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Helpbot
310
Nov 6, 2019
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What's that other output in the front? 3.5mm??
Nov 6, 2019
JJayJJ
472
Nov 6, 2019
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HelpbotFrom Left to Right 6.3mm Single-Ended 4.4mm Balanced Pentacon 4-pin Balanced XLR
Nov 6, 2019
Helpbot
310
Nov 6, 2019
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JJayJJOhh, okay. do the XLR and 4.4mm have the same output specs?
Nov 6, 2019
JJayJJ
472
Nov 6, 2019
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HelpbotAccording to the specification sheet, yes sir they most certainly have the same output specs. If you'd like specifics: You can see here for yourself
Nov 6, 2019
Dmac6419
194
Nov 7, 2019
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Nov 7, 2019
tuga45
32
Nov 7, 2019
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JJayJJHi once again, i´m sorry to bother you again but you seem to me like a guy who knows much more than me regarding this little hobby. In terms of perfomance what do you think would be a better stack, topping dx7 pro with THX 789 or 887, or the RME ADI-2 with one of the those Amps? Asking this because i have the RME, but i´m thinking of putting teh RME on a room with 2 active monitor ( Adam 7) that i have, and build a new stack in my bedroom for headphone listening.
Nov 7, 2019
JJayJJ
472
Nov 7, 2019
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tuga45It's not bother at all, ask as many things as you'd like. As for what is better in terms of performance? Well evidently, the DX7 Pro is one of the best devices ever confirmed from a performance perspective, there's rarely much better than it. From a performance perspective, it beats the RME ADI 2 (the only thing it seems the ADI 2 DAC has over it, is seemingly the IEM port that pretty much is the best in the business for sensitive IEM's). But, as always when we talk about devices beating each other in this realm, if we're talking about performance (in terms of distortion/noise, and not something like overall power output), the differences are pretty much inaudible. But again, if we're talking about performance in reality based on objective fact, yes the DX7 Pro beats the RME nonetheless. Though I would say, if you're going to throw the RME to do speaker duty, then there would be no need to stack a 789 with a DX7 Pro at all in my opinion (for the RME it might make sense if you need a 4pin balanced connector that the RME lacks, so a 789 might make sense..) but because the DX7 Pro has a balanced connector, you have zero need for the 789 at that point. If you have unlimited funds, then I say you can get whatever you like, and all of these devices will pass the test of audible transparency (meaning you virtually will never be able to tell one from the other if you have volume levels matched). So the only thing again, is to care about what features/looks/etc.. each device brings to the table. The RME on speaker duty may be pretty cool using a remote with all its functions and DSP, so that can be a decent choice to make. But pairing a 789 up with a DX3Pro seems redundant in nearly every case if you ask me personally. Though there is one setup I think you may like, and not have to waste as much money on. Getting a Sabaj D5 for it's DAC section (it's pretty much one of the best performers period, and the best performer at it's price regardless of anything), and pair that up with the Monoprice 887 amp. That combination right there is pretty much the best performance for the money ever discovered through testing in audio. I would say to me personally, that makes far more sense than a DX7 + 887/789. But if money is no object, you can go either route and still get state of the art performers.
Nov 7, 2019
Dmac6419
194
Nov 7, 2019
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JJayJJHead over to audiosciencereview,those guys can answer any questions you may have.
Nov 7, 2019
JJayJJ
472
Nov 7, 2019
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Dmac6419That's pretty much the only place that provides objectively factual information on any of these products, so all my disucssions are based on their results.
Nov 7, 2019
tuga45
32
Nov 7, 2019
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JJayJJYes you are right on the money, i have already thought on the sabaj as a dac, the amp isworse than rme, but i don't have endless funds, i think i will stick with the rme for now in terms of dac it has a lot of more features than dx or sabaj on dsp and speaker duty. The separate headamp idea was because i wanted a separate with a balance connection, on that regard do you honestly think there is an audible diference between balance and single ended? Don't get me wrong but sometimes i tjink i am being a little FOMO, know what mean?
Nov 7, 2019
JJayJJ
472
Nov 8, 2019
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tuga45With respect to your question of an audible difference between balanced and single ended. Highly doubtful under almost any circumstance. There is one caveat though. If you're having group-loop issues or just an awful electrical setup in your home, then balanced may immunize you from that sort of stuff. Aside from that one caveat, there's no differences with the devices we're talking about between SE and Balanced I'd wager. Oh and I will forever keep my RME until these other companies eventually wake up, and realize people want a bit more software/support in their devices for things like DSP and such. I'm really surprised how DAP's have so much software and things like EQ, while most DAC's and such are just in some sort of hibernation phase, completely oblivious to a great new feature they can add to their DAC to make it a very serious selling point like the RME was for me. It's been over a year since the RME released, and it still makes all other DAC's look like stone-age technology.. They really need to start adding more features, the audibility of devices these days are approaching full transparency at every price. They're going to need to start competing with secondary features, not simply performance anymore.
Nov 8, 2019
tuga45
32
Nov 8, 2019
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JJayJJLike you i really like me RME, giving it a little more thought i don´t find an objective reason to buy a DX7 or anything else at this point, in terms of performance and overall quality of the product. Some weeks ago i tried a Exasound E32 and honestly i yhink the sound coming out of RME is better than the Exasound imo, and is more expensive by a bit, i think the implementacion of the RME is very good compared to others, ofcourse it can be that i am use to listen to the RME, but i don´t see anyone with the EXa, and see a lot with the RME, and in terms of features imo its unbeatable. I will be using it as DAC/HEADAMP and also with my Adam monitors, and if i ever NEED a separate HeadAmp, will probably buy a 789/887. But right now i am happy. On this hobby i persue the best sound we can get, but sometimes we end up spending money without a need fot it, in my case it wouldn´t take the food out of my mouth just leave abad taste. Anyway thanks a lot for the help. It´s awesome to have someone who knows and it´s glad to help out!! :)
Nov 8, 2019
JJayJJ
472
Nov 8, 2019
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tuga45Anytime tuga, we're pretty fortunate to be at a time where we have devices that are just so good, almost any choice you make these days, you can get something relatively good compared to devices of just a few years ago. These days if you ask me, the actual limit of sound quality isn't even in our amps and dacs much anymore(unless you're a fan of tube devices, then I suppose there is room for improvements there though even those are getting much better, it's just we have idiotic companies that publish no results or specifications about their devices, selling scams essentially), it's mostly the performance of our speakers, IEM's and headphones that I feel still has the most room to grow.
Nov 8, 2019
tuga45
32
Nov 9, 2019
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JJayJJI completely agree with you on that matter. Btw i would your opinion on this, i thinking of upgrading my source which is my HP laptop, i was thinking on this 3 options; Bluesound node2, Macmini, or an old PC with Linux installed and 1 TB disk. The fist one is the more expensive, the mac is 130€ byt i would have to put a little more in RAM and Disk, the PC would be around 200-220€ with Linux, RAM and disk already taken care. What do you think is best option? And if you have any others, please share. Thanks
Nov 9, 2019
JJayJJ
472
Nov 10, 2019
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tuga45Well a source doesn’t really matter if we’re still talking about some sort of performance numbers for example (though I have seen oddities using USB sources that sometimes don’t provide things like full 5V power if the USB port is part of the same hub controller that is saturated with other devices hooked up as well, and a computer too old or too riddled with background processes slowing the whole thing down). But it I suppose it really comes down to whichever is most convenient for you. Otherwise I don’t see a need for upgrading you HP laptop is everything functions properly. If you’re asking about upgrades what offer better “creature comforts” (meaning space saving form factor, or something that look nicer) that I really don’t think my opinion would be something anyone would or should care about I imagine.
Nov 10, 2019
MusicIsGreat
205
Nov 25, 2019
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tuga45I would instead buy the DAC and Headphone Amp separately. Most of the time DAC and headphone amp in same package uses a weak headphone amp implementation just so the price can be kept lower. Monoprice THX headphone amp should be a very good buy, reviews are positive. I’d buy a DAC with balanced XLR outputs and connect it to the headphone amp XLR inputs and you’d be golden. Might be able to buy a cheaper DAC without headphone amp. So that you’d have maybe similar price and a little higher but each would give you the best they are capable of.
Nov 25, 2019
tuga45
32
Nov 25, 2019
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MusicIsGreatI got the RME ADI-2, that already has an excellent Amp, but in the future if i need to buy a separate amp, i would go for the 'best for the buck' that gives me something that the RME doesn´t have, more output power, balanced connection and just being separate. For me it would be the Monoprice THX 887 or the Drop THX 789. Same price, excellent features, as HeadAmps go, for me it perfect. No nedd for nothing else in amplification terms.
Nov 25, 2019
MusicIsGreat
205
Nov 25, 2019
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tuga45I’ve just ordered the Monoprice THX 887, supposed to get it by beginning of December (don’t like waiting for things for more than few days) and fully refundable within 30 days if I don’t like it. Will let you know what I find. I have an Oppo Sonica DAC that performs extremely well so hoping this will be end game headphone amp combined with that DAC. I am going to get a Schiit Saga S pre-amp, a must have when you have many inputs specially balanced XLR. This is my bedroom settings that and the Adams Artist line of bookshelf speakers combined with their Artist Sub. AMT ribbon tweeters are just amazing sound wise when using powered speakers.
Nov 25, 2019
tuga45
32
Nov 25, 2019
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MusicIsGreatYou mean Schiit Freya+, it´s the one with balanced connections, the SAGa don´t have XLR. It would be great if give some impressions about your new 887, i am looking to know more about that Amp. Because i thinking on pulling the trigger on that Amp, to stack with the RME, and having all the options covered. But only if it adds something to the RME. You are like me, waiting for something after payment more than a few days it´s not my cup of tea. 30days refund is good. Drop THX AAA 789 is an option as well. But i think the 887 will come out a bit superior, let me know when you can. Appreciated. Thanks. :) :)
Nov 25, 2019
JJayJJ
472
Nov 25, 2019
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tuga45Get the 887, no sense in waiting unless you prefer the aesthetics.
Nov 25, 2019
tuga45
32
Nov 25, 2019
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JJayJJAesthetics is not my priority, but if it was, i prefer the 887. Thanks JJayJJ. :)
Nov 25, 2019
JJayJJ
472
Nov 25, 2019
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tuga45Luckily then the choice is easy, the 887 seems to be top tier. And at it's price, definitively so. Good luck tuga, hope you get your setup up and running with success.
Nov 25, 2019
tuga45
32
Nov 25, 2019
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JJayJJSo do i, my friend, so do i. So far, so good. Thanks once again.!
Nov 25, 2019
nick_t
186
Feb 17, 2020
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JJayJJSo among of all the alone amp and dac or amp/dac combo, which is the best state of the art performers both objectively speaking and regardless whether we can tell the difference or not in transparency and distortion levels. Also, isnt the Sabaj D5 an amp as well instead of just a DAC. Or where you referring the dac chip using is the state of the art but what about its amp ?
Feb 17, 2020
tuga45
32
Feb 17, 2020
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nick_tHi nick_t. The sabaj has an excelent Dac but the amp portion is not at the same level as the dac, its not bad, but for a combo Dac/amp, there are better options. Now for the first part of your question it really depends on the price range. For exmple i have a RME adi-2 Dac, that a combo with a very good and great features DAC and a very good amp for 1000$. the DX7 pro is a very good combo, excelent dac and good amp but if you have dinamic HP with low impendance isn´t the right choice. Monoprice 788 is another good combo, but the Dac portion isn´t top of the line like the DX or sabaj D5. It depends on your price range, if you give one i can name you same sugestions. Hope i help.
Feb 17, 2020
nick_t
186
Feb 17, 2020
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tuga45What do you mean by better options ? Better in a sense of features or measurements ? So let me put it into several perspective that based on your summary, sabaj Dac is good but not as good as RME adi-2 Dac ? So in summary just Dac alone not Amp or combo, DX7>RME>sabaj>monolith ? Very good amp for $1000 ? So how much is better for an amp ? I thought all neutral linear amp sounds the same. Why isnt the right choice if you use efficient cans for DX7 pro ? My price range is $2000.
Feb 17, 2020
tuga45
32
Feb 17, 2020
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nick_tI´m sorry for the delay. what i meant was that if you are looking for combo dac/amp i need it to know some sort of price range. Better in terms of features, the Sabaj has an excelent DAC, it measures a little better than the RME, but the RME has a lot more features(maybe you need them, maybe you don´t), but the amp is not at the same level as the RME or the 788. More output power, lower noise floor, as crossfeed, low output impendance and some other features. I just think that for a combo you would want a Dac and an AMP more or less at the same level. DX7 pro has excelent DAc but the amp has a high output impendance, which means that low impendance cans will not pair well. In my opinion RME>DX7>sabaj>monolith788. On your price range i would consider the RME, Benchmark DAC3 ad also Matriz element i. But in my opinion, and that´s just my opinion with 2000$ i would get too good separates, because with that budget you can buy a excelent DAC and a very good amp.
Feb 17, 2020
JJayJJ
472
Feb 18, 2020
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nick_tBest what though? Most connections, most power output, build quality, low THD, features? If you want simply raw transparency and power, the best AMP currently for the price is the THX 887 from monoprice. If you don't care about the insane amounts of power it provides (Im one of those people, its pointlessly powerful in my opinion if you're not deaf), then the Geshelli Archel 2.5 Pro on low gain is the cleanest amp ever measured. Also at $175 it's pretty much one of the best values. A close second to that is the new Schiit Magni Heresey (arguably better value maybe at $100). As for DAC, the literal best DAC in terms of performance currently overall is the Matrix Audio X-Sabre Pro ($2000). The Sabaj D5's Dac portion is pretty much the same as it. Also the Topping D90 as well for I think $700. As far as DAC+AMP, you have something like the Benchmark HPA4 ($3000) though performance at low levels for IEM's isnt the best. After that you have things like the latest RME ADI 2 DAC ($1200) (AKM 4493 varient). There is also a streamer again by Matrix Audio, the new Element I ($1,100 I think, though not the best performance, it has a good featureset). If you want another streamer, another contender and possibly the best DAC on the planet(also has a headphone jack) in terms of performance is the Okto Research DAC8 Stereo (good luck getting your hands on one of these, feels like its impossible) 1089€ starting price (without streaming). The best bang-for-buck AMP DAC that has great DAC performance and headphone AMP performance I would say is probably the Topping DX7 Pro. All of these are exceptional devices. You can't go wrong with any of these. But to quickly summarize. The best in each category: AMP: THX 887 Monoprice DAC: Matrix Audio Sabre-X Pro AMP/DAC: A tie between the Benchmark HPA4 and the Okto Research DAC8 Stereo (this hasn't been reviewed yet, but the prior varient has, and was a 8-channel DAC that spanked virtually all stereo DACs on the planet at the time, so the stereo will be an even better performer). The problem with your question is as I've told you before though. No one really understand what you mean by "best performance". Like if I had an amp that has the lowest distortion, but horrible channel balance. Would that be "best performance" in your definition? Also nick, just pick something already. You've asked this sort of stuff so many times, and people have tried explaining as best they can, with any of these products you're basically getting the best performance your ears wouldn't be able to discern. All these devices I talked about are only different from one another when you use a measuring device to tell them apart, otherwise you're not going to hear any of these differences as I told you long ago.
Feb 18, 2020
nick_t
186
Feb 19, 2020
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tuga45Yes usually separate amp and dac is always the best due to many reasons and one of them being able to upgrade and get the best amp and a dac for your budget and such. But of course, there some people just need amp/dac for whatever reasons. So for all the choices you made and recommend by others of the following: RME, DX7, sabaj, monolith788 and probably other stuff you can also recommend. Regardless of features, combo, separate, sonic difference, can you list which is the best amp and dac separately even consider combo. Best in a sense of measurement whether we can hear the difference or not. Both measurements and more power for both easy and hard to drive. Best amp (including combo): Best dac (including combo): Now, for $2000, why  Benchmark DAC3 ad also Matrix element when you have something cheaper that sound the same as most people say you cant hear the difference. Maybe you recommend because it measures slightly better and better features ? And by the way, isnt the Toping D90 similar to the Matrix Audio Element ?
Feb 19, 2020
nick_t
186
Feb 19, 2020
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JJayJJMy definition of best is regardless of built, marketing, price, actual sonic difference, design craftsmanship, combo, best in terms of power and measurements as well as perfect channel balance at the same. Putting other factors as irrelevant, just measurements and power. Measurements in terms of best THD and noise as well as FR or whatever, regardless whether can hear the difference or not. Hopefully you can include best amp and dac including amp/dac combo (power and measurements, not features, built, etc.....) List on orders. Amp: Dac: So regardless of whatever factors except power and measurements, why consider over $1000 and $2000 when there is no sonic difference ?  Between, Benchmark HPA4 and the Okto Research DAC8 Stereo, isnt the HPA-4 a standalone amplifier ? How is it a combo ? And maybe there are better and more expensive that you have not tried but measures better for amp and dac ? Between Matrix Audio Sabre-X Pro and Toping D90, which sounds better objectively on paper and sonic difference ? Why Matrix over D90 apart from features and design as well as marketing ?
Feb 19, 2020
tuga45
32
Feb 20, 2020
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nick_tHi nick_t. Best amp (alone) Benchmark HP4 (2000$), 887 (400$), Cayin IHA-6(700$), Rupert neve RHNP (500$) any of this are excelent amps in terms of power and measurements, channel balance low noise floor, low output impendance etc. The benchmark is the most expensive but its not the best in my opinion, the Cayin is a very good amp for the price, huge amounts of power and great measurements and lots of connections. BEST Dac (alone) Matrix X, Chord Qutest and Okto 8 (probably you never heard of it, its Serbian but its a VERY good Dac, its a combo also) D90 or D70 are also very good options and more affordable. But for a combo that has the best of both worlds (amp and dac) that you can have in piece of gear is in my opinion the RME adi-2. Take this with a grain of salt because i have one, but if you research on ASR for measurements, and ask or see what other people´s gear they have, you will see that many of them have the RME. The DX7 pro is a very good choice but the amp has 4,8 Ohm of output impendance(unbalanced), 9,8 OHm (balanced),which means that somer cans with low impendance will not be a good match. Hope i have helped.
Feb 20, 2020
nick_t
186
Feb 21, 2020
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tuga45Hello, why is the Benchmark HPA-4 is not the best in your opinion ? Is this the best Amplifier you ever heard in terms of linearity and neutral amp ? What about more expensive ones ? Also between the best DAC you suggested, which one comes in better objectively for measurements and power between Matrix Element X, Chord Qutest and Okto Research 8, of course regardless whether you can hear the difference or not. Which one is a combo you were referring by the way ? For the case of amp/dac combo, are there any more amp/dac recommendation at higher price ? Why all the hype only about toping, smsl and RME ? Between the most recommended RME adi-2, Toping DX7 Pro and Monolith THX 788 Amp/Dac which one is the best in terms of power and measurements for both amp and dac ? (forget features, audible difference just for pure performance) Between Matrix Audio Sabre-X Pro & Okto Research DAC8 Stereo and Toping D90, which sounds better objectively on paper and sonic difference ? Why Matrix over D90 apart from features and design as well as marketing ?
Feb 21, 2020
tuga45
32
Feb 22, 2020
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nick_tHello, nick_t. Ok, why is th HP4 not the best IN MY OPINION, because regardeless fo measurements i have heard it and to me there is better sounding amps for much less money. High end SS amps with great measurements; neurochrome HP1 (no longer available), and XI audio Formula S, great sounding amp(3500$) or Phonitor X (2500$) bloody good SS amp. As for the DAC, Matrix Element X is the best in terms of measurements, its also a streamer and a good HP amp. If i was in the market for a DAC alone i would go for the Chord Qutest because i love the sound of chord dacs, and of this one in particular, the Okto research is a combo (dac/amp). More expensive combos with very good dac´s and amps are the Hugo TT2 and the Chord Dave, being the last one End Game for many people in terms of sound quality and price (10.000$) The Hype is mainly because of price/performance ratio. Now between RME, THX 888 and topping, the best combo in terms of performance, measurements for both dac and amp is without a doubt the RME. The Matrix Sabre X measures extremely well and has MQA descodification, D90 don´t, Okto 8 i´m not sure, but from what i have heard it´s almost on pair with the matrix. If you have the money and want a combo, go for the RME, you won´t regret it. MY opinion, of course!! :)
Feb 22, 2020
nick_t
186
Feb 22, 2020
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tuga45I sent you one long message draft but accidentally close the windows browser. So am going to summarize everything now. Are you trying to say neurochrome HP1 (no longer available), and XI audio Formula S, and Phonitor X sounds better than HPA-4 ? In terms of audible difference and measurements ? Arent they as expensive as the HPA-4 as well ? Please explained. Isnt the Okto research 8 for Pro and Stereo a DAC only ? How is the amp section compare to the HPA-4 at least ? So between Okto research 8 vs Matrix Element X, which is better in terms of measurements and sound performance ? Why do you prefer Chord Qutest as you stated because i love the sound of chord dacs ? I thought dacs does not have coloration and signature only drivers and amplifiers. A dac is to simply converts a digital signal into an analog one so that your headphones can then create sound. What is the difference in sound for across different dacs ? Between Matrix Audio Sabre-X Pro & Okto Research DAC8 Stereo and Toping D90, which sounds better objectively on paper and sonic difference ? Why Matrix over D90 apart from features and design as well as marketing ? You did not answer this part. Now between RME, THX 888 and topping, the best combo in terms of performance, measurements for both dac and amp is without a doubt the RME. The Matrix Sabre X measures extremely well and has MQA descodification. Why does it sounds better than D90 ? Thought the D90 sounds better or similar to Matrix Element X ? Now regarding the RME adi-2 amp/dac combo comparing to the standalone amp, which one sound better in terms of power and measurements if comparing THX 789 and THX 888 HPA-4 ? What about RME dac compare to Toping D90 and Matrix Element X ? Now, apart from price per performance, what is the best amp/dac combo that beats the RME adi-2 in your experience and opinion ?
Feb 22, 2020
tuga45
32
Feb 23, 2020
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nick_tHi nick_t. Soory for the delay. First of all, my opinion its just my opinion, its not the absolute truth obviously, when i say that i like this more than that, it´s just my opinion. Second DAC´s, a dac does primarly conversion of the audio signal from digital to analogue, 0 and 1 to a waveform, but the waveform that comes out it´s not perfect, it´s nor as smooth as a waveform from a live perfomance. Chord´s dac´s adress this by using FPGA, a lot of them (software) to make that waveform as smooth as possible, which makes the music more enjoyable and agreeable because its closer to the sound of a live perfomance. That´s why i say and many others that Chord´s dac´s are some of the best, and the Qutest the best under 2000$ to me. Now HP4 i have heard it somewhere for half hour, some time after i heard the Rupert Neve (550$) amp and to me the sound of the Rupert is more pleasant, had more body, came out more effortlessly than the HP4, but to compare the HP4 to the Okto 8 it´s difficult, because i have never had then both at the same time. Now dac´s, if you listen to classical music or Well recorded music like jazz, or any music remasterded, or recorded in 60,70 or 80, having a very good dac paus off, If listen to POP, Rock or any music record on 90 and later, a 300$ dac is good enough (d50 , smsl su-8). Why? Because when music went digital, alot of studio start to compress their recording´s, mainly the ones that sold a lot, then came MP3 that made worst. So a Dac like D50 or similar is perfect good to take the bset of those recordings, but if you listen to several kinds of music a better dac will pay off. This to answer your questions about "is matrix-x, okto 8 or d90 better than that one in terms of permance or sound". The D90 is as good as matrix-x depending of what music and quality of recording you throw at it. If you care for MQA, Matrix is the answer, if not D90 is more than enough. The audible differences between Matrix or d90 isn´t immediatly noticeble if at all, it depends on the quality of the recording. I have never heard OKTO research 8 pro or stereo, but both are DAc/AMP, the Stereo is a streaming DAC. A better combo than RME, probaly the Benchmark DAC3, i have listen to it in a frind´s house and the sound to me seemed a little better than the RME but was 2700€, and the RME 950€. There is a new combo out there, the Rupet Neve Fidelice DAC, it´s s dac and a amp, never heard but from the review´s that i´`ve seen it´s soething to consider. It´s also expensive 4000$ +. John Darko bought one as soon it came out.
Feb 23, 2020
nick_t
186
Feb 24, 2020
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tuga45I wish you answer my statement and question accordingly that corresponding from each separate paragraph. But nonetheless, there are some reviewers out there including jay or couple of them say they cant hear the difference. Not just dacs even expensive solid state such as Drop vs HPA-4 for instance. But of course, either theirs or your opinion could be either wrong, and to me probably Gishelli Labs Dacs sounded the same as Chord Quetest. And by the way, Chord Quetest does not look good. From your perspective, Rupert Neve (550$) amp and to me the sound of the Rupert is more pleasant, had more body, came out more effortlessly than the HPA-4 ? Are you trying to say that the $550 solid state is better than that of $3000 solid state ? Make no sense right ? So I guess you cant answer me since you cannot get to demo the Okto research 8 side by side with the HPA-4 1) Now referring to my Dac comparison that have mentioned, have you demo the Toping D90 and Matrix Element ? If do have you A/B them ? So I guess if you were to put into percentage in your opinion, it would be 3% better than the D90 ? If so, is the air and depth quality is slightly better than the Matrix Element while the Matrix Element is slightly better in resolution than the D90 ? All in all, between Matrix Audio Sabre-X Pro and Toping D90, which sounds better objectively on paper and sonic difference ?  2) And from your last statement, meaning there other amp/dac combo that you have not heard before and cannot recommend for higher prices or such. Benchmark DAC3 is just a Dac so am sorry, that one not counted as combo. So I guess you cant suggest or recommend that is better than the expensive RME adi-2 as you have not heard many yet ? And yes, have heard about the Rupet Neve Fidelice DAC but I cannot afford. Does the Rupet Neve Fidelice DAC's measurement and power better than HPA-4 as an amp or Matrix Element X as a dac ? Of course, we would not know if we dont have measuring gear and even the unit to A/B for ourselves. Sometimes, I wish we can find everything in our local dealer or else we would not have this conversation and argument to begin with. 3) Now regarding the RME adi-2 amp/dac combo comparing to the standalone amp, which one sound better in terms of power and measurements if comparing THX 789 and THX 888 HPA-4 ? What about RME dac compare to Toping D90 and Matrix Element X ? I believe you have not answered this statement yet. 4) Correct me if am wrong, to me THX is the benchmark that every amp should be judge upon such as THX 789 and THX 888. As more expensive amp or combo sounds better but its either some magic they able to produce or slight coloured or either way. And even that expensive Rupet Neve Fidelice DAC is neutral and have some magic that sounds way better than the HPA-4, it takes away slightly from accurate measurement to produce that sonic magic or watever musical adjective you want to call it, wonderful or whatever. Meaning its not as linear as THX technology either way but slightly lean away its linearity measures. Similar I can also say from your examples from High end SS amps with great measurements; neurochrome HP1 (no longer available), and XI audio Formula S, great sounding amp(3500$) or Phonitor X (2500$) but slightly way of linearity with the HPA-4 but at least adds a bit more oomph to your sound ? I dont know, you tell me.
Feb 24, 2020
tuga45
32
Feb 24, 2020
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nick_tOk nick_t. Do i prefer the sound of Rupert Neve to HP4, 6 times the price? Yes i do. Is it weird? Maybe, but you have to take in account that in audio gear, after a certain level (depending on the gear) you hundreds or thousands of dollars for 5,10,15% of increase in quality or features. 1)I have heard D90 a couple of weeks ago in a audio store, the matrix sabre-x i have a friend that has one. Did i heard a big difference between the two? No i didn´t, as i said it dependes a lot of the music (quality of recordings) that you hear. Now objectively speaking i think that the Matrix sabre is better sonically and in measurements (paper?). Is there a difference acording to the price? No, there isn´t. IMO 2) My mistake, i mean´t Benchmark DAC3 HGC, that one is a combo. I haven´t seen any measurements of the Rupert Neve DAC, but of what i heard from known reviewers and from what i expected from this guy, it should be top of the line, but very expensive. Yes it would be great if there was a place where we could go and try whatever we wanted, and them buy, PARADISE. 3) 789; HP4-ADI amp. 789 and HP4 has more output power, the rest is more or less on the same level. D90; Matrix X - ADI DAC, both D90 and Matrix measure a little better than RME DAC. Would you notice sonically? Most probably not. 4) THX is what its called wire with gain. is it the Benchmark for amps? The wire with gain, yes. So i could say that THX would also be the benchmark, but the Phonitor X is also known to be wire with gain. It just does it in a different way. So if you want a amplifier as transparent as it can be without getting a morgage, the 789 is all you need. Seriously, the 789 or 887 are really excelent, top of the line amplifiers. Now some people prefer their sound a little north or south of neutral, and there is nothing wrong with that. It´s just a question of taste. Example Phonitor x is as wire with gain as the 789, but with much more power, more features and gives the chance to play with the sound that comes out, so you could give a little warmth to it or whatever. If you want linearity (like me) 789,887 is the best choice as SS amps go. For warmth i prefer Tubes.
Feb 24, 2020
nick_t
186
Feb 25, 2020
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tuga45Yes that is call diminishing returns which diminish higher in amp and dacs than headphones in general. What is the difference between the sound of  Rupert Neve and HPA-4 ? If the  Rupert Neve is nuetral and transparent then the HPA-4 is the same and probably should be more linear and reference of neutrality. But of course, we cant really tell the difference. If the Rupert Neve is more pleasant, had more body, came out more effortlessly than the HP4 then there must be some added sound/magic to it to sound smoother and effortless but still linear but not as linear as HPA-4. But what you were referring must be in a form of tonality. 1) Have you actually A/B test both Toping D90 and Matrix Element ?  All in all, between Matrix Audio Sabre-X Pro and Toping D90, which sounds better objectively on paper and sonic difference ? Where is the proof of your claimed of the measurements ? 2) So I guess you cant suggest or recommend that is better than the expensive RME adi-2 as you have not heard many yet ? And yes, have heard about the Rupet Neve Fidelice DAC but I cannot afford. Does the Rupet Neve Fidelice DAC's measurement and power better than HPA-4 as an amp or Matrix Element X as a dac ?  3) What about amplification power and measurements ? If its more power, which one measures better THX 789 vs RME adi-2 ? 4) THX is what its called wire with gain. is it the Benchmark for amps? The wire with gain, yes. So i could say that THX would also be the benchmark, but the Phonitor X is also known to be wire with gain. It just does it in a different way. Like I said before, THX would be described as a more linear and reference of neutrality. But of course, we cant really tell the difference. If the Rupert Neve is more pleasant, had more body, came out more effortlessly than the HP4 then there must be some added sound/magic to it to sound smoother and effortless but still linear but not as linear as HPA-4. Sound a little north or south of neutral is somewhere going against strict linearity of neutrality. So Rupert Neve and Phonitor X probably is added sound quality and north of southward of nuetral but not as reference and accurate linearity as the HPA-4. Thus, I think it takes away slightly from accurate measurement to produce that sonic magic or watever musical adjective you want to call it, wonderful or whatever. Meaning its not as linear as THX technology either way but slightly lean away its linearity measures. Neutral headphone usually sound a little north or south of neutral than a true linear sound otherwise most nuetral cans sounds boring perhaps. Now, what about 789/887 vs HPA-4 888 ? Slight difference by few percentage in sound quality ? Phonitor x is as wire with gain as the 789, but with much more power, more features and gives the chance to play with the sound that comes out, so you could give a little warmth. What about sound quality in general, which is better ? Phonitor x is a nuetral amp right ? Is it an EQ amp to play with the sound as well ? Yes, am with you. Solid states neutral and transparency while tubes warmth and coloured.
Feb 25, 2020
nick_t
186
Feb 27, 2020
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JJayJJWhat about Chord Quetst and other $2000 and $3000 dacs for full transparency and performance objectively speaking ?
Feb 27, 2020
tuga45
32
Feb 27, 2020
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nick_tHi. nick_t. Well, yes you could say that the Rupert has a more enjoyable tonality. 1) As for Matrix versus D90, i have heard both, but not at the same time, so A/B them only by memory. But if you want a straight answer to which is better. To me there is no doubt, it´s the Matrix Sabre, more resolution, lower noise floor, a more "refined" sound, also MQA decoding, now with that beind said the D90 is a very good DAC, that most people (including me) would be satisfied with its performance. If money wasn´t a problem i would get the Matrix Sabre any day. Proof of measurements go to ASR and you can see some. 2) I haven´t yet seen the measurements for the Rupert Neve DAC, so i can´t comment on that, but for the sake of argument, a Combo Dac/amp is never as good overall as an Amp or a Dac by itself, meaning the HP4 is probaly better as an amp than the amp in the Rupert Neve DAc, and the Matrix sabre better than the Dac in the Rupert Neve DAc. 3) THX 789/887 has more power than RME, channel balance, noise floor etc, the RME and THX 789/887 are almost hand in hand, but again an Amp alone is always a little better than an amp in a combo, in most cases. In this particular case RME v 789 the difference is very small with the exception of the power output. THX 789/887 is s better amp than the amp on RME? yes, by s small margin. 4) Hp4 is not worth the extra money when compared with 789/887. To me at least, no it isn´t. Now Is Phonitor X better than 789/887? In terms of sound quality, features, power output, YES, to me there is no doubt about it. Is it worth the price difference? Again probaly not, but against HP4, its worth every penny. Is it a neutral amp? Yes it is. But at this price range, you would have to hear it to know what you prefer. The JPS Element II seems a good choice, never heard it, but from what i have seen in Reddit and other forums it could be a thing to see. DX7 pro for 500$ is also a very good choice, if you see that you need a better amp, get the THX, and stay with a great pair for the price of RME. Just saying, of course.
Feb 27, 2020
JJayJJ
472
Feb 29, 2020
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nick_tDon’t know about those two, never heard them, never seen measurements of them. So I’m not really concerned. The Matrix is pretty much flawless in terms of performance, and also its build quality is perhaps my favorite (insane machining CNC work). I dont see why why you want every single detail about every single DAC that comes to mind. Why not just order these yourself and try them all out one by one, and keep the one you feel you like the most?
Feb 29, 2020
nick_t
186
Feb 29, 2020
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JJayJJThe answer is expensive. Also am curious objectively speaking and whether are there any benefits with features and measurement and such across all price range.
Feb 29, 2020
JJayJJ
472
Feb 29, 2020
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nick_tBut I've told you this weeks ago. If you need measurements, you can check out AudioScienceReview.com Whatever people send him, he will measure. He doesn't have every single device measured in every single possible way on Earth just to tell you every single inch of how a device is made. As for features across the price range, just visit the website of those devices, or send an e-mail or social media message to the company and they'll get you any answer you may need on how features and functions possibly work. We can't provide you with every single thing under the Sun. Next thing you're going to be asking is: "What is the exact metal grade being used for the case of this DAC?" Are you going to just keep asking for more months the same thing over and over? Just get one of them already, they're all good performers. I don't know why you put yourself through so much trouble trying to talk about potential differences in performance when these are all pretty much state-of-the-art devices. You say the answer is expensive, okay, so what? You expect people to buy every single device you keep talking about and test them side-by-side ourselves at the same time? Just decide on whatever looks good, or whatever you think may have nice features, and just get it already.
Feb 29, 2020
nick_t
186
Mar 1, 2020
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JJayJJNot everybody knows how to read AudioScienceReview, but I do, not all the time. Also he did not did not specifically state which is better than objectively and comparison aspects in words and adjectives. Also, I wonder whether he is using industrial standard measuring rig and DSP. There must be some reason not all manufacturer unwilling to show measurements on their website or manual. He does not have opportunity  measured in every single possible way on Earth just to tell you every single inch of how a device is made probably that is the problem. In terms of feature and function at every price point, that is the reason I asked, if dont know then its alright chill. Its about whether you experience and have knowledge with it and sharing that piece of information to people who are unfortunate with budget or countries that have inadequate information and products. Next thing you're going to be asking is: "What is the exact metal grade being used for the case of this DAC?" Sure of course if one get to experience and touch the DAC. I dont see the problem. No its not the same thing because its a different question and products. Maybe its the misinformation and lacking of explanation by someone. I asked because I want to know not because I only want to make my decision making but of course am looking to buy one for myself. Also, am looking for the balance between measurements, power, objective sound, features, looks and maybe also price per performance under certain category. Moving on, the answer is expensive, no I dont expect people to buy everything but some rich cat enthusiasts. If am one, I would do it and help others. Also, some of us might be measurement freaks anyway. And I think I already made my mind so ya
Mar 1, 2020
nick_t
186
Mar 1, 2020
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tuga45Anyway, how many amplifier and dac including combo do you own ?
Mar 1, 2020
JJayJJ
472
Mar 2, 2020
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nick_tNick, the point of measurements is so we don't have to waste our time with natural language, that can be manipulated and imprecise. When I see a AMP can produce 5 watts per channel if I use a measurement device. Why the hell do I need someone to tell me with words and adjectives how much it can produce? This is a pointless waste of time. As for a perfect balance. Can you at least give us your budget so we can present you with choices. Wasting so much time and now knowing this by now has become tiring. I don't say this to insult you or anything, it's just been far too many words exchanged for very little progress. If you want to learn more about products, then keep reading, contact the manufacturer with questions. If you want to learn on how to read measurements, that's what Google is for, or ask them here, or ask on that forum. There are lots of helpful people who would explain everything you might want to know. But there are limits, no one is going to give you a free college-level education of course. If you want to buy a product. Tell us for what purpose, and tell us your budget. Aside from these three. I don't see what much more else is there to discuss.
Mar 2, 2020
tuga45
32
Mar 2, 2020
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nick_tHi. nick_t. Right now i have two. Both combo´s, the RME as mencioned and the Chord Mojo. Those are mine. But i work in a place that as an auditorium and a studio recording facility, so i see and hear a lot of audio gear without spending money on it. Therefore i have some knowledge that otherwise i wouldn´t, but of course it´s always very subjective in this hobby. I see you running around with this. Simplify, today at 500$, 600$ and + you will always get a very good product( sound and measurements)
Mar 2, 2020
nick_t
186
Mar 2, 2020
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JJayJJAgain measurement dont tell us everything what we hear and there are things we they dont perceive us when hearing sound. Not necessary is all about scientific measurements and objective speaking at times. Also, what is wrong with natural language ? What do you mean by natural language ? If am wasting your time then am sorry. So that we know or maybe you dont know such adjectives which is alright. A pointless waste of time for you. No budget and like I said am asking for opinion and what they know through experience not necessary requesting for help. Most of our statement with others are not meant to be progression just an argument or friendly debate and such. Manufacturer unwillingly to help and give information, also you do know as well that audio industry is full of snake oil and bad customer service in requesting infomation as some are personal and confidential. As for measurements, am not asking you to read measurements for me. Measurements is not everything to me. If I want to buy a product, I will buy not because am asking you to help me for selection.
Mar 2, 2020
nick_t
186
Mar 2, 2020
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tuga45So you are not interested in going for separate Amp and Dac ? Yes I understand about $500 and $600 with sound and measurements. But most people dont make comparison with cheap vs expensive and across every $500 price range in sound and measurements. Just saying. And by the way, I cannot find anything that compete with the Toping D90 in its price range at its standalone DAC that can compete with Matrix.
Mar 2, 2020
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