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NuForce Icon HDP DAC/Amp
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NuForce Icon HDP DAC/Amp
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Product Description
For discerning audiophiles looking to get better sound quality out of their computers, the unit packs a heck of a punch for the size. It contains a preamp, DAC, and high-current, low-distortion Class-A headphone amplifier—all housed in a sleek, compact aluminum chassis that stands vertically to occupy minimal space on your desk Read More
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Whitedragem
185
Sep 5, 2019
I see a lot of comments on this thread that would easily be interpreted by fence sitters as negative, when they need to be understood with context that is often unspoken in esoteric audio circles.
An example is when high end audio reviews slam a piece of kit with a potentially ‘jarring’ review; the review reads like the equipment gets nothing magically right and has little positive to say, and may even give a three (out of five) star result.
Of course that same piece of ‘three star’ kit can be totally magic. Like video game reviews 6-7/10 often just means that the game ‘adds nothing’ that hasn’t been done before (although may still be super fun for those who like ‘these sorts of games’).. I am tangenting. (Verbage using verbal diarrhoea, of ‘tangent’)
Audio component reviews are measured against other kit OF THE SAME CLASS.
a two star rated $5000 Disc spinner (eg CD/DVD/Bluray) might get docked a star for being overly priced vs other kit of the same class, and lose a further star for not being better than the same model last year- in this case, finding this same piece of ‘two star’ kit second hand for bargain basement dollars (eg $1500) would be brilliant, and would likely outperform much ‘five star kit’ that sold for $2000 or less..
Context is key.
Many points of discussion in this thread (and many others especially with regards to beloved hifi kit) become emotional. Or do not give reference to what the user seeks. typical example is saying this doesn’t have enough power to drive (specific) headphones, without establishing that the user only listens to death metal at ‘full volume’ on the dial. The same reviewer would diss many models of headphone amp, before realising that they may have the wrong headphones for their needs’ or need to increase their budget for amp selection. It doesn’t mean that a given product isn’t suitable, just not suitable for them.
Of course we all give opinions, but some words to qualify the opinion really matter.
When so few people qualify their level of hi-fi knowledge, and offer ten words or less, generally scathingly, without suggesting why/what needs improving/is wrong, the discussion isn’t moved forward, nor proves helpful for general readers, or those ‘less knowledgable’ about this industry.
This industry?
Is very ‘flavour of the moment’...
Prices are driven by buying trends.
I have had orthodynamic headphones by yamaha dating from the early eighties, and take note that any headphone bought in the nineties was generally under two hundred dollars and usually had large 50mm drivers.
Once the masses got ’into headphones’ (thankyou skullcandy and beats), it became acceptable to wear large headphones in public, and REAL audio first/fashion second brands could sell into a massively growing market segment. Where price points all massively rose and now >$200 is needed for 50mm (large driver unit) headphones.
I use the vioelectric v100 (amplifier) as a useful example of price rising as the masses start to buy into this stuff.
The models that replaced the V100 that offered the same level of kit, were higher,... but fit with the audio quality that people would expect at said price points.
Which brings me onto the Nuforce Icon...
This things were a bargain right before the price rise hit EVERYTHING headphones..
Spec sheet bragging rights is the WORST THING a budding hifi enthusiast can follow.
Even to the well trained enthusiast, they are at best a very loose and general guide as to what a piece of kit might be doing right. I generally would trust the weight of the component more so that a piece of paper. (Some TV manufacturers cottoned on to this class of customer, ‘back in the day’, and included giant construction bricks/building blocks inside of the TV set to add weight. Pre shipping. From Turkey. I am sure it was to help stabilise the product.... ;-)
Anyhow, owning an ICON already, and having some real world experience with it, I would like to contribute a few observations.
(this is based on having owned some of the worlds best consumer hifi kit, and having played with hifi for thirty plus years)
:”not doing 88khz sampling rate as a reason to consider it inferior”
With nice revealing kit, most users learn to lock to the sample rate of the playback file. Whilst this is mitigated somewhat with 384khz (up)sampling rates (a nice neat multiplication of 44/48/192 etc), I always set my Asus Essence STX sound card to the sound rate of the playback file, so I actually drop back to 44.1khz sampling rates for majority of my audio files. It avoids dithering and generally, in the real world, keeps cymbal crashes etc, sounding metallic and ‘sharp’.
not having 88khz sampling rates could be a great feature to ‘drop’ when focusing on what users want.
:”not enough power to power X”
Yes this is a low power amp focusing on headphone impedance above 100.
That being said, it drives my B&W P7 headphones beautifully (rated 27ohm I believe). These same headphones running off the Asus STX sound poorly. Not bad. Just different to how they should sound on perfectly matched equipment. On the STX sound card (a very high quality headphone amplifier by PC standards) the bass frequencies become overbearing and the balance is incorrect. Other headphones are less prone to this frequency shift, whilst observing the 10>1 rule of drive power, and the B&Ws are just NOT A GOOD MATCH.
Those same headphones on the Nuforce Icon sound much better (brilliant) and even though the Icon SHOULDN’T make them sound this way (based on science and spec sheet observation/rule of 10>1 etc) they do, and that might be my opinion, but I give it here so as to qualify a few things...
:”not enough power..” continued
Whose ears are listening to this?
Some random internet reviewer or yourself- Find reviewers with similar headphones/music selections/and listening habits and their opinion would no doubt be massively more practical to a ‘matched’ end user.
I drive some Beyerdynamic T90 (not unlike dt990 etc)(although many could argue this point, this is ‘enthusiast talk’ splitting hairs... for the sake of moving forward I will push on..) and I wouldn’t drive these headphones at more than 10:30 on the volume dial (12 o’clock being ‘midway’ to full). Yes the headphones will take a lot more volume, but these headphones are quite rich in high frequencies, and if the driver is not controlled properly (damping factor?) they become shrill or sibilant up top.. By lowering the volume to what I am happy listening too, I find this amp pairs quite well with the headphones.
The output seriously flogs a well rated FIIO X5(III) and is very revealing and not ‘overly bright’ as the Tesla Beyerdynamics are known for.
Those B&W P7s? Reveal no hiss or drive issues that many in this thread have suggested happens when an amp like this pairs up with <100ohm headphones. I cannot speak on behalf of balanced armature/in ears that will easily reveal noise/hiss..
:”Is this part good value”
Outstanding value. It isn’t bolstered spec sheets for nil audio enjoyment. This is the bare minimum to make excellent high quality sound. VS my parasound decodor/DAC it misses some ‘air’ but I have NO DOUBT a power supply overhaul/mod/replacement for the ICON would level the playing feel here wonderfully.
Vs good hifi home seperates, the front to back imaging is a step behind (I’d certainly recommend a power supply upgrade /cabling for the ICON to return the playing field to ‘fair’(er)).
But the quad dac and isolated boards, i2S digital handover etc really makes this bargain basement pricepoint part punch “so far above its’ weight class”.
Recommend one in a heartbeat at (mass)drops’ price points.
Even just for secondary rooms/desktop PC add-ons.
Heck I ran a baby ICON into the loungeroom just to use as a DAC for the Nintendo Switch (yes it works wonderfully), which required pinching the $700 interconnects from my Rotel CD player.
Very much worth it. The Dragonquest XI (demo) soundtrack was so obviously rendered richer that the parasound front end. Richer in ‘the right ways’. With a power supply mod I would think this ICON could hold its own against multithousand dollar seperates. (Or be within ‘the last 5%’ of their sound quality). Of course like all things random in this large multiverse we live in, there are no doubt equivalent bargains, like this Nuforce (Optoma) Icon, in the higher tiered hifi offerings that would make that statement very challengable...
I understand why these units at $600+ (australian) dollars set the world on fire.
I just bought another one, the HDP model, over a range of Cambridge audio second hand parts that were easily available. It might not be as good as an NAD m51 dedicated hifi rack part costing 3x more money, at the Icons full retail, but for the paultry (mass)drop asking price, these are a bargain, and well worth buying if not just to play with.
There will always be a place to use a macguyver device like this one.
MUST BUY!
BlackEyeZ
0
Nov 17, 2019
ty again... is there a big difference between the Burson Play Basic and the V6 Vivid ?
(Edited)
medu5a
9
Nov 18, 2019
BlackEyeZI have no idea really. I can recommend you to watch Z Review youtube videos about this topic. He is a funny guy that says what he thinks and tests all sorts of DACs, amps, headphones and loudspeakers. He has a video comparing the three DAC/Amp combo's that I mentioned in my last comment. He also has a longer guide on how to get better audio in for gaming (with a microphone, etc.)
Just check out his youtube channel and you will find some useful videos.
Uzuzu
1431
May 12, 2016
can't see why buyers wouldn't just stretch 200 more dollars and go for the m9xx, which has better specs.
Uzuzu
1431
May 14, 2016
if you ever have to change your system volume that already means your dac/amp is failing you and making you do extra work (and lose quality). Either way the fact it is old tech and worth probably 150 or less still stands.
Jyri
818
Nuforce
May 14, 2016
UzuzuI don´t think that's what he meant. What megabigeye should do is to increase system volume up or near 0db and let the HDP handle the amplifying. In this case also no channel imbalance (which is caused by the volume control if I am not mistaken, it will balance the channels when slightly above zero point).
Yaderb11
232
Aug 13, 2019
Soooooo When is this shipping?. It said it was going to ship Aug 12 on the drop description.
ld100
180
May 12, 2016
A little too expensive. For 200 I would be all over it. The only thing is that NuForce is not getting good reviews now after it was purchased by another company... People responsible for NuForce reputation are now running NuPrime which does get great reviews product wise... I probably would be more inclined to spend more and get NuPrime current product... But that's just me...
Jyri
818
Nuforce
May 14, 2016
On behalf of whole Optoma and NuForce I want to apologize for the poor customer service. To be honest I am shocked to hear this. I receive customer service reports every week and according to our team no inquiry is left unanswered. Obviously something strange happened here and I want to understand what.
What makes me more unhappy is the fact that DDA120 does not require any USB-drivers, and due to the all-digital platform there shouldn't be any reason why it wouldn't work or why it is cutting out. It basically works or doesn't and everything in between are more or less related to source, connections etc. Our team should have been able to support you or simply swap the unit to a new one. But in the end we did not do any of this and we lost you. To me this is something which should never happen.
I am also worried to hear that you received a damaged package. World Wide Stereo is using Amazon fulfillment service so this is more likely related to Amazon than them. Nevertheless also something which should never happen. I will make sure our account manager has a discussion with World Wide to see if there is something we can improve.
Once again, my deepest apologies for this very unfortunate experience.
I do appreciate this feedback and we will take actions to improve our customer service.
-Jyri
Once again, my deepest apologies for this very unfortunate experience.
I do appreciate this feedback and we will take actions to improve our customer service.
-Jyri
Whitedragem
185
Sep 21, 2019
Setting Up a NuForce/Optoma Icon (HDP etc)....
Just a quick 2c on how to ‘get the best’ from this “five star” rated product ;-)
As the spec output is 2.6Vrms from the Icon, when standard audio equipment expects 2Vrms input, a level matching should be done....
I found leaving the volume dial at full output when using the Phono plug outputs (into other audio kit), resulted in the “Overload” light warning on my preamp.
DirkG
42
Nov 15, 2019
Thanks for the extensive reply! Much appreciated and it gives some proper insights.
I actually listen to a wide variety of music ranging from melodic power metal to current popbands to classical music (no bassy rap, trance or dance music though). I also watch an occasional movie or series. If the xonar card is good enough, then perhaps I should temper my urge to get a DAC/AMP.. :-)
Whitedragem
185
Nov 15, 2019
DirkGI’d say quite the opposite.
For the music you are after a level (or two?) above this entry level nuforceOptoma product.
it might just be a power supply upgrade that is needed (its where my money is) for the Icon/HDP but it runs out of weight behind the instruments when five or more instruments go all out in a musical soundtrack.. (CDs/DVDs etc)
the sound of the instrument is still still there but a lot of the magic/nuance is lost.
its the bit that makes DACs a logical budget allocation as the extra ‘resolve’ (texture etc) is what reveals a piece of music is being made by a master musician.
if you could stretch to a ladder dac, might be a fun prospect...
ultimately for 2channel playback into a reference sound system, the price to benefit (bang for buck!!) jump up to the 4-5 hundred $ mark is outstanding again.
the equipment level improvements are really great value in the sub 1000$ mark, and a DAC is crucial to musical reproduction. When you buy a good one- it will last you many many years.
generally every seven or so years the tier below equipment start to be near equivalent in sound quality; has been the trend the last few decades
flagship stuff from just about any vintage is often worth giving a spin too..
One of these nuForce Icons is the absolute doorway to DAC delight.
it will instantly outclass most equipment not seriously hifi, at the few hundred dollar pricepoint.
Using an outboard DAC is a pretty worthwhile investment.
tgis Icon punches well above its pricepoint and is great for stereo sound.
Daeder
4
May 18, 2016
I wanted to leave a note even though I'm not purchasing one as I already own the HDP. It has amazing synergy with the k7xx and I used to use it with my k702 and I thought it was amazing. I am however running the HDP with it's LPS upgrade. Hope this can help someone out with their purchase. Last thing, I also used to own the Audeze Deckard and funny thing is on a piano track, the hammer strike is very audible in the HDP but it seems like it's not even there with the Deckard.
f917025
12
Sep 1, 2019
Daederi'm planning on upgrading from the icon hd to the deckard for my hd 700 .do you think i should leave it?
the deckard has got great reviews but i'm not sure yet. the hd is too bright for the 700 so i swapped the cable to copper(not silver plated) and the pads to leather it helped a bit. i thought the deckard is a better headphone amp\preamp and maybe the dac is not so good (ess sabre vs burr brown on the nuforce) so maybe the deckard and a proper(chord qute) dac.
Thunder240
8
Sep 1, 2019
DaederI agree that an LPS makes an improvement. It doesn’t necessarily need to be the NuForce LPS. I’m using a TeraDak unit with my Icon HDP and it works great, much more dynamic than stock.
(Edited)
kevinhb
171
Jul 18, 2019
Jozurrout of curiosity, do you remember what they were offering it at before? now it's back at $149
GetJeff1
14
Sep 1, 2019
The description says the only way to get 192kHz/24-bit processing is with a coaxial-in cable. I'll be running this of my Apple MacBook Pro. I have USB, Thunderbolt, and HDMI connections. Is there any way to connect my computer to this device with a coaxial cable?
Thunder240
8
Sep 1, 2019
I don’t have any personal experience using low impedance headphones, sorry.
However, you should google “impedance matching audio components” and read one of the dozens of articles that come up, which range from physics or electronics tutorials to professional reviewer editorials to company white papers and other quasi-technical advertising material. Most of what you’ll find will advise you to ensure that the ratio of input impedance of component 2 to the output impedance of component 1 is > 10. Since the output impedance of the Icon HDP is 10 ohms, this rule would have you use headphones whose impedance is > 100 ohms. However, this rule of thumb is really about ensuring that the gain applied across the frequency band is as close to flat as possible. Just because gain is flat doesn’t necessarily mean you will be happy with the sound. Regarding what sounds good, YMMV. I use my Icon HDP with Shure SRH 1840 cans, and I love the pairing. The Shures have an impedance that’s in the high double digits, definitely less than 100. I may not be getting flat gain, but I like the sound, so who cares? That said, if there is a way that you can try out the Icon HDP with your own cans before you buy, that’s the only way to be safe. Good luck!
vong
262
Aug 30, 2019
I had this dac/amp and it sucked. Couldn't even drive my beyerdynamic dt990 pro's properly. It was discontinued like a decade ago so why is it available here?
(Edited)
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