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FriedShoe
188
Aug 1, 2017
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1. The Tojiro DP has the same core steel and costs $70
2. The description is both wrong and misleading:
" Made in Germany, the Sternsteiger 8-inch chef knife has a G-10 handle and a VG-10 steel core that’s forged with 67 layers of hand-hammered damascus steel. Damascus steel is characterized by distinct banding patterns resembling flowing water and has become known for its strength, edge retention, and aesthetic appeal. "
First of all, the edge is NOT made of damascus steel, but rather VG-10 as the description states. In the last picture you can clearly see that this knife is san mai; VG-10 is used as a core steel that is sandwiched between the damascus layers. The damascus is purely aestethic (and this is a good thing).
Second, damascus steel, aka pattern welded steel, is absoluletly NOT known for it's strength or edge retention. It's just two or more types of steel layered and folded and since those steels etch differently a pattern emerges. If you use cheap bar stock you'll end up with cheap damascus. It doesn't magically get harder or stronger just by being layered and etched.
3. MSRP is $1,400?
4. 60 HRC +/-2 gives a range for 58:62. Typical ranges for VG-10 should be around 60:61. This looser range implies that the quality control is not very good for the heat treatment so you may end up with a softer knife that doesn't hold an edge very long (2 HRC is significant as the scale is not linear) or a harder knife that chips more easily (VG-10 gets chippy with a bad heat treatment). Alternatively, it could just be either the maker or Massdrop trying to play it safe with a wider range.
Aug 1, 2017
BrainFlush
6845
Aug 1, 2017
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Hello. As I've asked others. I'll ask you if you don't mind. I need 3 knives. For Steak, Chicken and Vegetables. In a restaurant. I'll be handling the care of the knives overall.
Suggestions? Thanks.
Aug 1, 2017
FriedShoe
188
Aug 1, 2017
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I'm not a professional cook so I might not be the best help, but some folks over at my subreddit are if you want to ask there: https://www.reddit.com/r/chefknives/ But maybe I can still try.
Why three knives exactly? Does steak and chicken need to be handled by different knives? Otherwise one solid gyuto is all you need if you want Japanese, or a regular western chef's knife if not.
A nakiri is great for vegetables. Again you can go Japanese here, but a lot of western knife makers also sell nakiris these days.
Stainless or carbon steel? Western or Japanese handle?
Price range for each knife or for all in total?
Do you also need a utility/petty knife?
How will you be handling care? Honing rod, whetstones, electric sharpener, or something else?
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In case you don't want to answer all of that I'll throw out the Misono UX10 gyuto (stainless, western handle) and the Gesshin Uraku (stainless, Japanese handle).
Misono: https://www.knifan.com/misono-ux10-gyutou.html Gesshin Uraku: https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/products/gesshin-uraku-240mm-stainless-wa-gyuto
For both of these knives the exact steel used is kept proprietary (shrug) but I know from experience that the Misono is a good knife that sharpens well and by word of mouth that the Gesshin Uraku is also a very good knife, if not one of the best entry level gyutos. For what it's worth, the Misono is very likely made of 12c27 which is a pretty good stainless steel and is basically the budget version of AEB-L.
Aug 1, 2017
BrainFlush
6845
Aug 1, 2017
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So sorry man, it was you that helped earlier, just been so busy and couldn't read all that was needed.
I'll try to answer now.
I need 3 knives for 3 stations. They need to be under $100 each. Prefer if they cost that on sale or from MassDrop. I will be caring for them as I learn how to sharpen currently using the crap knives we have. Using a whetstone and https://brodandtaylor.com/knife-sharpener/ in combination.
Thanks again.
Aug 1, 2017
FriedShoe
188
Aug 1, 2017
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I would look at these lines:
Togiharu Inox: http://korin.com/Knives/Togiharu-Inox-Steel_2
Fujiwara FKM: https://japanesechefsknife.com/collections/fujiwara-kanefusa-fkm-series
Tojiro DP: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tojirodpseries.html
Note that several of the knives in all of those lines have 70/30 bevels instead of an even 50/50. You can convert them to 50/50 on a stone, but before then that pull through device you linked will not be appropriate to use.
Aug 1, 2017
jsolar
69
Aug 1, 2017
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Having used a wide variety of sharpeners i will swear by stones every time. Ive tried the ceramic pull through and the electric ones. Neither of which get sharp for me. The stones are the only thing i can get a proper edge with. Now there are stone systems like the viper v or whatnot but they are still stones. If you need a maintenance between a good steel will help keep the knife sharp but id avoid the ceramic or diamond ones as they will be changing the edge angle If you are not careful.
Aug 1, 2017
FriedShoe
188
Aug 1, 2017
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I'm not sure how to massdrop; are you replying to me or the other guy? Personally I would never use a pull through and only use a hone on softer steel where it is appropriate to do so, but not everyone is going to invest the time and money to learn how to freehand sharpen on whetstones.
Aug 1, 2017
jsolar
69
Aug 1, 2017
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Yea, sorry was replying to Brainflush, was a tad busy at work and just typing while i was walking across the building. And i agree, at work we will use the diamond hone's on prep knifes but those are only like $7-20 a knife and super soft steel. I actually threw out the electric sharpener cause i could do it better on the diamond hone. My personal knifes are around 60-64 hc and a steel hone is kinda useless but i find my self doing 1 or two passes everyonce in a while between maintenance sharpenings. More useful on something like german steel found in whustofs than the japanese steel im used too.
And while i agree that most people wont take the time to learn how to freehand sharpen. I strongly suggest everyone give it a shot at some point. Just watch or read a tad on it beforehand. While im no where near grate at it, i get enjoyment out of it being able to shave hair every once in a while when i take my time and do a decent job.
Aug 1, 2017
Kitchenbee
11
Aug 1, 2017
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Hi BrainFlush Please, see this http://prefundia.com/projects/view/nagasaki-more-knives-that-will-stay-with-you/13660/ i guess Nakiris and chef knives .. B.R
Aug 1, 2017
BrainFlush
6845
Aug 1, 2017
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I am doing whetstone on my own time. Freehand. Watched videos and used logic. I will check out your stuff as soon as I can. I really appreciate it.
Aug 1, 2017
BrainFlush
6845
Aug 1, 2017
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Entered my email. Thank you. Any idea on pricing? And the HRC?
Aug 1, 2017
BrainFlush
6845
Aug 1, 2017
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Thanks man. I will take all that has been said into consideration. And definitely after researching everything posted. I am going to hand sharpen all the knives and train our cooks. Just need to make it affordable and user friendly. 3 restaurants and growing.
Aug 1, 2017
jsolar
69
Aug 1, 2017
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Probably the best thing to do is also train them how to best maintain the edge while using it. Like the thing a lot of my co workers dont think of is when you scrape the board, dont use the cutting edge but rather the back of the knife. Its mainly just being mindful of what you cut. No cardboard. In essance, the edge should only ever contact the board and food. If you need to open a box or thick packaging theres super cheap pocket knifes on here that will do the job just fine. That alone will make any knife last tenfold longer if any of those harmful things are in practice.
Its one thing i cant get through my bosses mind. He just slams and scrapes away. But thats why he never uses my knifes.
Aug 1, 2017
BrainFlush
6845
Aug 1, 2017
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Luckily, I am the boss and already use the back of our knives. But I will definitely implement it across the restaurants. I know trusting them to do it is a big risk, but I can't afford to micromanage. Trust and believe me when I say this, they will be fully responsible once I buy knives for them. I want to make them pay for it but I can't. Sadly, they aren't schooled chefs. :D
Aug 1, 2017
BrainFlush
6845
Aug 2, 2017
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These two, Fujiwara and Tojiro look reasonable.
I know I posted the same thing in other drops. But this handle is too damn sexy https://www.massdrop.com/buy/curtis-stone-santoku-knives Am I wrong? Is it pointless? I have large hands and am heavy handed. I can cut pounds of meat with the crap knives I have in minutes. Guide me please. :D
Aug 2, 2017
FriedShoe
188
Aug 2, 2017
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Idk, you would have to try it. I'm not usually a fan of knives that try to reinvent the wheel, it usually means they gave up trying to make the rest of the knife perform well.
Aug 2, 2017
BrainFlush
6845
Aug 2, 2017
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I get it. I just know how my hands are. Straight handle seems cumbersome to me. I will make it a point to check out knives locally too. For that feel.
Aug 2, 2017
jsolar
69
Aug 2, 2017
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The handle is all dependant on how you hold the knife. While people say theres a proper way to hold it i honestly tell people hold it how it feels confortable while still being able to control it. That being said i tend to hold my bigger knives with a farther back pinch grip, so the handle isnt as relevant to me as it is to some others.
Always liked tall knives like how bob kramer designed his knives. But those are way to expensive.
One of my first more expensive purchases was this. http://www.chefknivestogo.com/yawh1na16.html Got it to learn how to sharpen since it was a taller knife. And the steel was more forgiving for learning. But Its not a commercial kitchen knife due to it not being stainless. The tojiro dp line is great for a kitchen. Completely stainless and has VG10 core steel. Its my first knife that ive cut myself with. Wasnt used to Japanese style knives with a sharp heel, I'm used to german or western which usually have a thick part thats not as sharp; like on whustofs.
I dont own any fujiwara's but ive heard decent things about them.
Aug 2, 2017
BrainFlush
6845
Aug 5, 2017
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https://www.massdrop.com/buy/dragon-by-yaxell-fusion About to buy it. I like the guy and his interactions so far. Opinion? Cutting .5" steak and 1" chicken plus assorted veggies.
Aug 5, 2017
BrainFlush
6845
Aug 5, 2017
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https://www.massdrop.com/buy/dragon-by-yaxell-fusion About to buy it. I like the guy and his interactions so far. Opinion? Cutting .5" steak and 1" chicken plus assorted veggies.
Aug 5, 2017
jsolar
69
Aug 5, 2017
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That yaxell fusion is a cool looking knife. Should probably work great, but with that one precision tip work might be a bit more tricky, but you said you were looking at gettig three knives anyways so itll work great anyhow in that aspect.
As far as the price its right at that sweet spot for a knife. Whustofs are in that price as a comparison.
Steel wise: its relitivly new and there isnt a whole lot out there about it. Ive never heard of it till now. From what i can gather is itll hold an edge for a long time which will suit you great due to its great wear resistance.
Sharpening : People are still figuring this one out. I read that it shouldnt really go as shallow as japanese knives and should be kept 15° or steeper. Also due to the wear resistance one owner said it can be tricky or harder to get a scary edge on it, but once you do, it stays. So dont get discouraged by hand sharpening if it doesnt happen very quick.
Aug 5, 2017
BrainFlush
6845
Aug 5, 2017
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Sounds like an endorsement to me. :D I bought it anyways, I liked his responses and the fact it seems to be a new kind of knife on the market. And the way it looks, like hot damn that's sexy. Thanks dude.
I am also interested in what FriedShoe will say.
Aug 5, 2017
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