Showing 1 of 79 conversations about:
allmeads
15
Jan 14, 2019
Locked
bookmark_border
meh. with Chinese audio, "you gets what you pay for."
Jan 14, 2019
Roen
37
Jan 15, 2019
bookmark_border
Something really transparent?
Jan 15, 2019
cjeong
74
Jan 15, 2019
bookmark_border
If this dac was built by the KKK, would it be better?
Jan 15, 2019
verifonix
712
Jan 15, 2019
bookmark_border
This device is really well engineered...
Jan 15, 2019
allmeads
15
Jan 15, 2019
bookmark_border
let's see, the Rotel RDD-1580 and the NuPrime DAC -9 for starters.
Jan 15, 2019
allmeads
15
Jan 15, 2019
bookmark_border
not familiar with the KKK. what other audio gear do they manufacture?
Jan 15, 2019
allmeads
15
Jan 15, 2019
bookmark_border
I'm assuming this is not "well engineered" at all, but rather "well copied." Secondly, any DAC worth purchasing is not rated on the sum of its parts, or how cheap it is, but rather how it "sounds." I have never listened to a Chinese audio product that was "cheap" and walked away thinking "wow!" In my listening experience, DACs like this come away sounding "bright" and "harsh." Like I said, you gets what you pay for. there is no free lunch, even in the audiophile world. Perhaps this DAC is great for many people and so great, purchase it. But if I was in the market for a DAC, I'd spend more and try and find one that could unfold MQA files or was customer upgradable at a later date.
Jan 15, 2019
verifonix
712
Jan 15, 2019
bookmark_border
Dismissing Chinese gear as "bright and harsh" and copies, and drinking the MQA cool-aid. Great. Anyway, this DAC has great high-quality panasonic/noratel power components (sourced from outside China) as well as superb jitter rejection via custom ALTERA fpga chip. Zeos as well as audioscience reviewed it very favourably. And you dismiss it because of what? Stupid prejudice. Fuck that.
(Edited)
Jan 15, 2019
Roen
37
Jan 15, 2019
bookmark_border
I mean, there's also Khadas Tone Board, SMSL SU-8 V2, Topping D50 and many other transparent examples. There's good stuff everywhere and shit everywhere. Unfair to generalize Chinese audio as shit given the current state of the market.
Jan 15, 2019
cjeong
74
Jan 15, 2019
bookmark_border
It was a hypothetical lol
(Edited by moderator AlexPk)
Jan 15, 2019
allmeads
15
Jan 15, 2019
bookmark_border
Buy it bro. No one is telling you otherwise.
(Edited by moderator AlexPk)
Jan 15, 2019
allmeads
15
Jan 15, 2019
bookmark_border
hey, my experience tells me otherwise. I’ve purchased some Chinese tube gear that the components would suggest high end but I paid a comparative song for. And guess what? I got exactly what I paid for. And here’s another generalization based on my listening to a ton of gear: If you want some leading edge quality Asian audio gear, I’d look to Japan, not China.
Jan 15, 2019
allmeads
15
Jan 15, 2019
bookmark_border
No kidding?!? Couldn’t tell. But it’s a weird and curious comment regardless. Schiit makes some interesting and affordable products. Love their line preamp for what it is and does. And I can’t defend what I don’t have. Later bro.
Jan 15, 2019
Roen
37
Jan 15, 2019
bookmark_border
I agree there's some musical gear out there coming from Japan, but the recent Chinese gear which has been release AND which has measured well (cuz there's still a ton that don't), are quite transparent if you're looking for clean, cold and analytical.
Jan 15, 2019
cjeong
74
Jan 15, 2019
bookmark_border
So you can’t defend that you think the D1 is bad?
(Edited by moderator AlexPk)
Jan 15, 2019
allmeads
15
Jan 15, 2019
bookmark_border
Buy it. Ignorance is bliss
Jan 15, 2019
allmeads
15
Jan 15, 2019
bookmark_border
I never said the DAC was bad. What I did say is that you get what you pay for. Period.
(Edited by moderator AlexPk)
Jan 15, 2019
cjeong
74
Jan 15, 2019
bookmark_border
Well, first of all, “meh” is not a term frequently used to depict great happiness or enthusiasm. It rather means that one is unenthusiastic about the DAC, which doesn’t explicitly state that the DAC is bad. Then you pointed out that the DAC was Chinese, followed by a seemingly intentional grammar error that ridicules Asians. Furthermore, you put quote marks around it, which further conveys the message that you were ridiculing the DAC for it’s “Chinaness”.
Jan 15, 2019
allmeads
15
Jan 15, 2019
bookmark_border
What?! “ you gets what you pay for” is a cliche. It is not an intentional grammar error. It does not ridicule Asians. It references the fact that an $899 DAC is just that. It takes existing digital architecture uses a DAC chipset that measures well in a balanced configuration and that equals an audiophile component? No, I don’t think so. Again, any audio component is not good simply by the measure of the components used. The design matters as much. And any component selling for $899 does not need to amortize R&D or design into the selling price. Period. So, yeah, meh. I’d purchase something different. Maybe it’s better than I think. But I’m certainly entitled not to wax poetic over this component or its “discounted” price. And all this from the person who references the “KKK” in an audio conversation?? Done and done.
Jan 15, 2019
cjeong
74
Jan 15, 2019
bookmark_border
Well, this design conviently just happens to have been implemented so that it measures well. Think of that! Not all Chinese companies are BS!
Jan 15, 2019
jsmiller58
573
Jan 15, 2019
bookmark_border
On a more constructive note... :-) What DACs do you like? This might help to calibrate people on this thread.
Jan 15, 2019
audible
432
Jan 17, 2019
bookmark_border
not that measurements are everything, but: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-smsl-vmv-d1-dac.4375/ This DAC is extremely quiet, dynamic and linear. ...but hey, it's Chinese so it must be bad....
(Edited by moderator AlexPk)
Jan 17, 2019
jaffe
150
Jan 17, 2019
bookmark_border
"let's see, the Rotel RDD-1580 and the NuPrime DAC -9 for starters."... ...both also made in China. Neither support MQA(yawn). Both get smoked by this DAC.
(Edited by moderator AlexPk)
Jan 17, 2019
allmeads
15
Jan 17, 2019
bookmark_border
MQA is tremendous technology that provides a listener of digital to get closer to analog than ever before. The differences can be noticeable compared to other digital mediums and depending upon equipment being usedThat’s my listening experience. And so when I hear or read someone dismissing MQA that pretty much says it all. My comment on this DAC was related to the price vs. it’s sound. Again I I have found niche audio equipment mfg from China tends to fall short. Simply because the design of the piece is pretty standard and simply plugging in good DAC chips into a standard designed board does not neccesarily result in great sound. There is a readon this piece is offered at a “discount” and it isn’t because it’s so damn good in a listening room properly set up. Seems most here are in love with technical measurements and not the sound. Haven’t read a comment on how it sounds with various digital front ends. My references to those nuprime and rotel products was only to their similar price point but with proven audio chops and not having anything to do with being made in China . If I was to purchase a DAC without hearing it, I’d go in that direction and pay more for a DAC that can unfold MQA. I would not buy older designs at this point.
(Edited by moderator AlexPk)
Jan 17, 2019
allmeads
15
Jan 17, 2019
bookmark_border
How does it sound?
Jan 17, 2019
allmeads
15
Jan 17, 2019
bookmark_border
My choice for older designs (non MQA) would be Esoteric with a SACD Esoteric front end. It’s what I personally own. For my streaming front end which is a re-purposed MacBook, it’s a nuprime dac
Jan 17, 2019
Roen
37
Jan 17, 2019
bookmark_border
NuPrime? As in NuPrime uDSD?
Jan 17, 2019
Broody
123
Jan 18, 2019
bookmark_border
You said ---references to those nuprime and rotel products was only to their similar price point but with proven audio chops--- if you've been paying attention over the last 5 years or so, you should know that there's 'proven chops' in 'ChiFi', and SMSL is one. It's not due to copying, but more to efficient engineering solutions. Your dismissal of Chinese engineering expertise is very misinformed. There's such a glut of skilled digital engineers in China who also happen to be serious dedicated audio nerds, it's not even funny. The gap in high-end audio is closing rapidly. I look to Japan for analogue components more than digital. I borrowed one of these a few months ago and was so impressed I ordered one immediately. It's getting a ton of press and not just because one guy likes its numbers. It's not the be-all-end-all, but it does some things I've never heard on DACs I've spent way more on. Can't speak to MQA as my listening is not limited by bandwidth. There are are probably many DACs out there worthy of your derision, but this shouldn't be one of them. Sincerely.
Jan 18, 2019
verifonix
712
Jan 18, 2019
bookmark_border
"MQA is tremendous technology that provides a listener of digital to get closer to analog than ever before." LOL and it does this how, by 'unfolding' to ultrasonic frequencies? MQA is a fucking scam, the few songs that sound better only do because of better MASTERING, locked into the DRM that is MQA.
(Edited by moderator AlexPk)
Jan 18, 2019
cjeong
74
Jan 18, 2019
bookmark_border
Lol again you’re commenting on why the SMSL VMV D1 DAC is so bad while never having heard it.... There’s a clear “readon” why we can’t trust you about this DAC, it’s that you’ve never head it. Nuprime’s owner has an overinflated ego, as seen in this thread: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=141053.0 I bet you won’t hear the difference between MQA and FLAC in a blind test. Alternative points of view are tolerated, it’s just when they’re based off of loose, incorrect reasoning that they’re not.
Jan 18, 2019
cjeong
74
Jan 18, 2019
bookmark_border
I used a Massdrop THX AAA 789 at my friend’s house with an Audeze LCD-X running through a Periapt Balanced Cable. Compared to the SU-8 he also had, they sounded quite similar. The D1 was brighter at the top end, increasing detail but adding fatigue. The SU-8 had a bit less front to back soundstage than the D1. Lows and mids were indistinguishable in tonality, but the timbre in the mids had more decay. TL;DR SU-8 and D1 had similar tonality, but timbre, decay and soundstage were an improvement.
Jan 18, 2019
jaffe
150
Jan 19, 2019
bookmark_border
"MQA is tremendous technology that provides a listener of digital to get closer to analog than ever before. " hahaha. Well, not really. Bob Stuart is a genius of digital audio, but in the last decade he's turned that genius toward marketing. MQA is streaming tech and it's hit and miss, it's good tech,but not nearly what you're making it out to be. Also, I don't do any critical listening streaming thus the "yawn". It could be on my DirectStream if I want to take part in Bob's latest supply side monopoly scheme. "And so when I hear or read someone dismissing MQA that pretty much says it all." haha. and so when I hear somebody going on about MQA and they don't really even know what it really is, that pretty much says it all. "Again I I have found niche audio equipment mfg from China tends to fall short." I really don't believe you have done much listening to Chinese niche equipment, mainly because your boasts don't add up. "Simply because the design of the piece is pretty standard and simply plugging in good DAC chips into a standard designed board does not neccesarily result in great sound." That goes for gear from anywhere; doesn't apply here, though. nice word salad, though. "There is a readon this piece is offered at a “discount” and it isn’t because it’s so damn good in a listening room properly set up. " That word salad is YOUR read, and we know that's not worth much at all. maybe you haven't heard, but massdrop is where a lot of people come to get "discounts" on audio gear. LOL. "Seems most here are in love with technical measurements and not the sound. Haven’t read a comment on how it sounds with various digital front ends." this is true all over the place. however, there are reviews all over the place about this thing, and you would be hard-pressed to find a negative review about it. First you went for ad hominems, now you're going for straw men; a pretty clear sign that you're in too deep. Yep, it does measure extremely well. It is very linear, very Dynamic, and very transparent. Why would somebody not want to experience a DAC like that? and for that price...oh yeah, you're hung up on the price, basically coming here to "bargain shame" others while trying(and failing) to elevate yourself. "Your vitriol directed towards me only serves to underscore your own ignorance." It's more bemusement than vitriol; you're entirely too insignificant to warrant my vitriol. You underscore your own ignorance every time you open your mouth. Sure you may have paid a lot for your Esoteric hardware and that's cool, I'm sure your friend is impressed. Sell it and get a PSAudio DirectStream
(Edited by moderator AlexPk)
Jan 19, 2019
allmeads
15
Jan 19, 2019
bookmark_border
my mistake. I use the PD Audio NuWave DSD for my streaming
Jan 19, 2019
allmeads
15
Jan 19, 2019
bookmark_border
My experience with Chinese niche mfg making audiophile equipment has been disappointing to my ear, albeit analog focused. That's is my experience and that is what I will say. period.
(Edited by moderator AlexPk)
Jan 19, 2019
allmeads
15
Jan 19, 2019
bookmark_border
I see a piece of digital equipment which is designed and made by a niche manufacturer in China. There many of these companies, most of which never see the audio market here in the States. Are they good? Myabe some are, but my listening experience with Chinese made components over the years suggests that above average components do not necessarily equate to a good or great listening experiences. Hence my comment, "meh." and it's my opinion that a piece of audio equipment which does not fetch original retail is either obsolete, or simply not that good. But hey, that's my experience with my Chinese purchases. I'm happy many feel contrary to my view and hope the purchase works out well. You want me to "cower" b/c you have a handful of self proclaimed experts jumping my ass for saying "meh" and then voicing my listening experience? forget it.
(Edited by moderator AlexPk)
Jan 19, 2019
allmeads
15
Jan 19, 2019
bookmark_border
you're right. I haven't heard the DAC. And I read one review that indicated it sounded well in a balanced set up, not so much single-ended. I'll remain indifferent to this DAC, which is actually what the word, "meh" means. perhaps it is a $900 diamond in the rough. As long as you and others feel that way, why do you care so much about what others think?
Jan 19, 2019
allmeads
15
Jan 19, 2019
bookmark_border
".....MQA is a f*** scam....." there's tons written on the subject, but I would encourage you to read this and become enlightened: https://darko.audio/2016/06/an-inconvenient-truth-mqa-sounds-better/
(Edited by moderator AlexPk)
Jan 19, 2019
LuckyEights
176
Jan 23, 2019
bookmark_border
I agree with this MQA is like apple trying to replace usb with firewire its going to die just like firewire did barely supported by anyone in the market and only have a few dedicated that think its some how better because marketing said so haha
(Edited by moderator AlexPk)
Jan 23, 2019
View Full Discussion