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Al0922
9
Sep 22, 2019
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Hi guys~ I just purchased HD58X few weeks ago. I have ear fatigue after listening musics in iTunes for 30 mins. Will getting an amp/dac help on this issue? Currently I just plugged it directly in my Gigabytes H370N WIFI audio out. The volume can get loud even it is set to 4/100 in Windows Volume and with the volume in apps set to max. Just FYI, I burned them in with frequency sweep, pink noise, and white noise for more than 100 hours.
Michael-Q
243
Sep 25, 2019
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Al0922Perhaps someone else knows better, glancing at the Gigabyte H320N WIFI rear hd audio motherboard highlights and given the 58x isn't super hard to drive, the benefits of an amp/dac will be less. You could try reducing the treble -as that's where a lot of it comes from.
For me the physical pressure of the headphone seemed to amplify fatigue - Like I got the sense I no longer wanted to use them after a short duration. Stretching the headband out using a stack of books/magazines overnight helped - slowly increasing the stack size each night until it felt right. You don't want to over stretch it.
(Edited)
phoenixsong
1055
Sep 25, 2019
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Al0922Sounds like a cheap inbuilt amp. Adjusting the device settings will help a tiny little bit (like matching the playing bit depth and rate to that of your source files, unselecting enable audio enhancements etc), but you should probably consider getting an affordable external amp and dac combo
Michael-Q
243
Sep 26, 2019
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Al0922So it has been bothering me that 4/100 in Windows is Loud. With other apps/youtube, is 4/100 also loud? Does it get progressively louder as you go to 6/100, 8/100, 25/100 ect.?
580X isn't hard to drive, but it also isn't that easy to drive. It got me thinking that maybe your on board audio is defective. And if that's the case, a dac/amp combo most definitely make a difference. 4/100 should be pretty damn quiet even when I use sensitive headphones like akg 553 114dB/V or something (vs senn 58x at 104 dB/V ). The only way that would make sense and not have a defective onboard audio is if itunes takes over the master volume - hence the test of 6/100, 8/100, ect. and using other apps like youtube.
(Edited)
Baby_boy_Belcher
39
Sep 26, 2019
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Al0922That sounds like a windows driver issue, it happens to me sometimes when i enable my laptop saundcard (which i always keep disabled so sound is always going to external DAC so if i unplug by mistake it wont go to the speakers.) When it happens to me the sound does get very loud even at 5% but its extremely garbage sound almost hollow with horrible bass, it goes away when i restart my PC. But if its always like that for you then its a soundcard issue. you can check by plugging the headphones to a phone or another device if the sound improves then faulty soundcard.
Al0922
9
Sep 28, 2019
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Michael-QHi Michael, thanks for your input.
First, my room is very quite. No fan no AC. Around 30-40 dB.
It is definitely not as loud, but still comfortably audible when I used it to watch movies/listen to songs on YouTube at 2/100. Playing song in iTunes is louder than any sounds played in other apps/software. This is weird.
This MB comes with a "smart amp" feature. When I plug my speakers into the MB directly at "level 3 amp". It definitely boosts up the volume as well as the bass of my 2.1 speakers system. I doubt the front panel audio jack, which I normally plug it in, will inherent the smart amp from the MB though. The description is too vague on Gigabyte's site and I have no luck in finding any amp info on this MB.
I also plugged this into my MBP 2012 and it is audible at less than 10/100, while on my iPhone needs to be at least 50/100.
I agreed with you that the clamp force is making it less comfortable to wear for a long period of time. I have Bose QC20, but the in ear is just as uncomfortable plus the sound quality can't match HD58x.
I was hoping a good DAC/Amp will rectify this problem, since I really like this headphones. But right now, I don't dare to wear it for too long worrying that it will damage my hearing lol.
*** Just FYI, if I set the volume to around 30/100. It's like a mini speakers and I can hear everything clearly just a foot away from the headphone. Don't know if this is good or bad.
(Edited)
Al0922
9
Sep 28, 2019
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phoenixsongI did disable all windows audio enhancement. Do you have any good DAC/Amp combo to recommend? I was looking into some USB power one like Fiio K3, E10K, and Fulla. I'm trying to reduce the wires on my desk.
Al0922
9
Sep 28, 2019
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Baby_boy_BelcherI tried it on my MacBook Pro 2012. It is audible at 2/10, and 4/10 when listening to Music, and 6-10 in movies depending on how loud is the speech. It takes longer for me to feel uncomfortable though comparing to listening songs on my desktop. Thus I was wondering to get an external DAC/Amp for my setup will help. Maybe my hearing is just too sensitive LOL. Do you have any good external DAC/Amp to recommend? Thank you.
phoenixsong
1055
Sep 28, 2019
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Al0922For usb-powered dac+amp combos the options will be a little limited- usually decent amps draw upon mains power. However, the Centrance DacPort HD might be sufficient for your needs
Baby_boy_Belcher
39
Sep 28, 2019
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Al0922i recommend either the fiio Q1 Mk2 or the earstudio es100 both are portable dac/amps both have single and balanced output and can be used with a PC. If your 58x's are only for home use then the best choice is the JDS Atom with either a topping d10 or a JDS Ol Dac
also, congratulations on your super ears i'm jealous
(Edited)
Al0922
9
Sep 28, 2019
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Baby_boy_BelcherLol buddy~ I definitely will look into them~ If this still persists, it may as well mean that I'm not suitable to wear headphones haha~ I may have to go with speakers system~ The experience is different though.
Baby_boy_Belcher
39
Sep 28, 2019
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Al0922your original question is a little unclear, I thought you had a problem with your volume. What a Dac/Amp does is to make the headphones sound clearer at any volume. The dac decodes the song and plays it at a clean low volume, the amp part amplifies that signal into any volume you want. So it's mostly for clarity if you are getting a fatigue from either the treble or bass getting a dac/amp will probably not help since different brands might emphasize different frequencies. For that you can use a good equalizer such as "equalizer APO" to normalize the sound to something less fatiguing. If it's a physical fatigue like your head or around the ears hurting then it's normal for this headphones because they are very tight at first but overtime they relax and become very comfortable. Lastly, if all headphones cause you fatigue then it might be a common ear fatigue from prolonged sound, some people have that problem it just sucks more for someone who likes listening to music.
Al0922
9
Sep 29, 2019
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Baby_boy_BelcherI afraid that's the case for me LOL~ Can't wear headphone~ Too bad that I have to give up the unique imaging experience :(
raansire7
1507
Oct 1, 2019
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Al0922I don't want to portray myself as an elitist audio snob, but to help out with my experience: you're missing out on their good qualities if you underpower them. They will get loud enough on smartphones and headphone outputs to cause hearing damage, but they will not sing. The more clean power you give them, the nicer they will sound. There's no escape from that reality.
You can quickly cook white rice in an electric rice cooker and it will taste fine, but as a person living in a Caribbean island, there's a reason why the general population's preference is and has always been to cook it slowly in a caldero (cauldron) over a stove fire, as it will yield more flavor and a better texture. Same with headphone outputs: not all amplification is the same, and volume levels do not equal good power.
EDIT: Another benefit of clean power is that you will be able to listen to them louder to appreciate the quieter nuances in songs, but your ears will not be bothered. If there is distorted, dirty power, they will bother your ears at less volume and you will feel that fatigue.
(Edited)
raansire7
1507
Oct 3, 2019
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Al0922You're welcome, friend. Honestly, any reputable amp and DAC would do the trick with them. Now, in my experience, my Schiit Vali 2 and Modi Multibit make them sing! But they sounded awesome with my Audient iD14, too.
If you want to test the waters first, for $75, the Cambridge Audio DacMagic XS v2 sounds really good and has enough power. I didn't test it with the Jubilees when I had it, because back then I hadn't bought them yet, but I did use it with my beyerdynamic T90 (250 ohm) and they sounded punchy and wide.
The Jubilees are 150 ohm and on the same volume setting, they sound louder than my 65 ohm Shure SRH1840, so I wouldn't doubt for a second that the DacMagic XS v2 are plenty for them.
Michael-Q
243
Oct 3, 2019
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Al0922Personally I'd avoid tube and hybrid amps for your first purchase (like the Schiit Vali 2). It's possible that's the sound you want but ultimately it's a "colored" version of whatever you're playing. Tube/hybrid is a great option for a 2nd amp though.
Many would agree the JDS Labs Atom amp is very good for its price at $100+shipping. A topping D10 DAC (can be bought here on drop) would be sufficient sound wise but you may want other dac's with different features like bluetooth or more line out options. An all in one could be the Topping DX3Pro Version 2 (also sold on drop). There's little reason (sound wise) to go more expensive than what I listed and performance typically drops significantly with other options below these prices. As in, expect to spend around $200 or don't buy anything at all in my opinion.
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Al0922
9
Oct 4, 2019
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raansire7Hi Raan, exactly like what you said. The Jubilee sounds louder at the same volume setting compared to my Bose QC20 which is not even an "audiophile" headphone and has much lower impedance. That's what make me think of I don't need an amp.
I would definitely have a look on that DacMagic. Although I'm mostly using them at home, I tried to keep my desk free of wires. Thanks
Michael-Q
243
Oct 4, 2019
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Al0922Disclaimer: What we hear is subjective and our brain does all kinds of goofy things to fill in the gaps. So you may get a lot of vastly different responses answering your question. I'll state what I believe to be true. In short, it's personal preference concerning amps but it might help to have an idea why there is a difference. In many cases, reviewers hear things that make no logical sense but in other cases important. Identifying which is which will hopefully be easier after reading the following.
DACs are DACs and they're either doing their job or not. After a threshold, they become transparent so there's no such thing really to pair a DAC with a headphone. There are some differences in the high pass filter they use but most people won't hear the differences that happen around 18500 Hz and above (I can only hear up to like 17500Hz right now and as we age this number decreases).
Amps are different though. It would be exhaustive to list all the finer details and I probably don't know everything important. A big concern would be output impedance. Tube amplifiers typically have high output impedance (relatively speaking). Headphones with high impedance are less affected by this. So when you hear the 6xx is a great pairing with tube amp xyz there's some truth to it, but I'd argue more that the amp just sounds off/wrong when using low impedance headphones. There's also the issue of the amp's output impedance using up all the power before delivering it to low impedance headphones. Once again, the power issue doesn't really affect high impedance headphones because most of the power gets delivered. (edit: I should also note that sometimes how the high output impedance of an amp affects the headphone could be desirable. It can can change the bass,mid-range, and treble to more or less desirable amounts. Some people like the "new" frequency response the 6xx gets with high output impedance amps.)
Generally speaking you want to find an amp with low output impedance (less than 1 ohm) so that all headphones sound true and correct. Non-tube amps also can have high output impedance. Just because a headphone has low impedance doesn't mean it'll sound wrong with an amp with high output impedance. The reason is mathy and hard to explain but if the headphones impedance doesn't vary with frequency there shouldn't be an issue with high impedance at the output of amps other than wasted power losses.
Lastly, I'll quickly mention an amp needs to be able to effortlessly power a headphone. By how much seems debatable. I mean, 1 mW of power will make the 58x sing at 98 db spl -ridiculously loud as I think you know. So when you see amps capable of putting 500 mW into 150 ohms it seems absolutely ludicrous. The idea is you want to stay far away from the distortion areas of the amp. For me, I consider amps to be good enough if it is capable of x4 the voltage and current I'd ever want ->is capable of 16x the power I need listed in the amps specs-also note that this x4 safety margin is simply just what my gut feeling says I should get and not a fact. The more power an amp is capable of usually the better unless it is "noisy" (not clean-high distortion) to begin with.
An amp with little distortion is desirable but less related to "pairing" to headphones. It is harder to hear the noise floor distortion on less sensitive (typically higher impedance) headphones. So once again headphones like the 6xx is a good "pairing" with noisy amps - granted it's more that the headphone is less affected by the unwanted noise of the amp. The harmonic noise produced by an amp is sometimes desirable (like in the case of tube amps) but I don't know of anyone who wants to hear the noise floor of an amp.
I think those are the major things concerning pairing. I may of left out something big as I'm no expert. edit: Some amps become unstable powering low impedance headphones or perhaps better stated more stable with high impedance headphones (better pairing). A well designed amp won't do that.
(Edited)
Al0922
9
Oct 5, 2019
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Michael-QHi Michael, thank you so much. I have been seeking advice on a few sites and so far you guys here are the best. Friendly and informative. I'm glad to have you guys. I learned a lot. I'll definitely planning to get one now, since I don't want to let go my Jubilee like that. Thanks again.
raansire7
1507
Oct 5, 2019
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Al0922Gotcha! But again, volume is one thing and the bigness of the sound presentation is another. The Jubilees can get loud without an amp, but that's it. You'll get the vaster soundstage, the clearer imaging and the holographic aural image with a good amp and DAC. Music will just sound more real and outside your head; more visual even though it's audio. It's like watching a movie on DVD, which looks totally fine and acceptable, but then watching a Blu-ray of the same movie and seeing all the information missing on the DVD.
A lot of people couldn't care less about that, and it's fine. I'm not suggesting you dive deep into the audio rabbit hole, because a lot of folks go deeper than I think it's logical, but just letting you know that there is a higher level of musical enjoyment to be had with a good amp and DAC. It's just fundamental physics.
Purpose-built audio equipment just has more control over the drivers, and that translates to nuanced music reproduction. The components are made of higher-quality materials and properly combined into a good circuit that was designed intentionally to provide a superior musical experience. Everything is in the details. It's why the DAC and amps in tiny audio chipsets fit inside cellphones, but good equipment takes up space on a desk, table, rack, etc.
While I've been making music since early 2002, I never enjoyed music so much until I bought my Denon DA-300USB in early 2016, which came as a bundle with Audio Techica ATH-M70x monitor headphones. I've been deep into proper music production equipment, but was ignorant to the music consumption equipment.
I thought, "Pfff, my audio interfaces have been high-end and totally fine. What do I need this external DAC/amp for? Have I missed anything all these years without it?" Music just sounds...more musical. It's not just listening to recorded sounds coming from tiny ear speakers. :D
Sorry for the long rant, but like me, lots of people have way more expensive cans yet have realized that these have something unique about them that the pricier cans cannot touch. They just need good equipment to shine brightly. Peace!
phoenixsong
1055
Oct 5, 2019
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Al0922Hey there's one better than the Centrance DacportHD which I just found out about, called the E1DA. Measurements can be found here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads%2Freview-and-measurements-of-e1da-9038s-bal-portable-dac-amp.8424%2F&fbclid=IwAR1QbD5lW2p6rSdJj0Ck_UkEf5zGdyzfFRdseCgcc5i_mWEg58Y1FUDZby8
Al0922
9
Oct 5, 2019
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raansire7Hey Raan, no worry. I'm so glad and appreciate that someone is willing to teach and explain details to me. Up to this point, I can almost assured that it's my desktop MB that messed up my listening experience as I use Jubilee with my MBP for a day and the experience is much better. I'm still seeking around to find a suitable/ good price DAC/Amp.
Michael-Q
243
Oct 6, 2019
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phoenixsongcertainly impressive for a usb thumb dac/amp and price. The issue I see (if I'm not mistaken) is that it's balanced only output jack. Not very friendly with most consumer headphones unless you buy after market cables.
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Michael-Q
243
Oct 7, 2019
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Al0922I should have typed balanced, my bad. Anyway, normally, you have a single "hot" wire that carries the electrical signal (which eventually gets converted to sound energy by the speaker) and you have a "ground" wire to return the current (ground wire always stays at the reference voltage of 0V). With balanced output, they make use of two "hot" wires. When one wire goes high voltage, the other wire goes low. When one wire goes low, the other goes high. The result is kind of like doubling the available voltage output of the amp.
It's pretty useful trick/technique when not a lot of voltage is available like with portables (battery powered) and.. tiny usb powered amplifiers. It really doesn't add much imo for amps already powered by mains except for quadrupling the power output rating of an amp into high impedance loads (good for marketing). A lot of people will say it does much much more-perhaps it does but I haven't experience it. (edit: if you're using really long wires - especially from a dac/source going to an amp - balanced output is very useful but I don't want to get into why it is besides simply saying it removes unwanted noise picked up in the long wires)
To make use of it though you can't just plug ordinary headphones into it. They have to be balanced ready so to speak. 58x and 6xx are easily enough converted to balanced ready-but you still have to buy it. And in this case, a 2.5mm jack as well, so it's getting kind of specific.
(Edited)
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