Xduoo XQ50 Pro Bluetooth 5.0 DAC Discussions | Drop

Xduoo XQ50 Pro Bluetooth 5.0 DAC

Showing 1 of 22 conversations about:

Apr 27, 2020

On the DAC discussion, I don't mean to take sides since both people made very good points. But, I would have been far more interested in this product if it had the ESS 9038 instead of the 9018. Why? I own the highly-regarded Oppo 105 disc player that uses the 9018 chip. It sounds very good. But, musically, it is a bit "analytical" or "lean". In Oppo's next model, they used the 9038 and all the "experts" said it was more musical, specifically because it's sound was somewhat "warmer" or "fuller". Can this be measured? I have no idea and I haven't heard the 205. But, I'm willing to accept Oppo's upgrade decision and the "collective opinions" of the critics that there was something better about the 9038 as compared with the 9018. XDUOO, by its inclusion of Bluetooth 5.0 that handles formats like Aptx-HD, obviously wants to be viewed as somewhere near the state-of-the-art. So, don't be too surprised if after the XQ50 sells out, if XDUOO launches a new model with a newer DAC chip.

ElectronicVices

2937

Apr 28, 2020

AverageFellaThe cost of full 9038 Pro chipset would make up the large majority of this devices cost. Why do you think this thing needs an 8-channel chip meant for hometheater and higher end balanced/mono/dual mono designs? The 9018 is more than capable for handling bluetooth quality decoding, none of which are lossless despite LDAC's very high bandwidth. Even a 9038Q2M would be disproportionate to this devices retail price.

(Edited)

Apr 28, 2020

ElectronicVicesElectronicVices: You may be right about the 9038 Pro being overkill for a product at this price and function. I was simply reinforcing TheRequiem's point that the Es9018, as good as it may be, is getting old. It was originally introduced by ESS in 2009! Hence, when I see a product advertising that they are using it, I always wonder why they haven't moved to something more current - perhaps even an ESS updated version of the 9018 (which would have a different model number or a suffix that indicated it was a newer version). BTW, although the price of a single chip may be pretty expensive, I have read that when a manufacturer buys 1000 or more, the price goes way, way down. For example, at one time, a batch of 1000 pieces of the 9018 went for $12 per piece. So, I shouldn't have pushed the 9038 specifically, I should simply have said that, despite its wonderful reputation, the 9018 seems like a chip that is already 10 years old.

(Edited)

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jaydunndiddit

3262

Apr 28, 2020

AverageFellaAnd the 6XX are how old and well renowned? (They're over 17 years old, btw 😁). Drop is working on the Panda, based off the Oppo planars, and those are how old now (over 6 years)? Same with a lot of vintage record players, tube amps, CD players, etc. Audio gear just doesn't age the same way as other tech, thankfully. These aren't graphics cards or TVs. My point is, this is audio, once we pass the point of gear having a high enough SINAD, low THD, etc., it's all a moot point as it's out of the realm of what's audible to our human ears. My question is, why do you want to pay MORE when there isn't any discernible improvement than knowing it has the latest chip in it? If it took them a decade to squeeze every ounce of the 9018 and it has the performance to back it up, while still being cost effective, is that not a win for you, the consumer? They could have easily dropped a new chip in this and charged double for a higher R&D and the "luxury tax" of using the latest tech, and they wouldn't be guaranteed to have any modicum of higher performance while still charging the consumer more money. Since I already have a unit like this, I can at least applaud Xduoo for not bandwagoning on the new, shiny thing and putting those costs off on the consumer. That's already rare enough in this hobby where people spends thousands of dollars for greatly diminished returns chasing the highest fidelity.

Apr 29, 2020

jaydunndidditNo strong disagreements, jaydunndiddit. I don't join these discussions just for a debate. I agree with you that in certain areas, "new" is not necessarily "better" (I still love my Magnepan 3.6s better than any newer speakers I've heard that I could possibly afford). However, my guess is that advances in the actual musicality of audio equipment is evolving much faster at the moment when it comes to dac technology than in the realms of speakers, headphones, turntables, power amps, etc. where the sound hasn't become "better" in ten years. If you feel that the 9018 is still the top chip in this price range for this function, I'm not expert enough to quarrel. Perhaps this is all a bit personal for me since I find the sound of my 9018-based disc player to be a bit "clinical" or "analytical".

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Jun 22, 2020

AverageFellaI think what makes the chipset in this moot is most audiophiles will be using the digital outputs rather than the analog ones so it'll bypass the built in DAC altogether. More casual users will use the analogs directly but they are also the group least likely to care about minor performance differences between the chipsets. So in the end it's just extra cost for not much gained.

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Rowdy2026

803

Jun 22, 2020

AverageFellaPerhaps you missed the details explaining it’s only $70? 🤷‍♂️

Jun 23, 2020

Rowdy2026Hi Rowdy. Point well-taken. And, as has been said in this thread, the final sound may be more dependent on factors other than the chip. Did you buy one?

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Jun 23, 2020

legaceezlegaceez: These forums are lots of fun and should never become too serious because much of what gets discussed about this kind of product is guesswork from the posting persons. I, for example, have no idea what a manufacturer has to do with a dac chip to make it sound the way they want. And I'm doubtful that 90% of the folks watching DROP daily have any idea either. But, I've read that, at one time, the 9018 went for $12 each in lots of 1000. How much is the 9038? I don't know. But had it added $20 to the XDUOO/DROP price of this product, I would have been really interested in buying one. Would it have made any difference in the sound? I have no idea. But, I would have been more interested in the product.

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Jun 24, 2020

AverageFellaI hear yah. It's always nice to have the nicest or latest version of something but you have to think about it from not only a pricing standpoint but a timing and demographic standpoint too.

If you delay your product waiting for the "next big thing" you will never get a product released.
Would a ~30% increase in price be OK for the people looking for a cheap solution that are bypassing the DAC anyways? They might lose out on way more buyers and only gain a small percentage of buyers such as yourself.
Since we don't really know the price difference it's not even safe to assume a $20 increase.
At the end of the day if you can't tell in a blind A/B test then it probably didn't matter anyways.

IMO don't get caught up in what people say or what measures best. What sounds best is what you have available to you...

(Edited)

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Jun 24, 2020

legaceezYou have my full agreement on that one. If we could somehow go and listen to each of these products we wouldn't care what chip was inside it or how it measured. So, we're left with reading the "trusted" reviews or buying with the hope that we can send it back for a refund if we don't like what we hear. But, just so I know, are you buying one of these or just joining the discussion?

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Jun 24, 2020

AverageFellaI'm just joining the discussion. My DAC actually has a BT receiver already so I'm good from that standpoint (Topping D70). But yea I hear what you're saying though. I mean you have to use reviews and measurements at some point to help make a decision but really keep in mind that hifi is so good nowadays that you can't really go wrong. Just go with what has the inputs/ouputs you need, has the features and power requirements you need, form factor, pricing, etc...honestly the "sound" of something is almost last on my list nowadays--at least when it comes to source components. As long as something doesn't have like scathing bad reviews, it's probably good enough for most needs.

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Jun 24, 2020

legaceezWell, we disagree here. For me, the most important parts of the audio chain are (1) the transducers, be they headphones or speakers, (2) the source components, be they dacs or cartridge/turntables, wireless configurations and, most important of all, the recording itself. Sure, the preamps, amps and cables can add or subtract if they're fabulous or awful. But for me, if they measure okay for their purpose, they play a lesser role. And, although I agree you can get decent sound for less money these days, there is no way that hifi is somehow instantly "better" than in the past. Yes, digital makes it easier to get okay sound. But, most of us are looking for something more than that. To be honest, even if a component only costs $72, I'm not going to live/listen comfortably with too much sibilance or no sparkle in the treble, no texture or depth in the mids and vocals, bass that isn't full and tuneful (etc.). In addition, I do want a decent soundstage and imaging with width and depth. So, if this $72 product doesn't give me those characteristics (along with reasonable frequency response and low distortion), I will be disappointed, even on a meager budget. Part of the problem is that there are so many new players in the game. Who of us had even heard of Xduoo five years ago? So, it's really hard for the bargain seeker to know what to buy (or even the person with lots of cash for that matter). Okay - I admit, I've been tough on this product. But, all I really did was agree with another person who stated that the ESS 9018, as good as it may be, is long in the tooth. It's possible that a more recent chip from ESS or someone else would make no audible difference. But, it would have gotten my attention and probably my purchase. Let's face it, this kind of mail-order buying is mostly guesswork. So, if other buyers are happy with a product having the right connectivity as the primary concern, I do understand.

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Jun 24, 2020

AverageFellaActually we are probably more in agreement than you think! I'm sorry I probably just didn't word my last reply properly. You are correct, like yourself, that I value a good speaker or pair of headphones over an expensive source, assuming the source hits my minimum requirements or needs of the output device. Beyond that minimum requirement it's just fluff and the return on investment quickly diminishes. I think that's the important distinction to make. I mean obviously I got a decently high end DAC in the D70 but I know it's not the best in class. In fact the D90 just came out and I'm in no rush to upgrade because the D70 already does what I need it to. Sure upgrading would be nice but then you will be in this never ending game of cat and mouse and never actually get to enjoy yourself. (Although for some people collecting gear is the fun in and of itself.) And even beyond the D90, I can spend hundreds and thousands more on DACs and AMPS with better chips or implementations but I'm not in that market. Or I could splurge on multiple devices with different sound signatures but at around the price range of the D70 and up, what sounds "better" is really subjective. Measurements almost don't matter anymore. Paying 1-3k more for "I feel like it has a wider sound stage" is in the realm of crazy to me. At that point it becomes less of a hobby and more of an obsession/game/way of life/bragging rights IMO. Edit: I probably got a little off topic but in respect to this product it self, xDuoo is one of many "chifi" companies that popped in within the last few years. They are one of the better ones along with "LKS" and such. Sure they are for the most part no names but they do have a track record of pretty good products. It's of course only fair to do as much research on them as you can but I think it's unfair to go "well it doesn't have the latest and greatest chipset" when it's name brand competitors don't either and especially not for the same prices.

(Edited)

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