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Showing 1 of 45 conversations about:
yokken
117
Nov 16, 2017
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I got this a few months ago and while it's nice, I wouldn't recommend it over the Bonavita drip machines. This machine retains water after each brew, so every time you brew you start it off with old, stale water. I haven't observed this with the Bonavita machine I have but maybe it does it too. This is due to not fully purging the heating chamber - it sucks water down, heats it, and pumps it back up to the showerhead, and not all the water gets pumped back up. Save your money, get the Bonavita. It works just as well.
Nov 16, 2017
SantiagoDraco
611
Nov 17, 2017
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yokkenIf the water has been heated to a boil, and retained, how can it be "stale"? You do realize that most high end espresso machines and the like "retain" water, right? Sorry but this statement isn't a valid concern by any stretch of the imagination unless you let the water sit there for a very long period of time. Even then a simple flush would solve any perceived issues.
Nov 17, 2017
yokken
117
Nov 17, 2017
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SantiagoDracoIf one only uses the machine once or twice a month, the water sits too long IMO. I don't know how much is retained in the boiler at least for this unit. I also suspect the Bonavita does it, I just haven't noticed it because I don't tip the machine sideways. I had to do that multiple times for the Technivorm so I could get that stupid plastic carafe plate thing in place so the funnel would actually drain into the carafe (by activating the button) and had water spill all over the place. Not something I would need to do often but it's at least 50-100mL of water. Whether we know what the boiling chamber is lined with, any solids that might be imparted on the water, or not, I would rather have a coffee brewing setup that simply does not have this design "choice". Let me know when you decide to start flushing your coffee machine before each pot, that sounds convenient.
And one last thing- regardless of retention, assuming the Bonavita machines do it too, I would still *hands down* recommend the Bonavita machines for less unnecessary complexity, half the price, and just as good a cup. The Moccamaster units I read about having superior showerheads were not this model in particular. This one seems no better than the Bonavita - both have problems with even water pressure out of all showerhead holes. The Bonavita machine I have keeps the water hot enough for the entire brew and I have never had a bad cup from the machine. With moderately fresh grounds, a consistent grind, and a pre-wet filter, I get a balanced cup every time. Almost like what I'd get from my V60 but a little more bold/hint of bitter, due to slightly longer extraction times.
I still use my Aeropress or V60 most of the time, despite having a Chemex, Kalita Wave, French press, and two drip machines (Bonavita and Moccamaster). I just can't recommend the Moccamaster compared to the Bonavita machines, even if one intends to use them as their main brewing method.
Nov 17, 2017
SantiagoDraco
611
Nov 22, 2017
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yokkenEveryone is entitled to their opinion but I'm confused as to what you are actually comparing here as you state "I got this a few months ago" then you discuss the water distribution and refer to THIS Moccamaster as if you aren't sure how it works, ie do you really have this same one or even one at all?
Your comment about "unnecessary complexity" also seems a bit... overstated. I've watched several comparison videos from users and vendors and fail to see how the Moccamaster is more complex.
In addition it's pretty unanimous that the Moccamaster is significantly better built than the Bonavita (made in China). I'm speaking here of longevity not functionality. In addition the Moccmaster has a 5 year warranty vs the 2 year for the Bonavita.
Lastly your comments about having to tilt the unit.... confusing to me. I've watched many videos where the carafe is very easily removed and replaced into the unit. So I'm lost here, not to mention the whole thing about "any solids that might be imparted on the water..." Huh?
All in all I suspect some bias in your statements. Both are good units and I would assume that at their price points both are good values. I simply question your opinions suggesting others don't buy based on what appears to be faults that you attribute to the Moccamaster, that may or may not exist with the Bonavita (you seem to gloss over that), and lack of links to these articles you mention that support your assertions about the showerheads.
Nov 22, 2017
yokken
117
Nov 22, 2017
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SantiagoDracoJust to clarify a few points, but it's clear my arguments are weak and I must just be nitpicking.
The little foot thing that attaches to the bottom of the housing has a very specific way it fits on, and if it is not just right, the carafe will not actuate the button that depresses the opening latch on the filter cone. When I tried to slide the machine a little further back on my counter, I managed to either catch it on something, or the bottom came loose, I honestly don't remember, and I had to get it back on. Without being able to see down there to get the placement, I tilted it on its side at an angle so I could place this bottom piece correctly. That is when I had water come out and get all over my counter, so that was nice. I've never had to tilt the Bonavita so it could very well do the same. I just don't like the idea of water sitting in a metal boiler for maybe a few weeks at a time and then being used to brew coffee, or be drank at all for that matter. If the water is added freshly to the system every time you brew, you can be sure that there is little chance anything in the machine leached into the water. Though I still wonder, with some of the plastic parts that the Bonavita and Moccamaster come with.
I didn't mean to start anything here, I just wanted to provide some feedback. Not everyone has the same experience with an item so I figured I would add my perspective. And my opinion about the value of this machine over the Bonavita still stands. I think that's all I have to say about that.
Nov 22, 2017
SantiagoDraco
611
Nov 26, 2017
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yokkenAppreciate the response Yokken. Everyone is entitled to their opinions... and rebuttals. :)
I think that it's important to separate the issue of performance from quality. Certainly pretty much every review out there seems to indicate that the Moccamaster machines are higher quality. The warranty would also imply this as well.
Performance is a different issue and from what I've read across multiple reviews is that the two machines are very close and ultimately it depends on what features the buyer finds important. My take is that if you want pre-infusion then the Bonnavita is the machine to choose if you are willing to sacrifice a bit of quality/longevity. However if pre-infusion is not important then either makes a great cup of coffee.
Nov 26, 2017
SRCJ
3
Dec 12, 2017
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yokkenMy wife has the same concern. Did you find a way to clean out the old water?
Dec 12, 2017
yokken
117
Dec 12, 2017
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SRCJSorry to say I did not. You could tip the machine upside down every time you're done brewing with it, over the sink, or flush the entire thing before you brew every pot. I would prefer the former, though I would obviously prefer not having to do either. But if you want to clear it out, you gotta dump it out basically. It's a shame the pump system can't clear it all out, but I'm sure it would be difficult to ensure a complete purge of all liquid without some seriously advanced hydraulics or something. But I digress.
Dec 12, 2017
SRCJ
3
Dec 12, 2017
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yokkenThank you
Dec 12, 2017
TjTom
45
Sep 30, 2019
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yokkenJust a quick note about the Bonavita, I have use 2 different units for the last 4 years, while I like the way it works the life of the unit is just about the time it is out of warranty. You can not use harsh chemicals to clean the lime build up which really affects the way it brews in about a year, I have had to manually tear apart the machine and grind or scrape the inside of the boiler which is made of aluminum, not copper like the Technivorm or stainless in a Bunn, you can not use the best de-scaler on aluminum. I have hard water but started the Bonavita on RO water (stopped because of taste), then spring water, it still scaled bad and was impossible to clean to function normally. The Bonavita works well but is still a throw away machine at a higher price, now I am looking for a unit I can service correctly (differently), probably a Bunn or a Technivorm.
Sep 30, 2019
yokken
117
Oct 1, 2019
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TjTomGood to know! I honestly haven't used my drip machines more than a half dozen times each in the few years I've owned them, since I'm usually making coffee for one (me!) so I haven't had to do any cleaning. Though, I probably should, before I use either one again...
Oct 1, 2019
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