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KyleGoddard
8
Dec 17, 2015
I'd really like to hear from people who have used this amp if possible. Can anyone provide a comparison to other AMP/DACs in a similar price range?
andrewdcato
39
Dec 17, 2015
KyleGoddardMe as well. Convince me to buy this instead of a Schiit stack, people!
Uzuzu
1431
Dec 18, 2015
andrewdcatoDoesn't get better for the price than a Schiit stack. Best price/performance ratio of any amp/dac dude.
dimic
31
Dec 18, 2015
UzuzuAndew, be aware that Uzuzu seems to talk out of his a.. a lot. I accidentally memorized his name from Massdrop Fostex discussion as one that had the most bull... opinions, like: cans should be neutral and DAC/AMP should bring colour to the type of music you listen to, etc...
BTW, I don't claim to know answer to what you ask. I do have Schiit Vali and I don't like it at all, compared to Fiio e10K and Chord Mojo. But then Vali is supposed to be coloured...
You may be able to find this discussions, if you wnat to check his credentials:
Uzuzu70 I'd say the dac/amp combo is a bit more important. The goal of hifi is for the cans to be neutral.
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2 weeks ago Commenting on Grace Design x Massdrop m9XX DAC/Amp Uzuzu70 lol low gain. Always use low gain before high gain to achieve your proper listening levels. High gain is only for when the music can't get loud enough on low gain cranked to max. That and it's just the way the Fostex cans are. They aren't picky either at what you throw at them but it's best to throw them with an amp with very low output impedence (like 2 or lower). If it helps, the m9xx has no gain switch.
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2 weeks ago Commenting on Fostex x Massdrop TH-X00 Headphones Uzuzu70 q701 peaky, I nearly lost my marbles laughing. Try amp/dac matching properly.
OnePunchMan
330
Dec 19, 2015
dimiccalled a troll ALL forums have it if you're not educated enough to google your ass to better answers then you deserve to get mislead if you belive a lone warrior who believes/trolling anti because reviews/math will prevail
siluro
13
Dec 19, 2015
andrewdcatoThe SMSL V2 to me looks like a great amp/dac combo. To date, I have never been let down by any SMSL product, though my experience is limited with only their desktop speaker amplification line. That being said, there have been numerous reviews of SMSL headphone amps and dacs especially from the likes of Z-Reviews where mostly just good things have been said. SMSL is that brand which offers a whole lot of bang for your buck and seeing that this is twice the price of the SMSL SD-793ii (a popular sub-$70 option), I would feel quite confident that the V2 can hold its own for its price bracket, and maybe even give the Schiit Stack or O2/ODac combo a run for its money. I like that it includes RCA-outs making it easy for me to connect my desktop speakers and fully utilize the dac, where with the Schiit Stack I would have to spend another $50 on the Magni uber edition to do the same.
It is such a new product that it is a shame there is not much talk or online reviews… But all the same, I think given time and a little exposure, the V2 has some strong potential to fill that ~$165 range as a solid contender. It is also something to note that the V2 is named under SMSL’s VMV label, which is their higher end or ‘luxury’ brand if you will. I am willing to bet my $120 that the V2 is worth its price, I think it would be great for those who do not want to commit $200+ on a Schiit Stack or O2/ODac combo but want something a little more than the likes of a Fiio E10k, or other cheaper set.
Uzuzu
1431
Dec 20, 2015
KyleGoddardThe guys above me don't know what they are talking about or aren't into Hi-Fi, just nice equipment. The main goal of "hi-fi" is flat response. It doesn't matter price you spend or what gear you have or whatever amp/dac you use to achieve it. Schiit stack is nice and proven. This is far less tested. Pull the trigger and let us know how it sounds it is probably good for its price. Guys above me in this convo are haters. Picking on me because of my opinion lol sounds like some youtube trolls to me. And I don't know what crack this dimic guy is smoking but I want some.
Always using low gain to achieve proper listening volume is basically a fact as higher gain by definition distorts audio.
Also the q701 is not peaky when used on good equipment and well mastered songs. And I never stated that headphones themselves have to be neutral.
I meant what you are hearing through your headphones aka the source presented to you by your dac/amp should be neutral. The sentence was poorly written by me and he took it out of context I can see how. Granted this kid is using slivers of my conversation to discredit me. It is generally more important to spend higher dollars first on your dac/amp and get a nice clean source before you dump the high dollars into cans. Say you have 500 dollars, 100 dollar cans and a 400 dollar dac/amp will sound better than 400 dollar cans vs 100 dollar dac/amp generally.
If my opinion is bull and my thoughts are so invalid I wonder why I have +72 and growing ratings. I've read thousands of reviews and demo'd shit tons of equipment, plenty more than those basement dwellers.
One more point I'd like to make though is that you don't have to be into "hi-fi" to enjoy music. Often times Hi-Fi is just people who are seeking the best possible sound quality and it's usually obsession not just enjoyment of music. Well it's also sometimes both ;-)
Yakov
1420
Dec 20, 2015
Uzuzu"If my opinion is bull and my thoughts are so invalid I wonder why I have +72 and growing ratings."
My opinions are fact. Nutella, best.
Uzuzu
1431
Dec 21, 2015
YakovHa, well the dude is trying to defame my points and say I'm talking out of my A in different places on this website. That's next level weird to do. What a creep right? But seriously good old fashioned PB>Nutella anyday ;-)
mayorblurps
499
Dec 22, 2015
UzuzuI don't really claim to be an audiophile, nor make comments about what audio gear should and shouldn't do and present those comments (opinions) as fact. But I do know that hi fi doesn't necessarily mean a flat response. 72 ratings here on Massdrop doesn't really garner you the kind of audio gear respect you seem to think it does. You seem to forget that audio is subjective and therefore what you hear and claim is hifi likely isn't the same for other people. Don't send folks down the wrong road by presenting your opinions as fact on what equipment should do and headphones should sound like.
dimic
31
Dec 22, 2015
UzuzuHere is claim that made me be wary of what you're saying:
Uzuzu - "Say you have 500 dollars, 100 dollar cans and a 400 dollar dac/amp will sound better than 400 dollar cans vs 100 dollar dac/amp generally."
I hope you do some reading on the subject - check Audio Critic archives, or bunch of other audio guys that know what they're writing. Electronics are substantially more similar and easier to get right than transducers, i.e. drivers, headphones and speakers. Rule I've heard is to spend 85% budget on your speakers. This is arguable point, but you get the point.
My beef with you is, I felt that you confidently gave wrong advice to those that know less. Confidence in such context can be very convincing, and I was concerned about well being of receiver of advice. Cheers
P.S. I have Chord Mojo($599) and Fiio E10K($75) and difference is really small, as to be barely audible. I have number of cans (most high-end) and they're all _very_ different.
Uzuzu
1431
Dec 23, 2015
dimicIf you think about it it's precisely why that headphones are usually done right that even when they are cheaper they compare better with little payoff to more expensive headphones (sub 200 dollar cans mostly excluded!). It is much easier to find difference in QUALITY of audio by spending a decent chunk of money on a DAC/AMP. I don't give two squats about the sound sig just the quality by resolving power of the source.
Uzuzu
1431
Dec 23, 2015
mayorblurpsHifi Actually does mean a flat response. I assume you just TLDR'd this entire thread and didn't read my comments. I never said it had to be hifi to enjoy good music. I already stated good music is subjective and that it doesn't matter what you're using so long as you enjoy the music. I often implore to people they not waste money in a futile search if they are already enjoying music for the music. But hifi does mean flat and superbly resolving, that's the definition and the whole science and engineering behind it. Cheers.
jchandy
106
Dec 24, 2015
UzuzuAlthough I'm replying to you my comment is in general, I'm somewhere in between everyone when it comes to my stance on this. Hifi does tend to veer towards neutrality but this is not always the case as the LCD-2 tends to be more warm and lush in comparison to the HD-800 which is more on the brighter side of neutral and could be a bit sterile, I consider both of these Hifi. In comparison a more consumer sound tends to be a lot warmer with rolled off highs. Although I Iike a more neutral sound signature others may not, I find it depends on the music one listens to, a person who listens to mainly pop and edm may find a warmer headphone more to their liking, it all depends upon the preferred sound signature of the individual. A cheaper dac/amp with a more expensive headphone will usually be much better than a expensive dac/amp with a cheaper headphone for example, an smsl sd793-ii upto an odac or modi/magni/vali stack paired with a more expensive headphone like an LCD-2 or an HD-800 is going to yield better results than a really expensive dac/amp paired with a cheap headphone like an sr80i. This is not always the case though, a q701 paired with a woo fireflies is amazing. Headphones like the K701 and the HD600 used to be flagship headphones when they were released, things have changed drastically since then but I find the law of diminishing returns to be significant beyond these headphones, the same applies even more so to dac and amps beyond an odac/o2, an odac/o2 is all you'll ever need to be honest. I find having a decent dac/amp important though, garbage in garbage out and all that. Now having said this I find people conflating things here, pairings are really important and is another thing entirely from what else is being discussed. For example pairing an HD-800/q701 with a bright source can be quite painful and are generally paired with a more neutral to warm dac/amp combo, I personally like pairing these with tube amps. Pairing an already warm headphone with an already warm dac/amp combo could be disastrous. There are many who also use pairings to fix what they perceive as faults with headphones, for example a lot of people find q701's peaky as you state (due to the 2k peak) and they like pairing it with a warm source to smooth it out. @Dimic: I find your comments to be surprising to be honest, I've seen you comment many times that you have the chord mojo and the E10k and that you find the difference between the two barely audible. You are the first person I've come across saying this, now I'm not saying you are wrong we all hear differently and a small difference for some may be a large difference for others. I've heard both the chord mojo and E10k at length and I hear a gulf of difference between the two, its hard for me to compute someone saying that there is barely an audible difference between the two, to me this claim sounds as outrageous as someone that claims that there is barely an audible difference between a competent mid range headphone compared to an entry level headphone that has similar sound signatures. Hell there is a big difference for me between the E10k and the smsl sd793-ii even within the same price range, the E10k is generally considered decent for what it costs and to be fair it is, and the Mojo is considered excellent value at its much loftier price point, this is a sentiment I share as well as the opinion of everyone I've met who has heard the Mojo and compared them with cheaper dac/amps and this is the case with most of the reviewers online who have auditioned the product. In light of all of this I find it isn't fair to tell people the difference between the two is small just because you can barely hear the difference, this to me is just as bad as a lot of the claims Uzuzu is making.
MassEDU
182
Dec 24, 2015
dimicI totally agree with the "My beef" paragraph. I take Uzuzu's comments with a massive dose of salt, a lot of the time choosing not to read them anymore. Unfortunately, I've also grown quite fond of clicking on that "poop" icon.
shadowdude777
101
Dec 24, 2015
Uzuzu> Say you have 500 dollars, 100 dollar cans and a 400 dollar dac/amp will sound better than 400 dollar cans vs 100 dollar dac/amp generally.
I can't possibly think of a way for this to be more wrong. I spent $200 on my headphones and then bought a $200 amp/DAC stack (Schiit), and realized what a waste of money that was. Almost nothing changed. Would have been better off buying a $350 pair of headphones and the cheapest Fiio amp/DAC combo I could get, because an amp and DAC do almost nothing for your sound signature until you have a $500 pair of headphones.
sprk1
232
Dec 24, 2015
shadowdude777Interesting. I find very little difference regarding sound quality when comparing headphones from cheap to very expensive. Coloring yes, quality barely any difference. Cans are in my opinion trully the definition of diminishing returns the more expensive you go, which doesn't stop most of us. On the other hand I've noticed a huge difference between amps. Hell the difference between an ODAC and a Schitt magni/modi stack is staggering for my ears.
dimic
31
Dec 28, 2015
jchandyI get your point. This is certainly how it felt to me - Fiio E10K and Mojo relatively similar. I'm wondering if my personal bias is coming from having majority of comparative listening done only on Audeze El-8C and Etymotic 4S, before I sold Fiio.
Or maybe real reason is massive experimentation I've been doing with headphones in couple months - I got T1, Q701, LCD X, 3003i, TX00, and I've probably lost sensitivity to subtle differences...
In the context of constantly switching headphones, DACs differences are really, really small. However, as most people listen with one or two set of headphones, change of DAC may be way more perceptible for them, and I'm misrepresenting what they may experience.
So yeah, good point, I'll stop saying that...
jchandy
106
Jan 1, 2016
dimicAgain it's a personal thing I find, I've done a ton of experimenting with a myriad of sources and different headphones(from the lowly grado sr60 to the stax sr-009), dac/amp differences aren't subtle in the slightest. I used to spend a lot of time at Headphoneshop in Toronto, Charles is an awesome guy and loves gear and music and I have spent a lot of time auditioning gear in the year I was in Toronto. I find people tend to exaggerate the differences between mid to high-end headphones as the large differences between them tend to be the larger differences between sound signatures/coloration over technical ability. There are a few threads online where they discuss the k701 vs the hd800(similar sound sig) and the results are surprising, they can go from sounding extremely similar to quite different depending upon the dac/amp pairing that goes along with it, and there are some who actually prefer the k701 paired with something like the orb jade-2 over the hd800 hence why dac/amp to headphone pairings are quite important. Also it could be the music we listen to, some genres really showcase the flaws in gear, I found the E10k to be extremely narrow sounding for classic music for example. Headphone differences are larger than dac/amp differences for sure but saying there are only subtle differences between an entry level dac/amp and a mid to high-end dac/amp is reaching to say the least.
dimic
31
Jan 2, 2016
jchandyYes, Charles is awesome, got couple of things from him, including LCD X and T1 :)
I get your point, and I probably exhibit very poor listening skills compared to you. Yet, what I said is what I heard. I appreciate your comment as another perspective and potential to learn, but I'm wrestling with inability to replicate your experiences.
I even had 3 DACs connected for comparative analysis, going into my (awesome, Harbeth) speakers: internal from OPPO BD103, internal from my Marantz receiver and Mojo. I was able to switch with remote any which way in 0.5 sec, or whatever it is time amp needs to switch input, and compare was very, very close btw all three. Mojo did sound best though, a touch more airy.
How important is DAC is question that is driving me crazy right now - not sure if Anthem MX310 would give me better DAC than Mojo, or maybe Emotiva DC-1 would be better? That's about what I'm ready to spend, but I'm not sure I'll notice positive difference (to clarify, I'm more interested in speaker setup than fones). Any comment is appreciated. And BTW, I can't separate technical capability of fones from their signature, so each one of them sounds completely differently to me
jchandy
106
Jan 3, 2016
dimicNext time you visit ask Charles if he thinks the differences between the E10k and the Mojo are barely audible, he's got them both in the store. Regarding your listening comparisons, were you just comparing dacs? And wheres the E10k in that comparison? Also you're comparing gear that is similarly comparable, not entry vs mid/high end gear like the E10k and mojo comparison. When talking about the E10k vs the Mojo we are talking about their dacs with their own respective amps, not the dacs alone, if I were to say the E10k is quite narrow sounding in comparison to my smsl sd793-ii or to an odac/o2 combo (and in both cases it is) would I just be comparing the dacs? And lets not get into speakers, I've done blind testing comparisons with the E10k, sd793-ii and Modi connected to a pair of Pioneer sp-bs22's and the results were the same each time, E10k<sd793-ii<Modi (the Modi sounded extremely lifelike in this setup unlike the others). If it is just dacs I wouldn't go beyond an odac to be honest, the mojo commands a higher premium than an odac/o2 combo as it is portable which is fair.
clemsontiger
0
Jan 9, 2016
jchandyThe Fi- fidelity in Hi-Fi literally translates into truth or loyalty. Thus, good HiFi would imply sound being reproduced like the way it was recorded, without any added coloration aka a flat response. I would have to go with Uzuzu on this point. Other claims are questionable, but still..
jchandy
106
Jan 9, 2016
clemsontigerAlthough I would agree with you there is more to that argument, is anything really hi-fi by that definition? Which headphone has a truly flat frequency response? What is a true representation of sound also depends on how the individual hears and we all hear differently, for some they are high end grados as they are tuned by ear and sound life like to a lot of people, to others they are faaar from what they would consider an accurate representation of the source material. This is a much larger discussion and why headphones like the LCD-2 are considered Hi-Fi by many.
clemsontiger
0
Jan 10, 2016
jchandyI would say the Etymotic ER4s has a pretty flat response. Some of the Boston Acoustics of yesteryears did extremely well in that regard too. But, yes, I understand that the sound signature of the Audezes is preferred by many people.
jchandy
106
Jan 10, 2016
clemsontigerThe Etymotic ER4s don't have a flat response, they have a moderate 2k peak, as do other headphones that are considered neutral but really aren't. My point is there is a difference between what is on a frequency response graph, what people perceive to hear and what is considered true to life by the individual so the argument isn't cut and dry.
Noldir
82
Apr 25, 2016
sprk1Interesting as well :) After experimenting a lot with headphones, ranging from the Takstar pro-80 right up to the Hifiman he-6 and everything in between, I can tell you that the quality difference is about as staggering as the price. What kind of headphones did you try?
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