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GunsOfBrixton
911
Nov 19, 2018
Can you say a bit more about your use case? I have no intent to be patronizing, but it sounds like you're making an initial leap from the headphone world, where you have expertise. Speakers introduce so many more design factors that It’s hard to make a decent recommendation for speakers on their own. Can you say more about room size, room materials, seating position and distance, movies/music/games, ability to apply acoustic treatments, are the speakers for show or should they vanish, etc? Are you replacing or starting new? Given your budget for a pair of bookshelves, you’re clearly not kidding around. It’s way easier to waste a grand on speakers than it is on headphones. Especially with bookshelf speakers. Unless you're working with a good acoustic space, they don't scale with price nearly as much as headphones do.  
jaydunndiddit
3262
Nov 19, 2018
GunsOfBrixtonPersonally, I have never quite understood why folks like bookshelf speakers so much for a 2ch setup. I could be spoiled/biased but even the smaller floor standing speaker with larger woofers should do a much better job since a sub is not being used with said bookshelf speakers. I run some Polk Series II Monitor 70's and Infinity PS 212 in 2.1 ch via my Yamaha A3080 and I don't want much more. I'm sure clarity could go up with a much more expensive set but considering what I paid for these and how much power they can handle, I'd have to spend an arm and a leg to get to where I really want. And as much as I love the Focal loudspeakers, there is no way I can afford them, haha. I was fortunate to hear them at a local shop and was blown away and then saw the price tag and I sobered up almost immediately.
rdodev
632
Nov 19, 2018
GunsOfBrixtonPerhaps the astronomical price of premium speakers have me dizzy, but thought $1,000 on a pair of speakers doesn't seem that much, perhaps even modest? I don't intend to show them off, they'll be in my studio/home office (12' wide by 20'' long). Good ol' fashion drywall. The idea is to plug my digital and analog sources to a receiver/amp and enjoy the music (which is quite eclectic). But also enough juice I could bring them downstairs in the very rare occasions when we have guests over and fill the living room with high quality audio.
rdodevIn the grand scheme of things $1000 for a pair of speakers isn't much (especially if we are talking list price and not final sales price). My towers were $1600 + shipping regular price, caught them on clearance for $800 with free shipping. Generally speaking the performance jumps are noticeable to me at the <$500, $500, $1000, $2500 and $5000 price points. After $5K a pair you are chasing that last bit of performance for many many times the price.
GunsOfBrixton
911
Nov 19, 2018
rdodevCool, you have a good size room to work with, so you'll want to go relatively large in the category. Hopefully you're able to go the long way in the room - that will help lower some of the bass muddiness, which will kind of suck if you go the short way. But be aware that painted drywall is a pretty resonant surface, so you're likely to get quite a bit of reflection and echo, which is going to impact whatever speakers you get. It's also worth noting that even the best bookshelf speakers struggle to get down to the mid-40hz range, so punchy bass will be relative. Based on what you've mentioned, here are a couple of recommendations on speakers I've heard. If you want to go full budget right from the start, the SVS Ultra hits your budget on the nose. Simply put, I've never heard anything better in the bookshelf class - even much more expensive ones. They do require a good amp, though, so just be aware of what you're committing to, especially as it relates to moving between rooms. Some of the best bass I've heard in the class comes from Klipsch Sixes. They are powered speakers, so are easy to drive and very flexible, and would excel in the "entertain the guests" scenario. The stack you can build around them is obviously more limited, though. Finally, if you want to experiment, without committing big bucks, the ELAC B6 would be a solid entry point. I haven't heard those, but they've been on just about every "best of" list of bookshelf speakers ever written. But the best thing I can say is to experiment with placement, angles, and whatever else you can do to work the acoustics of your room, and be sure to budget for an acoustic design you can live with. Not addressing room acoustics is an audio sin with speakers that doesn't really have a parallel with headphones (maybe like buying open-backs for the subway), and is by far the biggest bang for your buck after speakers themselves.
GunsOfBrixton
911
Nov 19, 2018
ElectronicVicesI think you're spot on if you're talking about big speakers. And maybe I'm just too cheap :). But bookshelf speakers seem to hit real physics based barriers much earlier on the price curve in my experience, and I think they just don't scale the same way as their bigger kin.
rdodev
632
Nov 20, 2018
GunsOfBrixtonSo something like this would provide better bang for the buck as opposed to bookshelf form factor? https://www.chanemusiccinema.com/A5.4
GunsOfBrixton
911
Nov 20, 2018
rdodevI'm not familiar with Chane speakers, and I try not to give BS recommendations when I don't know what I'm talking about :). All I can say with any confidence is that they don't seem to dig any deeper on the bass, but they do look easier to drive. Generally speaking though, you are correct that floorstanders are higher potential speakers, and given the technology on these I would bet on them being pretty crisp. I think you might have more to build on with these, if reviews look good elsewhere. My first instinct would be to look into dispersion/soundstage. That tweeter looks like it will either have a limited sweet spot, or great sound stage in the right room and set up.
rdodevChane is a really respectable ID (Internet Direct) brand. I don't have first hand experience with this generation but friends picked up Gen1 (when they were called Arx) and Gen 2 designs (bookshelves and LCR) and were quite satisfied. He replaced them with KEF Q series but still uses the bookshelves as surround speakers. A bookshelf will not play as low as a tower speaker, if you are wanting to avoid a sub initially tower speakers are the way to go IMO. Edit: Wanted to add that my towers are essentially flat to just below 40 hz and I still use a sub. Unless we re talking about something like the infnity IRS-5 most speakers are not true full range.
rdodev
632
Nov 20, 2018
ElectronicVicesInterestingly enough the Q150 are ~$549 for the pair right now. That is very tempting.
jaydunndiddit
3262
Nov 20, 2018
rdodevI don't think these were mentioned but I also liked these for their form factor and sound (although I would still add a sub): https://www.klipsch.com/products/r-15pm-powered-monitors. If you didn't need powered, and wanted larger towers that sound good and don't break the bank, I like a lot of the reference line from Klipsch: https://www.klipsch.com/floor-speakers and Polk LSiM: https://www.polkaudio.com/collections/home-audio/lsim-series. I personally really enjoy the looks of both as well which I find is lacking in a lot of other brands. The Klipsch are also easy to drive compared to the Polk's but I feel they have the better low-end response overall if you're not planning to use a sub. They can go low but you'll need dedicated amps to push them as such.
jaydunndidditAgree on the Polk LSi series, never been a fan of klipsch horns... they can be rather polarizing.
rdodevThe KEF LS50's have also been on sale recently for 999. They don't have the low end of the Q150 but are a better overall speaker when you add a sub to round out the low notes.
jaydunndiddit
3262
Nov 20, 2018
ElectronicVicesYeah, why I linked to the Polks as they have better midrange tonality and smoother treble. The Klipsch horns to my ears sound exciting. On certain pieces of music or movies, some of those highs just really jump out at you from anywhere in the room. It's pretty cool but I can see how some would get annoyed/fatigued by that. They also tend to have good lows for their towers so if you really wanted to skip a sub, you could eke by at the bare minimum. With my Polks, I just upgraded my AVR so they're getting about 150 W per channel now and still could want more. Before, even when I thought they sounded pretty good, they were being pushed with about 80 W. They can handle up to something stupid like 275 W. Right now, I have my crossovers set at 60 hz and when turned up, they can rumble close to or better than my lil 10" sub. They'll never touch my 15" woofers but for pure 2ch stereo, I find the experience hard to beat considering how much these old loudspeakers cost. EDIT: This is the accompanying amp that Yamaha sells that pairs with my AVR - https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/mx-a5000/index.html.
jaydunndidditI'm a soft dome tweeter fan, they tend to have break-up at loud levels but I don't really listen that loud and greatly prefer the tonality at my normal listening volume. Hard domes/inverted domes and those that are horn-loaded tend to handle high volumes better but have a hard edge to my ears. For the 3K list price on that Yamaha I would go elsewhere for the amplification: https://emotiva.com/collections/amps/products/a-5175
https://emotiva.com/collections/amps/products/xpa-dr3 Would still need to run Atmos off of receiver channels in this case but the front three would get 450 watts and the primary surrounds would get 125 watts per channel (all channels driven, not rated at 2-channels). I would be surprise if that Yamaha put out 100 watts per channel all-channels driven. More than enough for most speakers but I have inefficient sealed tower speakers rated to 500 watts RMS.
GunsOfBrixton
911
Nov 20, 2018
ElectronicVicesI agree on the polarizing nature of Klipsch's horns. I absolutely love them, and built my system around them. The RP-280F is the cornerstone of my system for a few reasons. They are super easy to drive, and they can get down into the lower bass better than just about anything in their class. I needed something that would be able to do both stereo and HT well, since I don't like to use the subs with stereo (kills the soundstage). The transparency is amazing, as is the soundstage - competitive with much pricier speakers. Set up right, they just vanish behind a 3D stereo image. And having enjoyed Klipsch speakers for a long time, I can say that I think they did a better job of leveraging the horn's strengths and minimizing their weaknesses on the Reference Premiere series than on any others. That said, I would never blind recommend them. The idea of putting that kind of energy into a medium space with painted drywall surfaces would be...bad. RDO would drive me from these forums with a pitchfork! RDO, it occurs to me that it might be worth mentioning to look at the frequency response specs when you're evaluating your options. In headphone land, we take 20hz for granted on the low end. Even bass-lite headphones give you something when the source calls for it. But it's actually really hard for non-sub speakers to get down there. Most of the speakers that have come up so far have a bottom range in the mid 40s. For classical, or jazz, or classic rock you'll hardly miss it. But since you're an eclectic listener, you might find it lacking in other genres that are more bass-oriented. Just something to keep in mind as you look around in search of that punchy bass, more from an expectation standpoint, and a caution when looking at speakers that are home theater oriented. They are usually presuming a sub is handling things below 60hz.
GunsOfBrixtonI think you nailed the klipsch strengths, the dispersion pattern of that horn tweeter is awesome, I just wish I liked the timbre of it . The mids also are a little more withdrawn that I would like. (Have one friend who is a big fan of klipsch) Properly integrated sub(s) shouldn't kill the soundstage in 2-channel, since mine are only active below 40hz it really only fills out the lowest octave that contains minimal info. If I separate my HT and Hi-fi again I will pickup a pair one of these for the hi-fi and relegate my SW-12's to HT only duty. https://www.svsound.com/products/sb-3000 or http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/uls-15mk2Dual.html
GunsOfBrixton
911
Nov 20, 2018
jaydunndidditThe R-15Ms are budget champs in their powered and passive versions. You can find the passive version for about $120 during black Friday season. Hall of fame value at that price, but I think a bit small for this use case. Would need to get up to the RP-160 (which I also own and really like) And Polk is a really underestimated brand. I've had (and still have) some really nice stuff from them.
jaydunndiddit
3262
Nov 20, 2018
ElectronicVicesAll good stuff, thanks. I'll have to give these a good look. The amp I linked came recommended by my dealer as it would "easily integrate" with the AVR I have now. Thinking on it, I'm sure that was just a sales pitch but I can't deny it looks, feels, and sounded pretty great when he fired them up in their studio.
jaydunndiddit
3262
Nov 20, 2018
GunsOfBrixtonYeah, this was more for Rhodev. I only use angled speakers for presence in my current setup. My main 5.1.2 consists of loudspeakers with 5 1/4" woofers for 3.1 and 4" for my surrounds with 2 x 12" subs. I've been thinking of going to satellites for my Atmos/presence as the bookshelves honestly seem overkill for what they're doing. And I def agree with Polk. I'm biased here as I grew up with this brand (and Klipsch, too) so nostalgia plays a role as well as growing up with their sound. I was HUGE into Boston Acoustics and Infinity for many years before they went kaput for the most part. Polk however, had stayed the same for better or worse over the years which I appreciate. Now that I reflect on it, they remind me of Audeze in a way; good bass if powered correctly, nice mids, and smooth if a bit unremarkable treble. Polk gives me the feeling of how everything should sound 90% of the time but Focal gave me the feeling of actual "HiFi." They also have the price tag behind it, ha ha.
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