Chinese Knives | Knife steel is a...

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Chinese Knives

reswright

awoodby

Jun 5, 2019

I too was very impressed taking apart a couple of Ganzo knives. The ceramic ball bearings and milled trace indeed, smooth as butter! Unfortunately it was only in a lower quality steel though. And also, I tried to find a smaller size, sub or around 3" blade and could not. I emailed 3 different contacts with zero response. Seems they've got the great CNC and design, but craftsman-wise, variety wise (size) and definitely support/responsiveness is non-existent. I did try to scroll through Ganzo's page, it is a mess with no ability to search on size and a thousand or something knives. So, nice design and assembly, no polish, variety nor support IMO. That's on Ganzo, haven't tried SRM yet.

reswright

3850

Jun 5, 2019

awoodbyKnife steel is a funny thing. I'd like it if Ganzo went beyond 440C and D2 in the steels they're using too, but when you look at most other knives priced at that point, you're getting a cheaper chromium steel like 8Cr14MoV or worse. At first when the knives came out people scoffed and said it couldn't be 440 or D2 steel, it was too inexpensive. Now that people have tested it and found it good, the tendency is to ding them for not using something even better like a particulate steel. No argument about sales and service if that's what you like in business. I think we're coming at the experience from very different directions, though. I myself would generally rather chew broken glass then talk to customer service - part of the reason I buy stuff online is that I hate the hassle of sales people and sales talk and generally speaking, knife companies don't pay their customer service reps enough for them to know the level of detail I want to know anyway. They're just poor schmucks who make a shit wage and are reading off a fact sheet or a memorized routine, whether they're in a retail store or manning a phone bank. If those folks answer your questions just fine, you're doing better than i am with them -- they usually can't answer mine and I get annoyed by the whole process. I think that's the whole reason Amazon and other internet merchants got so big -- some folks just don't want anything like that. Some of us, in fact, would pay real money to avoid it. We used to drive across town to find places where the salespeople leave you alone until you actually had a question for them, now we get online. But if you're the opposite, if you're the kinda guy who wants to talk to a person and feel like you're a part of that and have someone make suggestions to you and you do see a big value in it, you might indeed want to go a different way. different strokes for different folks - i don't think that's anything that Ganzo's really focusing on as part of their core mission. As far as fit and finish and whether the knives show any craftsmanship, I will contend that point. I'd stack them up against any other knives at their price, made by anyone anywhere in 2019. To be honest I worry i've misunderstood what you mean - might I ask what you think craftsmanship is, if you think the knives are well designed and have a great works that impressed you when you took them apart, but you don't think the knives show craftsmanship? Because if your answer is 'the little touches that a master knifesmith puts on their products that make a real difference in usability' that's what I think too. And your expectations might be a little unrealistic for a knife that costs under $20. Getting that on an american blade takes some dough. It depends on what you're looking at, too. Compared to the Benchmades and so ons that they're copying, yeah, you're going to find superior work on those American blades. Sheesh, i'd hope so, you know? Would I rather have my Osborne than their version of the Osborne? Hell yah. I'd rather have my Bedlam than theirs and my Grip than theirs too. I think most would. Generally speaking, those Benchmades cost an order of magnitude more than the Ganzos that clone them, so if they AREN'T better there's a problem. But when you stack the Ganzos up against other knives at their price point, THAT comparison goes Ganzo's way as a general rule. The important part of this is that I don't think it represent some shining awesomeness on Ganzo's part so much as I think it reflects the fact that budget knives have been cheap and crappy and poorly made for our entire lives. The Ganzos shine a light on that, as well as the fact that these knives don't need to be bad to be budget. It's a wake up call to a lot of American knife makers. With American knife makers, paying the cost for excellence is NOT a problem as far as I'm concerned. It's not the cost of greatness that's out of whack, it's the cost of mediocrity. Anyway, not to read too much into anything you said but: if the praise is grudging because of American pride, I got ya. Felt that way too for a long time. You don't really have to explain it if it's that. I just want to keep things concrete when we're talking about the actual mechanics of the knives, so others don't draw the same mistaken conclusions with which we initially struggled.

(Edited)

reswright

3850

Jun 5, 2019

reswrightOne other thing - you might want to try the FH51 if you really did just want a slightly smaller knife.

awoodby

Jun 6, 2019

reswrightargh! mid reply I hit a button to find the "Dao" name and now retyping. Shorter now though. TL; DR Agreed, Chinese manufacturing is way more affordable, and you can get a pretty similar knife, and lose it many times, before you get to the price of what it's cloning. Is it as good? Not if you're picky, but it's still darn good. You pay a premium for little things like the designing it, high-end steel and quality control. If that's that important to you. As well as warranty against breakage. Chatty reply below. Yes the $30 Ganzo's are great for price. The ones I got were just 440 which is a bit soft (dulls quickly cutting boxes when I'm volunteering at a pantry), but I really like D2 for a basic steel, seems a little bit better and I like sharpening it (I'm a sharpening nut). They're close to comparing to a low-end Spyderco I picked up, though it's fit and finish are quite a bit better. By fit and finish I mean, the edges of the scales are sharp, cnc'd. Easily fixed in a minute with sandpaper, but not "finished". In comparison the Spyderco Efficient I picked up for $42 has those finishing touches and thought. It's 8CR13Mov steel, still not top end, but takes a great edge. The scales are perfect, no sharp edge that has a little lip. The Efficient's action is smooth as silk, snaps to with a *ting*, though lacking the bearings, well fit brass lubed between steel slides just fine. It's also thinner so fits in the pocket better, whereas the Ganzo has thick scales for no real reason (mind you, size is definitely just a personal preference). The Efficient is also made in China though, just better quality control really, and original design. I've even given away some Ganzo's to friends who want a decent knife but aren't nuts about it. I do have some great Chinese knives. The ferrum forge DAO and Gent are excellent knives. They're made out of CPM-S35VN steel (of Chris Reeve fame) and high end titanium (there are grades of Ti also). But still, fit and finish. I had to disassemble the DAO immediately and mill/smooth the drilled hole where the frame lock bearing sits, just plain was impossible to open. You have to still watch you're not holding it by half of the framelock side or it won't give. The Gent is a great knife, but the exotic wood scales, again, aren't rounded at all, they're all sharp angles. As a woodworker, sharp edges are broken edges. Not to mention rough on pants. Neither knife came super sharp. They were 100-140, probably comparable to $170-$200 knives from american makers. Can't argue either that chinese stuff's less expensive, and for $50 I'll Gladly tune them a little bit, and I'm going to resharpen anything anyway. Maybe that extra $ is for quality control. Support? I'll do Much to avoid talking to a salesdroid. But their webpage search function was only partially functional, responding to sales questions isn't that much to ask. In comparison I've called Benchmade once, to check on deep carry clips, and got a few for ridiculously cheap. I DO try to buy local, but I'm not as adamant since my $400 simplicity vacuum purchase. It's a decent vacuum, on par with a $200 panasonic, and for another $120 they'd add a switch to shut off the beater bar when using the hose. I'll buy American if available and if it doesn't require getting soaked in the process. The ferrum forge's have me kind of wanting to buy a few WE knives, or (recommendations?) For the money, nope, can't beat reputable Chinese makers (knock-offs from unspecified brands... take your chances) but if you're picky, may take a little tuning for that money saved. ...rereading all of this, I'm not sure if we're even disagreeing here. I'm not even aware of many actual american-made sub-$30 knives of this level. Kershaw's pretty good, but made elsewhere. I've liked a few others in that price range, but assume they're made elsewhere as well.

awoodby

Jun 6, 2019

reswrightFH51 looks decent. I still plan on stalking their board to find 3" blades, but I'm well over my knife budget for now!

reswright

3850

Jun 6, 2019

awoodbyThis is what is called “being in violent agreement” in some circles. I think we we are way on the same page, at any rate. Re sub $30 US made knives: Buck has a couple that qualify. That’s 420 but they make it work. Don’t know that Kershaw does anymore, their American workforce seems to make their higher end Ken Onion stuff. Maybe on sale. That’s the thing: as everyone goes down their mental list of US brands you see ‘em remember one at a time; everyones’ budget stuff comes from SE Asia now. Even Spydies. The only US makers that don’t, don’t make budget knives at all: you have to have money to be holding one, which is how social status discriminators work. Btw some people think SRM makes the Efficient for Spyderco. As far as high end recommendations, I like WE knife but maybe like Reate and Rike a touch more.

reswright

3850

Jun 7, 2019

awoodbyI measured and the FH51 does have a blade slightly over 3 inches. One you might like is their 753 series :

Here it is next to the FH51:

The F753M is 3" on the nose. It's got Ganzo's version of the axis lock (now that the patent expired on the axis lock everyone's trying it out) and comes in a range of handles and whatnot. Unlike the FH51, which has D2, it's got 440C steel. You know, for budget knives I'm happier with Sandvik but 440C is fine. The handle is plenty light. Whether it's honest to god carbon fiber or a simulant, I dunno. Inside it's simple.

As you can see, it's PB instead of ceramic bearings. Flips nice, though. Very easy to tune to a gravity drop, still no wobble in the blade. I think you'll probably like it fine. Did I mention it's $16? It's $16. For everyone else reading along: if you've never seen the inside of the vaunted Axis Lock, this is what it looks like with the scales off and the axis bar pulled down into the neutral position::

That's it. Simple metal cylinder that can slot up next to the blade and keep it from unlocking. Simple piece of spring steel wire to give it tension. Set of washers that ride between the spring end and the fittings on the lock. Slightly rude looking mill work in both sides of the liner. If you were expecting something a little more Swiss Cuckoo Clock, you are in good company - the first time I took one apart I was kind of underwhelmed - but this is a pretty good example of why simple can be better. Here it is in the normal position.

And here's the knife all back to normal. I gave it a touch of lube on the washers and a thin coat on the inside portion of the axis lock and the rub points on the tang.

Nice little knife.

(Edited)

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