INTRODUCING DCX PROFILE | this is the last...

Apr 6, 2022

How involved is matt3o in this as i trust him on his products but not on any spinoffs hes not involved with

(Edited)

Dakkadence

Apr 6, 2022

AhngelOn his blog in the comments, he was completely uninformed and uninvolved with the whole affair.

Jyri_Drop

453

Outreach

Apr 6, 2022

AhngelMT is a naming rule Drop uses, and MT2 is based on the designer of MT2 profile. Matt3o is a designer of MT3 profile. As you can see the MT2 is quite different profile vs MT3.

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Apr 6, 2022

Jyri_DropInteresting decision to use the mt3 naming as it was crowdsourced on deskthority for MaTt3o and not a drop standard. But drop gonna drop i guess.

(Edited)

Jyri_Drop

453

Outreach

Apr 6, 2022

AhngelAre you referring to original MT3? MT2 shape/concave is not related to MT3. EDIT: Clarity on MT2 not relating to MT3

(Edited)

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Apr 6, 2022

Jyri_DropHow are MT2 and MT3 unrelated given they use the same initials and naming convention? If you mean matt3o isn't involved in MT2, then it would have made more sense to not keep his naming convention as it wasn't a drop created name, MT3 = MaTt3o. MT2 is related to MT3 now given that naming, but in poor taste detracting from someones hard work just to blow it off like this and ignore how rude this is. This is one of the million reasons people shit on drop, if y'all could start treating your own collaborators as people instead of dollar signs and devaluing their contributions that would be a great first step. EDIT: Also if they are unrelated why are they pictured together in this post? Wouldn't it make more sense to compare to another cylindrical/cherry profile set?

(Edited)

Apr 6, 2022

Jyri_Drop @BlindAssassin111 's point is the original reason behind my initially salty comment on the announcement post, and the questions I later asked about MT2. The association with matt3o is very hard not to make given the MT3 profile was a.) named by him and b.) named after him. I think where the negative reactions are coming from is that naming and marketing the product this way appears to have the goal of positive association with MT3 (and its designer) but also having no actual thing at all to do with them - aside from seeking to meet a comparable quality standard, which I really wouldn't call a point of relation. Something I see happen pretty regularly - at least this is how I see it: The folks at Drop have really good product ideas and tend to make really good products happen - but the communication about those products is sometimes unhelpful or even counter-productive to the community understanding what they are / what they're about. I think MT2 here is no exception: by all indications it looks to be a well-designed profile with a very high target standard of quality, and I'd frankly be surprised if the final product doesn't come out great. The avoidable problem this time around is making the connection to an un-involved individual - if this profile had been called something else and *only* referenced MT3's quality standards as a benchmark, I think the response would be almost completely positive with a sprinkling of "meh" from folks already happy with the current selection of Cherry-like profiles. As-is, there are at least a handful of folks feeling the product line is tainted by the name and its unbreakable association with the designer of MT3. Put more simply, the dissonance of name-dropping matt3o without involving matt3o. I'm quite certain there is zero ill-will behind the naming and marketing decisions here, and I think I've said before my main goal interacting here is to foster an on-the-level, productive relationship between Drop's customers and its team. I think Drop is at its best when collaborating with creatives like matt3o, MiTo, FU11.META1, etc. - and at its weakest when it leans on elements of sequelitis - something I really don't think it ever needs to do to sell a boatload of keycaps and headphones. I'm probably somewhere between a welcome presence with my descriptive positive product reviews and a thorn-in-side with the pretty consistent harping I do on points like this one - but if Drop would find it helpful, I'd be more than happy to lend any assistance I can to improving these initial communication efforts. Same with product descriptions - every one I've seen is well written, but many fall short of actually describing the positive or outstanding qualities of a given niche product, and some are simply inaccurate. At least when it comes to the realm of keyboards, describing products and components in plain English but with lots of detail is something I have a good four years' experience with at this point, and I would happily put time into improving things like that on the site where there's room for it.

A community member

Apr 6, 2022

BlindAssassin111Agreed, this "MT" naming seems designed to confuse people about his involvement. It's a super sketchy way to name and launch a new, competing product. Please reconsider the naming convention.

(Edited)

BeerandMonsters

Apr 7, 2022

BlindAssassin111I agree. The optics on this are incredibly bad. That's two poorly thought out naming decisions within as many months. First, there was the use of the Holy Panda branding for a switch that has very little in common with the original Holy Pandas. Now, this. It seems as if Drop's marketing department only care about the short term cachet they can get from a name with little regard in the long term negative effects it will have on their relationship with the keyboard community. To learn that MaTt3O wasn't even notified this was coming really gets my dander up. Seriously, read that advertising copy. They barely acknowledge the man.

Apr 7, 2022

DeadeyeDaveI couldn't have put it better

Apr 7, 2022

AhngelI'm not involved at all... and I knew this would have created confusion. I just knew about MT2 yesterday. https://matt3o.com/what-the-hell-is-mt2/

A community member

Apr 7, 2022

BeerandMonstersThey could avoid all of this drama by just calling it "DR0" profile, as in "DR0P." Then any new profiles in the future could be DR1, DR2, etc. No one would mistakenly think Matt3o was involved.

Apr 7, 2022

matt3oOh i know 🤣 i wanted to make the point that you are the reason for mt3s success with your involvement and hard stance on qc. I have zero faith in this and advise others to be weary

(Edited)

Apr 7, 2022

all you do is bash on this platform, i don't think i saw one positive comment on your profile... that being said, how is this a competing product? your logic is so skewed it's borderline insanity. Drop produced, manufactured, and fronted the entire bill for MT3 (and still does) with some slight input from another whiny designer in the community and is now doing the same to bring a new product (which i hope is as good as GMK, dont get me started on that disaster) and you say its a "competing product" haha.. dont get me wrong, Drop has done some negatively impacting things in the community, but so has almost 99% of all other brands no matter who you look at, yet people have no problem buying shitty knockoff clones and bending over for "involved designers" who barely lift a finger. and if you think money isn't the motivator for literally everyone producing in this industry, you need to get off your flying unicorn and come back down to current day production earth

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Apr 7, 2022

Ahngelthis, this right here is also a laughable comment. hard stance on qc?! hahah please enlighten us on how a designer helped with a manufacturing plant's qc process @matt3o what was your actual involvement in MT3? other than the naming and a general idea of a "new keycap"? only thing i remember seeing from you was a 3D printed set back in the day, and based on the quality of that 3D print and the tech back then, it came from a place with more tooling than you had - even though you claimed to have made the 3D models, I'm very confused as to how much a designer of renders had to do with actual production/manufacturing/QC etc

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Apr 7, 2022

dfitzwellI followed production top to bottom. The IP of the profile is mine, not Drop's. That being said without Drop it would never have happened.

(Edited)

Apr 7, 2022

matt3oexactly my point, you "followed" and had a general idea of a new keycap set. did you model the profile, produce the examples, and "QC" any version of the steps between? the IP? that would be the same argument of GMK designer taking the og cherry profile, among many other brands. Sure, if you designed, modeled, found manufacturing/became a manufacturer, shelled out $ behind production, etc then that would be a different issue. But you helped design a rough idea of a profile and are now whining that Drop is stealing your IP? With a completely different product and none of us know the entire story. Again, Drop hasn't done some of the greatest things, but I'm just so tired of seeing pure, unadulterated bitching and whining in this community from the most minute things that haven't even had a complete story behind them. Just a bunch of band-wagoners with no real information covering the asses of another whiny designer that's making money every time their product sells with zero monetary involvement or responsibility.

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Apr 7, 2022

matt3oand to add to the salt, I saw you now are ready to design a keycap set for this new profile lol standing very hard on your IP ground until you get a chance at another check i see? a little off kilter for "Drop not telling you shit", if i were Drop i wouldn't want to pay you a dime for consistently bashing the brand that brought you any light into the community - after reading through all of your old blogs it seems like you've been a negative thorn the entirety of your involvement

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Apr 7, 2022

dfitzwellLOL, oh okay sorry, I thought you wanted to have a conversation. let me just reiterate on the fact that I'm fine with MT2, so fine that I'm going to design a set for it. I'm not sure where you got all that anger.

Apr 7, 2022

matt3othe anger comes from long time lurking and seeing the same recycled garbage time and time again LOL i did want to have a conversation, i asked you multiple questions and you didnt answer. you're "fine" with MT2 but your comments and even updates are nothing but negative

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Apr 7, 2022

dfitzwellThe history of MT3 is very well documented if you want to find it. As any big project there are multiple responsibilities and multiple people working on it. I had the idea and asked if Drop was interested, worked on the design and shape of every key, followed the project including QC, made multiple iterations until we reached the final result. Have you read my last blog post? there's nothing negative. I just would have liked a heads up. Was Drop required to give it? Of course not. I just want it to be clear that I have no involvement in MT2 because I received multiple messages asking what was that about, and I have no clue.

(Edited)

Apr 7, 2022

matt3oI did read it, it was very neutral, so much so to a point of seemingly trying to continue relations.. And then i also read the comments of you "LOL"ing at a Fedex stolen idea video and agreeing that it's weird and also agreeing with and feeding into Drop not answering questions about "riding on your name" aka their own money My biggest point being, that all this bullshit already came from a very short intro into a new product and not the entire story of even what it is!

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Apr 7, 2022

dfitzwellI believe you are misinterpreting the relationship I have with Drop. They are Corporate, I am Creative. We are never going to agree but we can always find a common ground and do great things together. I worked with Drop for almost day one, what is it? 8 years now? They don't have employees that worked for them that long. I feel that with that kind of history they could have mentioned MT2, but I talked with Yanbo yesterday and all is fine between us. Still I can agree when people say that it's "weird".

A community member

Apr 7, 2022

matt3oYou being okay with it is all that matters to me. Was it weird? Yeah. But whatever; I'm looking forward to what you design for it.

Apr 7, 2022

matt3oi dont think i am, i definitely understand that and that part is ok. the point you aren't getting is that you are inducing the bashing and at points welcoming it for your own PR, what would you do if Drop was sitting here bashing you? I think its completely fair to say its weird and feel off put from a slight lack of communication, but you're just feeding into it with your own posts and agreement with other people bashing as well. 8 years and you immediately go to public negative posting on your own channels, without reaching out for a conversation first? doesnt seem like a relationship id want to have with you lol

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Jyri_Drop

453

Outreach

Apr 7, 2022

BlindAssassin111Appreciate the fact that the community is passionate and sharing their views. We arrived at the MT2 naming for a variety of different reasons: We consider this to be a continuation in the MT3 line as it shares many physical properties with it: the tooling technology is similar (with improvements), the doubleshot machines being used are identical (same factory) and the base ABS resin feedstock that we use is the same. From this perspective, these new keycaps share many Drop-proprietary innovations that are used in MT3 doubleshot keycaps albeit with a drastically different shape/profile. As others have alluded to, the change from "3" to "2" does refer to the height of the profile, with plans for an eventual low/flat profile MT1 doubleshot keycap set in the distant future. Lastly, the MT moniker is also being used to recognize the contributions of MiTo, who has been involved in the development and design of MT2 as a keycap profile and product platform for other creators to design with.

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Apr 7, 2022

dfitzwell? Its well documented what he did. Laughable reply indeed

fruitykeeb

Apr 7, 2022

Jyri_Droptoday on: how to lose the respect of the enthusiast community. drop isn't completely useless; they can be used as a bad example.

Apr 7, 2022

Jyri_DropThis response goes against what you said earlier then, MT2 and MT3 are in fact related. The reasons you listed are basically explaining it is injection molded abs in the same factory, which doesn't really mean anything honestly. "Proprietary innovations" in injection molding I honestly doubt, doubleshot abs keycaps are nothing new (cherry was doing it many decades ago) and it wouldn't be patentably different than technology used by almost every factory that knows how to do multishot injection. Hell JTK and Domikey have tripleshot, which is more innovative than doubleshot. This is just marketing trying to come up with a reason that uses many words that ultimately mean nothing in the end, especially after saying they had nothing to do with each other in your last statement. MT used to have a meaning behind it and now it means MiTo? I guess y'all are fine watering down monikers to fit whatever comes to mind around the next corner. Odd but wouldn't be the first company to decide confusing monikers is a better idea that creating concrete ones with meaning that wouldn't be lost on consumers. I assume the next meaning will be FU11.META1? I honestly think it would have been way smarter to do DR1/DP1 or DR2/DP2 to connect with your company name rather than trying to connect with someones unrelated username. You do you. EDIT: Wanted to also mention that now because MT means MiTo for MT2, that will also create the misunderstanding that MT3 was created by MiTo for those new to the hobby who weren't around for the history of the MT3 profile and its development and meaning.

(Edited)

Apr 7, 2022

Ahngelits really not, if you actually go and read the documented journey of how MT3 was created you'll see nothing but "we" and "our" vocabulary hinting at him not doing the actual work for this and the only thing Matt3o shows is him recieving 3D models from someone and prototypes from the manufacturer. No documentation of actual tooling creation, modeling, etc, only input of an idea from a designer, no execution. @matt3o did you actually create/design the tooling, profiling of the keycaps themselves, or just give oversight and all the work was done by other people being paid/actually executing real ideas? Would love some insights as this entire thing seems blown out of proportion for the "design" of something that isn't even tied to the argument..

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Woovie

Apr 7, 2022

dfitzwell>all you do is bash on this platform, i don't think i saw one positive comment on your profile... Stop using an alt and reply on your main.

(Edited)

Ahngelhttps://matt3o.com/what-the-hell-is-mt2/

Apr 7, 2022

Wooviethis is my main, like i mentioned before im a long time lurker seeing the same garbage regurgitated over and over and am just finally tired of it I guess i try to stay out of this stuff but this one is a little ridiculous even for me, literally made an account to comment this time looks like we won't be getting any real information, only poor "victim" bs

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Dave-Alvarado

Apr 7, 2022

Rawdilz

296

Apr 7, 2022

I really like that idea.

Apr 7, 2022

Jyri_DropIt's definitely up to Drop what Drop names its products - and ultimately the products and their quality will stand for themselves like the rest of Drop's catalog - though I will say I still believe the "MT" naming can only hurt this product's image with the more enthusiastic members of the community. The generative context of that name isn't going anywhere. Drawing an association to MiTo (another of my very favorite keeb creatives) with this particular name is... well. I think it only complicates things needlessly and just further muddies these waters. ("MiT2" might be a completely different story...) I really liked someone else's idea of naming Drop-designed profiles "DR#" or "DRO#". That would give the same kind of direct association with Drop that MT3 has with matt3o. Just a thought. In my humble opinion, none of these mentioned links are good reasons to use the name in context - though one piece of that context is still missing for me, so I'll try one more time asking this question: Was a possible association with matt3o ever discussed while choosing the name? If so, what did that discussion cover?

Rawdilz

296

Apr 7, 2022

dfitzwellHow is this your main account and you’re a “long” time lurker? The account is from 2022. I call BS. Why would you lie about that?

Apr 7, 2022

Rawdilzwhat? i cant lurk communities without having a profile? im not specifically talking about only on here can easily lurk on discord servers, reddit, geekhack, keebtalk etc this isnt a new situation whatsoever, this is one of the most dramatic communities that has ever existed, i think everyone knows that

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jm090

281

Apr 8, 2022

matt3oDidnt you design the whitefox? I still have my launch one.

kukkurovaca

323

Apr 8, 2022

Jyri_DropUhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh do you really think people don't remember that MT3 refers to Matt3o? What on earth.

Apr 8, 2022

jm090I did

Apr 8, 2022

Jyri_Dropthis is the last straw of corporate bullshit I can take. And it's sad that some fall for it... Congratulation @Jyri_Drop you managed to get rid of me. I'm leaving. Ciao

NoPunIn10Did

Apr 8, 2022

matt3oYou should contact a lawyer. If you still own the IP on MT3, this has “trademark violation” written all over it.

Flammulina

Apr 8, 2022

Jyri_DropLet me guess. MiTo also doesn't even know about MT1 and MT for MT1 stands for yet another designer.

smartedpanda

Apr 8, 2022

NoPunIn10DidBelieve you give up IP rights when selling on drop for any/all designs.

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kukkurovaca

323

Apr 8, 2022

Jyri_DropSo now you guys have fully alienated the person responsible for one of the company's few interesting contributions to mechanical keyboards. Oof. This is wild because it's so avoidable? Seems like all you would have needed to do was reach out to Matt3o...at all...prior to announcing? Or, and I know this is a wild idea, PICK A DIFFERENT NAME? If you want to make it about MiTo, you could have just called the profile MI2. (That's actually way better, you really should have called it that.)

Apr 8, 2022

dfitzwellFor a "lurker" you seem to "know" everything. 100% an alt.

Woovie

Apr 8, 2022

dfitzwellwho asked MiTo

Woovie

Apr 8, 2022

dfitzwelland did you create the sun or arabic alphabet? no you steal from others too clown

Apr 8, 2022

Apr 8, 2022

BlindAssassin111its all public knowledge and im purely referencing what matt3o has documented in his blog?? im a lurker on drop, meaning i dont have a profile besides this one, idk what is hard to understand about that

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Apr 8, 2022

Wooviethats a good question, maybe drop will answer

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Apr 8, 2022

Woovieand wut? you are just advocating for the exact point im making, MT3 is also just a copy of something else so why is this entire thing any different or blown out of proportion

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kleintrpt

Apr 8, 2022

Jyri_Drop @MiTo are you aware of MT2 being named after yourself instead of @matt3o? Hmmmmm

A community member

Apr 8, 2022

that being said, how is this a competing product?

-Well, it's still sculpted cylindrical mid-profile keycap which has, well, quite a bunch ofsome alternatives: GMK, CRP, MW, XMI -- to name a few. There are also plenty of others I don't care to remember, so yeah, it is competing product.

but so has almost 99% of all other brands

-99% statistical proofs would be nice. Otherwise it's word against word.

and if you think money isn't the motivator for literally everyone producing in this industry

-Proofs would be nice again.

Apr 8, 2022

dfitzwellYo in case you hadn't noticed matt3o himself has barely said anything about this, and all of it has been completely professional. No one said anything about him being on top of the world or in a position of power. It's the customers that are pissed. With how frequently you're replying and how little you appear to know about all this I'm assuming you are a troll - but for the benefit of other readers I'm going to join the club in shooting you down.

No brown on the Retro set was counter to matt3o's wishes - that was Drop's idea, not his. If you're such a lurker you'd be well aware of that.

Retro is not just about the C-64. Go back and read the forums if you want to know what other specific devices inspired the burgundy and green keys - there are photos and links right here on Drop.

matt3o can likely secure any partnership he's inclined to - nobody needs Drop.

A user here suggested lawyers, not matt3o.

He completely designed MT3 and has the proof. Yes, it's inspired by old IBM terminal keyboards. No, they are not copies or scans, and yes, the tooling took a solid year to develop.

You literally have no idea about any of this including what he's paid, you need to check yourself, you done wrecked yourself.

The actual community is where this reaction is coming from, not matt3o. They noticed a good 12 hours before he'd even mentioned it. Shouldn't you know that, mister lurker?

MiTo

13955

MiTo

Apr 8, 2022

kleintrptYes I am aware since my nickname is MiTo and contributed to the mid height (2 < 3) doubleshot line made by Drop. MT3’s acronym is a nod to Matt3o’s name and participation. MT2 is a nod to my name, my participation and MT3 itself. As an enthusiast my focus is on quality of the keys for people to enjoy and design their art on, it is cool that the names are matching like MT3, MT2 and hopefully eventually MT1 or xx1 like they said but these acronyms are irrelevant to me. I invite Matt3o and anyone else to give it a chance and take a crack on design, as this is a work of love for the community to build on.

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Flammulina

Apr 9, 2022

Jyri_DropJust imagine all this could have been avoided if the Drop team decided to talk to Matt3o about this , and then published the announcement with words from both Mitt3o and MiTo.

Apr 9, 2022

-the competitive reference wasn't towards GMK, CRP, MW,XMI, etc.. the person i replied to was saying that MT2 was a direct competition against MT3 when drop produces both which makes zero sense -obviously sarcasm, you cant deny there hasnt been a lot of ill will and dramatics in the community -you need proof as to why companies, factories, designers, engineers etc exist? im sure you have a job as well

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Jemm

Apr 9, 2022

dfitzwellDidnt know drop employees were allowing to use burners lmao

Apr 9, 2022

DeadeyeDavemy response to him being on top of a position of power directly relates to "influencers" in this space and the herd (including you) that follows blindly behind them. i am not a troll, i might have got heated a bit but its out of passion and tiresome of seeing same things happen over and over, from all sides of this industry. -sure a full brown set, but that wasnt the argued point, it was a similar color profile of GMK retro same green and everything so obviously it was rooted before the MT3 run. Also matteos first post of retro was in direct relations to the C64 -i guess we will see, not many companies want to work with someone that consistently bashes (proof in all of his blog posts and where i saw my information) almost 0 good things to say about the partnership that took him off the ground -i know that i forgot to tag said user -how do you know he has the proof? ive asked many times with no response and none of its documented in his announcmentes of mt3 as i said before - i gaurantee you he did not engineer the profiling or come up with necessary details to manufactur said product, i work in product engineering and know how this kind of things work -you are right on this point, but i cant imagine he paid much at all compared to his partnership and the royalties he gained off it -and matt3o posted immediately a bad thing, thats not a good situation to start. and again pushing my point above even harder, the community follows like a blind heard with no actual story or information following the "good guy designer" sitting back collecting money and getting mad about it do you expect drop to pay him more money on a new product that seems nothing to do with himself? but rather a product convention that they seemed to have pay for entirely and grow, whether that made them or lost them money - in this theory every cherry profile keycap out there should be paying royalties to the family of Walter Cherry since he founded the cherry profile - or wait should it be to the designer that was paid to create the profile??

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Apr 9, 2022

Jemmyou can think whatever you'd like, but i do not work at drop just a collector and lover of keyboards thats tired of not seeing full stories shed to light, whether im completely wrong or right it doesnt matter - ive called both parties out in my responses and drop has done some shady things before but so have the opposite side "creators" but nothing ever gets asked of them

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Apr 9, 2022

Jyri_Drophttps://drop.com/talk/106596/introducing-mt2-profile/2882417 I see y'all are starting to censor upvoted comments. What are y'all trying to hide?

Apr 9, 2022

dfitzwell>do you expect drop to pay him more money on a new product that seems nothing to do with himself? No. I said what I expected, and made no mention of anything like that. Never mentioned money. I just expect courtesy and transparency. The problems are coming from Drop dodging questions, not from matt3o getting upset. I'm not following matt3o, and would feel the way I do regardless of what he thinks - though I think I happen to agree with him on a point or two. My opinion on the subject was not informed by matt3o's, but by my own observations and priorities - and I'd say the same goes for the rest of these folks. Just because one person suggested legal whatnot doesn't mean anyone else or your imaginary herd feels that way.

SmolBrotato