you started out defensive and have remained so...and yet, you are wasting the same amount of time, and you are still unable to look any less wrong. bravo. I already accepted your concession.
May 14, 2018
Motorrad
2450
May 14, 2018
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Glad someone gets what I was saying without becoming so butthurt. It is uncanny how you can call people tools and they will line right up to prove you right. uncanny. Correct that I am not going to be disappointed with the final product, I also still have some well preserved slightly modded 600's and would love to hear a new neutral Senn that is not an HD800.
May 14, 2018
Aja12
101
May 14, 2018
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Lol, butt hurt? You sound pretty butt hurt about spending $150 on something that may not be what you wanted it to be. Me? I’m stoked about how the HD58x are shaping up. You‘re the one whinging and claiming W’s on the internet 😂
May 14, 2018
Motorrad
2450
May 14, 2018
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again...reading is hard for you. I already have what I want and these will be great to have around. Not claiming anything. You gave up because the only way you could feel relevant was by misinterpreting what I was saying and going for the strawman...or maybe you really are as stupid as Ass702.
May 14, 2018
Azaaa
99
May 14, 2018
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Bloody hell, I wasn't sure if I was on massdrop or r/iamverysmart after that read.
May 14, 2018
Assimilator702
173
May 14, 2018
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Dude you really are a piece of work. You WOULD NOT talk that way to my face. Constantly bringing me into this argument doesn't make you seem smarter. So stop acting like the stereotypical keyboard commando. You seriously have some screws loose. At this point you're just a disruptive TROLL. We're talking about a $150 headphone. Its not a $2500 headphone. If you think they'll sound great and you can't wait to hear them why must you have a problem with what myself and others have commented on? Because we're happy Sennheiser is ensuring they have sufficient bass response? I have confidence that Sennheiser knows how to bass correctly. We're not talking JVC, Sony....or Beats.
May 14, 2018
Motorrad
2450
May 15, 2018
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Don't be a hypocrite. With comments like that, you are the 'commando'. You dragged yourself into this just fine when you and your buddy got butthurt trying to defend your position by dishonestly misrepresenting mine. The 'trolling' go both ways, so you trying to take the high road here is laughable... Your word-salad comments indicate that you are not even attempting to understand what I was talking about; they are just knee-jerk, butthurt reaction that have zero to do with a thing I said. FACT. The Headphone in question became a footnote in this a long time ago, you guys just can't seem to get over it. It has noting to do with trying to be smarter, though frankly it really does seem that you are trying to be dumber with those tangential, non-sequitur, comments.
"If you think they'll sound great and you can't wait to hear them why must you have a problem with what myself and others have commented on? " Do you not see that that goes both ways? seriously. I voiced my initial beef with the change and you guys are falling all over yourself to crap on it with spurious apologetics.
May 15, 2018
audible
441
May 15, 2018
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I get it, but I also get that you're beating your head against the wall trying to get through to entitled millennials. They've figured out they can troll you by avoiding the point. I though just my 10 year old did that.
May 15, 2018
audible
441
May 15, 2018
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more like r/douchebagmillennials...
May 15, 2018
musikl
41
May 15, 2018
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Actually I also would've liked to keep them as close to neutral and with good clarity and air, and the fact that they were supposed to be similar in sound to the hd600 was encouraging. Whoever stated above that he listens to lute and flute all day therefore needs more bass should maybe get a pair of beats and stick to listening dubstep or whatever, because he doesn't have a clue about classical instruments. Edit: And after carefully checking the graph comparison to both the Hd650 and hd660 I'm truly disappointed. It seems it will be a dark and bass heavy headphone (more bass than both of the above and less highs and clarity). It's not under any circumstance the neutral headphone I joined in for. Instead of a headphone that will work well for classical, piano and jazz (vocal), it will be a headphones for the masses who just want bass but couldn't tell quality sound from their ass. Mass drop = drop for the masses? Because this was just turned into a headphone for the masses. If that's the case, it will be the only product I will ever buy from mass drop. Quite frankly, I'd like to cancel. I know the listing was for pre-production, but when it said "raising the bass a little" I don't think anyone expected 12dB. More bass than the hd650 and hd660 which are already on the dark side. Please let it not be the case. 5dB raise is acceptable, maybe even appreciated by some. Quite frankly when you said "a bit" I expected 3-5dB. 12dB makes it a completely different headphone from what most of us signed up for.
May 15, 2018
Assimilator702
173
May 15, 2018
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The HD 58x driver is based on the driver in the HD 700 and HD660S. With all the similarities to the 660S.....some people speculated this headphone COULD be close in performance and tuning. Sennheiser designed the 660S....not Beats loving nitwits. And we aren't the ones trolling that arrogant SOB. He's the one that started mudslinging our names like an entitled brat. And you guys are blaming US for acting like entitled millennials. If you want an HD 600....get an HD600. If you want something even more resolving get a pair of HD700 or HD800. All I was hoping for was a headphone that will complement my HD6xx and be just different enough to work on a large variety of music. I listen to Metal, old school Jazz,Jazz/Fusion, Classic Rock and Classical. So my music tastes according to you guys make me a Beats loving audio newb? OK. And we're talking about a pair of OPEN HEADPHONES. Based on that fact alone why would ANYONE make a comparison to a sealed headphone that emphasizes one audio spectrum over the rest? Quite possibly for the sake of argument. At the end of the day we all just want to enjoy our music. Why such negative energy?
May 15, 2018
Renodoko
12
May 15, 2018
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Sorry to hear that. But for me, I think I personally prefer this new change on the bass and reduced 5k peak. Change can't make everyone happy. I think you should better off canceling your order and go with something like HD600 instead.
May 15, 2018
musikl
41
May 15, 2018
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I misinterpreted the lute and flute statement as the reason why you want a bass raise, my bad. Nonetheless, for your preferred genres, a more neutral, cleaner-sounding headphone is a better choice than a dark, bass-heavy headphone, and if this will be a couple of dB bassier than the HD650 and 660, then, as I stated, it's not what I was after. As I said, I didn't expect the "small bass raise" to mean 10-12dB as seen in the leaked graph, since that makes it an entirely different headphone. I'll be waiting for the reviews and graphs of the final headphone and request a cancellation if that's indeed the final FR.
May 15, 2018
musikl
41
May 15, 2018
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Agreed that change can't make everyone happy, but when you advertise something (be it pre-production) and then you make it into a completely different product, it's rather misleading. I expected small changes, not a dark bassy headphone instead of what was advertised and reviewed in pre-production.
May 15, 2018
jaffe
175
May 15, 2018
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The guy that started this argument was correct to assume that this can was going to be neutral sounding like the 600 - from everything I read and watched, that is how it was marketed! He was not right to dis millennials, but it turns out he was right with the way you are acting. You keep saying you wanted a headphone that would complement the HD6xx, whatever that means to you. To those who have actually owned the HD600, its neutrality is the perfect complement to the HD650. Your comments indicate that, to you, the HD600 was a failure, with that, you lost any credibility you might have had and you keep defending things that nobody was attacking in the first place - like your music tastes. It is more than understandable to be miffed that something that was sold as a tribute to the 580 is now DARKER than the 650. It looks like they did cave to pressure because sales were slow and neutral sound signatures don't sell to the masses. You're on about negative energy, yet you can't seem to stop with it. Your juvenile defensiveness did not start this, but it definitely poured fuel on it. I know you refuse to see that.
May 15, 2018
jaffe
175
May 15, 2018
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I'm sure they will be very good, but the problem is that they were first billed as having a more neutral signature - like the HD600. That, and the 150ohm impedance was/is attractive. There's nothing wrong with either signature, but it is true that the more neutral sound does not sell to the masses and the sales were sloooow. Everybody wants it the way they want it, but the allegedly significant bass boost seems contrary to the tribute...maybe they should have changed the name too. So much speculation!
May 15, 2018
Assimilator702
173
May 15, 2018
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I didn't see the leaked graph. My initial comment that started this shit storm was in response to the comment made by the Sennheiser rep that the bass level was being raised slightly. I knew NOTHING of the 12 db increase. I need to find that graph if it's still floating around. Sennheiser said they modified the driver to lower the Fs. Will the 12 db bump translate to a 12 db increase in output the same manner an EQ would? We won't know until we hear it. At this point I just want to hear it to know if I want to sell or keep it. I just want something that will compliment the HD 650 for a variety of music genres.
May 15, 2018
musikl
41
May 15, 2018
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Yeees! That was exactly why I was disappointed when I saw the graph. I joined the drop after reading the reviews and expecting something on the neutral side, more similar to the HD600 than the HD650 (from the diyaudioheaven which is a very trustworthy source) and a little easier to drive. Jaffe, you've stated it as clearly as humanly possible, thank you!
May 15, 2018
musikl
41
May 15, 2018
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The graph can be seen in this thread as well as in the one bellow, where there are two more graphs comparing to the HD660 and HD650. They're significantly darker than both (more bass, less treble), so I really doubt it will compliment an already dark-ish headphone. They have 5-6dB more than the HD660 and 3dB more than the HD650 in the bass region. And I was willing to try them at the risk of not liking them when the graphs and the reviews put them in the more neutral territory, not when I know they will be so dark. Therefor, I'm waiting for official FR graphs of the final version, but if these are right, it's not the product that Massdrop and Sennheiser advertised.
May 15, 2018
Assimilator702
173
May 15, 2018
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When someone calls you a Beats loving millennial, they ARE insinuating the type of person you are and the type of music you listen to. I am guilty of NEITHER of those things. I ONLY became defensive when Motorad became insulting towards me. I've never owned an HD600 but I have the HD650 arguably the most important headphone besides the HD600 and they aren't that different according to many people.
Many people say the HD 660S is different enough from the HDv650 and they compliment each other. The HD 650 being more lush and warm with the HD 660S having a bit more of an agile & quicker response....and more like the HD600. Two sound signatures that compliment each other. Similar...but different enough to own both. Just like the Beyer DT990 and DT880. I was hoping that the HD58x could POSSIBLY be a similar pairing to the HD650. If people are seeing me as less credible for those statements I can say they didn't ask me to expand on my comments to explain myself further and they became much too critical WITHOUT getting all the info.
If this was a face to face situation and someone thinks they mistakingly hear something and it can be cleared up immediately. No big deal. But Because this is the internet and to compound things not a tight community like many forums I frequent there is no clarification of facts to prevent an unnecessary escalation. It's headphones people. There are more important things to worry about in life.
May 15, 2018
sucram65
48
May 15, 2018
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Accurate reproduction maybe?
May 15, 2018
Broody
124
May 15, 2018
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In the comments above you said this: I joined the drop and I hope these will make a nice compliment to my HD6xx in the same way the HD600/650 compliment each other and cover the bases for most music genres. That's what the people you are pooping on expected too with the 58x. Seems you expected it to sound like the 600 at one point too. Then you said this: If the HD5xx was bass LIGHT I would have been disappointed because guess what? If a headphone can't reproduce the bass levels at about accurate levels it's a FAILURE as a headphone. --even though the bass levels and signature were on par with the 600. Your opinions seem somewhat inconsistent, quite possibly for the sake of argument. You are being negative and also complaining about the negativity. You are calling others entitled, but acting entitled. You are calling others trolls when you are also trolling. You can't have it both ways.
May 15, 2018
jaffe
175
May 15, 2018
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You are too defensive. You are really projecting man. The complaints about the changes to the original signature of this headphone are completely legit as is the observation that 'neutral signatures don't appeal to the masses'. You took offense to that. You don't like feeling like you're being lumped in with the masses, I get that, but you're really stretching, 'butthurt' even. It is true that you have made some inconsistent statements and even some unintelligible statements but some good ones as well. It does looks more like you just want to be contrary and argumentative, though. You keep saying: there are more important things to worry about in life. So act like it. btw you are the only one in this thread I can see that made any assumptions about someone's musical preferences.
May 15, 2018
trellus
178
May 16, 2018
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I thought I read that the 58X had the least bass of the entire 6xx line, lower than the 600 even, not that it was at 600-level (before the tuning changes, I mean.)
May 16, 2018
MarkUp
93
May 17, 2018
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Thanks for listening to your followers. I know one of them is upset at these having as much or more bass than the HD650 / HD6XX but most want that. I prefer that 'leaked' graph with the extra bass, flatter bass around 60-80 hz than on HD650 / HD6XX, that is dipped there. The upper bass / lower mids area (100 hz to 200 hz) seems a bit cleaner than on the HD650 / HD6XX as well. So you were able to get that extra smooth, extra extended bass without 'clouding the midrange'. Brilliant.
Further, you got rid of the annoying looking peak in the lower highs. In fact the smoothness up there means detail could be even better, while being less peaky. No so-called "veil" (though I never found the 600 series veiled) but no sibilance in your effort to add a bit of clarity. Your HD820 closed model proved to me you could do the tricky task of adding bass extension, without any bloating. With low impedance and price, this model could be the consumer level go-to audiophiles will still dig.
My word on frequency response and "flatness". As a recording / mixing / mastering engineer who prefers using monitors vs. headphones, it's been a hard task to find cans that are up to it. I found a few closed pairs I dig & the right open pair has yet to happen. The AKG K7XX and K712 didn't cut it. The HD650 was always a touch lacking in the subs. The 1 - 2 db more for sub bass on these makes a big difference. I'm not talking "bass head". It's possible to have more bass without any real sacrifices.
You could add 2 - 3 db more to the 'leaked' graph below 100 hz, and it still won't be 'bass head', it wouldn't even be truly flat, as the ideal curve has a few db more at 20 hz vs. 100 hz. Just getting it flat from 100 hz - 20 hz is not possible with most open cans of course, but a good target. Your ability to increase it there is appreciated; and anyone can see on the leaked graph low mids, mids and highs do not suffer from it. I still think a semi-open "HD670" (with even more bass) has potential as an option.
May 17, 2018
musikl
41
May 17, 2018
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Did you really join this drop expecting a 11-12dB increase in bass? And now you're actually saying you would've liked 15 more dB over the pre-production version? Are you really the 3-in-1 engineer you stated? Because somebody that versed would not expect, after he payed in advance for an executive saloon, to receive a Hummer when the final details are settled for production, if I'm allowed the analogy. I get that different people have different tastes (although I doubt somebody doing good quality mastering work would ever do it on entry Hi-Fi headphones), but what I and others have complained about is that this is turning into a different product than what we payed for. I'm all fine with others wanting more bass than the HD650, but that should be marketed as a different product in a different drop. It's as simple as that.
May 17, 2018
MarkUp
93
May 18, 2018
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11-12 db? I said 1-2 db more. Look at the 'leaked' green frequency response, it's exactly the 1-2 db more bass. I'd stated I hoped not for 'bass head' headphones, but improving what many consider deficient lower sub bass, as these actually seemed to do. I'd also said I wouldn't expect open cans in this range to have that kind of flat sub bass (11-12 db more than the HD650 if that's what you are getting at). You said above "these won't be the headphones MassDrop and Senn. advertised". Yes they will. They said at the very start in the first thing they posted that they would ask for more in the sub bass. The highs are largely unchanged, except they've got rid of that ridiculous 8-9 khz peak in the first graphs.
May 18, 2018
musikl
41
May 18, 2018
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I haven't joined a drop for the HD650. Those are already on the dark side. I'm comparing the current frequency response to that of the HD58x that was reviewed and advertised. That's what I joined the drop for. They did say they'll request a small increase, but that's by no means small. So yes, 11-12db increase. And that makes for a completely different product than what was advertised. See the car analogy above for a clearer picture. May I ask if you joined this drop?
EDIT: Diyaudioheaven just confirmed that the plot was correct and it's already in production: "The HD58X Jubilee’s are already in full production by the way and are the same as the one shown above. Watch the Massdrop site for publication about this. When their cat is out of the bag (may still take a while) my findings will be posted here as well as a more elaborate article in pdf with some interesting modifications for those that seek HD600 type of balance. "
I'm looking forward to the full article and what those mods involve. Or, depending on that, to a refund.
May 18, 2018
Aja12
101
May 18, 2018
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A “small” increase in bass over the preproduction model/measurements? This is what was actually said by Massdrop early on in the game; “We have requested an increase to bass extension if Sennheiser can do so without any negative effects by the time of production and they have agreed.” And that’s exactly what Sennheiser have done.
May 18, 2018
Tup3x
90
May 18, 2018
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We knew from the start that the bass is going to get stronger. No one knew how much. It was never stated.
May 18, 2018
musikl
41
May 18, 2018
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Well, I'll be... If it wasn't edited, then indeed, they haven't stated by how much. I still didn't expect such a departure from what was initially reviewed - see the review conclusions in the product page (balanced, no booming bass or boosted treble, brighter than the HD650, veil not so prevalent etc.). But since we're splitting hairs, they requested "an increase to bass extension", not louder bass overall. For reference, see the better *bass extension* of the HD660s, without the big raise in the 50-200Hz territory. That's what better bass extension would mean, if you want to debate wording. The fact remains that they'll have a very different sound from what was initially reviewed and they'll definitely be dark.
To explain why I joined this talk - basically what I expected after reading thoroughly about this product was a balanced, neutral headphone, not very different from the HD600 but easier to drive, at a very enticing price. And in all fairness, that's what was marketed (see product description, specs and reviews).
As I've said, I get that some people will like them better this way, and that's only natural, everybody has their own preference and specific intended usage. I simply think it should've been marketed as a different product (HD58x-B or such) and not make such a radical change to the product that was reviewed initially and for which we (or at least I) joined the drop.
In the end, I guess I'm waiting for the final reviews and see if the mods don't involve radical changes, soldering, warranty voiding etc. There might still be the promise of what I joined in for, going by the "more elaborate article in pdf with some interesting modifications for those that seek HD600 type of balance" that Solderdude hinted at.
May 18, 2018