Advice Needed: HD 58x or HE4xx? | As someone that...

Advice Needed: HD 58x or HE4xx?

Showing 1 of 13 conversations about:

Megazine

544

Nov 19, 2018

I own both. At first the 58X were my favorite cans that I own; the bass and vocals just sound very good. Vocals do sound slightly airy, but that's not a problem. After months of owning them, I now prefer my 4XX over all my cans. They are just so comfortable, and the soundstage is incredible, because you don't lose a lot of detail. It's such a soothing sound signature. The bass is there on the 4XX, but not like the 58X. One word of advice, to get the full potential of the 4XX you'll need an amp. The 58X are much easier to drive, but they do scale well. It's hard to recommend one over the other because they each sound so different. @Volly offered great advice and I agree with him, but I understand you can only choose one.

Volly

328

Nov 19, 2018

MegazineWhich one you like more for EDM megazine?

Vote

Nov 19, 2018

VollyThat's a tough one. I would say the 58X may have a touch more bass but it's more mid-bass where the 4XX has more sub-bass and extends further. The 58X is rolled in the lows like the 6XX. As long as you have a powerful enough amp, the 4XX are superior to me. If you're running from more humble devices, you'll be able to get more performance and enjoyment out of the 58X.

Nov 19, 2018

jaydunndidditThe general consensus of the thread and even the frequency response curves was that the 58x had better bass extension and more sub-bass but due to the subjective nature of headphone reviews, I think it would be best to demo the both.

Nov 19, 2018

Silent85As someone that owns both, the 4XX have better extension and impact over the 58X. The FR graphs show this. There are overlays of the 58X/6XX/660S and they all look very similar with a few variances and dips here and there of about 1-3 dB. That's not a huge amount. The thing is, the 58X looks almost identical to the 6XX in the low end but raised by a couple of dB. So, if we're to say the 58X is bassy, then the same should apply to the 6XX which we know isn't the case: https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-s-se/hd58x-jubilee-massdrop/. Looking at the graphs for the 4XX, they extend to 30 hz and are flat through the lowend. I really don't know how it can get much better than that unless you're looking for warmth and a mid bass hump. The 4XX sound tighter and have more impact: www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/massdrop-x-hifiman-he4xx-measurements-and-impressions.4815. We also haven't factored in their distortion characteristics and CSDs that are going to play a part in the low end as well. Also, throw in the voltage swings Sennheisers experience in general in the lows and you have a scenario that isn't as ideal as others are insenuating. The 4XX is about on par with distortion but has a flat impedance curve typical of a planar. I've also listened to these both balanced out of an iFi Pro iCAN and when being properly amped, back to back, the 4XX has the better low end over the 58X.

Nov 19, 2018

jaydunndidditThe thing is, the official response curve on the HE4xx own Massdrop product page show a steep roll-off in sub-bass from 40Hz.

You just don't see that on the HD 58x's curve (solid line):

I'm pretty sure superbestaudiofriends.org and diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com, as reputable as they are, uses their own separate equipment and measurement procedures to generate response curves so I won't use both sites to compare two different headphones.

Vote

Nov 19, 2018

Silent85You're not factoring in the smoothing Jude does. That's why they look the way they do and why their bass is as I'm describing. Also, there are not any "official" measurements. They're all being done by a 3rd party (in this case, Jude from HeadFi). Even for the 4XX, the impedance that is shown on Massdrop is incorrect according to what it is in the real world. This has been confirmed across many rigs at this point. As much as I enjoy MD, some things need to be taken with a grain fo salt especially when you don't have the raw measurements, CSDs, or distortion plots. Without that, you're not painting an entire picture which is all I'm talking about here. Hell, the Elex have better bass than the 58X although they have less quantity overall. You wouldn't be able to tell that from their graphs but they are very well extended for an open-back. My point is, FR graphs and other measurements will only tell so much prior to hooking them up to an amp and listening to them. And when pushed properly, the 4XX have better bass, hands-down. Not that the 58X is bad per se, just in this comparison isn't any better than the 4XX. Have you heard either by chance? I'd love to know your thoughts on them as well.

Vote

Nov 19, 2018

Silent85If you want all the information, then look at the thread behind the 58X: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/massdrop-x-sennheiser-hd-58x-jubilee-review-measurements.867972/. There are raw and additional measurements here. Now, compare the RAW from the 58X to the 4XX and you will get a better picture of what I'm describing: https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/MassdropHiFiMANHE4XX.pdf. As I stated, even on SBAF, they have overlays of the 58X with other Senns: www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/massdrop-hd58x-revised-review-and-measurements.6530. And as I stated, they are so close to the 6XX that it's not even funny. So, unless we can now categorize the 6XX as "bassy" then I find it very hard to give that consideration to the 58X. Hell, the 6XX sounds "bassy" to the HD 600 but that still doesn't mean it has the best bast extension, impact, or texture which is what we're discussing here. Honestly, it isn't what's "best" but whether the music you listen to sounds better with more extended, linear bass or a mid-bass hump. I prefer the 4XX due to texture and impact but others may enjoy the warmer 58X. For EDM, that impact makes the music more dynamic and fun hence why I gave the edge to the 4XX.

Megazine

544

Nov 19, 2018

jaydunndidditWow, that first link was very informative for my 58X. So it seems, what I’m experiencing is an illusion!? As the charts states, the 4XX seems to have the overall superior bass. But for my ears, I guess I prefer the 58X. Maybe it’s the stronger vibration or the more bass impact, that leads me to choose my 58X over 4XX when it comes to hip-hop and EDM. I’ll have to revisit the 4XX again. Right now the 4XX sound incredible for Macy Gray’s Album Stripped. Check out song Annabelle. https://youtu.be/RXGj7-JvYq0

Nov 19, 2018

MegazineIt's that mid bass. It's pretty common for most consumer headphones (ie Sony or Beats) as it gives the illusion of "boom."The 4XX bass is tighter and not as boomy. But, play a song like Three Ralphs with tons of sub-bass and you will understand what I mean. The experience is very different and will boil down to what music you listen to and preference. I've kinda moved away from cans that have a mid-bass hump or too much warmth in that region as it can make things sound wooly and cloudy (hi there, Sennheiser "veil"). I tend to lean towards tight, fast bass with good extension and decay these days (Focal, planars, etc.). I was having a hard time finding the 30/300 square wave for the 58X but these also tell a story on how a headphone will handle said signal and if it breaks up at all. Same with impulse and other measurements. Sadly, FR is not the only indicator of the low-end but most folks nowadays don't take the time to measure to the extent of Tyll (R.I.P.). https://youtu.be/v_Cbfmm-2oE

JonnyModena

225

Nov 21, 2018

MegazineJaydunndiddit is steering you in the right direction. He is also correct when saying the Hifiman cans crave power. They truly shine when they get the current they are asking for. As for the sound comparison between these, or any two sets of headphones... Look, I measure my expectations off of science. I measure my inclination to make a purchase off of experience with the product. Graphs and specs are a great thing. They show us in detail what we are getting for the product we are purchasing. But personal preference will ALWAYS trump a graph. There is never a case in which you should use another person's opinion, a graph, or any other metric as a replacement for listening to a pair of cans for yourself. The difficult part, for some people at least, is getting to a retail location or finding peers with the products there for you to hear in the first place. Sometimes, it really is worth that long drive to your closest audio shop. Your ears and your wallet will thank you for years to come.

Nov 21, 2018

JonnyModenaExcellent points throughout. I thought when in came to comparing the low end frequencies of these two headphones, one had to be objectively better. Obviously, that's not the case and it's best hear them both before deciding on which to purchase.

Volly

328

Nov 21, 2018

JonnyModenaWell said! :)

EnthonyClark

Feb 11, 2019

Silent85Actually those graphs both show about a 5db decrease from 100 to 20....hxx goes from 93 to 87 and 58x goes from 95 to 90...gotta look a little closer at the graph ranges and scale.

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