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View Full Discussion Hey everyone, thanks for your patience,
seeing the posts re: Bootloader and wanted to give an update. Drop is sending out a few pcbs from the production run to myself and PCB designer Quadcube for us to figure out the issue and how to fix it.
will update this post as I get more details
thanks everyone again and we’ll get this figured out asap.
Quick status update - QuadCube and I have put together the design package for the custom flashing header. We've submitted the design files to Drop on the 15th but don't have a status update yet on they're end for production etc.
If you have a TeensyUSB on hand already, the guide posted by @davidfriar is confirmed to work and it is what I would recommend.
Please find the link here: https://github.com/davidfriar/tokyo60ispflashing/blob/master/README.md
Thanks everyone again for your patience - I'll update as more info filters through to me from Drop & co.
Apologies for the delayed update.
First off thank you so much @davidfriar for the fantastic guide and also the trouble shooting along the way.
taken sometime to confirm a few more things and confirming that there was an issue with the initial flashing meaning that an ISP reflashing is the only way to solve the issue.
I’m working w/ QuadCube right now to create a custom header for a USB ISP flasher and looking at Drop to get the custom header and the flashing device out to people who would need one.
Will update everyone more as I get more details on how this would roll out.
A million thanks again to @davidfriar and everyone who provided their input. I can’t DM anyone here but if anyone wants to reach me I’m on discord at TokyoCoffeeNerd#1733 or Instagram @tyokbd
Package has been found and will arrive to QuadCube tmr morning. I’ve sent my pcb over as well just in case. Thanks everyone - more updates soon.
Waiting to UPS/Yamato to locate QuadCube’s pcb. If they aren’t able to locate it by EOD today Japan time I’ll ship the unit I have on hand. Sorry guys probably not the updated you wanted today.
Also confirmed /w Drop that there has only been one firmware ver. provided to them which includes bootloader (same as v1 + v2) - want to wait for QuadCube to take a look before testing any re-flashing.
Confirming what every one has experienced w/ bootloader.
quick update 1/8:
pcb arrived and in-hand. Quadcube will have arrived also.
confirming I’m seeing the same bootloader issues also. Going through some checks now.
PCBs have arrived in Japan and in transit to me an quadcube.
PCBs are enroute to Japan eta 1/6. I’ll be able to provide more updates then once we go over and replicate what everyone’s seeing.
Also thanks everyone with sharing their status, it’s helping a lot to build a clearer picture of what’s going on.
oh and as @jimjon noted, the Tokyo60 case was designed to fit all standard 60% pcbs
- - thanks for checking the reset switch and traces, confirming that this is not an issue on my board as well.
- Someone mentioned that pin PE2 might be the culprit if not pulled down - confirmed this is not the case.
- Double checked firmware provided on my side and is the same version as PCB’s v1 + v2 which have had no issues w/ bootloader.
- extra PCB still ‘in-transit’ to QuadCube, calling UPS to follow up on the package and see what’s up.
I'm in the same boat that I can't flash the PCB. Without control on capslock the board is basically useless. Can you please send out an update to all purchasers once the a solution is identified. Having to follow up on the discussions boards is less than ideal.
Yep, would be less of an issue if the boards were properly flashed with a HHKB layout to begin with. Failure all around it would appear. Makes me wonder what that month-long delay for extra QC was for when every board shipped out so far can't be flashed. How in the hell did this get past QC, and why in the world don't the runners of this drop have any of the production-run components on hand? Who tested this junk before it was shipped?
Honestly, I get the feeling we are being given the runaround over an issue they've known about for months. For a third run, this crap is amateur hour. Has Drop, tokyocoffeenerd, or Yanbo emailed any of the customers in this drop about this issue yet, or even commented on the delayed shipping anywhere? Why am I even having to check a forum daily like a chump to see if the product I paid for will be fixed in the first place? This is getting super old, and this site is looking more and more like a scam daily with how unprofessionally this kind of crap is handled.
This a thousand times. I waited months to flash my V2 (because it at least came w/ an HHKB layout). This one requires an immediate flash as it's not HHKB by default...
Bummer... I'd really like to use my new board(s), but it's not practical. This must be resolved if I am to keep the boards that I ordered. Standard Caps Lock positioning is a dealbreaker.
because lazy, what happened with the v2 and flashing?? i was thinking about buying the v1 they have on the yanbo closet thing but if v2 and v3 are having flashing issues then that wouldn't be helpful at all.
to add to the mapping comments, this thing is no nor no where near what the hhkb mapping is or even whats listed in the qmk github. alt and gui are flipped, ctrl is actually standard caps lock and ctrl is fn+tab which is useless because when i go to do ctrl and anything(a,c,v, etc) another function happens. like to ctrl and a to select all doesn't work and instead turns my volume up. what??!!
side note: i was thinking about this issue last night and to be fair i know nothing about electrical design or manufacturing but it seems that since the board can't be put into bootloader mode for anything ( special key presses or the reset switch) seems like there will have to be a massive recall/replacement for the pcb. which at that point mass drop should eat the cost and potentially give a partial refund. no credits because no one would use that because of the bad experience from this(and other drops. like keycaps that were supposed to ship in june 2019.....)
Hey man I’m really sorry about that and trying to figure out how these weren’t flashed with an hhkb layout and possibly bootloader for that matter.
If Control is caps lock then it’s indicating that somehow what’s flashed isn’t what I set up (HHKB layout all the way) so thanks for that heads up.
Also I don’t have everyone’s emails so this is the best way for me to reach everyone atm. If there’s a better more steam-lined method let me know and happy to switch to that
My v2 mapped fine. I've tried every method I know of to get the v3 to go into bootloader mode (including shorting the reset pin to ground on the firmware chip itself). All I get is momentary recognition in the form of a beep that it wants to do something, but then nothing happens. I'm a software guy, not a hardware guy, but based on the forums that I scoured; it appears to me that there is no bootloader present. The chips appear to have not been flashed w/ the QMK bootloader nor the correct key map. AFAIK there is no way to fix it without special tooling.
I would also like to know what to do here... I want my Tokyo60s, but not like this. I'm going to need replacement PCBs unless there is some undocumented magic trick that I'm not aware of (and yes, I think these replacements should just be shipped out immediately to anyone that reports an issue, considering how long we've waited).
I’ve come to the same conclusion, that there is no bootloader. I tried reinstalling qmk toolbox, drivers and the like on my windows machine and then tried the same on my linux box and both wouldn’t get the t60 to flash. Even tried flashing my Planck just to make sure it wasn’t some special flaw on the computer side(Planck flashed fine). I saw on the t60 board through holes labeled isp so assuming that would be a way to flash a bootloader on the chip and then usb to flash the mapping but a) I have no idea if that’d work and b) I don’t have any tools for isp like flashing.
ive looked at other 60% pcb that support hhkb to see if maybe they’d be able to screw in but doesn’t seem that’d be the case. Saw 1up keyboards has a hhkb layout kit and thinking go that route. But I’ve also got an Apple m0110 so just kinda lost
I would think @YanboWu or someone @Drop has the ability to notify group purchasers by email.
@YanboWu @tokyocoffeenerd Do you think this is something that can be fixed by the user? Or is this something we are going to have to ship our PCB's back or get new ones? I was really looking forward to getting mine today but now I am dissapointed before I even got the product.
Hey, just in case you were wondering, the 1up keyboard HHKB pcb does fit the Tokyo60 case (there is post on Reddit with a user using that PCB with the V3 case), and so does the KBD6x, which is what I'm using (had one laying around), and it fits fine, even with the double USB-C ports.
Well it's good there is at least an option for me to spend 45 bucks to get a new PCB to get this thing to actually work...
My kit looks to be flashed with an hhkb layout, but maybe without a boot loader since I also can't get QMK toolbox to see it and flash a new map on to it.
In theory what am I supposed to do to get the keyboard to go into flash mode? On my DZ60 I hold down spacebar and B and then plug it in. I see no documentation on how to do that on this board.
oh that's perfect! well not really but worst case at least it's an option.
I dont really want to buy another PCB if Drop will likely send us new ones though.
But for how long do you want to wait? So far the communication has been terrible! What if it takes over a month before we hear anything back from them?
I don't think you have been with them long enough. At this point I am used to all the waiting and delays
Sure, neither do I. No one should have to spend more money to fix the mistakes of Drop and the lazy fools running this campaign. I just happened to have an extra KBBD6x laying around, and figured I'd share that info since Yanbo and tokyocoffeenerd have zero answers or help to offer. I mean, it's not like it would be a good look for them to recommend other PCBs to fix their mistakes, so figured after all the hell I've given them in the comments here, I'd help them out by helping out the users they refuse to help.
Of course, I'd much rather hear some answers from the people in question about how this mess is going to be fixed in a timely fashion, and how they are going to make up for their mistake, but that doesn't seem to be forthcoming.
Thanks for the update.
I just want to note that I have the same bootloader issue as well. I received my Tokyo60 today. Just finished building it. It works fine apart from this issue and I'm very happy with it overall... it's a really nice design and well executed, so thanks for all your hard work :)
But not being able to flash it with QMK is a complete dealbreaker for me :(
The symptoms I'm seeing are as others describe. Not detected at all by QMK Toolbox (on MacOs High Sierra), and neither LShift + RShift + Fn + P nor the purple button have any effect. Also tried it on a different machine with dfu-programmer on Linux, but again not working. (Both machines verified to be able to detect and flash my other keyboard (kbdfans tofu)).
"Also thanks everyone with sharing their status, it’s helping a lot to build a clearer picture of what’s going on."
You and your team didn't test the boards, and now the people that paid you for them are suffering for your mistakes. That's what's "going on." Thanks buddy, good job.
How exactly are you going to fix this problem, and what are we supposed to do in the meantime as our options for charging back countdown thanks to these unending delays? Seriously, how did you not have any of these boards on hand? This is your third version, and yet everything about this run screams amateur hour.
Guess this comment you left on Reddit didn't age so well, did it? https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/7us27h/tokyo60_x_massdrop/dtmnca4/
I wonder why some people would hate having to deal with Drop? Why could that be?
Oh, and it wasn't jimjon that noted which PCBs will fit your case, it was me, the loudmouth complainer. 3 Drops for this board, and you don't even know how to read the site's screen names. Why am I not surprised?
Yeah....wasn’t me saying the case was universal to other 60% boards. I was wondering/low key asking if other hhkb layout pcb would fit. I’ll wait until next Friday to see what happens with this but the problem is there is no bootloader. How this is solved is the question.
on another comment where you mentioned not having any way to contact us other than this page: we weren’t specifically saying that you needed to let everyone know via other means than this page, we were talking about yanbo and mass drop in general. They have a list of emails of everyone that joined this drop. The first issue of no bootloader was commented on here December 24. So give it a day or two because Christmas. Then more reports started coming in pretty regular from the 26-30. At that point (December 30) massdrop should’ve emailed everyone about the issue. A simple “xyz has been reported and we are looking into it” would’ve been enough,at least for some/most. I’m currently joined on two other drops for keycaps. One was purchased October 2018 and was eta June 2019 to ship. A day or two before hand, email goes out about not meeting deadline(which November 19, a day before the t60 was to ship, got an email saying it was delayed. A day before?! Issues were know ahead of time and should’ve been relayed). There were two other emails sent (November 19 and a couple days ago) saying that we weren’t getting caps any time soon because xyz. The other drop is scheduled for February 2020 but shows the drop completed. Go to it’s discussion page and..... they have pictures from late November about test runs. Why was this not emailed?? Our point is that massdrop has horrible communication and delays are way more frequent than “acceptable delays”. Once I get those two sets (which who knows when that’ll be) I’m done with massdrop. There have been too many issues and whatnot over the past year that they aren’t worth it. If they have a board/caps I’d like, I’ll just wait until it hits mechmarket and pay the overhead
100% agree. I’ve currently got two krycap drops I’m waiting for( one is over a year and still not delivered because font/color issues or some bs like that) and another that supposedly(keyword) ships in February. Once I get those two sets I’m done with these people and closing down my account. Personally put together group buys from mechmarket or r/mk are run better/more efficiently than this site. Which I find disturbing to be honest. As for for this drop, I’ll wait a week to see what fix they come up with and if it’s crap/there is none then the 1up hhkb pcb will be bought. I just want to use the product I purchased. Hell may even buy the v1 if they have any left.
I'm with @jimjon. I'm not optimistic that this issue can be resolved w/o sending out new PCBs to everyone. In my opinion, needing to send production PCBs to Japan for troubleshooting is a red flag (and probably a stall at best). I will also wait until next Friday for a conclusive update and action, uncertainty of resolution beyond then is unacceptable to me and I'll be forced to take matters into my own hands.
As a follow on from my last reply I'd just like top summarise my understanding of the situation so far. Most of the information I have comes from this discussion, so there's a risk that I'm just repeating things that we know already, but maybe it's useful to do that anyway.
It looks as if there are two distinct issues here:
1. Some people have found that their boards do not have the expected default HHKB keymappings that @tokyocoffeenerd intended. This definitely isn't the case for everyone. My board currently seems to have an HHKB-ish layout: it has control where normies put their capslock for example. Interestingly though mine isn't quite identical to the default layout that's in github (GUI and ALT appear to be transposed).
2. Everyone who has commented about it in this discussion is reporting the second problem: that it seems impossible to flash a new layout because nothing happens when you press the reset button (or press LSHIFT + RSHIFT + Fn + P). It seems reasonable to assume that this issue is affecting the whole drop (if anyone actually has got this to work then it would be really useful information to know this).
I spent a little while today faffing around with a multimeter and I can confirm that when the reset button on the board is pressed it definitely does short the reset pin on the chip to ground as expected, so I think we can rule out the obvious dodgy traces / duff reset button scenario
Also, it seems pretty clear that the bootloader code is either missing or not running for some reason. Normally (at least with other keyboards I have), when you reset the board into bootloader mode, the bootloader will appear to the computer connected to the board as another separate USB device. Running lsusb on Linux normally shows this (as a separate device called something like Atmel DFU Bootlader). In this case it just isn't there. I think this rules out any kind of weird compatibility issues between the bootloader and QMK Toolbox. The bootloader just ain't there.
A fair number of people are quite upset about this, some more vocally so than others. My position is that I'm very upset indeed, because for me it reduces the value of the keyboard to almost zero if I can't program it how I want it. However, I also don't think it's that useful to be focusing on who is to blame for the situation rather than on how we can get it resolved.
@YanboWu has said (in another discussion) that Drop will not abandon us and will seek a solution or provide a refund if this proves impossible. Currently @tokyocoffeenerd is waiting on production samples to be delivered which are expected tomorrow, so we may know more soon.
There does seem to be precedent for this, as a similar thing seems to have happened with the Planck Light in 2018.
The good news is that in this case the problem was resolved by shipping out an ISP programmer board to everyone that enabled them to reflash the bootloader thought the ISP headers on the board.
The bad news is that it appears to have taken 3 months from the time when the problem was discovered for the ISP programmer board to be manufactured and shipped. For many of us this would I think be an unacceptable further wait.
It also looks likely that a DIY solution may turn out to be possible and could be done much faster. Looks like it's reasonably straightforward, using a ProMicro or a Teensy 2.0. Given that Amazon offers to ship me either of these by tomorrow, this looks like a fairly attractive option.
Above all, I think what everyone in this discussion is hoping for is clear and timely communication about what's happening.
Yeah but what we are forgetting is that drop is shipping the boards to tokyocoffeenerd so it’ll probably get delayed at least a week or two. /s
yeah hopefully it doesn’t take three months to fix, but I’ve already ordered a 1UP PCB
Hope you figure it out. For the record, I can not flash, but I have correct HHKB layout.
Sounds like a proper summary to me. Your conclusion about communication is spot on as well.
If I was running the show here, I'd be sending out official updates every 12 hours even if they're as simple as "Still working on it".
Right now, I personally feel on edge / abandoned because I have only this discussion to get information from (and ALL of the information that has meant anything has come from the community and not @Drop, @YanboWu, @tokyocoffeenerd as it should). Drop support has not gotten back to me with my options either. There is no phone number for support? No chat or other means of getting an official response in realtime? Garbage.
This isn't wish.com and I payed much more than 1 dollar. I expect reasonable answers in a reasonable timeframe. I've had 2 useless $200 keyboards on my desk for 13 days without any idea of their fate. I don't like playing the waiting game past a point, especially with a company that I've effectively given an interest free loan for 7 months and who has yet to make good on their promise.
My level of upset-ness is amplified massively by the fact that this seems to have been a totally avoidable debacle and that we're now personally responsible for mitigating the negligence of whoever was meant to test these boards before shipping.
Email from Drop support:
"(Drop Community Support)
Jan 5, 2:21 PM PST
Thanks for getting back to us! I do have a few options to offer you.
1. I can send you a prepaid return label and issue a full refund for the TOKY060 SEASON 3.
2. I can send a prepaid return label and send you a replacement TOKYO60 SEASON 3.
3. I can issue a $20.00 partial refund and you keep the product as is.
Please respond with which option you'd prefer
and your current shipping address in the
* All lines: English characters only
* Address line 1: 30 character limit
* Address line 2: 30 character limit
* City/State/ Province line: 20 character limit
* Postal/Zip Code: 10 character limit
If you have any further questions or concerns I
would be happy to help.
Have a great day!"
Those who want the keep the product and use it as intended after waiting the better part of 2019 are getting shafted.
I mentioned the below and support still wouldn't budge:
* This renders board worthless/useless as we're unable to utilise it's intended features; QMK programmability, HHKB layout, and lighting, and
* a board with equivalent functionality currently retails for $45 plus freight.
Nice that they actually got back to you... still waiting over here. Agreed that 20 dollars doesn't cover the cost of the PCB. When would they even be able to ship a replacement? And would it have the same issue?
IMO they gotta credit everyone $50 for the PCB, send new PCBs out, or send some sort of patch solution for the firmware. They should probably do more, considering customer retention is at stake on a large scale; but that seems like a wishful outcome considering they haven't indicated that they care one iota.
Currently, replacement won’t resolve the issue as every PCB appears to be affected. In my eyes, the optimal action for Drop to take going forward (from a damage mitigation perspective) would be to cover the cost of a replacement board for those affected. That ensures both the time and money components of the situation have been addressed.
As far as I'm aware, the only way to fix the existing hardware is for Drop to develop and ship everyone an ISP so we can flash the bootloader. This ends up costing Drop money, and us time, hence my above suggestion.
Thanks @tokyocoffeenerd for the daily updates. It's very much appreciated.
I have an update of my own to pass on. I've never been very good at waiting patiently, so I decided to have a go at re-flashing the bootloader with a Teensy2.0 and it worked perfectly. I now have a fully functional Tokyo60 and I couldn't be happier.
In the UK at least you can get a Teensy from Amazon with next day delivery. The process is reasonably straightforward and can be done without soldering. On the other hand I guess there is some risk of bricking your pcb if you mess up the wiring or something like that, so I guess some people might want to wait for an officially sanctioned solution.
I'm more than happy to write up a little guide tomorrow explaining what I did, if people think that's useful. Just let me know if anyone wants me to do that and I'll get on it.
@davidfriar Thanks for input! I assume you have followed the boot loader flashing guide with ISP attached as described in QMK documentation? It would be super helpful if you could write down ISP1 pins order. I didn’t have time to look on it on my own yet.
would love to read about how you got it work and if it can be recreated using an Arduino?
thank you for the link. i'll keep this in mind while looking for for other resources. hopefully @davidfriar post an article on how he got his to work!
So I wrote up the solution that worked for me. You can find it here:
Let me emphasise that this is not an official or supported solution. If you follow any of these steps or rely on any of the information I've provided, you do so at your own risk. If you are reckless and impatient, like me, then go for it.
Thank you for the detailed writeup. Unfortunately I can't get QMK Toolbox to recognize my UNO as an ISP flasher. Maybe because it's a chinese copy and not an original Arduino... Hopefully your instructions will help some others though!
Thanks. Tried using the ICSP pins first, but didn't work, so tried again with "old style" wireing, and it actually worked, even though my wireing was a mess :D https://imgur.com/a/6UdCVIy Used the command from the above reddit post. Couldn't be happier :) Thanks again for the help!
edit: @morethanfrost got stuff working as you see. Follow the instructions on how to turn the Arudino into an ISP, uncomment line #81 ( // #define USE_OLD_STYLE_WIRING ) before uploading the program.
Look here for what pins to use: https://www.arduino.cc/en/tutorial/arduinoISP#toc3
Pin 10 - reset
Pin 11 - mosi
Pin 12 - miso
Pin 13 - SCK (SCLK)
VCC i connected to 5v
GRN to GRN
Take a look at @davidfriars excellent guide for where the corresponding pins are on the tokyo60.
If QMK Toolbox doesn't recognize your Arudino, you can use the command from the redditpost linked above.
Remember to flash new firmware after the bootloader has been flashed.
Since I don't have AVR programmer I decided to use Raspberry Pi Zero as programmer. I managed to flash the bootloader, but I keep getting verification error. I have tried decreasing speed, use different baudrate and reset fuses, but still it keeps failing.
avrdude: verifying ...
avrdude: verification error, first mismatch at byte 0x7090
0xff != 0x7f
avrdude: verification error; content mismatch
Now, the intersting part is I can flash my keyboard using QMK Toolbox. I have tried default and custom layout, and so far everything works as expected. I will try to get Tennesy or AVR programmer next week and see if it works.
In Tokyo, it's 10:30 pm on a Monday. QuadCube got the PCB over the weekend.
Hey there - thanks again for helping to trouble shoot along the way and for the excellent guide.
Would love to DM you somehow - can you find me on Instagram @tyobd or discord at tokyocoffeenerd#1733?
Probably a stupid question but does the Tokyo60 need to be powered when flashing the bootloader?
No, it should not be powered. The chip on the PCB will get its power from the 5V connection.
I appreciate the time and effort to fix the issues. However, I feel that all these issues are on massdrop. The qc was a failure (along with the delay/lack of communication) and although an isp flasher May solve the problem it has potential to cause more issues. As in what if we flash it wrong or there is some other issue during the flashing. Then we’re left in the same spot, useless pcb. I know this isn’t your issue and massdrop says plans to fix are coming later today(Tuesday) but the best solution is to have pcb sent out that work. Again, I have no issues with tokyocoffeenerd but with massdrop.
Thanks for this, it was really helpful.
how about those of us who aren't happy with the color blue we received?
the one that was promised with "electric blue" but we were shipped "samurai blue" which is much darker and imho uglier
@GarrettW have you tried contacting support about this yourself?
Seems like they were trying to match GMK Striker, because it looks fantastic with those keycaps.
While you guys are adding up how many points of margin this mistake is going to cost you, could you at least publish a vendor-approved ISP bootloader flashing guide so I can use the equipment I already have to fix it?
Is there anyway we'd be able to get an estimated delivery date on the USB ISP flasher, even if very broad (like a month(s) window)? Checking this page everyday for updates.
Yup, an update would be nice. It's been over a week since the last one.
it has been a week since last update, can we at least have weekly update after all these delays and broken pcbs.
If / when we are getting the custom flashing header. Will I have to pay customs again?
I already paid 90 euro on top of the price of the keyboard itself. So I don't feel like I should be paying for repairs or stuff like that.
So awesome to have you around @tokyocoffeenerd making sure your end of things are good to go.
Sad that drop/massdrop doesn't have a procedure for something that has already happened in the past and won't at least show their face to say "we're going the the bureaucracy of getting an approval for the needed item or getting buyers xx in compensation for having to do it themselves."
I'm not interested in being a customer of a company that JUST acknowledged their lack of communication but doesn't do anything about it.
@davidfriar & @WarBird Thank you for your posts it was extremely helpful. I was able to flash a bootloader using an elegoo uno r3. I had to run the command from the reddit post since QMK toolbox didn't recognize the elegoo. Again thanks!
Did Drop or someone ever resolve this issue? I recently bought a Tokyo60 Season 3 used and discovered that I couldn't get it into bootloader mode, and found this lovely problem. I don't have an Arduino or Teensyusb laying around to implement David Friar's ISP flashing procedure. Any updates?