Showing 1 of 1226 conversations about:
Doges
25
Jul 29, 2018
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I think everyone saying they prefer these over HD6XX is just on their honeymoon.
There's a reason the HD6XX are more expensive, don't ya think?
Jul 29, 2018
RiflemanFirst
647
Jul 30, 2018
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Meh, not everyone is that big a fan of the mellow/laid back sound of the HD650/HD6XX. I had the HD650 for a while and sold them shortly after getting the HD660S. I prefer the clarity, soundstage & overall energy of the HD660S hands down. I haven't tried the HD58X yet, but I could see how some people would prefer it over the HD650/HD6XX if it sounds anything like the HD660S.
Jul 30, 2018
Rasaska
41
Jul 30, 2018
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Sound is subjective, main difference for some people here is the bass and the slightly wider soundstage
Jul 30, 2018
PhucHPham
14
Jul 30, 2018
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For EDM, I prefer these over HD650/HD6xx ; for slow music (not sure how people call it), I switch back to HD650. It depends on my mood atm.
Jul 30, 2018
jaydunndiddit
2614
Jul 30, 2018
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I am one of those vocal about not being the hugest 650/6XX fan. While it has it's place, and does some things quite well, for those that have a very eclectic music taste the 6XX falls flat. It's a slow, laid back headphone that doesn't have the best bass extension or treble extension. However, it has marvelous mids and a good tonality. The 58X is faster, brighter, more energetic and in your face and has better bass extension. And while being subjective, I like the looks of the black colorway and grey grills more.
For me, the 6XX does rock well. Especially classic rock. The 58X sounds great with the blues, rock, pop, soul, RnB, etc. It can just handle more genres well over the 6XX (to me). Expense has nothing to do with it. It's all about individuals personal preferences. Technically, the 6XX is more expensive due to driver materials and a different dampening scheme. The 300 ohm HD 650 driver capsules are about $70 a piece these days.
Jul 30, 2018
Cujobob
133
Jul 31, 2018
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The 6XX is based on a popular Sennheiser model and they could get away with a higher price, plus it came with a nicer case. There may be a more expensive driver coil, but I doubt there's much of a difference in driver cost when manufacturing. (drivers tend to be very inexpensive when you mass produce them)
If you have a super popular item you can sell for a discount, why would you not make as much profit on it as you could? That's just how businesses operate. The HD58X was a totally new model that was even different from the prototype in major ways. It didn't have years of hype around it and that's the biggest reason the price is lower - the market wouldn't be there at $200 for a product people are unsure about and don't already love.
Jul 31, 2018
WiHHi_Z3_PuX
48
Aug 1, 2018
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yeah, I have both and so far 6XX wins. seems like it is more resolving and retrieves more detail.
58X has a slightly different sound signature - bass slightly more elevated etc., but if you want better bass you are better off with Beyerdynamic. idk, maybe 58X will grow on me later on...
Aug 1, 2018
RockyMountains
462
Aug 2, 2018
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This is going to depend heavily on the rest of your audio chain. Will everyone have a seriously high quality DAC and amp that will take advantage of the additional resolution of the 6XX? Most don't, so the difference is just down to FR preferences.
Aug 2, 2018
Doges
25
Aug 2, 2018
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It would be a Fiio Q5 at best.
Saving up for that dac/amp and it has to be portable, would it drive the HD6XX enough? Probably not to the fullest, but from 1-100% do you think it might drive it 70% of the way or not even?
Q5 balanced output power is ~440mW at 32 ohms if I'm not mistaken, but I'm quite new and don't know the other factors that go into "driving" a pair of headphones besides mW output. I think there are other variables such as wattage or something...
If you or anyone more knowledgeable than I can elaborate it would be great.
Aug 2, 2018
RockyMountains
462
Aug 2, 2018
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I have no experience with portable DAC/amp units (I listen at home) so can't comment on a Fiio.
The strength of the 6XX is that it's supposed to scale better with higher end gear... and by higher end, people seem to be talking about $1000+ non-portable chains. It certainly scales when moving from my a Fulla 2 to a Massdrop CTH to an Eddie Current.
When it comes to raw power figures, I think these are not necessarily all that useful. From a simple loudness perspective, even an Fulla running of USB is plenty loud enough.
I don't have a 58X to compare to my 6XX, nor do I intend to get the 58X, as they would probably be too similar. But were I starting from scratch, and were I not intending to go past DACs or amps that cost a grand apiece, I'd be quite willing to buy either headphone. When I read of people with more experience in headphones, with better tuned chains than mine preferring the 58X for frequency response reasons, I believe them. After all, frequency response really is down to personal preference.
Aug 2, 2018
jaydunndiddit
2614
Aug 2, 2018
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It's not wholly about the power for the 6XX, but about voltage. The 6XX is more demanding of a good dose of voltage compared to many other headphones. To avoid clipping and to really make sure you're pushing them properly, you would w ant at least 3.56Vrms + a little more for headroom. The Fiio Q5 running balanced would be really pushing that little amp. The other issue is the 6XX has some big impedance (up to 500 ohm) and voltage swings that the Fiio wouldn't be able to keep up with that would affect the low end of the 6XX. While the Q5 will get the 6XX loud, it won't be of the best quality as the headphones aren't being pushed to their intended limit.
I've listened to the 58X and 6XX balanced and single ended out of an iFi Pro iCAN (14W @ 16ohms balanced) and would still pick the 58X over the 6XX due to it's speed. The 6XX has more resolution, but is still just too slow with transients and everything just sounds smoothed over by comparison. The 58X is overall more lively and has the better extension on the low end. Even more amazing is that it also has the 6XX beat out in distortion across a fair amount of the spectrum. With all that said, it will all boil down to genre of music and personal preference. For me, the 6XX is still too genre specific and the 58X is much more genre agnostic. If all I listened to was classic and rock, the 6XX would be a clear winner. But if your taste is eclectic and more varied, the 58X is the better contender, overall.
Aug 2, 2018
Senpai-sama
84
Aug 2, 2018
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What is the primary way you sell your gear? I am just getting into audio and I need to sell some stuff but I am not sure how to do it effectively.
Aug 2, 2018
RiflemanFirst
647
Aug 2, 2018
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Head-Fi sale/trade forums or Craigslist usually. Just be wary of scammers, especially on Craigslist. If something seems off about a buyer it probably is.
Aug 2, 2018
AndroidClone
2
Aug 2, 2018
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If your buying these headphones the dac money is an afterthought.
Aug 2, 2018
Doges
25
Aug 2, 2018
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Amazing write up, thanks.
I still can't believe lots of people such as you prefer the 58XJ. Never in my wildest dreams would I imagine people praising and preferring a cheaper Sennheiser over the legendary status of the 6XXs.
Aug 2, 2018
CosmicBeing
16
Aug 2, 2018
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Yes you are right the 6xx do what they are advertise to do and that's being a great reference headset. For some that would equate to being laid back. But if you prefer more color than the 58x is for you. Question what do you use to drive the 6xx that makes a big difference with 300 ohms ?
Aug 2, 2018
CosmicBeing
16
Aug 2, 2018
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Why do you think beats solo fly off the shelf ,lol some ppl like the engineer of the headset determining the sound quality and not the musician. Or they dont have the right setup to drive them. I first used a fulla 2 to drive them and that was awesome compared to my pc on board dac/amp. But then I heard them on the schiit stack and mind blown. The 5xx sounds brighter on a pc or smart phone. But have nothing on the 6xx in my opinion but sound is subjective
Aug 2, 2018
RockyMountains
462
Aug 3, 2018
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AndroidClone RockyMountainsIf your buying these headphones the dac money is an afterthought.
Why would you think that? My (cheap!) DAC costs more than the phones. Same with a lot of other Senn owners. Not everyone is trying to drive their headphones out of their PC audio port.
Aug 3, 2018
jaydunndiddit
2614
Aug 3, 2018
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Well there is a lot of hype behind the 6XX. But, all of the HD6 fmaily have more in common than what they don't. Many prefer the HD600 over the 650/6XX. Same with the 580. Some love their 660s and others prefer the 58X. It's not saying the 6XX isn't a good heaphone but for personal preferences, folks like a similar model more than the other.
Aug 3, 2018
jahmin
14
Aug 3, 2018
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Now I know the 598's are not the same as 58X, but just adding some add'l feedback. I've used the HD598 pretty much daily for almost 2 years. They a wonderful neutral sound, comfortable, and they don't take a lot to drive them. Been using the newly received HD6XX and they are superior in my opinion. I've paired them with a Soundblaster E5 DAC/AMP: for amplification (obviously) but also to get quality mic capability for conference calls. Switched to high gain, and holy cow the XX's come alive in a way the 598's simply can't. I've done back to back testing with a variety of genres. To sum it up, I'm happy with the "Sennheiser Sound", but you really need an amp to drive the HD6XX or your wasting $$.
Aug 3, 2018
jaydunndiddit
2614
Aug 3, 2018
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I use an iFi nano BL, iFi Pro iCAN (balanced), Fiio A3/A5/E11, and Massdrop CTH. The Pro iCAN is easily the most powerful and I ran the 58X/6XX balanced and switched between the units SS and tube stages. I typically use the nano BL as my DAC for any of my amps.
I also wouldn't say the 58X "colors" the sound any more than the 6XX. Their FR is damn near identical. However, the 58X has a better command of transients and is a bit more forward in vocals with a few dB increase in the low-end. Most would state the HD 600 is more reference and neutral over the smoothed over 6XX and I'd have to agree with them. And despite that, I still prefer the 600 over the 6XX and the 58X over both. I haven't heard the 660s so I can't lump that one in but even with the HD 800 being technically superior to the entire HD6 family, it would rank pretty low for my preferred listening. It's way too genre specific and analytical for my taste.
Aug 3, 2018
rdodev
605
Aug 3, 2018
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Same experience, I've had me HD598SE for nearly 2 years and absolutely delighted by their performance, but the nuance, detail retrieval and airiness of the HD6XX is objectively superior. Not to say the 598s or the 58XJ aren't a great value, but feel there's a bandwagon to undermine the worth of the 6XX .
Aug 3, 2018
jaydunndiddit
2614
Aug 3, 2018
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I really wouldn't call it bandwagon-ing. I think many that have the 6XX here haven't heard a lot of other sets and this was their first intro into "HiFi." From the day I got them, I have been consistently underwhelmed with the 6XX. Even then, I preferred (and still do) the HE4XX to them. When I got the Elex, it was even more clear. The 6XX is a fine tool albeit very dedicated to a niche. Much like the HD 800. After having these two headphones hyped up into the stratosphere, when I finally had some seat time with them and some TOTL equipment, while good, they were not at the level people claim to be. At least for me, personally and the music I sampled. Same thing happened when I had the Campfire Andromeda for a short while. People will go blue in-the-face screaming about the greatness of this IEM and yet I was surprisingly let down by it. In comes the Campfire Vega and I was in love. Especially more so that the Vega is a single DD that bests the legendary Andromeda. I'm sure preference has a lot to do with it if anything, the over-hyping of the 6XX is real. Hell, there are still plenty of us old Sennheiser fans that prefer the HD 600 over the 650.
Aug 3, 2018
AndroidClone
2
Aug 3, 2018
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These headphones are aimed at enthusiasts, I think it's safe to say these are not a first time buyers option. They will end up as part of a collection.
Aug 3, 2018
CosmicBeing
16
Aug 3, 2018
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Hands down ,I salute you lol! I have the 598 CS and they sound what my ear woul ld say is colored. I'm not a base head and prefer a headset with a balanced outputs. It's all subjective but to my my ears the 6xx gives me that. I have only heard the 800 ar a store and my my office mate daily driver are the HD 700. The sound from those cans I would prefer over my 6xx but enough to shell out the dough.
Aug 3, 2018
Jackula
1618
Aug 3, 2018
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Funny how neutral is different between person to person. In my local audiophile group, we all agree the HD650/6XX is the more neutral headphone to the HD600. Though with lower end gear the HD600 certainly sounds better and more neutral. IMO the ifi Pro iCan although a great amp, one of my favorite at that price point, I just feel the decay is too slow to make the HD6XX shine. And will need an equally fast DAC to sound their best.
The group at SBAF says many things that raises my eye brows, the only thing I've come to believe is the HD650 is the best thing since sliced bread - if you own the right gear to drive them. I know we've disagreed on the HD6XX in the past and we'll continue to disagree.
Thanks to their scalability, even a Focal Utopia is only perhaps 10-20% ahead (which is why I place the Elex at 5-10% better though I don't own one). Not everyone will be running 10k rigs with the HD6XX and for those that do, there's not much out there that's better.
Aug 3, 2018
jaydunndiddit
2614
Aug 3, 2018
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Yes. I know we'll never agree on this. And that's OK. It's not as if I think the 6XX is a bad headphone. Far from it. Just for my preferred taste and musical genres, it falls short to other sets I own. I don't think I have ever asked but what genres of music do you normally listen to? I think that is a major factor as outside of rock, classical, and acoustic, they fall a bit short. For example, the 6XX is not well suited to the blues or soul or metal.
Aug 3, 2018
Jackula
1618
Aug 3, 2018
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Ha, that's a good guess. Those are the the genres I listen to most of, along with Jazz, Folk and Country which both falls tightly in with acoustic. To be honest when I auditioned the Focals, I didn't step outside of those genres so perhaps they are actually far better for metal, soul etc. Please don't take this the wrong way, but I feel you have a lot of untapped potential with your Elex if you're using a iNano BL as your main DAC, it's not in the same class as your Pro iCan, maybe see if that friend of yours can lend you something to try ;)
Aug 3, 2018
Doges
25
Aug 5, 2018
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I'm not even Jay and that triggered me.
Let's all calm down...breathe....
Aug 5, 2018
Gregmcstein
0
Aug 5, 2018
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Yeah because a higher price always = better in the headphone world right? Can't wait to "upgrade" from my ath m40x to the m50x!
Aug 5, 2018
Jackula
1618
Aug 5, 2018
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You're a sensitive one aren't you, and nobody here is triggered except for you. That was a friendly advise from one audiophile to another, there's nothing wrong with it. Using a $200 DAC with a $1.7k amp isn't ever going to be optimal. The DAC is usually always more expensive than the amp in the same tier.
Aug 5, 2018
ProfessorPat
365
Aug 5, 2018
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To my ears, the HE4XX screamed "intro to Hifi" where the HD6XX were more of an actual step in the right direction. The 4XX has the beginnings of good things, but the bass is bland an uninteresting, despite being quick, and the top end, while being detailed, feels harsh and... grainy? I guess.
On a fairly quick setup feeding it, the 6XX isn't bad at all on faster, heavier, or more bottom heavy genres. Unless you're looking for a lot of bass, extreme extension, or super sparkly highs, which they won't do, the 6XX is great. The only complaint, and it's hardly a complaint for me, is that the low end has a bit of bloom to it. On slow gear, it smears and makes a syrupy mess. On faster gear, it lends everything a sweet tilt, which makes a darker sound into a fun one.
Is it a jack of all trades? No. It's too slow for that. And if someone is looking for a singular headphone that is fantastic at everything, I'd find it hard to recommend myself, but if someone wants to add a smooth and laid back sound to the stable, one that I felt was fully capable in any genre when called upon, the 6XX is a great choice. I find it hard to call the praise undeserved, especially given their pricing.
Aug 5, 2018
jaydunndiddit
2614
Aug 5, 2018
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Oh, no offense taken. I've never had qualms with you before in the past and there's nothing wrong with us having a difference in opinion. We all can't be the same nor do we have the same ears.
Anyhow, I have a few items on my short list: iFi Pro iDSD, Naim DAC-V1, Burson Virtuoso and Benchmark DAC3. The Naim came recommended by Focal for Focal sets so I'm leaning toward that one. Otherwise, I'm really looking at the Benchmark gear as I've heard some of their older stuff and thought it was very clean and clear.
Aug 5, 2018
jaydunndiddit
2614
Aug 5, 2018
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Again, I think the 6XX has a place but it boils down to genres of choice. While they excel at rock, acoustic, and classical, I think they fall short with anything else. They don't do well with Hip hop, soul, funk, RnB, blues, pop, metal, etc. I listen to much more of the latter and the 6XX are just not up to snuff enough compared to other sets that I own that are superior eg. the Elex.
I'm also not terribly fond of how the 6XX does with female vocals: Nina Simone, Etta James, Howlin Wolf, Big Mama Thornton, Dinah Washington, Son House, etc. the 6XX manages to suck the life out of these artists and remove the unique qualities of their voices. Same with certain instruments like Keb Mo playing the steel guitar or Booker T. on his Hammond B3 organ or Howlin Wolf on the harmonica.
With all that said, I still think the 6XX is very capable but that really boils down to what you listen to and your audio chain. As Jackula stated, these really don't take on their true character until you have them powered through some pretty expensive gear. Most of which the avaerage listener will not have. For the cost and means of use, there are better alternatives which is all I'm saying. I took a gamble on the Elex and they are my favorite pair. They're easy to drive, aren't amp picky and sound quite amazing being driven by even the most humble of setups. Throw in build quality, comfort, and their fun, dynamic and technical sound signature and you have a true sub $1k knockout.
Aug 5, 2018
ProfessorPat
365
Aug 5, 2018
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I can definitely see how you’d feel that way about them. I’ll easily admit they‘re not perfect (pretty far from that title), and I have things that I lean more toward. Still, I wouldn’t steer many away from them unless they had no gear remotely capable of feeding it, or were considering higher up the food chain already, but you’re right in saying they’re not for everyone, even if you do have gear for them to shine.
But, that’s the beauty of music. Everyone has different ears and different tastes, and I’ve yet to find something to convince me to only own one option.
Aug 5, 2018
Jackula
1618
Aug 5, 2018
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That's a list of reputable and very different set of DACs. Naim is the same company as Focal, I've never liked their stuff, always found them too harsh when paired with Focal gear, things could've changed since Focal took them over.
The Burson is a standout, it has that typical Australian sound. Clean, controlled, laidback and neutral-warm. It's a great DAC with equally good integrated amp, but you would only be using half of it since the amp side is a step below the ifi Pro iCan. The iDSD will be a great match I think, again I feel the amp side is such a waste.
Don't get me started, I've never liked the Benchmark. But I've since been convinced we seem to have almost opposite tastes ;) so don't go with what I would've considered at similar price points - Holo Spring, Metrum Amethyst, Audio-GD R2R1, or a Chord Qutest if you're not into R2R.
Aug 5, 2018
jaydunndiddit
2614
Aug 7, 2018
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Of all you mentioned, the Chord would suit me the best. I have heard the Mojo and like its sound and quality (as well as portability). After doing some reading on the Qutest, it sounds like a good piece of kit. However, I think I am going to try and stick with a matching chassis and go with the Pro iDSD. It honestly has everything I need and want. I've been reading about some firmware hiccups but once those are ironed out, I think that's what I've officially settled on. Except for my Senn's, all of my cans are relatively easy to drive so I think it's amp should be capable enough despite that being the weakest link.
Aug 7, 2018
Jackula
1618
Aug 8, 2018
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I think you'll be very happy with the iDSD, it has all the features of the Pro iCan, the same sound just less power. I've never listened to the iDSD, it's just what I've been told by ifi reps. You'll just need a 1/10 2.5 to 4-pin XLR adapter for all your balanced cables, Ursine.Audio can make one but you'll need to email him about it, his workmanship is the best among custom cable builders.
The only reason I don't own a Qutest is I prefer R2R DACs. AMR (ifi's parent company) makes one of my all time favorite DACs, the DP-777. What I like about the Qutest is it only costs a fraction of the DP-777 and performs more or less on par, and it's one of Chord's only "no frills" DAC - I wish the same no frills DAC existed for Chord DAVE, I'm hoping in a few more years... It could change my mind about R2R.
Aug 8, 2018
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