Showing 1 of 57 conversations about:
Rosebud41
276
Apr 25, 2018
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Screams "I want a Rolex but can't afford one". I can get a fake on Canal Street for $50 with a lovely Seagull movement if I want that sort of thing. Which I don't...
Apr 25, 2018
Omegaman68
488
Apr 25, 2018
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Maybe it screams “I love the look of the Rolex Sub but I don’t want to spend 7 grand on a $1,500 watch. : )
Apr 25, 2018
Rosebud41
276
Apr 26, 2018
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Blasphemy! : D
I like the Sub look myself, but a Chinatown fake for $50 or an $85 Invicta 8926 can impress the casual observer well enough (or not - is anyone impressed by Rollies anymore?). One can also get the same watch design from Invicta with a Sellita SW200 for roughly $225, should you miss the Swiss. The Steinhart Ocean One someone mentioned is quite a nice watch and comes from a very solid company also. So end of the day, $400 for a clone from an obscure brand strikes me as money poorly spent. That same $400 could get one a nice original design diver from Zelos or Boldr (among many others) albeit not with an ETA. But if you want Swiss auto level accuracy, a Timex or Casio can oblige - as can your cell phone, so ETA fetishes never really made all that much sense to me.
Apr 26, 2018
Omegaman68
488
Apr 26, 2018
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I get what your saying and I do agree to a point. I have the invict 8926 with a Myota nmovement it has served me well for over ten years. My point was, for what your getting with this watch, ETA movement, Saphire, Swiss made it’s not a bad deal, not the best, but not bad for someone that wants a quality Swiss made diver made by a well established watch maker. These are made by Grovana under contract.
Apr 26, 2018
MadAnthonyWayne
52
Apr 27, 2018
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Actually, Grovana operates the Revue Thommen watch company and owns their facility. Trademarks are still owned by Thommen, which makes aviation instrumentation and are licensed to Grovana under the arrangement in which Grovana took over Thommen's watchmaking division.
Apr 27, 2018
MadAnthonyWayne
52
Apr 27, 2018
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Revue Thommen is anything but an "obscure brand". You're displaying incredible watch brand ignorance. As far as Rolex subs go, Rolex stole the design from Blancpain's Fifty Fathoms in the early 1950's. Rolex and the Rolex Fan Boyz can make NO legitimate claim to the Rolex Sub being remotely original.
Apr 27, 2018
Rosebud41
276
Apr 27, 2018
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You did a great job at Fallen Timbers, General, but need to develop your Wikipedia skills for the modern era,,,
Per that site:
" The year 2000 is a major mark in the company’s history. REVUE THOMMEN AG grants a license to the Swiss company Grovana Ltd. for the manufacturing and marketing of the REVUE THOMMEN wrist watch brand products, whereas REVUE THOMMEN AG focuses on its aircraft instrument business.
After the wrist watch business has departed, the company sets its feet into new territory by expanding its mechanical cockpit instrument business through the introduction of electronic aircraft equipment. "
Apr 27, 2018
Rosebud41
276
Apr 27, 2018
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Apr 27, 2018
Omegaman68
488
Apr 27, 2018
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Exactly. That’s what I meant, you did a better job of explaining it than I did. Thanks for the clarification.
Apr 27, 2018
Rosebud41
276
Apr 27, 2018
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But I guess they are still really authentic and all, eh?
Apr 27, 2018
Omegaman68
488
Apr 27, 2018
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Well said.
Apr 27, 2018
Omegaman68
488
Apr 27, 2018
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Also, Grovana is not an “obscure brand “ either.
Apr 27, 2018
MadAnthonyWayne
52
Apr 27, 2018
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You dredge up an article printed in a Chinese publication from three years ago. The facts in them are not completely correct. Revue Thommen remains a brand sold under Grovana. http://www.grovana.ch/revue-thommen.html You can always call Grovana and tell them they're full of crap. I believe the phone numbers for them in Switzerland are on that web site and there's a listing of the current corporate staff as well. They will certainly welcome the news.
What's really going on is an effort to launch the RT brand into the Chinese market, which is what the guy did with Chopard. There's a market for Swiss watches in China as the folks with money there are ravenous for luxury goods. It's all about prestige, image and one upmanship with your neighbor and the guy in the office next to yours. However, dealing with the Chinese government and tons of bureaucratic nonsense and regulations can become stifling. Trying to market products in China that aren't made in China is difficult at best, even for the largest corporations.
Apr 27, 2018
Rosebud41
276
Apr 27, 2018
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My point is that this brand has no coherent line of tradition going back to 1853. They muddled along until 2000 and then sold an unprofitable brand name to another party. That other party has struggled with the brand since then and is reduced to selling $400 Sub clones on MD. Yes, they have a $120 ETA movement in them. Woo hoo. I'd rather have a NH35 in a more original design.
I admire both tradition and innovation equally, and, to a lesser extent, value. I fail to see how a "disembodied" brand name selling a $400 clone of a $7K watch is any of that.
I am no worshipper at the altar of Rolex - far from it! Everyone should own innovative timepiece designs at whatever price point they are comfy with - a $135 Orient, a $750 Viking, a $4,000 Omega or Tudor - all good stuff. But fake tradition cites (a la Ball) and shameless copying at a $400 price tag do not impress me.
Apr 27, 2018
MadAnthonyWayne
52
Apr 27, 2018
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A look at the current RT, or the parent company Grovana catalogs does not give the impression Revue Thommen or Grovana have been reduced to selling "Rollie sub clones" (which are actually Blancpain FF clones) on MassDrop. It's clear to me that you haven't done so. These are no more clones than a Steinhart Ocean. If someone wants a "clone" they need to find an Invicta, but that's a brand I wouldn't recommend to my worst enemy, and these are a quantum leap over the Invictas.
RT is hardly a "disembodied brand", and your characterization of the company reads like the poor waif who must become a prostitute down in the slums, having to step over the vomiting winos to sell her body, to avoid becoming homeless. You're clueless about them. Thommen wanted out of the watch making business. Grovana took it over, including all its facilities, employees, and production equipment and that's been its current state even with some subsequent management changes and an effort to break into marketing their watch line in China. That hardly "disembodies" a brand. Disembodiment would be assuming the trademarks and other intellectual properties, firing everyone and liquidating all their capital assets. If your criteria is Grovana assuming control of Thommen's former watch division lock, stock and barrel, and keeping them operating in Switzerland, I don't believe there's a single watch brand that isn't "disembodied" by your definition. Two examples of a real "disembodied brand" would be Elgin and Gruen, whose trademarks were bought and everything except that liquidated into obvlivion. Last I knew, both those brands were owned by MZ Berger and he's been making cheap quartz watches in China with their brand trademarks on them for some years now.
The "sub" diver is universally the most popular mechanical watch around the world, and I've no doubt it's the reason they're being offered on MD versus some other RT model. It's apparent you don't want one, so don't buy one. The price here is a fair street price for them. It's not a Smokin' Deal super bargain but it's better than the normal street price for them.
Apr 27, 2018
Rosebud41
276
Apr 27, 2018
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P'raps Wilkinson was right about you...
Apr 27, 2018
MadAnthonyWayne
52
Apr 28, 2018
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I've got many dozens watches from God only knows how many different brands spanning God only knows how many different movement calibers from Switzerland, Japan, Russia and China, and some of them are Swiss brands North Americans would never recognize as they're not marketed here (Atlantic and Epos are just two examples). I'm not going to buy into this MassDrop because I already have the Grovana labeled version of this watch. It is exceptional in fit and finish, and it is most definitely not a "Rollie Sub" wannabe. Hold it next to a Steinhart Ocean and it looks identical (other than brand logo). Hold it next to a Rollie Sub and it's obvious it's not a clone nor is it trying to be one.
The closest example of a recent Swiss "disembodied brand" I'm aware of is Zodiac, now owned by Fossil, who have all but destroyed the respect the brand once had, turning it into a designer watch kiosk brand alongside the Fossil watches. Fossil tried to continue the brand with its "Swiss Made" mystique, after dumping every Swiss asset it had when they acquired it, to include some smoke and mirrors with a Claro-Semag movement from China, and it didn't work. Zodiac is an example of a disembodied Swiss brand and I thank God I got one of their last Astrographic 2000 watches just before Fossil bought the brand trademarks.
I don't believe you truly understand Swiss thinking and their World View. You could gain great insight from looking at how Carl Elsener of Victorinox acquired Wenger to prevent them from going under and being liquidated. The former Wenger works in Delemont are still in production, making former Wenger knives with some modifications, under the Victorinox label. North Americans, those in the USA in particular, saw it as a hostile takeover to completely crush and totally obliterate all competition for the "Swiss Army Knife", in a classic example of the hostile takeover that completely liquidates a company to erase their existence from the face of the Earth. That's not the Swiss view the business world. Elesener's motive was to prevent the brand from being disembodied and resurrected like Gruen and Elgin were, or in how Fossil handled Zodiac. He did not want to see their plant closed and all their workers unemployed either. How Elsener and Victorinox have absorbed Wenger, its capital assets and its facilities, keeping them operating along with most of the former Wenger employees speaks volumes. Grovana assuming operating control of the Thommen watch division isn't much different.
Grasshopper, you have much to learn. I don't have a vested interest in this particular MassDrop, but I won't stand idly by and see a well respected Swiss watch brand slandered and libeled in the manner you have. If this were Zodiac and its current brand ownership (by Fossil) you wouldn't have much argument from me. This history of Revue Thommen and the management of the brand isn't much different from the dozen and a half brands currently in the Swatch Group. Will you now claim they're all disembodied brands? Breguet? Jaquet Droz?Blancpain? Omega? Rado? Longines? Valjoux? Unitas? Peseux? ETA? I don't think so, not with any modicum of credulity. The Swatch Group operates much like a Stiftung without actually being one.
Those that want a classic diver with similarities to the Fifty Fathoms and Submariner can get one at a decent price from a respected Swiss brand. They're not a one-trick pony and have a large range of watches under the Revue Thommen name alone. It's enormous when all the other brands under Grovana are included: Transglobe, Swiss Alpine Military, Philippe de Chéron, and Election. I invite you once again to call Grovana to inform them one of their brands is now owned by the Chinese. They'll certainly be glad to hear the news . . . after they somehow lost it and didn't know where to find it. Perhaps you can wangle a Finder's Fee out of them for it.
Apr 28, 2018
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