Tuo Cutlery Ring D 8.5" Kiritsuke Chef's Knife Discussions | Drop

Mar 23, 2019

For $60.00, this is likely worth it. There are a couple of things that bother me, however. The HRC is listed as 58-62. Does this mean that the HT is lackluster, or could it mean that the blade is differentially hardened? I have never seen a range like this on an ESEE who is well known for doing this to their 1095 blades. An angle this narrow will not be supported by AUS-10 at HRC 58. Here is a quote from knarfeng, a moderator on BladeForums, "AUS 10 should be roughly equivalent to VG10, 440C, or N690 as all four have the same carbon content. By roughly equivalent, that is all three hold an edge better than 440B, AUS8; but not as well as ATS34, 154CM and above. " (This was from 2006) I may take a look at Chefsknivestogo.com to see if this has any reviews. I would also like to know that the second steel is in the damascus. Or is it simply pretending to be damascus. Caveat cheftor.

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May 15, 2019

14themoneyYeah, looks very much like a single steel that's been laser etched...though can't say for sure just by those pics But, was this really only $60 when it dropped 2 months ago? Price went up $10 in just 2 months?

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May 15, 2019

KavikI feel confident that this is not a typo on my part. The Gent went up $20, so why shouldn't this. The name is shortening (not Crisco), and the prices are rising. I have to wonder if this place and Denmark have something in common.

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May 16, 2019

14themoneyThe Gent supposedly went up because they weren't charging enough for things they (drop) produce. They've yet to come out and say they're upping all drop prices just to up their profit margins, but.........yeah......

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May 17, 2019

14themoneyCan we also take a moment to reflect on the fact that it lists the bevel angle as 8-12° (or 16-24° inclusive)? Aside from being a pretty acute angle for what could be a 58hrc.....that's a huge range for the bevel as well lol I could eyeball the difference between 8 and 12 degrees. Do they not have any sort of guide for sharpening? Or half way experienced people finishing that task? 😂

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May 17, 2019

KavikCall me a relic, call me what you will Say I'm old-fashioned, say I'm over the hill Unequal grinding is a real big deal A 50-50 just makes me squeal,,,,,,,, .........with delight. I do not enjoy using blades with unequal grinds. I think I'm about to take the plunge on a Apex Edge Pro. My free hand skills have yet to be perfected.

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May 17, 2019

14themoneyOh my god... I didn't even consider that it was an asymmetrical bevel lol I was looking at it as a range, like the 58-62 hrc Well that's embarrassing 🤣 I can only blame it on posting while exhausted Edit: funny parody songs aside, asymmetric bevels do serve an important purpose if your knife has an asymmetric grind. Forcing a 50/50 on any traditional Japanese knife is going to cause you issues with steering If done properly, you shouldn't know it's asymmetrical when using it, it should cut straight. Only time you should know you're handling an asymmetrical knife is during sharpening. I don't own one of those types of sharpeners myself...but from what I've read, your only hope of using them properly on a Japanese knife is to adjust the angle for each side between strokes....sounds like a real pain in the ass.

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May 18, 2019

KavikI would like you opinion on sharpeners. I have DMT Dia-Sharp stones, a rudimentary Lansky set, WSKO, the WorkSharp Guided System, and a SSM. I have two Japanese knives, and both carry an equal bevel. I don't have any feel for the KME. I am reluctant to drop the amount of cash the the WE people want for their upscale model.

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May 18, 2019

14themoneyIt's a very subjective topic...there's not really any one perfect system. The right one is always going to be the one that an individual is most comfortable with and is willing to use on a regular basis. I mean, what good is having a thousand dollar water wheel setup if it's so cumbersome that you never want to take it out and use it? Every method is full of pros and cons...but unfortunately it's not a cheap hobby to experiment in while trying to find what works for you. I can't give any real advice on the KME vs WE decision, as I've never used either. I'm curious to try them, and maybe some day I will...but I just feel that for that kind of money they shouldn't be so limiting. WE, for example...if you have 2 swing arms, why in the world can't you set the angle on each arm independently on a $900 sharpening system? That's just short sighted and kinda lazy designing if you ask me. I dunno, every time I read up about those guided swing arm type systems it just feels like their primary audience is people who's main concern is how the knife looks when it's done, over how it cuts. That's not to say you can't get a great cutting edge off them...it's just that that seems to be a secondary concern in so many of the discussions, which irks me a bit. They also limit you to a specific range of angles. 15 being the lowest, if I remember right. For most things it's fine, but it's never going to be a one stop system for kitchen knives. You're never going to thin behind an edge on that system, for example. So eventually you have to learn to freehand on a stone for that part anyway. The WSKO... I have one of those as well. It's an interesting bit of gear, but it's also very limiting on what angles you can use (and I don't find the angle guide to be very secure, it's very easy to accidentally go off angle) and with how fast it can remove material, you have to learn to move flawlessly and without hesitation, to be sure each part of both sides of the blade are staying even. I hang onto it for removing a lot of material quickly, for rough shaping, to save my stones from a lot of unnecessary wear honing through a badly damaged edge. Some people may have mastered that one, but I haven't tried that hard, I just don't enjoy using it enough to bother (like the point I made at the beginning) I'm a fan of the SSM. It's quick to set up, quick to use, works the same on different length blades, handles recurves. It's my go to when I just need a quick edge on something that I just need to be sharp and don't need anything fancy (like for pocket knives, utility knives, cheap kitchen knives) But it's a beginners tool. I don't mean that negatively, it does what it does well, and it's very convenient, but it takes care of your edge, and nothing more. You won't be using it it thin behind your edges, you won't be using it to adjust bevels to compensate for steering, etc. I think bench stones are always going to be the most versatile option. Recurves aside, they are the only thing that will really be able to handle anything you can throw at them. Knives, tools, scissors. Reprofiling an edge (after your WSKO accidentally wore a reverse belly into the heel of your chef knife). Thinning behind your edge as the knife wears. Thinning out a distal taper when you want a more nimble tip. Dealing with the multiple facets of single bevel knives. Tweaking asymmetrical grinds and bevels. And on and on and on.... But, yeah, they're also the one with the most difficult learning curve. I can't answer what's best for you, but for me personally, I would take that $800 you're thinking about dropping on a WE, put about $250 into some good water stones, $100 or so into a lapping plate (like a large DMT XC, or similar), take $50 to garage sales or goodwill or something and buy a bunch of cheap ass kitchen knives to practice on...and have $400 left over for the knife budget 😁 Then just dedicate a couple hours a week to studying and practicing.

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May 18, 2019

14themoneyOh, forgot to ask, what are the two knives you mentioned? Just out of curiosity :)

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May 18, 2019

KavikGihei Nakiri, 165mm, Blue#2 Konosuke HD2 Gyuto, 240mm, custom I also have a Richmond Artifex Gyuto, 240mm, BD1N. This really seems more like a Western knife. to me. HRC is 63. All of these came from chefknivestogo.com

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May 18, 2019

14themoneyMan, my eyes must be going on me lol That Gihei and the Kono both look asymmetrically ground in the choil shots on CK2G...really surprised to see them say they have a 50/50 edge Agreed... Richmond being a 50/50 surprises me less

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May 18, 2019

KavikI have a DMT, coarse, 8"x3"; fine and extra fine, both 2.5"x11.5"

May 18, 2019

KavikThey look and feel 50/50 in person. I wouldn't have ordered them without confirmation of that. I am still early into knives and was, and probably still am, leery about asymmetric grinds. After your great advice about the Swordfish, I might try an asymmetric J knife in the future.

May 19, 2019

14themoneyLol don't take just my word, but do do some reading up online if you're curious. I'm not nearly the expert that many others are. I did look around a bit regarding the Kono though, as i have a Konosuke Fujiyama 120mm petty in white #2 steel...and even as a petty, this one looks a bit asymmetrically ground (though, the bevel does indeed appear to be 50/50-ish. I haven't sharpened it yet, as I haven't set the new handle on it yet... But it cut like a dream when I temporarily slapped it in a different handle). What I found was a lot of sellers saying these are evenly ground, and sharpened at 50/50, but a lot of users talking about sharpening them asymmetrically....which isn't usually needed unless a blade is asymmetrically ground.......so, yeah, I'm still confuse on that one lol

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May 19, 2019

KavikI have spent time on the internet about sharpeners. I feel that I am overflowing with knowledge and totally devoid of wisdom. I have picked up most of my sharpeners from SMKW, one every time or two that I visited my first born and her family. The WSKO was actually purchased in San Antonio some years ago. I got interested in sharp knives long before I became interested in knives themselves. All my daughters are almost happy to see me as they are the WorkSharp when I come to visit.******************I actually spoke with someone that I believed to be the inventor of the Apex. He was quite affable and very low pressure. He seems very easy to get a hold of. I like my rudimentary Lansky. I can get fairly close to the matching the bevel on my knife using a Sharpie. The adjustment is not infinite, which it is with the Apex. The synthetic water stones are replaceable on this. If I could stop buying knives, I could probably afford the sharpener. I just ordered a Steel Will Roamer, 5.5", D2, from Midway for $45. Clearance. Last one.

May 19, 2019

14themoneyDon't feel bad about that. I do alright. And compared to literally everyone I know "in real life", I can out sharpen all except maybe one of them...and he uses the WorkSharp. I can outdo him freehand on stones. But compared to some of the results I see from people online, they make me look like a complete novice lol Btw, i gotta thank you for bringing all this up. The only reason I ended up with a Fujiyama version of a Konosuke petty was because I got the blade at a massive discount with no handle and a slightly wonky tang.....that's the reason I never got around to finishing putting it together, because I couldn't get the blade to line up quite right with the handle But thanks to this discussion making me think about the knife, and the WSKO, I just used that to finish reshaping the tang and getting it aligned. I just need to re-sand the handle one final time (the thuya burl must not have been fully dry when I started, it shrunk a bit, no longer perfectly flush with the buffalo horn ferrule), apply finish, then assemble and I'll finally get to use the damn thing after...hell,I can't even remember how long lol Assuming I don't screw up the glue up...it'll be my most prized and highest quality (and value) kitchen knife to date 😁

(mockups from before. The gap at the bottom of the tang is now gone)

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May 19, 2019

KavikWOW! That's beautiful. Great work, Kavik.

May 19, 2019

14themoneyThanks man 😁 Yeah, i really love the overall look. Couple things didn't turn out as well as they could've, it was my first attempt, but I can't bring myself to chucking it and starting fresh Really looking forward to re-handling a couple others though, and learning from the mistakes I made on this one 😉👍

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May 19, 2019

KavikSome of my best learning comes thru the mistakes that I have made. I wish it were otherwise, but, sadly, it is not.

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