Cult of Audio 'Science' Review - Amir's Faithful
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I've noticed a rather lot of blind enthusiasm on these forums where people just drop a single link to an ASR 'review' without commentary as though Amir offers any authority on the subject. Amir is an ex software engineer, 'retired' Microsoft money (EDIT, Amir has corrected me, he is not a software engineer, this is my bad, his background is linked in his sig on ASF); he larps as though he understands hardware but a quick trip off the DAC reservation shows his ignorance very quickly. For instance, here he is needing to be told by one of his forum members that he can simply add a balanced cord to his HD650 to test balanced lol: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/so-what-is-a-common-balanced-headphone-for-testing.4949/ Dude seriously thought he needed an entirely new pair of headphones! LMAO. More fundamentally, he makes all sorts of commentary on spectrum shape at sub -110 dB levels, but offers no precision gauge in the form of repeated measurements. Seriously, look how skeevy Amir gets when the community tries to get him to measure a second Jotunheim (not unreasonable given how 'exceptional' his results were here compared to such a commonly measured unit). https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/schiit-jotunheim-has-no-grounding-hum-issues.6664/ As usual, the good folks at SBAF utterly eviscerate this clown: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/modi-2u-and-d30-dac-deconstructing-amirs-hack-job-part-ii.6449/ Amir's measurements are one of many, and they often differ without explanation or (most damning!) investigation. His measurements are sub Jude-tier, get yourself a second (and third) opinion ;)
(Edited)
thumb_uptivo, Kris2014, and 25 others
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tivo
0
Feb 19, 2020
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Amir's testing methods are questionable...why filter out the 1khz test signal source in fft results? Makes no sense to me, as standard audio (amplifier) tests typically use an extremely low-distortion 1khz oscillator in distortion measurements. Besides, adding a filter alters the test enviroment from 'normal' operating conditions. link >> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-massdrop-x-grace-design-sdac.2495/
Feb 19, 2020
Kris2014
48
Feb 28, 2020
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You should also check his Benchmark DAC1 measurement. He got significantly worse THD+N numbers, and everyone on his side went silent after manufacturer stepped in and pointed out the problem. Total failure. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-benchmark-dac1-usb-dac.3708/
Feb 28, 2020
kpowers
0
Feb 19, 2020
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I've always enjoyed ASR, but I never base my decisions on one guys opinion, that's for sure :) Always a good idea to do your own research, even if they are an internet celebrity...
Feb 19, 2020
andrewdavis7
67
Jan 2, 2020
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I can appreciate folks choosing to trust their ears over measurements. This is all about sensory enjoyment, right? Where the "subjectivist" argument falls down is where they refuse to do any rigorous blinded listening tests. If you trust your ears completely, why not?
(Edited)
Jan 2, 2020
Kris2014
48
Feb 10, 2020
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Measurement can tell a story. Thing is, Amir picks what to show. If one care to compare the way SBAF do their measurement, you will see Amir's measurements never look into transients. And he can apply different methods on the same subject. He tested how USB cables affects SQ. In that test he looked at Jitter measurement. But sometimes some devices output higher noise but less jitter than a "quieter" device. How does that translate into sound from DAC's analog output? Despite he tries to demonstrate affects in SQ, he choose not to directly measure sound as if he was to test analog cable.
Feb 10, 2020
stevenswall
14
Feb 28, 2020
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Yeah, it's really hard to do blind listening tests. Thankfully, that ASR website has lots of people who will talk about the that picks up the slack when the subjectivist argument falls down: the research that has been done with blind tests that can be applied to measurements to calculate a user preference score. I had no idea about this score, but discovered ASR once I got my Genelec 8260 monitors after a year and a half of buying and returning things that were sub par... Come to find out, the 8341, with much less bass extension, is one of the highest scoring things they've measured, so for me, (and I think about 90% of people based on the research,) from a purely acoustic standpoint, it is quite valuable to go off of the preference scores there. That being said, a lot of people don't think of audio reproduction as a science, and it hurts ones ego to think that their tastes can be predicted when they aren't being guided by their eyes and thoughts about what 'should' sound good. In any case, if someone is an outlier or some speakers don't quite fit that system, so be it. I'm quite happy to have a source where I can look for speakers that play well across genres and for the super-majority of people who genuinely want something that sounds good over all else... Just ask me: My speakers are more ugly than anyone else's I've met, and also much flatter and better sounding to me, though my prior self would have said "flat means clinical and it's all subjective, and I listen to X music so I need a matching set of speakers and a synergistic amp." At the end of the day I think ASR and other places are good to pick candidates from, but at some point people have to be willing to return things instead of justifying their purchase. If someone returns 10 things for every 1 they keep, I'd trust their perspective a lot more than most who buy something and then give it a glowing review. As far as my own experience before knowing of ASR: Genelec 8260>Neumann KH80>JBL LSR 308... and this is borne out by measurements and calculated preference scores at ASR. Maybe one day they will also measure the other speakers I listened to but didn't keep: Genelec 1031, Mackie HR824, Devialet Phantom Reactor. Don't have an opinion about the DAC stuff on ASR, as most decent DACs are transparent, and I spent the bulk of my money on things that make a difference, and little to none on things that don't.
Feb 28, 2020
FuzzyFluffy
2
Jan 2, 2020
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The forum is a circlejerk orchestrated by an incompetent administrator with a wild imagination... giving the owner money gives you permisson to treat anyone you dont agree with like shit

(Edited)
Jan 2, 2020
PierreLovesHeadphones
11
Dec 13, 2019
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Reading this thread after 1 year. This is kind of sad. I have noted on ASR a second person is doing reviews with another measurement devices and finding more or less the same thing as Amir. Measurements are likely to be correct. They proved that price and quality are not correlated. Most of the DAC measured are excellent to the point that no audible differences exist between them. After that you believe want you want, if having an expensive DAC makes you happy or having a DAC which colored the sound, that's absolutely fine.
Dec 13, 2019
stevenswall
14
Feb 28, 2020
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I'd love to get more into SBAF... Unfortunately it wasn't user friendly because people couldn't post, (understandable that initially they wanted to control it to stop entropy when growing) and the culture seemed to become a bit elitist in tone.
Feb 28, 2020
Kris2014
48
Feb 28, 2020
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I just joined and it is fine now. Just pay attention to manner as they are not friendly if you posted something not meaningful.
Feb 28, 2020
atmfrank
7
Nov 17, 2019
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Sadly, this entire debate is nothing but a waste of time on so many levels. Remaining open-minded and looking for information is not possible any longer. A reflection of today's society mirrored in the audiophile community, your're either pro-Amir or against-Amir, each camp doing it's best to intellectually out-duel each other. Bravo! What have we learned? Curious-minded, as I try to remain, I was interested in the broadening my information sources for possible future purchase decisions. What I find is a painfully conflicted community that tells me "the (review) game is rigged". I even regret having lurked here, common sense nowhere to be found.
(Edited)
Nov 17, 2019
lupi900
5
Oct 29, 2019
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Or just ignore him, because when i posted there. Apparently pointing out how THD mean nothing about how a headphone sounds, is apparently trolling by the userbase.
Oct 29, 2019
porntipsguzzardo
72
Sep 23, 2019
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ASR is fantastic. Anybody who says otherwise is selling some BS. You want some subjective BS with your audio? Go for it. Waste your money. Want some facts? Go to ASR.
Sep 23, 2019
Kris2014
48
Feb 10, 2020
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Sadly he can only give you half facts, since he picks what to show.
Feb 10, 2020
kcintr
7
Aug 25, 2019
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Amir and his moderator (Thomas) laughing at their naive. gullible, easy to fool, sheepish followers and backers. Even making comparisons of Amir to Bernie Madoff. Thomas: “Umm, what do you call a bunch of less wealthy guys paying for a fairly well off guys retirement fantasy… Amir’s/ASR ‘sugar daddies’ ASR ‘facilitators’ I don’t know , did Bernie Madoff have a name for his investors?” (this post was ‘liked’ by Amir) Amir: “No and hence his downfall. That, and his lack of sense of humor which I have in abundance!!!” (this post ‘liked’ by Thomas savage) Thomas: “Yes Bernie should of behaved more like a charismatic but somewhat clownish ‘cult’ leader but I’d argue he was laughing just as loudly as you.” Thomas: “Soldiers of Amirs fortune.” This is one of the problems of having a moderator who likes to drink, sometimes the truth accidentally slips out. And in true cult fashion, this damning admission will likely not sway the followers one bit.
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Aug 25, 2019
badboygolf16v
45
Sep 29, 2019
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Are you for real? Have you ever heard of humour? Clearly you cannot identify it. Maybe stop taking your opinions (baseless at that) on audio so seriously. Maybe one day you'll grow out of your puerile fanboy approach to life and develop some wit, maturity and critical reasoning skills.
Sep 29, 2019
kcintr
7
Jul 17, 2019
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Amir lacks honesty and integrity. One example, when he falls behind in a debate, he has no problem in resorting to dishonest debate tactics. When called on it, he cries personal attack and calls for the moderator. Ironically, he says nothing of the constant personal attacks on manufacturer reps on his site. Another of his many character flaws is that he’s got a fragile ego. He almost never concedes a point, nor admits to being wrong, no matter how wrong he is. He’ll just resort to more blatant dishonesty in order to give himself and his followers the impression of “winning” an argument. Of course his followers never call him on it. No doubt they recognize it, they just look the other way, intent on maintaining their standing within the group. The cultish behaviour has become more apparent in the past few weeks with these recent developments with his moderator (Thomas). The moderator seemed to be a man of integrity and his moderating style mostly fair and unbiased. He would even join in criticizing Amir on occasion. He was tolerant of opposing views, allowed constructive criticism and didn’t mind tough questions being asked. Of course, this is not good for Amir. Amir needs loyal, unquestioning followers. This type of moderating style will expose his many character flaws. Amir was not happy with the moderating and he and Thomas had a disagreement. Amir wants more censoring and swift banning. In response, Thomas left the position for a time, wanting to maintain his integrity. Unfortunately, Thomas recently decided to sell out and become Amir’s moderator puppet. He must’ve been lured with promises of large payouts once the sponsorships and advertiser dollars begin to roll in. The site is now quick to censor and ban at the slightest hint of any perceived deviant thought or question, as it is with any cult. One last point worth noting. The members there often talk about people fooling themselves. Ironic that they fool themselves into thinking that Amir does what he does just out of the goodness of his heart. Don’t be fooled, faithful Amir followers, it’s all about the money. He’s interested in building a site to make money. Always follow the money, it’s what motivates action. All review sites start off giving the impression of good intentions, but they all end up serving themselves in the end. He’s already proposed the idea of Amazon product links, manufacturer sponsorship, advertiser endorsement, etc. It’s only a matter of time. And when you current regulars complain that he’s sold out, or changed direction, he’ll just label you a troll and have you censored and banned. Then, a new group of loyal followers will replace you. It happens the same way, every time. For those interested in an objective perspective, there are plenty of others out there who have the character and integrity to go along with the data.
Jul 17, 2019
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