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DoneItDesign
81
Aug 21, 2017
This statement seems a little contradictory, I'm unsure why serious watch people would include a knock-off Casio in their collection. This watch appears far from excellent.
Bugxy
2065
Aug 21, 2017
DoneItDesignMany watch collectors started liking watches before they had money. And this is a homage, not a knockoff. There's a difference. A knockoff is a fake with the brand name that they are knocking off. A homage is a legitimate reproduction of a design that does not attempt to pass off as the brand copied. Most modern dive watches are homage watches. This one is excellent because it is packed with features, is affordable, and represents history for me.
Bugxy
2065
Aug 21, 2017
richardfung
7
Aug 21, 2017
BugxyPerhaps an unpopular opinion but I'll disagree.
A homage is "special honor or respect shown publicly." To me this would mean taking design cues from another product but still doing something new. The Nomos Tangente is a homage to the old Bauhaus watches. Writing a piece of music with an allusion to another piece of music is a homage.
Counterfeiting is making an exact copy. A knockoff is just a counterfeit that doesn't pretend to be the same brand. (https://bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/28/the-legality-of-buying-knockoffs/) Relevant quote:
"According to the lawyers I spoke with, it is important to distinguish between counterfeit and knockoff goods. Counterfeit goods, they said, actually have copies of a brand’s label or signature symbols or marks that so closely resemble the original they appear identical  (think a Lacoste-looking design with the signature alligator). Knockoffs, on the other hand, don’t have such words or symbols and merely resemble the original."
I also like watches and can't afford them unfortunately. However, buying knockoffs or counterfeits only supports an industry built upon stealing. Watches are just a luxury in the end.
Bugxy
2065
Aug 21, 2017
richardfungFrom a legal standpoint, what matters is whether a regular purchaser will confuse a reproduction for the original (i.e. whether the public believes that the reproduction is the original). The watch I posted will never be confused for a Casio G-SHOCK by even the most undiscerning of purchasers. Also, not the same price point, and I think it overstates the matter to say that this purchase affects the market for the original. No one who wants and can afford a Casio original will go for this. I bought it at a time I could not afford the original and because I liked the style.
Bugxy
2065
Aug 21, 2017
richardfungI should add that "knockoff" is not a legal term. "Counterfeit" is, and is synonymous with knockoff. So if we apply a strict definition, most modern dive watches, to the extent that they copy the Rolex Submariner, are counterfeits. The reason they are not considered counterfeits is that no one would be deceived into thinking they are the original design. That is the important legal difference.
richardfung
7
Aug 21, 2017
BugxyI tried to stay away from saying whether the original watch was a counterfeit or knockoff because I don't know anything about Casios so I have no opinion on that matter.
I am not here to argue about legalities but merely to point out that another person also considers the definition of a knockoff to be the same as what I posted.
I agree that considering the difference in price, the market probably does not overlap. However, that doesn't mean there won't be a loss in sales. For example, some companies can charge more for products due their products having features which are exclusive, and one such potential feature is design. Having knockoffs might make the design less desirable if it's easily obtainable from much cheaper products.
The lawyer in the above post literally posted the definition of a counterfeit so I don't know what you're talking about. Most modern dive watches would not be in that category because they don't have Rolex on the watch? If you have a better source for a definition then feel free to share as I"m not a lawyer.
Bugxy
2065
Aug 21, 2017
richardfungAs I mentioned in the original post, the watch I posted is not a Casio and does not have Casio anywhere on it. In fact, I used the Rolex analogy in the original post but you felt compelled to address it as if I had posted a knockoff. Did not want to say this before but I am in fact a lawyer who teaches this stuff. I do know the difference between a counterfeit and a homage, and it comes down to what I described before.
richardfung
7
Aug 21, 2017
Bugxy> but you felt compelled to address it as if I had posted a knockoff
I'm not sure what I said which made you read it that way but I was actually trying to disagree with your definitions of knockoff, counterfeit, and homage.
> Did not want to say this before but I am in fact a lawyer
Unfortunately I don't fully understand how this is relevant given I was never trying to imply the legality of anything and you yourself said knockoff is not a legal term. Perhaps homage is?
> I do know the difference between a counterfeit and a homage, and it comes down to what I described before.
Again, I do not believe countefeit is the same as knockoff. Quote from wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterfeit_consumer_goods): " A "knockoff" is a colloquial term which describes products that copy or imitate the physical appearance of other products, but which do not copy the brand name or logo of a trademark. They may, or may not, be illegal under trademark laws."
Or in other words, not copying name does not imply not a knockoff.
I don't know why you keep trying to tell me what a homage is when I'm saying I disagree with your definitions. Unless there's some legal definition for homage which is different from the English definition (which is something along the lines of pay respects to as I posted earlier), using the same design for a cheap watch but without their logo isn't a homage. There's no respect being paid, it's just stealing of design in an attempt to make money.
Bugxy
2065
Aug 21, 2017
richardfungLet's agree to disagree. This debate is beside the point of my post.
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