Showing 1 of 264 conversations about:
JaleesaG
1549
Marketing Team
Sep 25, 2018
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A community member
Sep 25, 2018
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i LOVE the dragon head -- and the massdrop logo looks great in this largely linear design! great job, guys!
DisparateDan
14
Sep 25, 2018
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Yup - it looks better that way (without the “Terzuola” engraving)!
ADVcyclist
141
Sep 25, 2018
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Gotta say, I'm not very happy that Terzuola was removed from the knife. Nice to see the dragon head still there but the name of the designer deserves a place of honor on it as well. Bad form Massdrop...
edit: why does the hardware in those photos look different (cheaper) than in the photos that we were presented for purchase?!?
edit: why does the hardware in those photos look different (cheaper) than in the photos that we were presented for purchase?!?
JubilantBear
100
Sep 25, 2018
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His logo is still on the blade, I'm sure they got his permission before doing so...
Kill-Roy
71
Sep 25, 2018
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I definitely would have wanted to keep his name on the blade esp with the logo it looks naked without it! Really bummed about this. Still very excited for the knife! Imy happy massdrop continues to work with top desigoers in the knife world. I hope we get to see a full size soon from MD and BT
HSO0
49
Sep 25, 2018
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"I'm sure..." You must be kidding. There's no "trust" in the knife business. UNLESS MESSDROP provides some proof that Bob is backing this they've cheated us.
Joshuarquinn
27
Sep 25, 2018
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That is a pretty big change AFTER payment and months of waiting. Very uncool. What is the reason the changes were made and why wasn't it communicated much earlier?
NorthEye
16
Sep 25, 2018
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Where is his name on the blade? I do not see one... :( Very disappointed...
BadComrade
67
Sep 25, 2018
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Definitely bummed about this. People will Recognize the Terzuola name more so than the head... not sure it “cleaned it up“ either. I thought it looked just fine!!!
FStopFive
33
Sep 25, 2018
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Agree that the name should have been left on there. Seems very disingenuous to announce this now. This whole drop has been a poor experience for me.
Kill-Roy
71
Sep 25, 2018
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You're missing the point if a person at massdrop thought the blade would look "cleaner" with his name off the knife then he or she should have brought that info to the buyers and asked our opinion and get some feedback before saying after the knives ship o buy the way we made a change, or what would the people who purchased the knife thinķ
NorthEye
16
Sep 25, 2018
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Logo is not a name :( whole "trademark" is name + logo. See pics in inet
Steven_9610
42
Sep 25, 2018
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There was so much lack of communication on this run it’s very disappointing. I honestly would have at least liked to have been notified ahead of time of any changes to the product, plus I never recieved the Q&A email and have made sure to check spam & etc. The knife isn’t ruined without his name, but come on guys you’re better than this. Now you guys are just going to recieve so much hate on a product people invested 6+ months ahead for and last minute you tell them there’s a change? I mean honestly come on.
pedropol
35
Sep 25, 2018
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totally misrepresented the product. They should have a policy to hold shipment and have the name added. Best of all is if they can erase "massdrop" and add Terrazola. Very unfortunate bait and switch.
kennedyzero
194
Sep 25, 2018
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Oh. My. God. Calm down everyone 😂 It’s some lettering... its almost like some people buying this had no intention of using it as a tool and intended only to stare at it, obsessing endlessly over the font of the logos used.... oh wait 🙄
Larryklunk
107
Sep 25, 2018
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Yeah, would have removed the massdrop logo over dropping Terzuola from the blade. That’s crazy.
Knifebuyer
24
Sep 26, 2018
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Not a great decision. Terzuola’s name is completely intertwined with his design and legacy with the custom knife making community. I’m sure you’re aware of this and I can’t say youre not being disingenuous when you say you did this to make the blade look cleaner.
Davidsh331
285
Sep 26, 2018
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NO, leave Terzuola in tact and remove Massdrop if you need to remove anything. Terzuola is what I'll remember years from now, not Massdrop. The name Terzuola has much more significance to the knife than Massdrop.
Tw12
19
Sep 26, 2018
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This is ridiculous!! False advertising. First how do we know Terzuola produced this knife and is willing to back it if he isnt willing to put his name on it! We paid for a product months ago in good faith to which you are changing withoit notification. I think everyone should be given justification from the manufacturer. Additionally I feel I was intentionally lied to by massdrop who is taking the attitude we should just deal with it and still pay full price. Insane. I won’t trust anything from massdtop again. This is like buying a Rolex in Mexico.
Magnus617
43
Sep 26, 2018
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Is it me, or does the hardware look way different too? I also agree that they should have let us vote on any changes.
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Gadgetman7
91
Sep 26, 2018
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I’m NOT happy about the name removal You have asked before you made that decision. As it stands this is somewhat of a bait and switch. You should offer refunds fir anyone that is not happy.
Evanstoner
24
Sep 26, 2018
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Yikes. This seems to be a major point of contention. I personally think it looks cool with the logo, but I definitely think this should have been communicated/discussed before sending the items out. It's almost as if they are starting to do damage control between the time that the knives are sent out, and the time that the first knife gets delivered..............and people start hitting the message boards with complaints.........which could be tomorrow.
WoodyBalto
432
Sep 26, 2018
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Wow... I would love to know the "Real Story" I can't believe that removing the designers name from the knife would not be received with harsh criticism from those that already paid for their knife. I'm guessing that something bigger and perhaps legal happened and doing this was the Best of several worse options.
Also consider the fact massdrop concealed this info from us until after the knives were shipped. They knew customers were gonna be pissed and some will try to cancel and likely still will.
Personally, I don't think I would have joined this drop if not for the Legendary makers name.
UngerRobbyt
2
Sep 26, 2018
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Not great timing on that info, but it doesn’t really change my feelings on the knife. If I was a serious collector and not a user I could see myself being upset. I like massdrop’s collaborations and own many. That said, you kinda know what you’re getting into when you order one. It’s going to take a long time to get and you’ll get something close to what you ordered initially. Still have been impressed with the products overall.
MoonStan
219
Sep 26, 2018
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What is the reason? The real reason ?
Why were we not notified about this when the decision was made?
Massdrop.... you're losing TRUST! Caution now
Why were we not notified about this when the decision was made?
Massdrop.... you're losing TRUST! Caution now
TheOldMan
13
Sep 26, 2018
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Take the Massdrop off!!
Taking the Logo off was disingenuous to say the least! Sogn me up for a class action lawsuit!!
Taking the Logo off was disingenuous to say the least! Sogn me up for a class action lawsuit!!
MoonStan
219
Sep 26, 2018
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God damn you're right! Where are the bronze accents?! Holy shit this whole thing is fishy, the knife pictured in the update better be a prototype
no-thing
11
Sep 26, 2018
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Wish the "massdrop" had been dropped as well. I don't mind "Terzuola" being dropped if the dragon head is Mr Terzuola's makers mark, will have to do some investigating.
mhwolf
65
Sep 26, 2018
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I agree BadComrade, I do not think the knife was too "busy" to remove his name. We have to tell T fans that this is one of only very few of his that only have his logo (but not hiis name). Be thankful that they did not replace his name with "Made in China."
MoonStan
219
Sep 26, 2018
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Dude, this is the Terzuola logo. There's no way MD or any other manufacturer can use it without authorization from Mr Terzuola. That's not the point, the point is: they made changes and only informed the customers after the knives were produced and shipped and that is NOT ok . This is still the same Terzuola designed knife.
JubilantBear
100
Sep 26, 2018
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Yeah that is a bigger difference, I'm hoping it's just the angle to highlight the logo made the hardware look different
JoeP
64
Sep 26, 2018
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I completely agree with UNAer. I see they didn't remove "Massdrop". When are they going to clue in that no one give a s**t about Massdrop being on their blades. However, we do care about the name of one of the greatest knife designers ever on our blades. Hey Massdrop, start designing your own knives, wait a few decades, and then maybe you will have earned the right to remove names.
LongGenericUserName
82
Sep 26, 2018
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That sure doesn't look like the hardware pictured. Can we have finished photos of all 3 in proper lighting? I'd like to see the pocket clips as well.
I bought this to support Bob's vision, not massdrop's.
I bought this to support Bob's vision, not massdrop's.
crowleykirk
166
Sep 26, 2018
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Great, the take the maker mark off and add the butt ass ugly Massdrop logo. Last knife I purchase from MD.
Omniseed
1971
Sep 26, 2018
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I love it, looks gorgeous, and I hope you never give in to the 'no logos' crowd, because they're a nice opportunity to add a little embellishment to the knife. Well done engraving is a good thing.
ETA- the bronze looking much darker than the preproduction photos is an issue for me, it's not the first knife this has happened with and it does affect the choices people make in regards to color scheme.
ETA- the bronze looking much darker than the preproduction photos is an issue for me, it's not the first knife this has happened with and it does affect the choices people make in regards to color scheme.
PatrolLeader
14
Sep 26, 2018
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Sadly, removing Mr. Terzuola's name does not give the knife a cleaner appearance,
only decreased the knife's value !
The decison is not right without buyer's consent as we don't get what we paid for.
Whiteace187
18
Sep 26, 2018
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This is not supposed to be done without letting buyers know, I purchased an item based o a picture and description you provided. And now I'm getting something different without even being told after payment was already received.
fonedork
39
Sep 26, 2018
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There’s no changing the design period, whether people vote for it or not. Changing this design after collecting orders and payment is a big big problem for you guys.
I wouldn’t have bought the knife in this picture, with the changes you just disclosed to us after shipping these out. So crazy.
ADVcyclist
141
Sep 26, 2018
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How about looking closely at the hardware changes in the photo without his name and the ones from when it was originally presented... It's not just the loss of a name (technically they could have dropped the MD name and added his in their place.) this is not an insignificant amount of money spent for what looks like many compromises and cuts in final product quality.
Magnus617
43
Sep 26, 2018
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I dont know... the pic I posted of the original listing, the hardware looks more polished, or at least just machined bronze titanium. This new pic looks more like a dark tumbled bronze. I did a double take because I thought the thumb disk looked like it was just black, then I noticed the pivot was different too.
Omniseed
1971
Sep 26, 2018
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But it still has his logo on the show side of the blade, which is a first for these collaborations I think.
I also think the hardware looks way worse than what was pictured in the initial drop, to the point that I would ask for a new set of hardware that actually looks bronze.
I also think the hardware looks way worse than what was pictured in the initial drop, to the point that I would ask for a new set of hardware that actually looks bronze.
AFRcustom
17
Sep 26, 2018
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Let me see if I got this straight.
About three months ago I commissioned a knife designed by Bob Terzuola. Built in China under a contract signed by massdro that would get inspected and approved under Bob Terzuola quality standards. I made a purchase order based on a few pictures and a pretty good and detailed description. Along the way I’ve got a couple of emails about how everything is on schedule and eventually I’ve got a confirmation number from fedex saying that the knife got shipped.
And a bit later I get another email expressing how one of the main features is missing from the blade.
That is not the knife I ordered. I’m not sure which way I’m gonna go about it but this is very unprofessional. I asume some people might be sending them back and ask for a refund. I definitely consider it.
fonedork
39
Sep 26, 2018
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They do offer refunds where the product received is not as advertised.
Thomasf14
41
Sep 26, 2018
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This is really disappointing. The Terzuola logo was great as is. If you wanted a cleaner blade you should have changed the massdrop logo and the serial number. The main reason I bought this knife was the Terzuola design.
This is my first experience with massdrop, and I was under the impression that the design was final. Changing the design, and not telling us until after you shipped it out is not a good business practice, and I will avoid massdrop in the future.
A community member
Sep 26, 2018
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How do I return this when it arrives as it isn't the product I ordered?
DBSS
217
Sep 26, 2018
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Asking the people that bought and paid for the knife about the name removal should have been step number 1 in making that decision. And why let people know after you have shipped some? You have known for ages about the change...
Secondly, the new hardware looks like balls.
Thirdly, based on that picture, the grind is thick enough to be used as a hatchet.
I have a very very strong feeling that you are going to be getting a lot of returns and a lot of unhappy or angry people based on quality of this knife.
Try being upfront with ALL changes and also making sure that the final product is of a higher value than the amount paid. That is the whole point of Massdrop. To buy a large number of things so that the quality to cost ratio is better.
In this case, I have a seriously bad feeling that this knife is going to be pretty junky compared to the amount paid.
A community member
Sep 26, 2018
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The truly baffling part is that you thought the blade was too wordy, so you kept the word massdrop on it and dropped the word Terzuola. Why does massdrop's name need to be on it in the first place? You didn't design it, you didn't make it, you just hosted a sale for it on your website. When I buy a knife from amazon they don't etch the word amazon onto it before they ship it to me. Nor does knifecenter, or bladehq, or any of the other websites that sell me knives for that matter.
genka13
19
Sep 26, 2018
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my first thought exactly was regarding the hardware, looks tarnished in the photos. better not get one that looks anything other than what the massdrop photos looked like. shame on them for not asking the buyers about the removal of the name.
drpro
15
Sep 26, 2018
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Just went to Bob's website and there are pictures showing the MD knife. One side has his name and logo, the other MD engraving.
It would be interesting if Bob knows the knife design has changed. My guess is his site is showing the prototype knifes and he hasn't seen what was produced.
DirtyDog
11
Sep 26, 2018
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Here are my 2 cents... The final design should have not been changed without letting us know way before they shipped. That would have given us time to cancel the order if it meant that much, which it does for some. The only reason I bought this is that I love Bob T and can't afford one of his customs. I am guessing that is why most of us bought them. If any of the logos should have been changed or removed it should be the Massdrop logo. I also saw that some people noticed the pivot screw looks like crap. I hope they don't in person. I am not happy about this Massdrop and I wish I would have been informed about this much sooner.
I am guessing the real reason behind the change had nothing to do with the "look" and more to do with using Bob's logo on a knife that he designed and didn't make. I think having the word "design" under the dragon head would have been a better option over removing "Terzuola" completely.
I am guessing the real reason behind the change had nothing to do with the "look" and more to do with using Bob's logo on a knife that he designed and didn't make. I think having the word "design" under the dragon head would have been a better option over removing "Terzuola" completely.
RaptorOnDRADIS
12
Sep 26, 2018
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I’m in the camp that would much rather Terzuola stayed on the blade with the dragon head. I’m disappointed at this change, but still looking forward to seeing the final product. I will certainly think twice before joining another Massdrop-made drop though.
massdrop01
782
Sep 26, 2018
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@Massdrop @JonasHeineman
1. If you guys wanted the knife to look cleaner, you should remove "Massdrop" logo instead. 2. It'd be nice to show proof of Terzuola approving this change to remove his name from the knife he designed. 3. The pivot screw looks way different from what's pictured here. It looks unfinished and covered with dirt. You guys pulled this stunt again after the Perpetua drop where the final product has cheap hardware store screw instead of the nicely machined screw shown in the drop picture. 4. Your buyers make purchase decision based on the product description here via marketing text, technical specs as well as(if not most important) the images. If you decided to make changes that could potentially alter purchase decision, it's "bait and switch". I might be nitpicking here but when your buyers are spending >$150 for a knife they are probably looking beyond basic functionality. 5. I don't see any disclaimer stating "prototype shown here, final specs/details might be changed", so it's not well understood that these are subject to change.
1. If you guys wanted the knife to look cleaner, you should remove "Massdrop" logo instead. 2. It'd be nice to show proof of Terzuola approving this change to remove his name from the knife he designed. 3. The pivot screw looks way different from what's pictured here. It looks unfinished and covered with dirt. You guys pulled this stunt again after the Perpetua drop where the final product has cheap hardware store screw instead of the nicely machined screw shown in the drop picture. 4. Your buyers make purchase decision based on the product description here via marketing text, technical specs as well as(if not most important) the images. If you decided to make changes that could potentially alter purchase decision, it's "bait and switch". I might be nitpicking here but when your buyers are spending >$150 for a knife they are probably looking beyond basic functionality. 5. I don't see any disclaimer stating "prototype shown here, final specs/details might be changed", so it's not well understood that these are subject to change.
kennedyzero
194
Sep 26, 2018
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I don’t think you can call what has been changed “compromises or cuts.” Choosing not to put the name on the knife is just a design choice, albeit one you are entitled to dislike, I don‘t mind either way.
And it’s hard to tell from the picture here, but it looks like they actually added and acid or stone wash to the finish of the bronze anodized hardware, which would be an extra step, not a cut.
You are entitled to rage about this if that’s how you want to spend your time and energy, but I’m going to get the knife first, and see if it’s nicely done, and likely it will be if the previous collabs with WE and MD are any indication. I definitely care about the quality of products that I purchase, however I think a lot of the vitriol being spewed here is just internet anger for internet anger’s sake 🤷♂️ I’m just trying to bring a little balance.
massdrop01
782
Sep 26, 2018
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Also makes me wonder why unlike other drops this one has no update or WIP pictures, and we only get this update after the product is shipped?
Was Massdrop already aware of the changes(maybe unintentionally made during the manufacturing?) and decided to just "go with it" while sending out pre-emptive damage control post in the form of update before people start receiving their knives?
Sorry i might be throwing far-fetched conspiracy theories here. But the timing of this comm is peculiar, not to mention the SNAFU with the repeated Perpetua delays causing people to suspect that Massdrop never intended to deliver them on-time in the first place, knowing that there's lower probability of people canceling due to delay vs showing delivery date too far in the future.
Terrificknifeguy
41
Sep 26, 2018
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Bob Terzuola probably asked for his name to be taken off. I wouldnt blame massdrop right off the bat. (Maybe the knife didn't make his approval)
Davidsh331
285
Sep 26, 2018
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I don't think you understood the message. He wants the knife, but WITH the designers name as well... Its only appropriate to recognize the designer. Would you buy a painting with the artists signature removed to "clean it up"?
Davidsh331
285
Sep 26, 2018
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But they didn't get mine. Wait till the next time you buy a car with 4 wheels when you shopped it, then you go pick it up at the dealer to find that it then only had 3. Some moron thought it would look better with fewer wheels.
LongGenericUserName
82
Sep 26, 2018
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It looks like it's a very dark bronze with stomewashing. That's quite a bit different from the bright almost golden look in the photos. The two half ass camera phone photos aren't giving me a great sense of confidence.
Davidsh331
285
Sep 26, 2018
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Jakpro
128
Sep 26, 2018
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I don’t think that MassDrop intentionallay left of Bob’s name. I think that WeKnives did not print his name and shipped the knives.
When they went through QC, MassDrop spotted the error, but rather than returning the knives to We Knives, they hatched this scheme to hoodwink and bamboozle the customer knowing that once they received the knives most of them would just roll over and take it up the rear.
I want a refund of the full price and I think that there should be additional compensation for my waiting 5 months for a knife that was significantly different from the ordered knife.
When they went through QC, MassDrop spotted the error, but rather than returning the knives to We Knives, they hatched this scheme to hoodwink and bamboozle the customer knowing that once they received the knives most of them would just roll over and take it up the rear.
I want a refund of the full price and I think that there should be additional compensation for my waiting 5 months for a knife that was significantly different from the ordered knife.
LongGenericUserName
82
Sep 26, 2018
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I think you're spot on. I'll go so far as to say they knew about this weeks or months ago. I still like the knife...just might need to make some alterations to their logo on mine.
enord
19
Sep 26, 2018
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I personally like it better without the name, but to each their own. When you order preproduction products I think you have to expect you might not get a product that looks 100% like the mockup.
How the knife feels and performs is by far the most important factor to me anyway. You could totally remove all logos and it wouldn’t change how the knife cuts or feels in the hand or pocket.
How the knife feels and performs is by far the most important factor to me anyway. You could totally remove all logos and it wouldn’t change how the knife cuts or feels in the hand or pocket.
dweikum
9
Sep 26, 2018
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If Bob had pulled his name, he would have pulled his logo as well.
And, @SuzTerzuola (Bob's wife and business partner) indicated above that she was not aware of this change, so I'm betting Bob was not aware...but he's aware now.
While it would be very disrespectful to remove a maker's name from his design, it's doubtful that anyone at MD [decided] to remove Bob's name without consulting him, that would be seriously messed up...ok, maybe Jonas would do that. But a more reasonable assumption is that WE marked the blades wrong and shipped them along, so MD is doing some preemptive damage control, hoping it will all be fine and they won't have to take too many back.
While it would be very disrespectful to remove a maker's name from his design, it's doubtful that anyone at MD [decided] to remove Bob's name without consulting him, that would be seriously messed up...ok, maybe Jonas would do that. But a more reasonable assumption is that WE marked the blades wrong and shipped them along, so MD is doing some preemptive damage control, hoping it will all be fine and they won't have to take too many back.
ponagathos
511
Sep 26, 2018
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I have to say I prefer the original logo with the smaller dragon. I can live with that change though. More worrisome is how the thumb disk and pivot screw look in those pics. They are far, far removed from the original design. Expect a return if my knife look like that one.
And why are you shipping a $150 knife Smartpost? It is the worst possible shipping method as far as I am concerned. How much does it save really? I received two shipping notices from you Friday. The first sent USPS was received Monday. The Smartpost is not expected until Friday. Plus, I have had two Smartpost packages with delivery issues that required me to go to the post office and then it takes forever for then to find it because it is not in their system. It is the worst.
And why are you shipping a $150 knife Smartpost? It is the worst possible shipping method as far as I am concerned. How much does it save really? I received two shipping notices from you Friday. The first sent USPS was received Monday. The Smartpost is not expected until Friday. Plus, I have had two Smartpost packages with delivery issues that required me to go to the post office and then it takes forever for then to find it because it is not in their system. It is the worst.
LongGenericUserName
82
Sep 26, 2018
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After reading all the comments including Bob's wife (who is one of the bestest people on the planet)....
Can you just admit that these got botched in production and you only caught it during "QC" after shipping?
The lack of updates, the no Q&A...it's fairly clear you knew about this for awhile. Maybe give us a few bucks off and make sure Bob gets paid.
Can you just admit that these got botched in production and you only caught it during "QC" after shipping?
The lack of updates, the no Q&A...it's fairly clear you knew about this for awhile. Maybe give us a few bucks off and make sure Bob gets paid.
arpoc
6
Sep 26, 2018
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All these people losing their s*** over a few letters. Yes, there should have been better communication, but you’re all acting like they changed the steel, or the design somehow, or that they promised that BT hand engraved his name on the blade. It is a Terzuola design, and his graphic logo remains on the blade designating it as such. Slapping a name on the blade doesn’t make it a custom. Lets keep in mind that this is a collaboration that Massdrop made happen, and they have every right to put their name on it. It is an original Terzuola design made by a respectable manufacturer at an unbelievable price. And it’s shipped AHEAD of schedule. Overall I’d say Massdtop have done us a great service by making such a product available. THANK YOU MASSDROP.
WoodyBalto
432
Sep 26, 2018
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I think most people are upset because they feel like massdrop pulled some sneaky shit by waiting until AFTER the knives were shipped before saying anything. It's a very bad business practice. They should have been more transparent with their customers. I can live with the missing designers name. What I won't live with is if they also changed the finish on the hardware. I guess i'll know in about 9 hrs.
Phineus
73
Sep 26, 2018
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The thing I really like about this is the first couple posts are pretty obviously BS spoof accounts designed to give positive spin to drops.
" i LOVE the dragon head -- and the massdrop logo looks great in this largely linear design! great job, guys! " Like, really? Who's going to believe this isn't a fake account trying to get out ahead of the bad PR that's inbound?
" i LOVE the dragon head -- and the massdrop logo looks great in this largely linear design! great job, guys! " Like, really? Who's going to believe this isn't a fake account trying to get out ahead of the bad PR that's inbound?
A community member
Sep 26, 2018
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Surely it is stating an obvious prime principle of commercial integrity to say that what a customer has bought and paid for is what must be delivered. Imagine if you had ordered a pair of shoes in black from me but received brown with the explanation that, in my opinion, it was a better color and that you should therefore accept the pair without first being informed that I had substituted my aesthetic for yours - you would be shocked and angered. Quite reasonably so.
This is also where the argument “why all the fuss, it is still a working tool after all” also fails. A pair of cheap sneakers will serve to provide me comfort and protection when walking, but those are not the only attributes I have in mind when I order let’s say a pair of cap toe chestnut colored uppers from Allen Edmonds.
Decent form would have dictated at the very least that you had preemptively and explicitly apologized and offered a refund BEFORE sending out the altered product.
What a sad waist of good will.
Gimleteye
Terrificknifeguy
41
Sep 26, 2018
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Dude hold up, if it wasn't for MD we wouldn't even have this. I think it's ok they put their names on it.
A community member
Sep 26, 2018
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IT IS NOT "just some lettering" !!
You are obviously totally unfamiliar/unschooled in knives and knife collecting, or else you would not make such a uninformed and bogus statement.
Here are a few images of the blade in its final form:
-We also wanted to give an update on the Q&A. It is being finalized as we speak and will be coming your way in the next few days. Our apologies for the delay in getting it to you, but we did want to ensure you that it is on its way. As always, if you have any questions or feedback, please feel free to reach out to us. We look forward to you receiving your Massdrop x Terzuola Compact Tactical Folder soon.