RyanPinHi I see you have one in the flesh maybe you can answer this question, my xd-05 at the moment has the v5i from burson in it but that is a single dual opamp from marketing it looks like the plus has two individual dip slots for two single op amps is this right or is it still one single opamp slot and now is a single or still a dual? If possible can you take an internal picture of your unit and if so at least slide out to maybe where the battery is? Thanks.
i did the same thing with my xd05 with the Burson v5i dual op amp. I went ahead and opened the Plus and took some pictures. There is one chip in there stock, but from the photos that I took, it looks like you could fit 2 single op amps into it. I’m going to email Burson these photos and ask what they think can and should be done. I hope the photos help. I took one of the single op amp chip as well with the numbers on it.
Update: Heard back from Burson, you can either put in two singles or one dual op amp. Apparently either way works just as well. If you have an upgraded op amp, just pop that over. I’m trying out two singles just to see if it fits.
3georgia16OP amp is like a small chip that plays into the sound signature and can be replaced with others more improved and better built. It's an easy pull out the existing one and push in the new one. They are very small has about 8 pins and looks like a computer chip.
RyanPinThanks for the info iv never seen an arrangement like that before. Socket wise. Your stock opamp pic is hard to read though can you write the 3 lines down it says?
rvcjewTI OPA
1512A
920 R1
from what I've read and put together so far, I think that you can either do a single dual op amp, like the one that is stock, or you can do two individual op amps in tandem. I am waiting to hear back from Burson about this before I make a purchase. I am also going to see how putting the v5i dual op amp into the Plus turns out.
RyanPinAh, that would be intresting. Burson has sent me some review stuff over the years (I mean I spent a bit on the v5d 3x for my still used xonar stx and still love it) and so have a fair bit of their different ones but only some in single they gave me for the "play" review. I almost cut a hole in my xd case to keep a v5d in there. But decided the v5i was enough for portability sake and tsa already hates the look of the xD as its not very average looking.
RyanPinHow you would compare soundwise the stock op amp of plus model with the v5i when it's in the plus model? Do they have significant sound differences?
3georgia16It provides me with a bit more detail and clarity to your music. Honestly, it's subtle. I wish I could explain using better words or terms, but to me it sounds better. I guess is would be like going from a 1080p screen to 1440p. A little more defined quality, but if you didn't have something to compare against you probably would know there was a difference.
3georgia16I bought the v5i separately from the Burson Audio website. Here’s a comparison from the stock op amp
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to the v5i dual op amp chip. You buy it, open it up, and switch it out. Very easy to do. No soldering.
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update: I wanted to add to this post that two single op amps work on here too
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. I’ve noticed after a few days of using it that the sound is clearer, and that there is better separation in the music that before. I will say though if you already have a dual chip, then stick with that. It’s a small upgrade at most
RyanPinOK! I didn't know that. So you change a part of the amplifier.. Again I wish the plus model had a THX AAA amp with 1000mw power, It would be an unmatched product.
3georgia16It would also probably be out of my price range then. If the thx aaa amp is 400 dollars and it’s only the amp, I’d hate to see what this would cost then.
3georgia16I don’t think so, I think that it’s an actual amplifier chip, rather than an op amp. I think that would also require significant soldering. This is all above my pay grade and knowledge though.
so I got the single op amps today, here they are installed. To be honest, it’s a really tight fit in there. I wouldn’t say that they are sitting flush or level, but they are installed.
As for sound improvement? Maybe a little? There is maybe even less hiss that what was there previously, and it might be clearer. But I can’t say how much of that is just wishful hoping because it’s two chips instead of one dual. I will say with certainty that it does not sound worse, but improvement is incremental at best.
I’m going to keep mine this way, also because I’m selling my old xd05 with the dual op amp chip with it.
In the end, if you are upgrading from the xd05 to the plus, and you have a dual chip already, I think you’ll be good. I’m not sure if the improvements, if any beyond psychological, make it sound better. Plus a single dual chip is cheaper than two single chips.
I wish that there was an easier way to compare against one another, maybe I just need a few more days with it.
RyanPinI wonder if they need to match even? The singles I mean. I don't have any hiss with my xd05 and stock or v5id just just makes different signatures with it maybe cleaner on the v5id. You mean like noise floor hiss? Depends on how sensitive your iem or headphones are too though.
rvcjewI think that it might just be cleaner. I wish that I could express the idea better, without always falling back on the same terms over again. It still sounds great though.
rvcjewI just open my new xd05 plus to put in my dual amp, and the two single amp slots intrigues me. Does it cut out in high gain like the original xd05, and if it does maybe two singles helps correct that issue, spreading the load. But that’s coming from someone who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
ZakmllrHigh gain does not cut out anymore with the upgraded op amps. I’ve done it with both the singles and dual and it works perfectly now. I’m glad they fixed that issue
3georgia16@RyanPin@3georgia16 USB chargers will go at 5 volts and USB devices designed to charge off USB will be designed to charge at 5 volts. Amperage when charging is irrelevant as the device itself will limit the current that can flow meaning if you have an infinite amp charger the device will take as much as it wants and nothing more.
afk.or.feedI have some coming (bought off burson site) so will update when I got them. I would think the sound stage would change some but for the cost I'd prob go singles as it cost $10 more for the two single chips, $15 shipping though). I have also ordered the new bl pro for the usb-c and ldac as well thanks for the tip. I got mine from penon audio.
rvcjewI would also recommend the two singles. I did both and if you’re starting clean, might as well take advantage of the situation. Just be aware that the sitting of the two singles will be a little tight. After a couple of months with them, I have thoroughly enjoyed them.
I would love to hear what you think about the dual singles when you install them as well.
rvcjewYou don't have any experience with the full sized burson op amps do you (v5/v6)? I'm not sure how large they are, but tempted to see if there's a way you could squeeze them in sideways using these: https://www.bursonaudio.com/product/35mm-extension-lead-x-2/
afk.or.feedI have a lot of experience of this. You would need to cut a hole and run it externally. I've done it before as a concept. My fav from them is the v5. I still run it on my pc with an stx for my main rca output with one of those extensions.
I don't not work for Burson they just sometimes ask me to make an opinion about stuff after I orginaly spent like $200 in opamps in 2016. So far they have sent me the v6 and v5i and a Burson play. Here's links to what I thought if your interested as well as some pics.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/review/21205/ play review.
Stx and v5i links. As well as a good size comparison one post down.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-xonar-essence-stx-q-a-tweaking-impressions-thread.421890/page-374#post-14147114
Current STX setup
rvcjewwow, those look a lot bulkier in context. Yeah I can't see that fitting inside no matter which way you put it. Kinda makes me want to look for a broken XD-05 Plus on ebay and cut open the case on that so I could switch it out as needed :D
Thanks for the links, I'll check that out as well. I haven't done much with PC sound cards admittedly. My current setup is actually all off of an HP ZBook with an eGPU all my peripherals on a thunderbolt dock. Using an ASUS Xonar U7 USB sound card wired to my 5.1 surround setup. I don't suppose there's much you could do with that as far as mods/upgrades go?
afk.or.feedThat I'm not sure but the add-in card days are pretty much dead going external like you did is generally better, mine has some driver fits at times and I don't use stock asus drivers either I use the good uni's driver. To get that in the xD's you need to like use a drill press or good bit to cut the a hole in the top and feed in the extender then tape the extender down or something. Then you could swap what ever oppamp you want but the whole thing would be pretty big for portable, like an inch thick. I thought about daisy chaining the extenders to make the opamp rest on the side too but at that point your never getting on a plane with this thing.
rvcjewI wonder if you went full DIY and off the deep end, if you could get something to work internally. I'm thinking like sanding down the unnecessary upper rail in the inside of the case, resoldering the capacitors at different angles, and moving other things around to make room for a V5. Not doing this on my only XD-05, but definitely could be a fun project in the future.
Completely off topic, but you have quite a bit more experience with this, so just throwing it out there. Do you know of any recommendations for operating temperature ranges for DAC/Amps? It gets pretty cold where I live (last week's highs were like 6F, and it's not uncommon to see temps hit -10F to -20F by January. I worry about damage to my headphones out in the cold quite often, but at least they're closed off against my head. I'm also concerned about accumulating condensation when going back inside. Wondering how cold might be too cold to keep taking the DAC outdoors . . .
RyanPinwewww my op amps arrived today. and boy they are a tight fit. having trouble getting the second one down far enough for the case to close without rubbing the edge of it. Any tips?
Edit: got them in there... I guess? One of them is sitting at quite the angle, but it works. I'm going to have to do some serious listening the next couple days to compare the sound.
afk.or.feedMine slighty rubs on the top one. One has to be slightly angled. It will close the shell though if you lift up a little while sliding it shut and doesn't seem to impact any performance.
afk.or.feedThey are going to be angled a little bit, but nothing should break when you put it in. I think you’d have to do a lot to damage them. In the end they will fit. Let us know what you think of the sound and if you can tell a difference.
RyanPin@rvcjew
yup, I managed to squeeze it in there finally. It's kinda nerve-racking having them sit like that but I guess it's fine? 🤷🏻♂️
I'm hearing an improvement for sure. Hard to pinpoint exactly what it is, but everything sounds cleaned up a bit. Some combination of better separation and imaging I think?
On the other hand, this might be all in my head, but the noise that occurs when moving the volume knob up and down seemed to be more noticeable, though maybe it just evaded my attention until now.
afk.or.feedIf the song has a super quiet noise floor I can sometimes hear the knob, probably depends on the sensitivity of the iem/can your using. For improvements I find the stage slightly wider like litteraly maybe a centimeter farther out (very subtle) but also really improved imaging in that space. The rest all seems the same as the 1x dual. The minimum volume might also slightly be higher making some iems harder to get your sweet spot. The knob has good resistance and you can feather it to get there though. So far I'm happy and think the price of the upgrade is worth it, especially if your starting with no v5i to start. This all also using the 05bl pro in ldac (not sure if it makes much difference there).
rvcjewGlad to see we're all on the same page more or less. I'm using P1's and on high gain with nothing playing the volume knob sound is very noticeable. On low gain its very soft but you can still make it out. With anything playing at a decent volume, it's very easy to miss though. I do enjoy the feel of the knob though, good resistance like you said.
The 05bl Pro surprised me. It's my first LDAC device so I wasn't sure what I should expect going into it, but the fidelity of the sound is very well preserved. My next plan is to get my hands on the Shanling M0 (or one of the larger models) for the sole purpose of using it as a USB LDAC transmitter for my PC. A decently long USB cable should allow me to mount it somewhere closer to the center of my apartment, and then I should have good coverage around most of it.
Man, I've come a long way in a short few weeks. Just in October my entire setup was just a Sound Blaster E5 and my HD 598 Cs or HE4XX. Never dreamt I'd be using IEMs, much less rolling op amps and all this.
afk.or.feed@rvcjew@RyanPin
I just received the black XD-05 Plus which I ordered again from ShenzhenAudio. This gave me the rare opportunity to test two identical amps side by side, one with the dual Burson op amps, and the other with the single stock op amp, without spending 5 minutes in between switching them out. I still have to do some testing before I know if there's much more to add here, but interestingly, I've confirmed that the static/noise I was hearing when moving the volume knob was indeed a direct consequence of the Burson op amps. I moved the Burson op amps to the black model and replaced the stock op amp in the white model. Immediately the noise was reduced almost entirely on the white model. It sounds like someone sliding their finger down a sheet of paper from across the room now vs a crackling static in my ear. On the black model, the noise was present exactly as it was on the white model. This doesn't bother me too much, as I'll gladly take a boost in quality over reduced noise when changing the volume, but I do find it interesting that the op amp(s) affect(s) this as much as it does.
afk.or.feedCool test, why did you need a second one? Perhaps the Burson just is more sensitive to EMI perhaps. What I really want is some company to make a nice slim walled but sturdy leather case for the XD-05 plus like what the fiio, oppo get. No one even makes a silicone case for it. Not big enough market I guess.
rvcjewTo be honest, I just really wanted the black color. 😅 I'm selling my white one to a friend though so it's all good. A case for these would be awesome. I'd suggest requesting it on xDuoo's Facebook page, both on the page itself in comments or via message. My experience with them via Facebook has been positive and they are reasonably fast to respond and follow up on feedback.
@rvcjew@RyanPin Hearing these both side by side helped quite a bit in picking out the differences. I was able to get two media players (in windows) synced together, each outputting to one of the XD-05s, that way I could just jump from jack to jack and listen. In a technical sense, this confirmed our earlier observations about better separation/imaging and a wider sound stage, but beyond that, it just felt more lively and immersive. The Bursons sound noticeably less in-your-head than the stock op amps in a way that I don't think can be explained by just a wider sound stage. All in all, there's no denying that it's an upgrade in quality; that's only more obvious now. I'd love to do some more testing across some different genres of music, but unfortunately, I have to pack up my old XD-05 soon and get it shipped out. I don't think I'll have much more time before then to compare, but we'll see.
One thing I wasn't expecting is that the black XD-05 Plus came with newer firmware installed, and it wasn't quite compatible with the old drivers. I managed to find the firmware update + driver update (a single download contains both) on xDuoo's website and update the firmware on my white model. If you plan on doing this, DON'T install the new drivers yet. You must be on the old (4.13) drivers in order to update the firmware of the XD-05 Plus, and you should only uninstall and install the new drivers (4.67) AFTER updating the firmware. There's instructions for how to do so provided in the download as well. All in all, it's a very simple process, and after I had both devices on the same firmware, I was able to get both recognized properly in playback device settings and match up their bitrates and such for proper side by side testing.
afk.or.feedI did not know they dropped some newer FW thanks, I updated my Plus my non plus i'll do later as it's my backup.
EDIT: posted about the cases to Xduoo, did you get a black or blue knob after all?
rvcjewBlack. They told me they decided not to make the blue knob model after all after deciding it was "ugly" lol. There was a lot of confusion between the factory, their Facebook staff, and their vendors, but we finally got it figured out. ShenzhenAudio checked their stock for me too just to be sure before shipping it out to me.
afk.or.feedDid you ever find out if you could squeeze in the V5/V6 with an extender. I am thinking of trying it myself. The XD-05 looks like it would be hard, but there is a small space on the XD-05 Plus that looks like it might squeeze in right where you plug it in.
ttran946Sorry, I didn't. Still using the 2x V5i right now and I'm more than happy with the sound. Just opened mine up again to take a quick look but I wonder if it'd fit if you remounted the battery a bit, pushing it further away from the op amps. There's a cap right on the other side of the battery so it can't move far, but it looks like it could move a few mm. If you unsoldered the row of op amp connectors closest to the battery (you could no longer use 2x op amps), that'd open up even more room. Not experienced enough to know how op amps would respond to longer extensions, but another idea is putting it all the way on the other side of the board laying flat over the USBs/LEDs? There's a fair bit of clearance there. You'd have to run your own wires over there though, which technically isn't difficult. I'm just not sure how that'd affect the sound.
I was hoping to use burson pin extender to lay the V6 on its side right in the red boxed space. I need to do some measurements when my unit arrives to see if the extenders are long enough and if the V6 case will fit there.
ttran946Yeah that's the space I was talking about. Just saying if it's too narrow you may be able to push the battery down a few mm until it's pushing right up to that cap on the other end. Otherwise, there seems to be a fair bit of space right on top of the rear I/O
they don’t specifically fit flush in the spaces, as they bunch up on themselves. However, that doesn’t seem to effect the sound.
this may or may not be a product of it, but I do notice a scratchy/ almost oxidized sound when I adjust the volume. It’s only a small quibble, easily remedied by not changing the volume.
I hadn’t used my xd05 plus in a while, since I got my thx aaa 789, but I was doing some work in a back closet at work. I was able to put this in my back jeans pocket with the Bluetooth adapter and it still sounds so sooo good. I had my hd 6xx on, just so I could hear anyone if they came to ask any questions. Still a great product.