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tbjs
483
Feb 18, 2018
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ProfessorPat
380
Feb 19, 2018
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tbjsWhat level of quality? You could go dedicated high res DAP and call it good for some setups. You could run your phone/tablet alone. You could run a phone/tablet into a DAC. Some mobile setups are huge. Some are very simple. Depends on what you want.
A lot of what you need depends on how picky you are and what you're trying to drive. My mobile setup is v0 MP3s on my phone into either my HD25-1 II or whatever cheapie IEM I haven't broken yet. There's generally so much background noise or extra stuff going on that the music isn't my primary focus in that scenario, but rather a nice addition to it.
My home setup is not portable at all. My desktop, DAC, amp, and headphones are all far from portable options. I keep the two options very separate. That definitely doesn't need to happen, but my point is your goals are as important as anything in what to recommend.
A lot of what you need depends on how picky you are and what you're trying to drive. My mobile setup is v0 MP3s on my phone into either my HD25-1 II or whatever cheapie IEM I haven't broken yet. There's generally so much background noise or extra stuff going on that the music isn't my primary focus in that scenario, but rather a nice addition to it.
My home setup is not portable at all. My desktop, DAC, amp, and headphones are all far from portable options. I keep the two options very separate. That definitely doesn't need to happen, but my point is your goals are as important as anything in what to recommend.
tbjs
483
Feb 19, 2018
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ProfessorPatReally what it is, is that I'm new to the world of headphones. And that has driven my critical ear to start buzzing again. And what I'm realizing is that with headphones I can have critical listening pretty much anywhere I go.
I just finished setting up a dedicated office. However, much of my time is spent in the car. I drive for a living. However, these days I can't sit in my car idling all day. And I can only have my radio playing so long before I have to shut the accessories down. So why not have a good set of portable headphones and a good source to listen to.
So currently I have a pair of final audio e2000 earpieces. I also have a set of Koss portapros. I also have a set of Audio Technica m40x. After purchasing those I bought a Fiio E17k. I have since bought a hifiman he4xx. And I found at that little amp is not enough for those cans.
So really what I want to know is there a good way of having good Hi-Fi audio set up in my car? My 2015 Lincoln MKS is Bluetooth capable has an SD card input and also has two USB inputs. So I am thinking that the audio-technica's will be fine in the car, I think I'd be happy with that. But I don't want to spend a ton of money but I know I would like those hifiman S if it had more power and a better DAC. But I got into headphones also because I didn't want to spend a lot of money lol. So now I'm looking at Dax and amps and bit rates and sampling and everything and I like what I have but I realize I am so far behind the curve and I spend hours online reading and updating my knowledge base.
So as much as I would like to build my knowledge and make my own decisions for Simplicity sake I'd like to get some feedback as to what other people do not necessarily on the cheap but understanding what would be something that I can get into that I don't feel like I have to tear down and redo down the road.
Again I hate my type of inquiry but I am swimming a bit here. Thank you for your patience.
I just finished setting up a dedicated office. However, much of my time is spent in the car. I drive for a living. However, these days I can't sit in my car idling all day. And I can only have my radio playing so long before I have to shut the accessories down. So why not have a good set of portable headphones and a good source to listen to.
So currently I have a pair of final audio e2000 earpieces. I also have a set of Koss portapros. I also have a set of Audio Technica m40x. After purchasing those I bought a Fiio E17k. I have since bought a hifiman he4xx. And I found at that little amp is not enough for those cans.
So really what I want to know is there a good way of having good Hi-Fi audio set up in my car? My 2015 Lincoln MKS is Bluetooth capable has an SD card input and also has two USB inputs. So I am thinking that the audio-technica's will be fine in the car, I think I'd be happy with that. But I don't want to spend a ton of money but I know I would like those hifiman S if it had more power and a better DAC. But I got into headphones also because I didn't want to spend a lot of money lol. So now I'm looking at Dax and amps and bit rates and sampling and everything and I like what I have but I realize I am so far behind the curve and I spend hours online reading and updating my knowledge base.
So as much as I would like to build my knowledge and make my own decisions for Simplicity sake I'd like to get some feedback as to what other people do not necessarily on the cheap but understanding what would be something that I can get into that I don't feel like I have to tear down and redo down the road.
Again I hate my type of inquiry but I am swimming a bit here. Thank you for your patience.
ProfessorPat
380
Feb 19, 2018
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tbjsMost music is still 16bit, 44.1khz sample rate. That's CD quality, red book standard, and while you can go higher, unless you have better gear (in general, not necessarily relative to what you have), or have really picky ears, the differences don't stand out too much. Worrying about tracking down bigger and better music is silly if you have a decent copy already. If it's an option, go ahead and take the best copy you can get. You can downsample if needed for hardware or storage reasons, but don't get obsessive over that aspect of it.
As far as playback, pretty much any DAC out there is capable of 24/96 at the very least, most doing 24/192 or better these days. There are much more useful things to focus on than bit depth or sample rate in your gear, unless you see that it doesn't support what you're after.
Unfortunately, pretty much everything is a "replace it" item on the hardware side if you start down this path and want a change. You can't upgrade an amp or DAC without getting something new that makes your old stuff obsolete. (Someone will mention Schiit's upgrades... you're still tossing out your old DAC board there). Portable stuff is going to be obsoleted a lot more often than bigger desktop stuff, mostly due to batteries and efficiency in that regard. You're also a lot more likely to see DAC/Amp combos than separates in the portable side of things. I don't do combos, but all of my stuff never moves. The disadvantage to combos is that they aren't as flexible if you're upgrading things or trying to achieve a certain sound. The advantage is size, potentially synergy, and usually cost.
If you want something that you can use at home or on the go, you're probably after a combo. If you're looking to use the Hifimans, you're looking for considerably more power than what you've got though, which is slightly more challenging in a portable setup than a desktop setup if you're after a nice low price. Ignoring price (honestly, I'm not ignoring it, I just know these are fairly pricey recommendations), an ifi iDSD Micro BL or Chord Mojo do portable (not that they're exactly small...), good power, all while being nice enough to be the same device you use on the desk where you're not limited to something battery powered. That's definitely not to say those are the choices you should make here, but they're an option to meet the goal of portable and desktop setups without being something you'd likely want to replace in a month or two.
Despite the fact that I recently upgraded mine, DAC swaps are much less dramatic changes than amps. Anything dedicated to better audio and not stuffed inside an electrically noisy box (your phone, computer, etc.) is going to be a massive upgrade over integrated DACs, with subsequent upgrades being much more minor. Don't worry about getting something amazing there. Proper power out of your amp is much more important. The weakest amp I've fed those Hifimans with that sounded like they weren't being held back from lack of power was 1W into 32 ohms. They could probably run fine on a little less, but I'd be looking for at least 3/4W at that level.
There's nothing to undo with regard to your music if you're getting the best copy you can. Everything should be lossless in whatever quality level you can find it. If you go lossy now, and want better later, you're re-buying or re-ripping. That's no fun. You can go lossy for portability (storage space) all you want if you're making a lossy copy of your lossless version. FLAC is probably the best lossless format, just because it's widely supported and usually the smallest of the bunch. DSD will be its own thing. You're not going to accidentally find DSD stuff often, so that's not something to worry about much. You pretty much have to know what you're after there. If you don't have SACDs already, don't worry about it.
There's tons of stuff to learn for sure... I don't run a portable setup myself, so I can't really comment on many options there. I know the two I mentioned would work there, but there are surely cheaper options, as well as people with actual opinions on the sound of these things. In that regard, I'm no help.
As far as playback, pretty much any DAC out there is capable of 24/96 at the very least, most doing 24/192 or better these days. There are much more useful things to focus on than bit depth or sample rate in your gear, unless you see that it doesn't support what you're after.
Unfortunately, pretty much everything is a "replace it" item on the hardware side if you start down this path and want a change. You can't upgrade an amp or DAC without getting something new that makes your old stuff obsolete. (Someone will mention Schiit's upgrades... you're still tossing out your old DAC board there). Portable stuff is going to be obsoleted a lot more often than bigger desktop stuff, mostly due to batteries and efficiency in that regard. You're also a lot more likely to see DAC/Amp combos than separates in the portable side of things. I don't do combos, but all of my stuff never moves. The disadvantage to combos is that they aren't as flexible if you're upgrading things or trying to achieve a certain sound. The advantage is size, potentially synergy, and usually cost.
If you want something that you can use at home or on the go, you're probably after a combo. If you're looking to use the Hifimans, you're looking for considerably more power than what you've got though, which is slightly more challenging in a portable setup than a desktop setup if you're after a nice low price. Ignoring price (honestly, I'm not ignoring it, I just know these are fairly pricey recommendations), an ifi iDSD Micro BL or Chord Mojo do portable (not that they're exactly small...), good power, all while being nice enough to be the same device you use on the desk where you're not limited to something battery powered. That's definitely not to say those are the choices you should make here, but they're an option to meet the goal of portable and desktop setups without being something you'd likely want to replace in a month or two.
Despite the fact that I recently upgraded mine, DAC swaps are much less dramatic changes than amps. Anything dedicated to better audio and not stuffed inside an electrically noisy box (your phone, computer, etc.) is going to be a massive upgrade over integrated DACs, with subsequent upgrades being much more minor. Don't worry about getting something amazing there. Proper power out of your amp is much more important. The weakest amp I've fed those Hifimans with that sounded like they weren't being held back from lack of power was 1W into 32 ohms. They could probably run fine on a little less, but I'd be looking for at least 3/4W at that level.
There's nothing to undo with regard to your music if you're getting the best copy you can. Everything should be lossless in whatever quality level you can find it. If you go lossy now, and want better later, you're re-buying or re-ripping. That's no fun. You can go lossy for portability (storage space) all you want if you're making a lossy copy of your lossless version. FLAC is probably the best lossless format, just because it's widely supported and usually the smallest of the bunch. DSD will be its own thing. You're not going to accidentally find DSD stuff often, so that's not something to worry about much. You pretty much have to know what you're after there. If you don't have SACDs already, don't worry about it.
There's tons of stuff to learn for sure... I don't run a portable setup myself, so I can't really comment on many options there. I know the two I mentioned would work there, but there are surely cheaper options, as well as people with actual opinions on the sound of these things. In that regard, I'm no help.
tbjs
483
Feb 19, 2018
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ProfessorPatI very much appreciate the info and time it took to type that all out.
I certainly would like to have a separate amp and DAC for the office. I'm leaning towards the Schitt stack setup but also keeping my eye on the O2/Grace stuff. I have zero experience here, so I'm leaning on the opinions of others. But what I know I've liked in the past(typically warmer over analytical) is what I'll like now.
As for files, I just want a set it and forget it solution. If I know I'll be spending time redoing a library down the road, I'm not bothering at all. I just want a tried and true format.
As much as I want the best sound for my ears as I can get, I'm also the same guy who tells his friends to not go stat hunting when TV shopping and that once you stop comparing and just enjoying, you don't know the difference.
So, yeah.
Thanks again!
I certainly would like to have a separate amp and DAC for the office. I'm leaning towards the Schitt stack setup but also keeping my eye on the O2/Grace stuff. I have zero experience here, so I'm leaning on the opinions of others. But what I know I've liked in the past(typically warmer over analytical) is what I'll like now.
As for files, I just want a set it and forget it solution. If I know I'll be spending time redoing a library down the road, I'm not bothering at all. I just want a tried and true format.
As much as I want the best sound for my ears as I can get, I'm also the same guy who tells his friends to not go stat hunting when TV shopping and that once you stop comparing and just enjoying, you don't know the difference.
So, yeah.
Thanks again!
ProfessorPat
380
Feb 19, 2018
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tbjsI have the Modi 2 Uber, and it's fairly bright. Nice little DAC, but not warm. Not sure how the SDAC compares, but it's supposedly preferred by a lot that try it an the Modi 2 side by side. The SDAC should be better than the ODAC though, as it's designed as a sort of upgrade to it.
Schiit's multibit stuff is supposed to be a lot warmer, but the price is a lot higher too. The Magni 3 is supposed to be warm though, and it's a beefy little amp. Plenty of power. Not sure how warm the combo leans, but I ran my fairly bright Modi 2U with a warm sounding tube hybrid and it was a nice combo for sure. I like a slightly warm sound myself, so you might like the Schiit combo if the Magni is as warm or warmer than my amp was, but the SDAC and Magni 3 may be a better setup. Either way, that's a very solid path for a desktop setup.
I've been running the same library of FLAC stuff since before I got my first amp, it's just growing constantly. Sure, I've got more high res stuff now than I had back then, but lossless is pretty well future proof. If you've got CDs, rip them to any lossless format. If you have digital stuff that isn't lossless, there's nothing you can do there. One lossless format converts to another without issue though, without starting over. They have different compression methods, but none of them throw out data. No issues there. If you have WAV and need FLAC, or have FLAC and need ALAC, it all converts without any degradation. FLAC has been around for quite a while, and is supported by most things, so it's definitely not something that's going anywhere. It's also smaller than most alternatives, so it's just simpler to go that way from the start.
Ripping to FLAC is no more difficult than ripping to MP3 or whatever else you could use. And most places that offer lossless downloads will be using FLAC. That's just the easiest choice.
Schiit's multibit stuff is supposed to be a lot warmer, but the price is a lot higher too. The Magni 3 is supposed to be warm though, and it's a beefy little amp. Plenty of power. Not sure how warm the combo leans, but I ran my fairly bright Modi 2U with a warm sounding tube hybrid and it was a nice combo for sure. I like a slightly warm sound myself, so you might like the Schiit combo if the Magni is as warm or warmer than my amp was, but the SDAC and Magni 3 may be a better setup. Either way, that's a very solid path for a desktop setup.
I've been running the same library of FLAC stuff since before I got my first amp, it's just growing constantly. Sure, I've got more high res stuff now than I had back then, but lossless is pretty well future proof. If you've got CDs, rip them to any lossless format. If you have digital stuff that isn't lossless, there's nothing you can do there. One lossless format converts to another without issue though, without starting over. They have different compression methods, but none of them throw out data. No issues there. If you have WAV and need FLAC, or have FLAC and need ALAC, it all converts without any degradation. FLAC has been around for quite a while, and is supported by most things, so it's definitely not something that's going anywhere. It's also smaller than most alternatives, so it's just simpler to go that way from the start.
Ripping to FLAC is no more difficult than ripping to MP3 or whatever else you could use. And most places that offer lossless downloads will be using FLAC. That's just the easiest choice.
g6100s
26
Feb 19, 2018
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ProfessorPatThanks for taking the time to share. I’m very new myself. Portable DAC options for me include the Audioquest Dragonflies (both black and red ) and the Chord Mojo. Music files are lossless ALAC & with some FLAC files thrown in (mainly King Crimson & Creedence Clearwater Revival ) running out of a dedicated IPhone 6plus.
Critical listening is often not possible when at work or on the go and has become more and more restricted to down time and on vacations.
Its been rather liberating recently to leave all those cables and DACs at home and just use a wireless set. I’ve been rather taken with the B&W PX’s which I’ve bought recently. The convenience aside it just seems to make more sense to me when away from home
g6100s
26
Feb 19, 2018
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tbjsFrom upgrading source files to higher resolution formats like FLAC etc, upgrading DACS & Headphones there’s just way too many options limited by how much we pay & yes I do believe in the law of diminishing returns. I think the music matters and CD quality files are pretty good to begin with.
ProfessorPat
380
Feb 21, 2018
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g6100sMusic definitely matters. Mastering is more important than anything once you hit CD quality and above though. I have a few 24/88.2 and 24/96 things that are significantly worse than some CD rips, completely due to mastering quality. You don’t have to spend more for better there... you just have to like bands that put out good releases. Sure, there are bands with good releases where you can still track down better versions if you’re after that upgrade, but lots of things are great without being “high resolution” copies.
With options like the Dragonfly, Schiit’s low end stuff, etc. diminishing returns hits very hard. My amp is a $1000 retail amp, and it doesn’t sound 3x better than my old amp. My DAC is $500 retail. Not 5x better than the Modi was. Notable improvements for sure, and I don’t feel they were bad purchases by any means, but prices definitely leap for those improvements given the quality of some pretty easily attainable gear.
It makes more sense to spend all your money on new music rather than the pursuit of newer and better gear once you get some decent stuff... but this way’s fun!
With options like the Dragonfly, Schiit’s low end stuff, etc. diminishing returns hits very hard. My amp is a $1000 retail amp, and it doesn’t sound 3x better than my old amp. My DAC is $500 retail. Not 5x better than the Modi was. Notable improvements for sure, and I don’t feel they were bad purchases by any means, but prices definitely leap for those improvements given the quality of some pretty easily attainable gear.
It makes more sense to spend all your money on new music rather than the pursuit of newer and better gear once you get some decent stuff... but this way’s fun!
FlyingDisc
53
Feb 25, 2018
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tbjs"1. What is the best all around file format?"
Depends on who you ask. Mostly depends on the "source materiel" The CD-Audio format is "the most useful" There ARE higher resolution recording formats than CD-Audio. Most songs from the iTunes store are going to be more compressed than CD-Audio. Many people cannot hear the difference. I can hear the difference with some of my headphones and with my JBLs that I got from Massdrop.
And the big question you asked - I store ALL my digital media files on hard drives and then copy them to devices I want to listen to them on.
Depends on who you ask. Mostly depends on the "source materiel" The CD-Audio format is "the most useful" There ARE higher resolution recording formats than CD-Audio. Most songs from the iTunes store are going to be more compressed than CD-Audio. Many people cannot hear the difference. I can hear the difference with some of my headphones and with my JBLs that I got from Massdrop.
And the big question you asked - I store ALL my digital media files on hard drives and then copy them to devices I want to listen to them on.
Mclement1964
24
Mar 13, 2018
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tbjsThe LG V30 cellphone has an outstanding DAC section, and will drive headphones better than any other cell 8 know of, Fiio also makes portable audio players. I own the X5 iii. If memory serves right, it supports 2×200gb SD cards, You can use it's own playback capability or download an,android app.
The UI can be frustratingly laggy. At least mine is, but the DAC and amp sections are pretty awesome for what they are.
ridhuankim
671
Mar 13, 2018
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Mclement1964I was on the edge whether to buy Fiio X5 III but alk the reviews complained about the laggy performance.
So I ordered Q5 instead.
I enjoyed my FIIO X5 II which I sold, it had no performance issues which was awesome.
Blaidd
6
Mar 13, 2018
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tbjsI have a similar set of headphones. I will chip in my opinions.
1. Flac is a great file format. It is losslessly compressed, let's you store about as much metadata as you might like, and works on just about every player. For a computer run system, I would definitely play them with JRiver.
For running the headphones, a reasonably priced option are DACs and amps from Schiit. I use the Bifrost DAC and the Lyr amp.
1. Flac is a great file format. It is losslessly compressed, let's you store about as much metadata as you might like, and works on just about every player. For a computer run system, I would definitely play them with JRiver.
For running the headphones, a reasonably priced option are DACs and amps from Schiit. I use the Bifrost DAC and the Lyr amp.
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So I never took the time to redo my collection. Now, about 8 years later is all this technology and I'm just absolutely swimming. I'm trying to catch up, reading as much as I can. Is there any one place I can go to relearn and learn how to have high quality music on the go??
And if anyone has any tips on whether to store music on a phone, DAP, tablet, PC, laptop and then how to get the best at my desk AND on the go, I'd love help.