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SaturdayNoon
15
Sep 15, 2018
Hey, are these worth getting if I already have Sennheisder HD 558s (That I still LOVE btw)?
SothaChill
55
Sep 16, 2018
Definitely
HIFI778
651
Sep 16, 2018
These 58X use the same driver as the 660S that cost 500USD. They are a steal.
Evshrug
2736
Sep 17, 2018
These are not the same drivers as the HD 660 S. But yes, they are a great value, and a noticeable upgrade in sound quality over the HD 558! The HD 558 still has more bass, so they might be more fun in study hall or the office, but at home the HD 58X Jubilee will reveal more of the music.
SaturdayNoon
15
Sep 17, 2018
I ended up grabbing them, but what sort of drivers do they use? How similar are they to the 600 series? I keep hearing conflicting reports online.
HIFI778
651
Sep 17, 2018
They are the same drivers as the 660s just being dumped with Foam and paper and a black plastic housing on the central part of the driver. Remove the foam and the paper from the 58x and they sound like the 660s. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJUL3wuY4O8&t=32s
Though the HD 660 S and the HD 58X Jubilee are both dynamic driver designs made from our specially developed plastic, the same impedance ratings, and constructed in the same Ireland factory, they do not share a driver, and are in fact differently produced designs.
The difference may not be visible to the naked eye, but the drivers do have different performance characteristics are measurable. The impact of the foam we use is acoustically minimal... the rear foam backing is there for aesthetics, and also it improved durability for the driver in drop-tests (since the driver is mounted differently than the HD 660 S and the models that came before it). The foam between the driver and the open back does not both “reinforce bass” (reflect back bass) or “absorb treble” as Zeos Reviews suggests in the above video; Zeos Reviews even noted that the two headphones still sound different to him at the 12 minute mark of the video posted above.
SothaChill
55
Sep 18, 2018
I still think they sound similar enough to justify buying the 58X over the 660S
HIFI778
651
Sep 18, 2018
Z Reviews had the 660s connected to the more refined Aune with balanced 4 pin XLR. That may have accentuated a little the tiny difference he fund between these 2 headphones. It would have being interesting to see if switching cables and Amp would have made these 2 headphones sound identical...
Evshrug
2736
Sep 20, 2018
Well, it looks like your original and second questions were answered! I personally think they were a noticeable upgrade over my HD 599, though of course any sense of “worthwhile upgrade” is up to the individual listener. My wife prefers the $15 Koss KSC75 over all other headphone, and ... well, she wants me to stop buying more headphones, haha!
marblesarefun
15
Sep 21, 2018
The paper that is on the back of the driver, will this degrade over time and if it does will it alter or possibly destroy the sound?
HD 820, HD 800 S, HD 800, and HD 660 S dampeners are made from stainless steel. All other models have a synthetic “paper” dampener... Axel Grell’s HD 580 Jubilee from 1995 still is in perfect condition!
RyCan
138
Sep 22, 2018
Mine too 😔
Electrolite
11
Oct 1, 2018
Thanks for clarifying. I think I prefer the aesthethic of the HD58X without foam, is there any danger doing that? Dust entering that hole in the driver for example?
I know that the foam helps with drop resistance but I'm asking if there are other risks of damage in the driver without foam.
HIFI778
651
Oct 1, 2018
All other models have not foam and being selling for years and years so not problem. This was done merely to change the sound even if they keep saying did not impact much... Mmmmm it does make a difference in bass and highs.
HiHead
15
Oct 4, 2018
Shure it makes a difference in bass and highs and also in Soundstage. My Opinion is that Zeus is a honest Man but Sennheiser got something to hide! They say even Zeus is pointing out that there is still a Difference in Tonality but they did not say that he say that Difference is laughable or ridiculous. And
Z Reviews had the 660s connected to the more refined Aune with balanced 4 pin XLR. That may have accentuated a little the tiny difference he fund between these 2 headphones. It would have being interesting to see if switching cables and Amp would have made these 2 headphones sound identical...
HIFI778
651
Oct 4, 2018
Sennheiser would never admit that the 58X and the 660S are very similar in sound and exactly similar if someone removes the foam. Why should they reveal something like this??? I heard the 660S and liked it alot that is why I am a happy owner of a rebranded 660S. 😉 but... shhhhhh don't tell anyone...
HiHead
15
Oct 4, 2018
Removing the Foam is easy of course! But how can I remove the Paper without damaging the Driver. I am cowardly about this. I have got mine Today so I do not know much about the Sound. And by the way, please excuse my Bad English! I am not an English native Speaker. I am an Austrian. THX
HIFI778
651
Oct 4, 2018
Leave the paper there. They are still very similar. I actually prefere the more deep bass of the HD58X to the 660S so I left the foam in place. The highs and mids are still very present. The 58X as it is it's the best Sennheiser headphone in my opinion.
HiHead
15
Oct 4, 2018
THX! That is what I thougt. Better do not Touch the Paper. I will Report in a few days if I like the Sound Signature more with or without the Foam.
HiHead
15
Oct 4, 2018
That is also my Opinion (the Thruth!?!)! I will not tell anybody but right now so many people know that and tell there Friends and will write that in Social Networks.
So again, confirming here, the HD58X and HD660S are not the same headphone. Z's review is nice, they're close, but they're different drivers tuned with different goals.
HiHead
15
Oct 5, 2018
Where is the Confirmation?
Sennheiser and myself publicly stating they're different. You're welcome to buy both, take them apart, and compare the components for yourself if you dont believe confirmation provided by all parties involved with creating this product.
HiHead
15
Oct 5, 2018
O.K So you are from Massdrop or from Sennheiser or what? So you have been involved with creating this product ? O.K . Congratulations! This is a great Product! I have a lot preety good Denon,s, AKG,s, B&O,s, Beyerdynamics, Sonus Faber, Onkyo,s, Phillips and so on. But this is the Best Open Back I have by far.
Yup, I'm the Head of Collaborations at Massdrop (my turqiuse outline indicates Massdrop staff) and a Co-Founder for the company. The Sennnheiser account posting in this thread is official Sennheiser (the pink outline indicates an official partner account).
Glad you like the product, thanks for your support!
Evshrug
2736
Oct 8, 2018
I just got to hear the HD 660 S at CanJam RMAF (today is actually my last day visiting Denver Colorado), and it actually surprised me to hear again how the driver sounds more crisp and agile. The HD 660 S and HD 58X Jubilee May have a similar frequency response that could be modded for similar frequency response (because they are similar in that respect already), but the technical performance of the HD 660 S is noticeably better. Just like the HD 58X is noticeably better than the HD 558 that the OP asked about... each model is a step up.
HiHead
15
Oct 8, 2018
That is your Opinion! I cannot say how it is, because I must have both at home and try them out by myself. Some People say this and others say that. When Zeus says that with taken the Foam out the HD 58X sound Difference is almost not there (loughable), than I believe him. HIFI778 say that for him the 58X is the best Sennheiser with the Foam inside. I took the Foam out and I like the Sound a little bit more. it is really a small Difference but I hear it and like it. So i am Happy with my 58X so far, only the cable is a piece of (you know what!) So when the most Professionell Reviewers say that the 660S is better then the 650 and even better then the 600 which is one Class below but for example Metal571 and Zeus liked him more then the 650 and even the 700, i would say that propably for me the 58X is better then the 6XX but off course I cannot be sure!
Evshrug
2736
Oct 8, 2018
Zeos reviews: name is Stephen. the Zeos Pantera was a computer he really liked, named his channel after that. Also, his message was it sounded really close. I also like the HD 58X more than the HD 700. I have a preproduction HD 58X Jubilee, and I was at RMAF this weekend, and I’ve heard the HD 660 S several times. If you want to convince yourself that you and HiFi778 are satisfied with the HD 58X and don’t want to spend more, that’s totally fine and the kind of budget moderation that everyone needs. If you want to “make it your own” and mod the headphone... I support that too, that’s Cool. If you talk to anyone who has connections the manufacturing of these headphones, they will confirm the drivers are different and that bit of foam doesn’t make an HD 660 S cripple down into the HD 58X. It’s a fact that the HD 660 S has a faster decay, it’s my opinion that I like that better. You can match the frequency response pretty easy, the difference there is small to begin with, but you can’t easily change the decay.
marblesarefun
15
Oct 9, 2018
Thank you for your answer on the paper question! Really like these headphones. Best set I've owned since PX100's lol.
RyCan
138
Oct 10, 2018
Jealous. Would love to go to CanJam.
Evshrug
2736
Oct 10, 2018
CanJam is a special treat in most people’s budgets, but it can be great fun and a way to make friends of similar interests. If/when you do go, make sure to find out about the after-show activities like bowling! Oh, and you get to try out the latest stuff and pick gear worth saving for.
Speaking of budget, Mackie is releasing two low-budget headphones (relative to the market of good stuff), and their “top of the line” $99 closed headphone with build quality of a $60 headphone (light cheap plastic everywhere, but seems functIonal) and sound quality of a $250 headphone was really cool! Sony added 2-way bluetooth to their Walkmans (so you can connect to headphones, or you can stream music from your phone) to increase the value of their already good sounding digital audio players (DAP), Sennheiser’s HD1 wireless and HD 660 S won best in their categories, Astell & Kern launched new, slimmer, less expensive flagship DAPs and their existing KANN model won another best of show model, Redscape had a cool demo of a customizable binaural Surround DSP with head tracking, and I just saw a ton of happy, nice to talk to people from the community and the guys who designed stuff for the community.
Musicseeker
55
Mar 7, 2020
I agree 100%. the original PX100 is still the best Headphone I have ever used. and i have Tons of headphones. I think it is just a happy fluke by sennheiser. I hope they start manufacturing them again.
Evshrug
2736
Mar 8, 2020
The PX100 was the one that folded up like eyeglasses, right? They were my first Sennheisers too, and I used them into college until I wore out the foam Earpads. I didn’t throw them away and still have them somewhere... but the RadioShack foam earpads I got didn’t fit, so I never ended up refurbishing them. I find I greatly prefer Supra-aural headphones over on-ear anyway, but my wife is the opposite. By the way, I now own both an HD 58X Jubilee and an HD 660 S.
Musicseeker
55
Mar 9, 2020
I got the foam pads from Amazon. Geekria has good ones.
Evshrug
2736
Mar 9, 2020
Why thank you! I’ve been using IEMs on the go lately, but it may be fun to go back someday :) I’ll have to put a bookmark in my Headphone folder.
(Edited)
eddiezr
86
Aug 20, 2021
I lost track of who said what in this thread (adhd!) so, seeing as you are the proud and fortunate owner of both models in question, if you could kindly make a definitive and final declaration on the original query as to which one sounds better - the HD 660s, or the HD 58x Jubilee - and just how noticeable is that difference, if any, and what specifically are those possible differences in tonality, clarity, character, etc, it would be inexpressibly and profoundly appreciated. I'll eagerly await your informed, competent, authoritative edict, thus putting a desperately needed conclusion to this interminable roiling brouhaha. Ha ha! Endless thanks in advance, Ed 😉👍 P.S. I got my confused lazy ass to reread this entire thread and, of course, ultimately came upon your supremely cogent appraisal of the apparent differences in the two headphone models in question where you unambiguously state that the HD 660s is the obvious champion. You cited more rapid decay as one of the more distinctive attributes delineating the two, which I believe translates to less congestion and improved clarity; excellent and worthwhile qualities by which to assess preeminence. But, if you would be so generous, could you offer a more explicit description of the HD 660s' sonic superiority? And, perhaps most importantly, is it worth the hefty $330 premium? 🤔🤪 Again, much obliged...
(Edited)
Evshrug
2736
Aug 21, 2021
LOL! I’ve been in your place, so I’ll do my best, but please do me the kindness and understanding that I don’t know how much you would value the improvement between the two ;) The easy part is: Yes, the HD 660S is more technically proficient. Now, tally up these next statements on your personal value-o-meter: •The HD 58X has a larger lift in the sub bass than the HD 660S, which is apparent when listening because the HD 58X Jubilee bass is also “slower” (same tempo, but there is a bit more bloom and softness around each note, while the HD 660S’ bass is crisper and has less bloom). Because of the increased sub bass sensitivity on the HD 58X Jubilee, some people say the Jubilee is more “dynamic,” but in my experience, they’re just happy the bass is louder and “Dynamic” is actually defined by the contrast between quiet and loud moments (not really a headphone trait, unless the headphone somehow compressed the quietest and loudest sounds to be closer in volume, less dynamic). •Both have more treble sensitivity (more highs on the FR graph) than the HD 6XX, and so both seem more lively than the almost alcoholic HD 6XX (a bit of alliteration, but I mean the HD 6XX is relaxed and easier to listen to for a full 8-10 hour work day). However, despite highs emphasis that is similar, the HD 660S just presents the detail with more clarity and focus. •Mids are pretty classic Sennheiser on both models. Really nice timbre. It’s hard to give a lot of words when something is “right,” but you know it when you hear it, and mids are where we find our melodies and vocals so they are supremely important. You could argue that both models present the same details, but due to the HD 660S’ overall tuning, there is less masking of those details, and add to that a touch more focus in each note. •Subtle instruments or backing vocals that are harmonizing with the lead singer will pop out more on the HD 660S. •Similar fit and enclosure, the pads are interchangeable, but it’s interesting that none of the people who think they use the same drivers note that the HD 58X Jubilee’s drivers are a few millimeters smaller in diameter. •I talked to the product managers for these two headphones, Ronja Harste and Axel Grell, and they said they put acoustically transparent foam in the HD 58X Jubilee’s earcups to help visually differentiate between it and the HD 660S. Feel free to remove the foam if you really want, but it’s not a magic bullet that increases bass and decreases treble. •Most people don’t hear frequency response differences under 2 dB, and with a comparison that close people are more likely to hear differences in resonance, ringing and decay. Now, with all those points in mind, add in the data point that I feel like the HD 660S is a midway point in tuning and performance between the HD 650/6XX and the HD 800S. I think it’s totally fair to argue that each of those points are small differences in themselves, and that the HD 58X Jubilee is a competent headphone and a great value, but my personal subjective opinion after you get past the graphs and technicals is that each of those little differences add up to make all the difference. I will go so far as to say that though the HD 800 I have is amazing and my best performing headphone, it has been the HD 660S that I come back to the most for music enjoyment. Since it was released, I would have said the HD 660S was my desert island headphone if I could only have one (instead of over 25… wife says I can’t buy anymore, so now I just borrow them, LOL). Now, the HD 8XX retail edition just arrived at my door yesterday, and I haven’t really come to grips yet with its sound, but I’m very curious if it’s going to give me the soundstage and directional imaging I miss in the HD 660S and just a bit more warmth that I miss in the HD 800’s sub bass. Hopefully that held your attention. ADHD UNITIE! WITH OUR POWERS COMBINE you know, Drop It Like It’s Acid is a cool remix:
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eddiezr
86
Aug 21, 2021
I was hoping for an intensive, detail rich response, but if that's all you care to share at this time I'll have to live with it... Lol!! Thanks so much for your kind and complete reply. You have greatly calmed my restless mind, and now I'm that much more satisfied with my 58x Jubilees. They really are a fantastic all-around modern sounding, fun but refined, high performing, comfortable, dependable, trusty tool in my audiophile arsenal. I really enjoy their "blooming" sub bass and civilized trebles. I did compare them to the HD800 which I found to be too analytical for my tastes, but haven't yet sampled the 800s which I believe offers a slightly more relaxed profile. I much preferred the Focal Clear which deliver astonishing transparency. It's like listening to full size speakers. I realize that those 3 premium cans are multiple tiers above my humble 58x's, but the 58x really impresses me. Perhaps the MD Elex is a worthy option? Now, if I could only settle on an end game dac...
(Edited)
Evshrug
2736
Aug 22, 2021
Glad you read it! Was more work than I thought it would be. The HD 800 is fun because it has a specialization that makes your whole song collection sound new again. However, if you’re looking that high and the HD 800 was a bit too specialized, the HD 8xx here on Drop is a more well-rounded option that will suit more genres. The whole HD 800 series has unique and better in-front-localization than most headphones, and is more speaker like that way. More like studio monitors and full range speakers than a 2.1 system with a sub. I haven’t heard the Elex.
eddiezr
86
Aug 23, 2021
Since leaving my last response I found a very good review on Headphones.com comparing the 58x Jubilee and the Elex, the gist of which is that they have very similar sound profiles with the Elex delivering more more detail and clarity and also being better at higher volumes where the 58x began to get congested and muddy. But, as he normally prefers to listen at lower volumes (less than 75dbs), the 58x offers a more full and fun experience and so he finds himself reaching for them much more often then the Elex. Of course, the Elex features far superior construction, materiels and aesthetics, but at nearly triple the price of the 58x it's a little hard to justify. Finally, he said the 58x is notably more confortable for longer listening sessions, both in terms of a more fun, relaxed sound and because they're much lighter on the head than the Elex. All the 58x's plastic. He used Stevie Ray Vaughn's "Tin Pan Alley" as an example of when the 58x actually out performed the Elex in terms of ability to produce a unified, well synthesized and cohesive sound that more faithfully delivers the thrilling dynamics of the compostion. More emotionally potent. Since that music is squarely in the sweet spot of my all time favorites I trust his asessment. The Elex he admires for its abilty to bring new life to recordings he's heard many times before with its deeper retreival of detail and abilty to reveal previously unheard elements. I get that, but I'm really not that fanatical about clinical listening. At least not yet. As far as the Elex's transperency and ability to sound as though they're not headphones but more so actual full size speakers in the room--a quality for which Focal headphones are celebrated--he casually mentions it but doesn't rant & rave. When I tested the Clears I was stunned by their "full size speaker" like presence. Perhaps the Elex is lacking this attribute to a certain degree. If so, that would be a deal breaker since that phenomenal effect is Focal's greatest achievement and their key attraction for me. I'm just gonna hafta look for a used pair of Elex and do my own test. And if it fails then on to the 8xx. Fun!
(Edited)
Evshrug
2736
Aug 28, 2021
I don’t have the insider story, but I believe the Elex is a “Drop x Focal Elear X,” shortened as “Elex” like the HD 58X, HE 4XX, and AKG K7XX. So, I would expect the Elex to be like an Elear but retuned to a sound profile requested by Drop, more similar to the Clear. Just to add, I don’t have anything against the HD 58X Jubilee. Like I said, it has more bass than the HD 600 series, and it’s quite pleasant to listen to and easy to drive. Also, pretty affordable. As we transition from isolation to hybrid downtown office/WFH, I could see the HD 58X Jubilee actually being great as a headphone to enjoy while working, even in a cubicle (with decent felt/sound dampening in the walls). Sometimes you don’t want to completely block out everything with noise cancelling headphones; just add a soundtrack to your life. 🤷‍♂️
Methos2
3
Nov 18, 2021
Flat out amazing assessment!
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