Showing 1 of 70 conversations about:
stonemaiergames
228
Jul 28, 2016
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If anyone knows who ran this drop, please contact me at stonemaiergames@gmail.com. This is an unauthorized drop, and there is a very good chance it's not legitimate. It's definitely not authorized by me (the publisher).
Jul 28, 2016
Hova
52
Jul 28, 2016
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Yeah I recently received my kickstarter copy of this game and love it. I thought it a bit odd to have it go on sale when not all Kickstarter copies have been received yet.
Jul 28, 2016
Henry_L
657
Jul 28, 2016
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Hey Jamey, someone will be reaching out to you shortly to alleviate any concerns that you might have.
Jul 28, 2016
stonemaiergames
228
Jul 28, 2016
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I haven't heard anything yet, Henry. We're not going to sell a single copy of Scythe to this vendor, so they're not going to be able to fulfill any of these orders.
Jul 28, 2016
JameyisDumb
26
Jul 28, 2016
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Lol how cute, thinking you can prevent this.
Jul 28, 2016
Delerrar
66
Jul 28, 2016
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Just a heads up Jamey but vendors don't run drops on here. Massdrop runs them and contacts distributors/companies on their own who then send them product. So they may be getting their product from one of your distributors. Not sure if that helps you out at all.
Jul 28, 2016
stonemaiergames
228
Jul 28, 2016
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Yes, I understand that the vendor isn't running the drop, but they (most likely a retailer, though it could be a distributor) are selling the games directly to Massdrop. It's a coordinated effort between Massdrop and the vendor.
Jul 28, 2016
JameyisDumb
26
Jul 28, 2016
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Gasp! Free market capitalism, how terrible!
Jul 28, 2016
Delerrar
66
Jul 28, 2016
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I'd assume they'd have to go to one of your distributors to be able to get the kind of quantity that they generally need to get drops off the ground. Most retailers wouldn't be able to hold onto a large enough stockpile for it to be worth Massdrops time to contact them. Especially with this seeming to be a preorder. I won't comment on Massdrops perception because it's never struck me as a liquidation site just a "hey if enough people are interested we might be able to get a group deal on a mass purchase" site. But that could just be me.
Jul 28, 2016
stonemaiergames
228
Jul 28, 2016
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Right, the retailer will end up buying these games from a distributor, but if the distributor learns who it is, they're not going to sell them any of these games. While the consumer perception may vary from person to person, the retailer/distributor perception when they see this is that they may think that the publisher (me) is bypassing them and selling an unreleased game on Massdrop. Massdrop could at least clarify that position on the page.
Jul 28, 2016
Delerrar
66
Jul 28, 2016
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Well it's fairly clear on the page that this is a preorder drop. Again though Massdrop will have to have gone to one of your distributors (not a retailer) to get enough copies for the drop and make it affordable. If they were going to a retailer there's absolutely no way they could get a mass putchase deal put together because that's not a viable business strategy for retailers, it's only something distributors can do.
Jul 28, 2016
stonemaiergames
228
Jul 28, 2016
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Right, but some drops are coordinated between Massdrop and the publisher, and it's not clear at all on the page that this isn't the case here. Also, if there is a distributor selling a pre-order product to Massdrop, I can assure you that retailers are going to want to know about that, and they're not going to be happy about it.
Jul 28, 2016
Delerrar
66
Jul 28, 2016
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From my understanding they only ever do that when the publisher is also the distributor. Otherwise they just contact the distributor and go from there. But I could be wrong. I'm not sure why retailers would care, Massdrop is basically a small scale wholesaler and this deal is basically the same as Minature Mart's and CoolStuff's preorder.
Jul 28, 2016
stonemaiergames
228
Jul 28, 2016
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Ask a few retailers to see if they care. Maybe not Miniature Market and Cool Stuff, but there are thousands of other retailers out there.
Jul 28, 2016
Delerrar
66
Jul 28, 2016
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But both of those retailers have sold your game for this price (give or take a few bucks, in fact CS' preorder was cheaper than this drop by a couple bucks) so there's already a precedent for this game being priced here. Are you upset with them for selling at that price and upsetting your other retailers?
Jul 28, 2016
stonemaiergames
228
Jul 28, 2016
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Of course I would prefer that they Scythe at a price that is more indicative of the value. But those are real retailers. Massdrop is for liquidation and overstocks (and cheap Magic boxes, apparently).
Jul 28, 2016
Delerrar
66
Jul 28, 2016
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I feel like the high end audio and watch companies that do drops here would disagree with you. Massdrop isn't a liquidation site. They're simple a site that allows consumers to get wholesale pricing on products they want to purchase. I can't count the number of drops I've seen that haven't happened here because a distributor has been out of product that Massdrop has been looking to purchase. Which wouldn't be the case of this was a liquidation site like you claim. So again unless you're cutting off MM and CS you're being a bit of a hypocrite.
Jul 28, 2016
incredibob
35
Jul 28, 2016
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Liquidation and overstock? Is that why they're selling GTX 1070s and 1080s? Guess those are already on clearance too...
Massdrop is also seen as an entity securing hard to find and limited stock items for group buys. If you want an example of another game, when Suddenly Drunk was completely sold out a few months ago Mass Drop secured a pre order because the game was scarce.
Jul 28, 2016
stonemaiergames
228
Jul 28, 2016
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Massdrop is perceived as a group discount site. That's not good for any brand. MM and CS know about our 35% guidelines, and they follow them, especially for pre-orders.
Jul 28, 2016
stonemaiergames
228
Jul 28, 2016
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How is a pre-order product "hard to find"? By its nature, no one has it yet. That isn't the case with Scythe, nor is there a scarcity of Scythe. We have several huge print runs on the way.
Jul 28, 2016
ted
57
Jul 28, 2016
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if you look at the product selection you will see five other preorders up on massdrop right now, I'm pretty sure they aren't being fulfilled with overstocked inventory...
Jul 28, 2016
ted
57
Jul 28, 2016
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show me another site where you can buy it.
Jul 28, 2016
stonemaiergames
228
Jul 28, 2016
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I agree. But do you think the publishers of those products want their products on this discount site? Like, the Dollar Store can buy and sell my games if they want to, but that doesn't mean I like the perception it conveys.
Jul 28, 2016
incredibob
35
Jul 28, 2016
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You argue that the game needs to retain value while you proclaim you're about to flood the market? You're really making this much of a fuss over $2.81 undercut from real 'discount' game sites?
Jul 28, 2016
kawarazu
44
Jul 28, 2016
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I understand your concerns, but honestly I think the market here will *not* care about how you feel about the pricing arrangement here, and any further messages will be seen as "being whiny" which just isn't an image that's worth portraying. Given that you care, I will not be preordering from Massdrop, but these folks already have and intend to.
Jul 28, 2016
stonemaiergames
228
Jul 28, 2016
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Flood the market? No, we're trying to provide enough games to meet demand. If you read the comments here, you'll see that the price undercutting is a very small part of my concern.
Jul 28, 2016
stonemaiergames
228
Jul 28, 2016
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That's fine, and I appreciate that. I'm happy to stick up for the retailers and distributors that my company depends on, and I'm sorry if that comes across as me being "whiny."
Jul 28, 2016
Delerrar
66
Jul 28, 2016
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Now that I think about it I regret the hypocrit comment. I think you just don't understand how Massdrop works. No one contacts them because they have overstock and want to get rid of it. The community votes on what they would like to purchase, if there's enough interest Massdrop approaches a distributer and goes from there. How is being featured on a group purchasing site is bad for a brand? If I were you I'd be ecstatic that so many people were interested in buying my product.
Again this is being sold for the same price as MM and CS sold it for. so it's not like they're undercutting anyone.
Jul 28, 2016
kawarazu
44
Jul 28, 2016
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I don't mean it as a personal attack, I mean it plainly as an observation of how folks on the web are reacting to this. You won't be able to stop this Massdrop, barring discovering the distributor (of which there might be none at this moment), and stopping it will not help.
Hell, it might be thoroughly possible that Massdrop will sell at a loss after buying at near full price from a distributor and resell at a loss for the sake of having the additional clients from this event. It might be that you will have to build a whitelist of distributors than intending to blacklist the one bad one.
I'm just saying, maybe just accept that this will go through and mitigate this problem on the next release of games.
Jul 28, 2016
stonemaiergames
228
Jul 28, 2016
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Sure, I know how it works. They don't just contact distributors--they contact publishers too. When someone sees something like this on Massdrop, they think, "Wow, is the company really that desperate to sell their product to a discount outlet?" That is not good for a brand.
Scythe is on Miniature market for $52.80 (not $49.99). Again, as the publisher, I sell to distributors at the same price--I'm not losing money on this deal. But my relationships with consumers, retailers, and distributors are very important, and this deal is not good for those relationships. I understand that you all are happy that you're getting an $80 game for $50, and I'm happy you're excited for Scythe.
Jul 28, 2016
stonemaiergames
228
Jul 28, 2016
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No worries, I don't feel attacked--you're being very reasonable, and I appreciate the input. You're right, there might be nothing I can do about this, and perhaps I shouldn't have said anything in the first place. I don't like how it reflects on Scythe, but I understand that some retailers will sell our products at a steep discount. I just feel bad for retailers who can't afford to sell games at such small margins.
Jul 28, 2016
incredibob
35
Jul 28, 2016
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I think Delerrar hit the nail on the head that you're viewing this backwards. Massdrop doesn't select it's products based on overstock, it selects them based on community interest. The fact that there is a drop for your game is proof of it's popularity among the active user base here. I've been excited for this game for a while and I know this drop isn't impacting my view of your game. I missed the kickstarter but am looking at getting a collector's edition through you for the extras rather than this drop. But I wouldn't have known about your upgraded editions without the discussion here. Enjoy the free publicity and good luck!
Jul 28, 2016
kawarazu
44
Jul 28, 2016
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Just trying to keep it real. Hope no one blames you for this interesting blip in your business's life. :)
Jul 28, 2016
stonemaiergames
228
Jul 28, 2016
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I'm glad to hear the drop isn't impacting your view of the game. While it's most important for me to look out for my relationships with retailers and distributors at this point in a product's lifecycle (now that Kickstarter fulfillment is coming to a close), I definitely don't want Scythe to be viewed as a discount-bin product before it's even released! :)
Jul 28, 2016
Protatoe
21
Jul 28, 2016
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This seems to be a pretty niche and inaccurate perception of what massdrop is. Your comments here have reflected far worse on Scythe then its appearance on massdrop
Jul 28, 2016
stonemaiergames
228
Jul 28, 2016
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I'm fine with that. I think it's important for someone to stick up for retailers who can't afford these types of discount-bin margins.
Jul 28, 2016
Delerrar
66
Jul 28, 2016
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Hahaha discount bin prices. They're 2.50$ below a vendor you seem perfectly content to allow to sell at a discount. And again you seem to really miss what Massdrop is. It's a community driven site just like Kickstarter. The community decides they want something and Massdrop goes out and gets the wholesale prices on the product for them. It's no different than if I phined up your distributor and asked them how many games I'd need to buy to get a wholesale price because I have a large group of gamers in my city that would like to buy it wholesale instead of retail.
And that's something that I can and have done before. So I guess you should really be upset that your distributors don't sell the game at sticker price to retailers and the public.
Jul 28, 2016
stonemaiergames
228
Jul 28, 2016
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My pre-order price for the retail version of Scythe was $69. I'm most certainly not content with retailers accepting pre-orders at huge discounts. I think if the retailers I'm sticking up for found out that a distributor was selling to you at wholesale prices, they would not be pleased, just as they would not be pleased if they thought I was involved with this Massdrop in any way. I've asked Massdrop to edit the project page to reflect that, and they still have not done so.
Jul 28, 2016
timechange
153
Jul 28, 2016
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Huge huge congrats on what looks like an AMAZING game that I cannot wait to buy and play! For what it's worth, I just wanted to let you know that Massdrop to many of us is the exact opposite of an overstock or discounter - - for me, Massdrop and more importantly its community of enthusiasts are what got me into boardgames over the past year, leading to far more spending than I would have ever done on my own on traditional sites like Amazon, cool mini, etc....more importantly the site and people here have been a key source of curation , inspiration and discovery for me to get deeper and deeper into the hobby -- especially for new games like Scythe.
I'd love for you to give working directly with Massdrop and its community a shot - I think you'll find that many of us aren't even looking for "discount" pricing but also the chance to spend even more on unique bundles or extra premium versions (e.g. All expansions in one bundle, limited edition premium extras, game inserts and storage solutions, sleeves, painting gear for minis, etc).
Thank you again for all you do and putting out such amazing work and products! We're ultimately all here to support you, and I just wanted to let you know why Massdrop is so special to many of us - for me especially, it's simply more FUN to buy through Massdrop and get to discover, discuss, debate and Geek out with fellow enthusiasts as part of the purchase process. :)
PS- (This community is also deeply knowledgeable and can be a highly useful forum for product feedback and tweaks - like they have done for audiophile headphones, mechanical keyboards and more. Not only do we give wish list feedback but we'll also pre order those potential products and bundles!) ;)
Jul 28, 2016
stonemaiergames
228
Jul 28, 2016
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Well said--thank you for your well-worded comment. It appears that my perception of Massdrop may be different than what it really is, and your comment has by far been the most effective at helping me understand it. Thank you!
I should note that I have used Massdrop in the past. Massdrop contacted me about 6 months ago about putting Euphoria on the site. I was intrigued by it (at the time I knew next to nothing about it, and I like experimenting), so I gave it a try. I think that's had a big impact on my perception of the site, as my communication with Massdrop indicated that they were all about the discount (and I think that's a huge part of the site's mission--otherwise they would offer higher prices) and that they often approached publishers directly. Hence my concern when I learned about this drop, which I was worried that people (particularly retailers and distributors, but also consumers) would perceive as something I was involved with.
But again, I appreciate your comment, and I'm glad Massdrop is a fun community for you to be involved with.
Jul 28, 2016
timechange
153
Jul 28, 2016
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Good points - thanks again! And if there's any way to do a mega premium bundle with Massdrop around Scythe, I'll be the first customer! ;)
Jul 28, 2016
stonemaiergames
228
Jul 28, 2016
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We're actually selling all remaining KS copies of Scythe on Monday. :) http://stonemaiergames.com/buy-scythe/
Jul 28, 2016
Delerrar
66
Jul 28, 2016
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But again MM and CS sold the game in preorder for 52.99$. Think of the extra 2.50$ as Massdrop just knocking off 2.50 from the shipping price instead (which is probably what they're actually doing but I'm not American and can't participate in the drop).
And of course they're after getting better discounts for their customers that's literally their business model.
And retailers may not like that distributors will sell wholesale to the public but they do. Because I've done that a few times in the past. you do need to order a lot usually though.
Jul 28, 2016
incredibob
35
Jul 28, 2016
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I resonate with timechange's comment. If your 'brand' is the biggest worry you have here, then I urge you to embrace Massdrop. Personally, I consider the products and games that are on here as the best and most unique of their kind because they have been vetted by a community of my peers. If people didn't request and vote for an item, it doesn't show up here. They didn't contact you looking to fire sale overstock, they contact companies because their community has requested them to broker a deal for a group buy. This site isn't a bargain bin; it's a stamp of recommendation!
Jul 28, 2016
stonemaiergames
228
Jul 28, 2016
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That's an interesting way of looking at it, and I'm all those things as you stated there! I'm still not sure why firesale prices are required to achieve those goals, but hey, I wonder the same about other deep-discount retailers. :)
Jul 28, 2016
TheRandy
3
Jul 28, 2016
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That is awesome to hear. I've already signed up on your site to get notice of the upgraded versions being available. BTW- I completely agree with your stance on this topic. Last- I played a game of Scythe last weekend and it's fantastic!!
Jul 28, 2016
beerdoodle
6
Jul 29, 2016
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CoolStuffInc offers customer loyalty discounts. I currently get a 3% discount on anything at CSI which would get me the game for $51.40. If I get one friend to order it with me (or any other game(s), as long as it's at least $48.60) it would put my order over $100 and I would get it with free shipping. The fact that ordering this game through Massdrop is potentially more expensive than ordering through an online board game retailer kinda blows holes through the "deep discount" logic of what Massdrop is. It's absolutely a curation of what a community is interested in.
Math is fun. I love it. Sorry, I'm cheap. A lot of gamers are. That's one reason I won't be doing this drop. It's not the best deal out there, and I haven't even played it yet. A friend kickstarted this game and I'll be trying it soon. It looks great, and I'm excited to play it. I try not to buy a game unless I've played it, I know that's not always the norm in this hobby, but my local gaming group does a lot of borrowing and we usually don't buy games that our friends own. Games are expensive and we all have families, so usually most of us will not buy a game that someone else owns unless it's an extremely good game or it's a game we would play with our families or other non gamers. This game looks good enough that I'd get it anyway, but I still want to try it first.
All that being said, if you guys can get a sweet sub-$400 drop on a GTX 1070, I'm in!
Jul 29, 2016
StormTrooper
46
Jul 29, 2016
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I'm still reading the thread, but you say you care about your relationship with consumers and I believe you based on your community support on bgg and the like, but this is coming off as not the case. The whole point of group buys is for people willing to purchase a large quantity and wait for the product so that a small discount can be had. It is a method that has been going on since before the internet in many hobbyist circles. Compare it to Kickstarter. It shows the seller that they are guaranteed a set amount of money before the product is available and both sides get to agree on a profit margin that seems fair to all concerned.
Jul 29, 2016
JameyisDumb
26
Aug 1, 2016
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Answer your own question about how something can be hard to find when it's still a pre-order since your game isn't available at either CS or MM.
Aug 1, 2016
timechange
153
Aug 3, 2016
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hi Jamey - just wanted to let you know that I discovered Scythe via Massdrop and ordered a couple units in the drop (to gift to friends who I think would really love it!), and then highlighted the game to my social networks (as Massdrop makes it easy to share and promote on social media). I also went over to the link you provided to purchase the Premium Edition + all add-ons -- for myself :) But I would have gladly bought multiple units all as premium mega-bundles via Massdrop if that were an option, but I think this ended up being a win-win-win for everyone. Thanks again! ;)
Aug 3, 2016
LethalThreat
3
Oct 27, 2016
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Of every post I've read so far THIS one makes me say F Scythe. Really makes me think F you too, which sucks because I love Viticulture. You claim your relationship with CONSUMERS,retailers and distributors is what you care about but CLEARLY consumers are not really your concern. If they were you wouldn't give a shit about them saving an additional 2.81 cents. I've been reading all of your posts and the thing I keep seeing is that your afraid of 2 things: 1: the perception that your game is cheap (btw make better miniature molds) 2: pissing off retailers
With the recent flood of awesome new games I just don't think I'll spend my hard earned cash on your product.
Save me the fake ass "I appreciate your view" response, because you don't.
Oct 27, 2016
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