Scythe Preorder Discussions | Drop

Jul 28, 2016

If anyone knows who ran this drop, please contact me at stonemaiergames@gmail.com. This is an unauthorized drop, and there is a very good chance it's not legitimate. It's definitely not authorized by me (the publisher).

Hova

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesYeah I recently received my kickstarter copy of this game and love it. I thought it a bit odd to have it go on sale when not all Kickstarter copies have been received yet.

Vote

Henry_L

659

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesHey Jamey, someone will be reaching out to you shortly to alleviate any concerns that you might have.

Jul 28, 2016

Henry_LI haven't heard anything yet, Henry. We're not going to sell a single copy of Scythe to this vendor, so they're not going to be able to fulfill any of these orders.

JameyisDumb

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesLol how cute, thinking you can prevent this.

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesJust a heads up Jamey but vendors don't run drops on here. Massdrop runs them and contacts distributors/companies on their own who then send them product. So they may be getting their product from one of your distributors. Not sure if that helps you out at all.

Jul 28, 2016

DelerrarYes, I understand that the vendor isn't running the drop, but they (most likely a retailer, though it could be a distributor) are selling the games directly to Massdrop. It's a coordinated effort between Massdrop and the vendor.

JameyisDumb

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesGasp! Free market capitalism, how terrible!

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesI'd assume they'd have to go to one of your distributors to be able to get the kind of quantity that they generally need to get drops off the ground. Most retailers wouldn't be able to hold onto a large enough stockpile for it to be worth Massdrops time to contact them. Especially with this seeming to be a preorder. I won't comment on Massdrops perception because it's never struck me as a liquidation site just a "hey if enough people are interested we might be able to get a group deal on a mass purchase" site. But that could just be me.

Jul 28, 2016

DelerrarRight, the retailer will end up buying these games from a distributor, but if the distributor learns who it is, they're not going to sell them any of these games. While the consumer perception may vary from person to person, the retailer/distributor perception when they see this is that they may think that the publisher (me) is bypassing them and selling an unreleased game on Massdrop. Massdrop could at least clarify that position on the page.

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesWell it's fairly clear on the page that this is a preorder drop. Again though Massdrop will have to have gone to one of your distributors (not a retailer) to get enough copies for the drop and make it affordable. If they were going to a retailer there's absolutely no way they could get a mass putchase deal put together because that's not a viable business strategy for retailers, it's only something distributors can do.

Jul 28, 2016

DelerrarRight, but some drops are coordinated between Massdrop and the publisher, and it's not clear at all on the page that this isn't the case here. Also, if there is a distributor selling a pre-order product to Massdrop, I can assure you that retailers are going to want to know about that, and they're not going to be happy about it.

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesFrom my understanding they only ever do that when the publisher is also the distributor. Otherwise they just contact the distributor and go from there. But I could be wrong. I'm not sure why retailers would care, Massdrop is basically a small scale wholesaler and this deal is basically the same as Minature Mart's and CoolStuff's preorder.

Jul 28, 2016

DelerrarAsk a few retailers to see if they care. Maybe not Miniature Market and Cool Stuff, but there are thousands of other retailers out there.

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesBut both of those retailers have sold your game for this price (give or take a few bucks, in fact CS' preorder was cheaper than this drop by a couple bucks) so there's already a precedent for this game being priced here. Are you upset with them for selling at that price and upsetting your other retailers?

Jul 28, 2016

DelerrarOf course I would prefer that they Scythe at a price that is more indicative of the value. But those are real retailers. Massdrop is for liquidation and overstocks (and cheap Magic boxes, apparently).

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesI feel like the high end audio and watch companies that do drops here would disagree with you. Massdrop isn't a liquidation site. They're simple a site that allows consumers to get wholesale pricing on products they want to purchase. I can't count the number of drops I've seen that haven't happened here because a distributor has been out of product that Massdrop has been looking to purchase. Which wouldn't be the case of this was a liquidation site like you claim. So again unless you're cutting off MM and CS you're being a bit of a hypocrite.

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesLiquidation and overstock? Is that why they're selling GTX 1070s and 1080s? Guess those are already on clearance too...
Massdrop is also seen as an entity securing hard to find and limited stock items for group buys. If you want an example of another game, when Suddenly Drunk was completely sold out a few months ago Mass Drop secured a pre order because the game was scarce.

Jul 28, 2016

DelerrarMassdrop is perceived as a group discount site. That's not good for any brand. MM and CS know about our 35% guidelines, and they follow them, especially for pre-orders.

Jul 28, 2016

incredibobHow is a pre-order product "hard to find"? By its nature, no one has it yet. That isn't the case with Scythe, nor is there a scarcity of Scythe. We have several huge print runs on the way.

ted

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesif you look at the product selection you will see five other preorders up on massdrop right now, I'm pretty sure they aren't being fulfilled with overstocked inventory...

ted

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesshow me another site where you can buy it.

Jul 28, 2016

tedI agree. But do you think the publishers of those products want their products on this discount site? Like, the Dollar Store can buy and sell my games if they want to, but that doesn't mean I like the perception it conveys.

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesYou argue that the game needs to retain value while you proclaim you're about to flood the market? You're really making this much of a fuss over $2.81 undercut from real 'discount' game sites?

kawarazu

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesI understand your concerns, but honestly I think the market here will *not* care about how you feel about the pricing arrangement here, and any further messages will be seen as "being whiny" which just isn't an image that's worth portraying. Given that you care, I will not be preordering from Massdrop, but these folks already have and intend to.

Jul 28, 2016

incredibobFlood the market? No, we're trying to provide enough games to meet demand. If you read the comments here, you'll see that the price undercutting is a very small part of my concern.

Jul 28, 2016

kawarazuThat's fine, and I appreciate that. I'm happy to stick up for the retailers and distributors that my company depends on, and I'm sorry if that comes across as me being "whiny."

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesNow that I think about it I regret the hypocrit comment. I think you just don't understand how Massdrop works. No one contacts them because they have overstock and want to get rid of it. The community votes on what they would like to purchase, if there's enough interest Massdrop approaches a distributer and goes from there. How is being featured on a group purchasing site is bad for a brand? If I were you I'd be ecstatic that so many people were interested in buying my product.
Again this is being sold for the same price as MM and CS sold it for. so it's not like they're undercutting anyone.

kawarazu

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesI don't mean it as a personal attack, I mean it plainly as an observation of how folks on the web are reacting to this. You won't be able to stop this Massdrop, barring discovering the distributor (of which there might be none at this moment), and stopping it will not help.
Hell, it might be thoroughly possible that Massdrop will sell at a loss after buying at near full price from a distributor and resell at a loss for the sake of having the additional clients from this event. It might be that you will have to build a whitelist of distributors than intending to blacklist the one bad one.
I'm just saying, maybe just accept that this will go through and mitigate this problem on the next release of games.

Jul 28, 2016

DelerrarSure, I know how it works. They don't just contact distributors--they contact publishers too. When someone sees something like this on Massdrop, they think, "Wow, is the company really that desperate to sell their product to a discount outlet?" That is not good for a brand.
Scythe is on Miniature market for $52.80 (not $49.99). Again, as the publisher, I sell to distributors at the same price--I'm not losing money on this deal. But my relationships with consumers, retailers, and distributors are very important, and this deal is not good for those relationships. I understand that you all are happy that you're getting an $80 game for $50, and I'm happy you're excited for Scythe.

Jul 28, 2016

kawarazuNo worries, I don't feel attacked--you're being very reasonable, and I appreciate the input. You're right, there might be nothing I can do about this, and perhaps I shouldn't have said anything in the first place. I don't like how it reflects on Scythe, but I understand that some retailers will sell our products at a steep discount. I just feel bad for retailers who can't afford to sell games at such small margins.

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesI think Delerrar hit the nail on the head that you're viewing this backwards. Massdrop doesn't select it's products based on overstock, it selects them based on community interest. The fact that there is a drop for your game is proof of it's popularity among the active user base here. I've been excited for this game for a while and I know this drop isn't impacting my view of your game. I missed the kickstarter but am looking at getting a collector's edition through you for the extras rather than this drop. But I wouldn't have known about your upgraded editions without the discussion here. Enjoy the free publicity and good luck!

kawarazu

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesJust trying to keep it real. Hope no one blames you for this interesting blip in your business's life. :)

Jul 28, 2016

incredibobI'm glad to hear the drop isn't impacting your view of the game. While it's most important for me to look out for my relationships with retailers and distributors at this point in a product's lifecycle (now that Kickstarter fulfillment is coming to a close), I definitely don't want Scythe to be viewed as a discount-bin product before it's even released! :)

Protatoe

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesThis seems to be a pretty niche and inaccurate perception of what massdrop is. Your comments here have reflected far worse on Scythe then its appearance on massdrop

Jul 28, 2016

ProtatoeI'm fine with that. I think it's important for someone to stick up for retailers who can't afford these types of discount-bin margins.

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesHahaha discount bin prices. They're 2.50$ below a vendor you seem perfectly content to allow to sell at a discount. And again you seem to really miss what Massdrop is. It's a community driven site just like Kickstarter. The community decides they want something and Massdrop goes out and gets the wholesale prices on the product for them. It's no different than if I phined up your distributor and asked them how many games I'd need to buy to get a wholesale price because I have a large group of gamers in my city that would like to buy it wholesale instead of retail.
And that's something that I can and have done before. So I guess you should really be upset that your distributors don't sell the game at sticker price to retailers and the public.

Jul 28, 2016

DelerrarMy pre-order price for the retail version of Scythe was $69. I'm most certainly not content with retailers accepting pre-orders at huge discounts. I think if the retailers I'm sticking up for found out that a distributor was selling to you at wholesale prices, they would not be pleased, just as they would not be pleased if they thought I was involved with this Massdrop in any way. I've asked Massdrop to edit the project page to reflect that, and they still have not done so.

timechange

153

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesHuge huge congrats on what looks like an AMAZING game that I cannot wait to buy and play! For what it's worth, I just wanted to let you know that Massdrop to many of us is the exact opposite of an overstock or discounter - - for me, Massdrop and more importantly its community of enthusiasts are what got me into boardgames over the past year, leading to far more spending than I would have ever done on my own on traditional sites like Amazon, cool mini, etc....more importantly the site and people here have been a key source of curation , inspiration and discovery for me to get deeper and deeper into the hobby -- especially for new games like Scythe.
I'd love for you to give working directly with Massdrop and its community a shot - I think you'll find that many of us aren't even looking for "discount" pricing but also the chance to spend even more on unique bundles or extra premium versions (e.g. All expansions in one bundle, limited edition premium extras, game inserts and storage solutions, sleeves, painting gear for minis, etc).
Thank you again for all you do and putting out such amazing work and products! We're ultimately all here to support you, and I just wanted to let you know why Massdrop is so special to many of us - for me especially, it's simply more FUN to buy through Massdrop and get to discover, discuss, debate and Geek out with fellow enthusiasts as part of the purchase process. :)
PS- (This community is also deeply knowledgeable and can be a highly useful forum for product feedback and tweaks - like they have done for audiophile headphones, mechanical keyboards and more. Not only do we give wish list feedback but we'll also pre order those potential products and bundles!) ;)

Jul 28, 2016

timechangeWell said--thank you for your well-worded comment. It appears that my perception of Massdrop may be different than what it really is, and your comment has by far been the most effective at helping me understand it. Thank you!
I should note that I have used Massdrop in the past. Massdrop contacted me about 6 months ago about putting Euphoria on the site. I was intrigued by it (at the time I knew next to nothing about it, and I like experimenting), so I gave it a try. I think that's had a big impact on my perception of the site, as my communication with Massdrop indicated that they were all about the discount (and I think that's a huge part of the site's mission--otherwise they would offer higher prices) and that they often approached publishers directly. Hence my concern when I learned about this drop, which I was worried that people (particularly retailers and distributors, but also consumers) would perceive as something I was involved with.
But again, I appreciate your comment, and I'm glad Massdrop is a fun community for you to be involved with.

timechange

153

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesGood points - thanks again! And if there's any way to do a mega premium bundle with Massdrop around Scythe, I'll be the first customer! ;)

Jul 28, 2016

timechangeWe're actually selling all remaining KS copies of Scythe on Monday. :) http://stonemaiergames.com/buy-scythe/

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesBut again MM and CS sold the game in preorder for 52.99$. Think of the extra 2.50$ as Massdrop just knocking off 2.50 from the shipping price instead (which is probably what they're actually doing but I'm not American and can't participate in the drop).
And of course they're after getting better discounts for their customers that's literally their business model.
And retailers may not like that distributors will sell wholesale to the public but they do. Because I've done that a few times in the past. you do need to order a lot usually though.

Jul 28, 2016

stonemaiergamesI resonate with timechange's comment. If your 'brand' is the biggest worry you have here, then I urge you to embrace Massdrop. Personally, I consider the products and games that are on here as the best and most unique of their kind because they have been vetted by a community of my peers. If people didn't request and vote for an item, it doesn't show up here. They didn't contact you looking to fire sale overstock, they contact companies because their community has requested them to broker a deal for a group buy. This site isn't a bargain bin; it's a stamp of recommendation!