Click to view our Accessibility Statement or contact us with accessibility-related questions
Showing 1 of 10 conversations about:
Icefalkon
227
Jan 14, 2018
bookmark_border
$60 is insane for this. You've got to be kidding me. lol
Jan 14, 2018
tegeus-Cromis
260
Jan 14, 2018
bookmark_border
IcefalkonWhy, how much do you usually pay for a belt of this quality?
Jan 14, 2018
WhichwaydidheGo
285
Jan 14, 2018
bookmark_border
IcefalkonSince it's unclear, is this insanely good or insanely bad in your mind...
Jan 14, 2018
Icefalkon
227
Jan 14, 2018
bookmark_border
tegeus-CromisYou shouldn't have to spend more than $35-45 dollars for a hand made bridle leather belt with Chicago rivet's.
Jan 14, 2018
ChurchillW
423
Jan 14, 2018
bookmark_border
IcefalkonEh. I don't have any or seen any bridle leather belts that were that cheap. This is also Horween Chromexcel so that it probably also part of the "premium" price. I recently paid around $80 for a Gustin one. My vegetable tanned Tanner Goods belt was also around $100.
Jan 14, 2018
tegeus-Cromis
260
Jan 14, 2018
bookmark_border
IcefalkonMaybe I have been overpaying, but I have seen plenty of similar belts at the same or higher price points from a wide variety of makers. That to me suggests that you (as a savvy belt-buyer) may have been getting belts that were particularly good value, rather than $60 being “insane” for the specs.
Jan 14, 2018
Icefalkon
227
Jan 14, 2018
bookmark_border
ChurchillWLOL I'm sorry, seriously. Because you've been ripped off ridiculously. I used to work with a leather company out of Nyack, NY. We made custom leather goods for people all over the country. Here are some examples of custom made bridle leather belts that I've found: https://buffaloheadleather.com/products/english-bridle-leather-1-1-4-dress-casual-belt-classic-black-hand-made-in-usa-free-shipping?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=45533683983&gclid=Cj0KCQiAnOzSBRDGARIsAL-mUB3v8T1ZzbW23Q-cpjvnQ_OP1rLbh9jqX8PyXyq9gYA1SRsHqlqQlRsaAlVLEALw_wcB
https://www.etsy.com/listing/238257593/15-bridle-leather-belthandmade-mens?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_b-accessories-belts_and_suspenders-belts&utm_custom1=8092dbf7-8167-415c-81d2-013fe1fee503&gclid=Cj0KCQiAnOzSBRDGARIsAL-mUB3M6J5D6x11BGQYWC-IJQKMNyQbgNuVNeY5PmD3YQl5EVJF23teJ9caAic4EALw_wcB
https://www.etsy.com/listing/258772657/mens-belt-dark-brown-100-year-belt-full?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_a-accessories-belts_and_suspenders-belts&utm_custom1=8092dbf7-8167-415c-81d2-013fe1fee503&gclid=Cj0KCQiAnOzSBRDGARIsAL-mUB2oP-mCeoyw4kIdnqypRPPaGf8ye-jP3XHpozCq-pQLY6N1IsSgWBgaAugLEALw_wcB
https://www.etsy.com/listing/193021898/bridle-leather-work-belts-with-stainless?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_b-accessories-belts_and_suspenders-belts&utm_custom1=8092dbf7-8167-415c-81d2-013fe1fee503&gclid=Cj0KCQiAnOzSBRDGARIsAL-mUB1Q6DUTm7FolwuzOjJj7R1DD8zncxt2mXjjn82hXdiYjoJhov9yJjAaAv3tEALw_wcB
These are just a few examples guys...seriously. I've tended to go to people who make the belts themselves, where they're still made by humans, not made by machines. Hell, even the Filson leather belt is under $50 before taxes...
Now that's not the case for every belt, but I'd rather support someone who's not trying to rip the population off for a piece of leather, two rivets, and a $3 buckle...
Know what I mean?
If anyone needs some other belt makers, just let me know.
Jan 14, 2018
ChurchillW
423
Jan 14, 2018
bookmark_border
IcefalkonPoint taken regarding bridle leather.
Can you show us a similar one in Chromexcel at that price?
Jan 14, 2018
Icefalkon
227
Jan 14, 2018
bookmark_border
ChurchillWLOL lets be real here. I'm not a salesman ...I just did my own research into Chromexcel and guess what? It's the tanning process that's basically been used by every single leather maker since the 19th century. Everyone has their own little flair on the process. This "chromexcel" is nothing but a bullshit marketing ploy dudes. They're using a recipe from the early 1900's...um...ok...They tell you it's their proprietary process...um ok...it's the exact same process that every single small leather maker uses...and oh wait...their way is the best way..because...wait for it...because THEY say so... There hasn't been any breakthroughs in tanning in decades. As long as it's bridle leather, it's.....bridle leather.
This isn't a Jaguar we're talking about here...it's a belt. Yes...a belt. Leather, (good leather), two rivets (good rivets) and a buckle (that you can get anywhere...). If you're looking for a status symbol belt, then knock yourself out. But know that it's NO different than ANY other bridle leather belt on the market that you'll get from a small batch leather worker.
EDIT: I just saw on their site that they're charging $425 for a brass tag...a freaking brass tag! It's a freaking piece of brass that goes on your keychain! How does MD even endorse these kinds of businesses??? That alone brings my input into anything this company sells to a close. Have a great new year everyone.
Jan 14, 2018
TheSmallPotato
21
Jan 14, 2018
bookmark_border
IcefalkonWhat are you talking about? Chromexcel is proprietary to Horween. It is first chrome tanned and then vegetable tanned and goes under 89 process. It is a pull up leather that is pliable. Bridle leather is vegetable tanned and then stuffed with oils and wax on both sides in large amounts. It is thick and waxy. The two leathers are so different...why do you keep equating the two? This isn’t a bridle leather belt.
Jan 14, 2018
tegeus-Cromis
260
Jan 15, 2018
bookmark_border
IcefalkonEven if you are right, blame Horween, not this company. You may not think Chromexcel is worth the money, but the fact is it has cachet and that drives up the material costs of the belt. You might as well complain that every maker of shell cordovan products is ripping off their customers because you don’t think shell cordovan is worth it.
Jan 15, 2018
Icefalkon
227
Jan 15, 2018
bookmark_border
TheSmallPotatoLOL dude you've got to be kidding me right? Good bridle leather is worked and not waxy at all. I've worked in the industry and you're going to tell me about leather? For real? You sound like a fan boy for christs sake. If you think it's worth that money. Knock yourself out dude. LOL. As I said, I'm out of this. It's fanboys like this that have driven the prices of common items over the top because they believe every ounce of BS they're given on the internet. Simply ridiculous. As I said...their "proprietary" process is used all over the world. You don't have to repeat everything from their website at me because I've been in tanneries most of my early life actually experiencing the making of the leather that leather work shops use for their products. There is nothing special about it in today's market. You're not getting anything extraordinary or special out of it at all.
Proverbs 14:15
That being said, if you like the belt, go for it.
Jan 15, 2018
tegeus-Cromis
260
Jan 15, 2018
bookmark_border
IcefalkonOkay, I’ll take your word for it that the process is fundamentally no different. But what is your professional assessment of the *quality* of the Chromexcel leather which Horween sells? You haven’t said a word about that. It’s almost like your view is that all leather prepared by the same general method is equally good. That can’t be what you’re saying, surely?
Jan 15, 2018
Icefalkon
227
Jan 15, 2018
bookmark_border
tegeus-CromisI think they have a very nice product line. The suppleness of the leather is excellent and it has a nice feel. I remember about 6yrs ago, an associate of mine had a pair of Horween shoes (which I don't think they do anymore) and I checked them out. Very nice leather. He had said they were $2000 which is a good price for Horween shoes! I have seen/felt/scrutinized Chromexcel leather on two occasions. I loved the feel of the leather but was amazed that it looked and felt so close to bridle leather that's been worked. I even brought a friend in to feel it and check it out.
In summary, they have a great product that they sell as completely unique. If you buy that line, go for it.
Jan 15, 2018
Icefalkon
227
Jan 15, 2018
bookmark_border
LOL fantastic! You just got a real laugh out of me there!
I bet your buckles can sell on here for at LEAST $50 each...we should talk...lol
;)
Jan 15, 2018
TheSmallPotato
21
Jan 15, 2018
bookmark_border
IcefalkonThats not the point. I was pointing out that Chromexcel isn’t Bridle leather and they’re not tanned the same way. You were giving out misinformation. Bridle leather is soaked on wax on both sides, that’s just the definition of the leather. I didn’t say it felt waxy or whatever, yet somehow you just go on a rambling and continue to equate Bridle with CXL and argue about it. The fact is CXL is a pull up leather, bridle isn’t. They have different properties. They have different aesthetic. They’re not the same leather. No one here said which one was better, only you are. No one is schooling you anything because people are just simply pointing out facts. You are the only one who has a strong value judgment and emphasizes your background to attack me as hominem. You are the only person angry here at Horween for no reason because you’re comparing Apples to Oranges.
Lastly, nobody ever refers shoes as “Horween shoes”, since Horween is a tannery. Their Chromexcel is popular in shoes because it is pliable and looks rugged, and the pull up effect creates a nice patina. You can find it in $100 dollar shoes as well as $750 shoes like Viberg Because in shoes the cost of leather is minimal unless it’s shell. And please stop equating Chromexcel with Bridle. No one will use Bridle leather for shoes because it’s too thick, for the same reason why someone wants a pull up for belt over Bridle leather. They’re not the same type of leather.
Jan 15, 2018
Icefalkon
227
Jan 15, 2018
bookmark_border
TheSmallPotatoAwww what's the matter Small? LOL I wasn't giving out anything false here kiddo. I know the leather, this belt here isn't anything special at all. You're obviously a fanboy of CXL...so knock yourself out. Easy as that. Worked bridle isn't just "waxed on both sides"...what website did you copy that from I wonder? Hmmm...
Now lets go onto the fact that you've made this personal. You want to go down on the CXL guys...go for it. You buy that line of BS...go buy the belt. I believe I've said that over and over didn't I?
You believe everything the internet says is true too right? Please dude. Grow up.
Once again:
Proverbs 14:15
Jan 15, 2018
TheSmallPotato
21
Jan 15, 2018
bookmark_border
IcefalkonHow am I a fan boy? All I have said is one is pull up leather and the other isn’t? Did I ever say one was superior? You are the only one who insists on a normative statement and I disagree because you can’t say an apple is better than an orange with such assertion. I didn’t even defend this brand or leather, I was simply correcting you for erroneously equating CXL with Bridle.
I don’t have to believe the Internet. I HAVE a bridle belt and I have a Chromexcel belt, and they age completely different because they simply don’t have the same properties. I don’t know what your point is, just to argue for the sake of arguing?
You misunderstand my statement, attack me ad hominem, and then just accuse people for being a kiddo. The irony is real.
Jan 15, 2018
Icefalkon
227
Jan 15, 2018
bookmark_border
TheSmallPotatoCXL and Bridle isn't that far apart Small. That's a fact. Good bridle that's worked will give you the same feel as CXL. Now no one brought up AGING before you did right now. What has been asked was the difference and value between the two. I correctly stated that their CXL process is done all over the world and it's not the "big deal" that you've made it out to be.
As for you pointing out that the CXL tanning process is different from the bridle tanning process, yes of course that's true. However, what I was saying is that the CXL "process" isn't warranting the price tag for their belts and that good bridle will give you the same long lasting wear, the same feel, and heft. For a moment remember that this isn't a Horween belt, its a belt that's just made from leather that's been bought from Horween. The entire idea that the CXL process for a BELT makes it a worthy of such ridiculous praise is ridiculous.
Now as to why you're a fanboy. Don't try to pretend that you're not a fanboy sir. That comes through clear as a bell. As for me being in the industry...at my middle 50's and spending over 25yrs in leather procurement, belt and custom jacket making gives me insight into the topic.
Now lets be clear, Horween DOES indeed make custom shoes. That's first. Call them yourself if you like...as a matter of fact I strongly recommend it. Next, what exactly is "pull up leather" Small? You touting it as such a superior material lets give the audience a bit of insight into what it is....
Pull up leather is nubuck with a wax or oil finish. Hmm sounds like bridle right? Small is correct bridle is thicker but that depends on the hide it is coming from. Now lets discuss more of the "pull up" properties and where you find them. An easy simple way to differentiate "pull up" leather from other tanned leather is the ability to "write" on it using your fingernail. For instance, if you take that beat up leather nubuck leather briefcase that looks nice and distressed, and you use your fingernail to write your initials in it while you're bored...that's more than likely pull up leather. Pull up leather is common in work boots, leather furniture, etc. OK...why pull up over bridle? Pull up is more pliable, hence my statements about WORKED bridle, which is just as supple as pull up at a comparable thickness.
Now lets go into the CXL that Small seems to think is such is so great and unique to Horween...it's not. Period. Chrome tanning was first discovered in 1858 and the American chemist Shultz patented it here first. Not Horween. Lets move on...chrome tanning is the most common type of tanning today. It produces that blue color of the hide while it's still wet. Again, common. No big deal here...Chrome tanned leather is just about 95% of the leather made today. Yes 95%! So what makes this CXL anything special you may ask...? Yeah, that's what other leather experts have been asking since the 1980's lol. There is nothing special about it other than the line of BS that is told about it. If you are such a belt expert...because you know...you have a CXL belt and a bridle leather belt (good for you by the way)...you would have known all this already Small.
Now facts...chrome tanned leather is almost 100% used in ALL nubuck clothing...that's first, 95% of all SHOES are chrome tanned leather BTW..., 70% of furniture, 60% of belts etc...The point here is that there is no excuse for the price attached to and attributed to the CXL process. The only difference between the bridle and the CXL is the fact that CXL constitutes to about 1.5% of absorption of chrome while others using vegetable constitute 20% absorption. Chrome tanned leather has more tensile strength than veg tanned, but it's also thinner. Again, is there a big deal about chrome tanned leather? Ummm no. But hey, if you like the belt go for it.
Now onto the apples and oranges thing you keep putting out. Way back in the beginning this discussion took a turn when Church asked about bridle leather belts and that he paid an insane $100 for a veg tanned belt and said he never saw a bridle leather belt for the prices I stated. THAT'S where the debate came from. Had you read the entire thread you might have seen that.
Go buy the belt lol. I'm certainly not arguing just to entertain you. They're waiting for your order. So..there's no irony here telling you to grow up. Lets quote some of your earlier statements:
18 hours ago: What are you talking about? Chromexcel is proprietary to Horween. It is first chrome tanned and then vegetable tanned and goes under 89 process. It is a pull up leather that is pliable. Bridle leather is vegetable tanned and then stuffed with oils and wax on both sides in large amounts. It is thick and waxy. The two leathers are so different...why do you keep equating the two? This isn’t a bridle leather belt.
19 minutes ago: Thats not the point. I was pointing out that Chromexcel isn’t Bridle leather and they’re not tanned the same way. You were giving out misinformation. Bridle leather is soaked on wax on both sides, that’s just the definition of the leather. I didn’t say it felt waxy or whatever, yet somehow you just go on a rambling and continue to equate Bridle with CXL and argue about it. The fact is CXL is a pull up leather, bridle isn’t. They have different properties. They have different aesthetic. They’re not the same leather. No one here said which one was better, only you are. No one is schooling you anything because people are just simply pointing out facts. You are the only one who has a strong value judgment and emphasizes your background to attack me as hominem. You are the only person angry here at Horween for no reason because you’re comparing Apples to Oranges.
Now no one here is mad lol. You read somewhere the different ways bridle is tanned vs the one way CXL is supposedly tanned. I know the difference between pull up vs bridle lol. As a matter of fact I stated it above..
The fact that you type like a big fan of the CXL (chrome tanned leather phenomenon) without realizing the sheer commonality of it is why I called you a fan boy. Not too big a jump there is it? MY point here was that the leather does not justify the ridiculous prices charged for it. That you can get worked bridle that will give you the same look and feel. That's all. Period.
Jan 15, 2018
TheSmallPotato
21
Jan 16, 2018
bookmark_border
IcefalkonAgain, you're pulling the "which one is more superior" statement which never happened. I only said Chromexcel is a pull-up leather and it offers a different aesthetic than Bridle, and you can't really use Bridle leather as a substitute for that. I didn't say it was SPECIAL, I just said it was simply not the same. As you have also corroborated, Bridle is thicker and will also have a different aesthetic.
This is a fashion item. You are putting a lot of normative statements on things don't have value. For instance, you keep insisting that I said Chromexcel is worth more, which I didn't. I simply said it was not a substitute because Bridle doesn't have the pull-up effect. AGAIN you insist that I said pull-up is special, and I didn't. I just said one IS and one ISN'T. It is a fact, and you acknowledge that. Chromexcel is the original pull-up, and that is why they're most popularly used. Finally, you use the "superior" card again by for chrome-tanning, which NO one said was special. I just said CXL was chrome tanned followed by vegetable tanned, which is a fact, and is different from Bridle leather. I have never said ANYTHING about one being superior.
I've been trying to point out the differences between Bridle Leather and Chromexcel the entire time because you keep likening the two, and it differs a lot in aesthetic. I don't know why it is so hard for you to understand its not right to compare apples to oranges. Yet, you keep saying one is better than the other, just like how a plastic water bottle is better than a steel bottle. Sure, they both hold water, they're both old technologies, they're both found everywhere, and in your opinion one type might not be worth it, so what? No one said one is superior to the other, but simply that they're different product with different properties. Whether you're in the industry or not makes no difference to this fact.
I don't have a problem with you saying how Horween CXL isn't worth it. That's not my call. I have a problem with you equating everything and potentially misleading people with your opinions instead of fact. If you like apples and think it has better value than oranges, then go buy your apples. Don't mislead people and say it's very similar to each other (yes they're both fruits and very common) and therefore the orange isn't worth the price tag.
You are 50 and you are whining about brands? Do you ever ask why your wife wants a Gucci handbag, or do you just tell her there are similar Saffiano leather out here and berate her for being ripped off? I'm stopping here. I'm just going to end and summarize for everyone else that this drop is about Horween CXL belt. Buy it if you like the brand, the aesthetic, the pull-up effect, the weight, the thickness, or other qualities. If you want a belt with different properties, you should visit another drop, or make your own belt like @Icefalkon does.
Jan 16, 2018
treeinc
498
Mar 25, 2018
bookmark_border
ChurchillWI'd love to get your list of premium belt makers. Thanks treeinc@gmail.com
Mar 25, 2018
WatchConnsr
19
Apr 5, 2018
bookmark_border
treeincDid you happen to get the list ?
Apr 5, 2018
treeinc
498
Apr 5, 2018
bookmark_border
WatchConnsrNo. Like most blowhards when called on to back up something they've said, just go and stick their head in the sand.
Apr 5, 2018
ChurchillW
423
Apr 5, 2018
bookmark_border
treeincYou're looking for a list from Icefalkon, not me, right? I noticed you responded to my comment.
Apr 5, 2018
treeinc
498
Apr 5, 2018
bookmark_border
ChurchillWI am so confused by this entire conversation that I need a drink!
Apr 5, 2018
ChurchillW
423
Apr 5, 2018
bookmark_border
treeincPersonally I like Equus, Tannergoods, Gustin.
I've also heard of Narrangasett and Corter, which I have not tried personally.
Icefalkon says you can find the same type of belts for cheaper though.
Apr 5, 2018
View Full Discussion