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Could someone help me please? I would like to buy an amplifier priced around 150€ and i would like to know if the Schiit Vali 2 or Magni 3 will work with them
I have a magni 3 and it pairs great with the HD58X as well as the HE4xx. It's a good clean sounding amplifier. Works well with almost anything. Low gain for easy to drive headphones and High Gain for everything else. If you don't have a DAC I would recommend the topping D30.
I concur. The Magni 3 is a good starter amp, and unless pursuing a different sound, you will be happy for years. It is quite sharp compared to my tube amp or audio gd R2R-11, but since the 6xx is dark, it will not be piercing.
It is small but very powerful and runs power hungry cans like 4xx well too.
I have the Magni 3 and only does well with headphones with low impedance and high sensitivity. However, if you any pair of cans that have 100+ Ohms input impedance the magni 3 just cannot drive them. More concretely it's pretty dismal for the HD6XX (although these Jubilee here should work great). So if all the headphone you plan to buy for the foreseeable future are low impedance (<50 Ohm) Magni will work great. However, If you plan to test the waters of the HD6XX or 700s or 800s (or most BayerDynamics) I suggest Valhalla 2 as baseline (although there are a number of great amps in this price rage).
Seems a lil strange, since my 6XX need less than half to get to painful volumes.
(Schiit stack is now retired due to my preference for the R2R-11)
The input impedance of the 6XX is just too much for the Magni 3 to overcome (even in high gain setting). My Feliks Echo,however, drives them nicely. Spend most of the time at around 10 o'clock and dial to 11 o'clock only when there's a particular song I like to blast out. Anything above that and it gets into dangerous auditory territory.
What would you recommend me? I was planning on buying an AMP for arround 100€ and buy a DAC later on since i have heard that the Macbook DACs aren‘t that bad.
And yes, i was also planning on buying headphones with more impendence sometime in the future.
ps. sry for grammar and spelling errors
the o2 amp is pretty good. I have the o2 now and it gets plenty loud. In the past ive used a fiio e10k and thats also been loud enough for me. (less than 1/2 a turn for listening to for me before its too loud).
For 100 your not going to find a better amp than the Magni 3.There are better more powerful amps but they start at twice the price!It will drive almost any headphone comfortabley.Unless you plan on getting Fostex t50rp(any tx0rp).I would not worry.If you are looking to get into more expensive gear what I would do(did do) is start out with the FX Audio DACx6
amp/dac.It is 64$ on Amazon.It has a very good DAC and a so-so amp.After a few months you can upgrade the amp and use the FX x6 as the DAC.It will drive the HD 58X but you will not have much headroom and the bass may distort at very high volumes.Then you can get a better DAC and us the FX-x6 on other gear or as backup.
As Joeb said below, at the price you can't beat the Magni, however, if you are planning for upgrades down the path, I'd suggest a DAC/AMP combo . For about $150 you get both and will drive the Jubilee quite nicely plus is always good to have a dedicated DAC. Then you can save and make the jump to the $300-400 price range.
Wait the magni 3 can't drive the 6XX? I use the fulla 2 and it drives it perfectly fine. I rarely go past 9/10 o clock.
Nope. 300 Ohm impedance is too much for it. High gain mode and pushed the dial to 3 o'clock to actually feel the kick. Also there's a ginormous difference between 'drive' and actually *drive*. Driving is not merely making it sound, but pushing the headphone to their best.
Oh well, in this case, I was just talking about enough power to get a decent listening level. I know the fulla 2 can't bring out the full capabilities of the 6xx but it's all I was able to afford at the time. I'm good with just a decent listening level until I can afford a better amp.
That’s surprising as my Magni 2 Ultra drives my HD650’s great. Did something change in the tech between the Magni 2 Ultra and Magni 3?
The 650s have 2 or 3 different impedance, it's possible you have the lowest impedance version.
The Magni 3 is actually VERY powerful..
Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 3W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 2W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 1.3W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 430mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 230mW RMS per channel
Yes, look at the output power at 300 Ohms. It's less than 1/6 of that at 16 Ohms. The 6XX are 300 Ohm cans.
I have an aune x1s that is rated at about 200mW per channel and it pushes the 6XX's just fine.. 430mW PC is more than you will ever need for a 300ohm hp..
You are the first person I have ever heard say that the magni can't drive a 300ohm headphone.. That goes for the magni 1, 2 or 3..
Dude it simply cannot. You can throw numbers all you want, but fact is my Magni 3 is dismal with higher impedance headphones. It does *very well* with all my other cans 80 Ohm or less. Barely pushes enough juice at 3 o'clock on hi-gain mode. Same with Bayer Dynamic 770 at 250 Ohm.
You might have a defective amp, cause as Micousi says, you're the 1st person ever that I've seen say the magnis are underpowered for the 6xx. My magnis push even the 4xx fine... and the 4xx definitely needs more power than the 6xx.
Sounds like you may have a lemon dude..
Mine are rated at 300ohms. I wonder if the tech changed between the Magni 2 Ultra and Magni 3?
Supposedly more power pn the magni 3s, if I remember correctly.
Yeah, I gotta agree with Micousi, you must have a defective amp because I also have never seen anyone say these can’t drive 300ohms impedience headphones.
Schiit has pretty good customer service, I’d inquire about an exchange.
I think I alluded at this a few messages ago. There's a difference between merely pushing sound and actually *driving* (i.e. when all the instruments in the stage come alive). The Magni will push sound on high-gain at 12 o'clock, but won't come alive until 3 o'clock. I literally just tried it.
Also worth mentioning the source is the Modi 2 which is different than source coming pre-amped from your PC (it comes out completely unamped).
It drives them just fine lol.
Also, 600 ohm Beyers to deafening levels. . .
You are thinking of Beyers I expect. Senn 650s are all 300 ohm.
And the Magni drives them loud...
Either you have a very low output DAC or you have a bad amp..
No, I’m talking running only off the Magni 2 from an Audio Technica LP120 with a built in Phono amp and I’m able to get great sound at 12 oclock on low gain.
I’d sincerely look into getting a replacment to be sure
Yeah, almost everyone else I've seen talking about the magni 3 said it'll push the 650s just fine. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I suppose "everybody" else hasn't auditioned with a beefier or a tube amp, because if they did they they wouldn't be saying the Magni can drive them well.
Here's the setup how I I have now.
Taking advice on amplifier euphonics from someone who doesn't know Senn 650s are only 300 ohm.
L o l. Buyer beware on thus guy!
Are there some Amp's / Dac's or combos you would recommend me? I am willing to pay around 150€ and to be honest I have no clue about all this. This is my first drop and my first new pair of better headphones and I just wanted to have a good setup :(
and @all pls stay positive i feel bad if people get in an argument because of my question :(
I am using the MacBook Pro late 2016 (pls dont hate me i had to buy it because of school) and i have heard that their included Dac's aren't that bad. I am not sure if i need one.
Unless you have exceptionally low output on your DAC, the Magni 3 has plenty of power for any headphone except maybe the HE-6. 430mW for the HD6xx will be 124dB. Well past the hearing damage range. The Valhalla 2 that you recommend actually has less power.
okay, wrong about the Valhalla 2 having less power. But still it's a lot of power you do not need. That being said, i won't argue that the Valhalla 2 is a better match for the HD 6xx, but it's not because of power availability.
Dude, if that’s what your experience with the Magni 3 is, then there is something seriously wrong with your unit or your hearing is absolutely shot.
Pairing the 6xx’s to the Magni 3, I have never gone past 11 o’clock, and my usual listening level is around 9 o’clock at high gain. I’ve got other gear, so I’ve got no reason to blindly defend the Magni 3. The Magni 3 has loads of power. I also run my 58x’s and DT770 80 ohm’s from the amp. The 6xx’s require hardly any more volume than these.
Either contact Schiit immediately for a warranty replacement, or get a hearing test done.
What are you on about? Did you miss when I said 300 Ohm like 10 times above?
I've also heard good things about built in dacs for macbooks. I'm not exactly the best person to ask for audio knowledge but the fulla 2 is good enough for me, within my budget (which at the time was $150 for a dac and amp). Since you likely don't need a dac, you can just buy the magni 3. I know a few people personally who would recommend it and know what they're talking about. I usually get my suggestions from them.
I'm not gonna say rdodev doesn't know what he's talking about. He probably is more knowledgeable than I am, on the subject at hand, but he's also the first person I've seen with this complaint. There are likely better options within that budget but, again, I'm not exactly the best person to ask.
I'm not saying and have never said the Magni isn't a great choice, for the price. There's a reason why I and many folks bought it. But having heard better amps (for an extra $300 -- which is not much in this world of hi-fi, unfortunately) both borrowed and what I own, the difference is clear. My concept of "driving a headset", is vastly different than most folks here perceive.
Driving => not volume
Driving => not just pushing sound
Driving => revealing the full stage width, depth and instruments that are otherwise "hidden in plain sound".
Yeah, never said you claimed that. Afaik, you didn't.
But while an extra 300 isn't much in the world of hi-fi, or for you, it's 300% more than the fulla 2 or magni 3.
A lot of people are just looking to get starter gear. You can upgrade when you've got the money.
:) I think you misunderstand when I said "which is not that much". It's actually a lot! What I meant you can't really buy much hi-fi with that much extra. It's a very expensive hobby.
Can i get a last suggestion from you please? Again at about 150€. it just has to be an amp because I was planning on buying a dac later in two or 3 months
btw i will just buy what you guys are recommending to me because i don't have any knowledge either
If you'd like a DAC/Amp combo in that price range the iDSD nano Blacklabel would be worth checking out. Here is a review from Innerfidelity: https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/review-ifi-nano-idsd-black-label
It drives my Senn 600/650 quite nicely, and is very mobile :)
Other option I'd suggest (but have no direct experience with) would be the Schiit Fulla.
To be honest, if it were me, I would stick with your original plan and get the Magni 3 and run it from your Macbook for the time being. You can always buy a matching Modi down the line to complete the stack later on :)
Should you want to experiment with Tube amps later on (and there's nothing wrong with that!), the Magni will have given you an excellent reference to compare to.
Don't ever feel bad for not knowing something. You asked questions and didn't mislead anyone here. I hope you enjoy whatever you end up getting :)
Victor, so, my suggestion is don't rush into things. You'll find hi-fi enthusiasts are very opinionated and most of it is very experience-based and biased. Magnis are always going to be there as are any other recommendations we could give you. Get these cans for now, and try them w/o an amp. Let them burn in for couple of weeks. In the meanwhile research your options in depth. Check the forums, head-fi, and other hi-fi enthusiast web sites. Don't be shy to google "shiit fulla review", for example. Understand what the numbers mean, and the different options you have at that price range. After all the research you might find the audio out of your mac plus something like https://www.globaldelight.com/boom/index.php is sufficient for you and save the money for later. Hi-fi isn't fad type of thing and is expensive enough that shouldn't be an impulse purchase, so take your time to learn and appreciate the wonderful nuance of it.
Completely disagree with the Magni not working with the 6xx.
Even my Fulla 2 drives them surprisingly well (not fantastic in absolute terms, but fantastic for $99 DAC/amp), and that's a cheapo USB powered device built to a silly price point. And yeah, I usually use an Eddie Current with the 6xx so I know what *drive* with special characters means.
Some amp options:
Garage 1217 Horizon III
The second two are a bit over your EUR100 budget though.
The upside of the Schiit gear is that resale value stays high, and it's easy to shift on head-fi if you ever decide to change.
I second the iFi Nano Black - excellent bit of gear, drives the 6xx suprisingly well, and sounds brilliant (have owned it for about 3 months).
would it be wrong to buy the vali 2?
You really can't go wrong with any of them. It really depends on what type of shopper, time horizon, and budget you have. If you have a strict budget and will be your last hi-fi expense for the foreseeable future, then sure go for as much amp as you can go. If you want to ease your way into this hobby, then research is the way to go and try to go as economical as possible that if at any time you spend money on gear you do not like, it won't be an expensive mistake.
I've tried the Vali 2 and I really liked it, especially with the right tube. If I was considering a cheaper hybrid amp I would certainly go for the Vali 2. But really I think I would spend a little more and go for the Massdrop x CTH
i quess i have enough time for propper research now since my package just arrived at the customs in vienna... i hate austria
There are many discussions in this thread about output power/driving power, etc.
If you're only concerned about power, then one word: emotiva. The A-100 can literally burn your headphone drivers to a crisp if you're not careful and it's in the usd230 range. I'm thinking of picking up one myself for shits and giggles on my he4xx and just ordered lcd-2.
30mW is a little conservative.
Consider a 95dB listening level, 15dB of dynamics, and you need 110dB. Consider that most amps run into their nasty range with excess distortion as they approach rated output (distortion is rarely spec'd at full output) and add 6dB or so to stay well out of there. 116dB, without accounting for the fact that the HD6XX driver spikes out to nearly 500 ohms along the way, throwing sensitivity out the window as it does it, requires almost 70mW already, per your first calculator and available specs for that driver. Add in those losses from that spike I mentioned, and you're probably aiming for close to 120dB. That's about 170mW.
Normal listening probably isn't 95dB, and you probably don't have 15dB peaks. I don't know what losses actually are here, and any headroom is better than none, so yes, that number can come down a good bit without issue, but that rough, yet fully possible example shows how far from ideal 30mW really is if you don't want to be at the upper limit of your gear.
Of course, the Magni 3 is well over double my most extreme example, so it should be hurting you with ease, but I wouldn't settle for less than about 50mW if you want to feed a HD650/6XX.
In your defense, I've watched youtube videos describing magni3 getting screechy and also needing to turn the volume nob up pretty high when just powering k7xx's efficiency and impedance range headphones. It was really peculiar to hear that given the listed power ratings. Like really really puzzling how that's the case.
My guess is that the amp simply distorts current and/or voltage way early to a minor degree (as in more so than most amps) but is still fairly okay/accurate until the amp hits the hard limit ratings. Truly a strange beast.
I stopped replying because people became super defensive even though I made clear the Magni 3 in all other circumstances/headphones I've used has done really well, it just doesn't drive the 6XX optimally, in spite of nominal spec. I don't know why this is the case. The amp isn't broken, the DAC isn't broken and sure as hell I'm not deaf. Neither are the 6XX busted as they perform really great with my FA Echo amp. I'm simply stating an empirical observation. Folks act as if I had somehow desecrated their deity.
Perhaps your choice of words to describe the amp in a misleading way at the beginning:
... only does well with headphones with low impedance and high sensitivity.
...it's pretty dismal for the HD6XX...
...input impedance of the 6XX is just too much for the Magni 3 to overcome...
These statements are much stronger arguments than your latest comment:
...it just doesn't drive the 6XX optimally..
Which I would then agree with.
What would be dismal are tube amps trying to drive planar magnetic headphones... to me, they are never future proof. (And no, nothing against tubes, just experience from various loudspeaker tube amps in my life, some less than $3K, some substantially more.)
I have the Topping DX7s and it does not drive my 6XX to satisfaction with normal connection. I am building a balanced 4 pin XLR and see if the Topping will give me a little more Juice out of that.... The 58X should be more efficient with it I hope....
It was just the way you initially came across, by being overly strong on your wording (dismal, really?) and by giving the impression that other people didn't have your experience with more expensive or tube amps so they couldn't possibly know what well driven headphones sound like.
You did tone it down quite quickly after that though, and I think people stopped piling on once you did so.
The Mr. Squid knows everything, or have you not figured out that most of his comments are negative?
That Liquid Spark and JDS Atom might be better than the Magni 3 for the same price 1/2 year later.
You are correct.A lot has changed in the last 6 months.
As a consumer it is great to have options!
I would also add the Loxjie P20 to the list of great sub $100 amps.