[Ongoing] Kitchen Knives Questions & Answers | If you want a...

[Ongoing] Kitchen Knives Questions & Answers

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matb

Dec 8, 2017

If you want a good knife, get a high-carbon steel knife, not a hard stainless knife. I'll never use anything else after spending a lot of hours boning, skinning, and carving. Get you a pair of dexters, and you'll be happy you did. https://www.dexter1818.com/shop.html

Dec 8, 2017

matbDexters are really solid knives, but you might be mixing some terminology.
High-Carbon and stainless aren't mutually exclusive. Knives can be both high-carbon and stainless.
Stainless typically refers to chromium content in the blade steel. Generally less than 10% is considered not stainless, between 10 and 12.5 is considered semi-stainless and over 12.5 is considered stainless steel.
Compare this to carbon content. Mild steel is generally 0.05-0.25% carbon, making it malleable and ductile, its cheap and easy to form. Its often used as structural steel. High carbon steel is typically 0.30-2% carbon. The highest carbon content is typically achived via powdered metallurgy, where 3.25-4% is possible.
For example: 440C stainless steel has a carbon content of .95 to 1.2%, and chromium content of 16-18%. This is generally regarded as a decent blade steel.
VG-10 is cutlery grade stainless steel from Japan, 1% Carbon, 15% Chromium, 1% Molybdenum, 0.2% Vanadium, 1.5% Cobalt, and 0.5% Manganese. This is considered the bottom end of "super steels".
52100 Carbon Steel is NOT STAINLESS, but is a fantastic knife steel none the less. It's 1% carbon, 1.5% chromium, .3% manganese and some other stuff. Some very high end Carbon Steel blades are made from it, such as Bob Kramer blades. These carbon steels tend to patina very quickly and require a higher level of care than any stainless.
ZDP-189 is an example of an ultra high carbon supersteel from Hitachi, it's 3% carbon, 20% chromium, 1.3% molybdenum, 1.5% tungsten and 0.1% vandium. This is an absolutely fantastic blade steel, only seen on very high end knives. As far as I know it's only possible to create ZDP-189 via powdered metallurgy.

jrtruji1

Dec 8, 2017

matbI've used Dexters in a professional setting. I like them but I prefer the Victorinox knives overall because Victorinox tend to be slightly cheaper and a little more durable. As always it depends what you and your company decide to purchase. Also, stainless knives tend to be a little easier on the maintenance end, you don't need to keep a bit of oil on them when you are done to prevent rusting, however, if you are cutting highly acidic foods like pineapple, tomatoes, onions, and any citrus, you should be routinely washing your knife because the acid will eat the edge faster and dull the finish causing corrosion regardless of if the knife is stainless or non-stainless high carbon.

Dec 9, 2017

AngryAccountantPowdered steels from Japan are a real challenge to sharpen at home, even if you have the really good stones or other sharpening options. While these steels sound attractive, the difficulty in resharpening at home is enough for me to rule them out. Heck, I have moved away from them even in pocket knives for routine carry.
I find VG-10 kitchen knives to be easy to source at a moderate price point and, they are much easier to maintain. For me it is a toss up between BG-42 and VG-10 as to which takes the keenest edge given the same edge geometries.

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Hello__There

Dec 11, 2017

matbStainless steels can be, and often are, high carbon. The hassle of traditional carbon steel blades really isn't worth it, especially with modern steels like S30V and VG-10. In a short culinary knife you really get minimal advantage with traditional carbon steel and it's much harder to take care of because of how quickly it rusts.

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Dec 12, 2017

SidPostWhich powdered steels have been the troubling ones in your experience? Can't say I've had an issue yet using synthetic Japanese waterstones

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Dec 12, 2017

sc_fdLarge carbide high wear blades are beyond most people's hand sharpening skills, even with really good stones (in my case Shapton's from Japan being some of my best). These blades take a lot of time and consistency to re-edge or, even for a light tune up. BG-42, VG-10, etc. are worlds faster and easier to maintain.
440V is one widely available steel that is a bear to resharpen when dull if you don't have top flight sharpening equipment or stones. I have had other "powdered metallurgy" blades that fall into this category as well. Super Gold and other names over the years, all powdered metallurgy", are much more difficult to resharpen when dull than more common mainsteam stainless and carbon steels.
Modern powdered metallurgy blades are not the best for novice or entry level sharpeners IMHO. I also have a personal preference today to spend more time cutting stuff and less time working a great set of waterstones. Sure, that 'super steel' blade cuts nice (assuming the right edge geometry) but, do I really want to spend all that time maintaining the edge when a blade steel that gives me ~90% of the same performance at less cost can be put back into service in a fraction of the time it takes for the 'super steel'?

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Dec 12, 2017

SidPostPersonally I tend to prefer sharpening carbon steels more than most stainless, though haven't had near as much issue sharpening something like Yoshihiro's High Speed Steel gyuto as compared to the time it takes to tune up or salvage cheap thick stainless (unfortunately some of the mainstream knives out there) which can certainly still have a lot of carbides from the excess Chromium content. Size of bevel/edge geometry have a huge contribution to time and amount of skill needed to sharpen well. Wouldn't sic a thick edged knife on a new sharpener, be it mainstream stainless or a super steel Still though, provided the stone does cut the steel, and the sharpener has technique necessary to sharpen a knife, the difference is mainly repetition and time spent doing the same strokes.

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Dec 12, 2017

sc_fdHeh, I had some trouble sharpening D2 just the other night, though that one's known to be a pain. Some of the stuff that's harder than that would be even worse.

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Dec 12, 2017

AngryAccountantAhhh. I've heard meh things about sharpening or grinding D2. Haven't had to do anything to my D2 folder yet

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Dec 12, 2017

sc_fdYeah, at least it holds a great edge so I'm only doing it rarely. It wouldn't surprise me if it were at 60-62 HRC.

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Dec 12, 2017

AngryAccountantGuess it's a stubbornness that's somewhat but not totally related to HRC. Several of my main kitchen knives are 61-65, mix of carbon, stainless, semi-stainless

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Dec 12, 2017

sc_fdIt certainly could be, D2 is known to be exceptionally abrasion resistant (oh hey, sharpening is abrasion...). I hate to consider what it would take to get something like AR600 steel plate to sharpen.

Dec 12, 2017

AngryAccountantD2 has big carbides which are a challenge to sharpen for most people. That's also why it is so 'toothy' in actual use.
Heat treat can also affect all of this as alluded to in the hardness reference. Grain growth control affects things both positively and negatively!
I have ATS-34 that rusted fairly easily. I have also had 1095 that was strangely very rust resistant. Both were this way due to their heat treats, not the metal used.
While a steady hand can sharpen the difficult powdered steels, most people at large don't have a steady enough hand and ARE NOT willing to spend the time it takes to do it. Yes it can be done by hand but, not easily or quickly or by a novice.

Dec 12, 2017

SidPostYeah, It's even a tough one to sharpen with a guided sharpener like the Hapstone I have, it's an excellent steel though, I'm always impressed by its cuts. I'm guessing Benchmade's got the heat treat down pretty well too, so yeah that goes a long way.

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Dec 12, 2017

AngryAccountantMy 'rusty' ATS-34 is an old Benchmade Tanto folder (Stryker). It is also a tad brittle and definitely had a bad heat treat. My other Benchmades from that era are good knives.

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Dec 12, 2017

SidPostI've only got one so my sample size is limited, an HK 14808 Turmoil (HK Outsources to Benchmade). If I didn't know better, I'd claim its stainless.

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Dec 12, 2017

AngryAccountantI've got one HK knife from Benchmade and it's a good one. It is also ~10 years newer.

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Dec 12, 2017

SidPostI'm a fan of it. OTF knives are like my fidget spinners...

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