HD6XX With Fiio E10K or Fiio A5 or Fiio Q1? | I saved a little...

HD6XX With Fiio E10K or Fiio A5 or Fiio Q1?

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Hamsterdrive

Jul 26, 2018

I saved a little more and got the ifi Idsd nano bl

Aug 6, 2018

HamsterdriveI ended up starting with the E17K. Wasn't happy. Sound was nothing like I expected from these phones. Could barely tell the difference when plugged directly into my iPhone 7 vs the E17K. Switched to the Q1 MK II and WOW what a difference. Specs are the same in terms of impedance (15 - 150 ohms) but the Q1 is clearly doing something different / better. Night and day. Even compared to a friends recording studio monitoring station and the Q1 MKII seems to get me like 80% of the way there. Very happy so far.
So, I'd say the Q1 MKII is a minimum requirement for these phones. The E17K (and likely the E10K) will play sound but by god you're missing so much.

LuckyLuke575

563

Mar 9, 2019

BriskoI have the same setup now (Q1 + 6XX), and very happy with the sound. Have you tried listening to the headphones through the balanced output? From my research, it should make a big difference, esp with a decent cable.

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Mar 9, 2019

LuckyLuke575I considered going balanced but found the information to be conflicting. Some people claim it makes a big difference but others say balance is only beneficial for really long runs with interference or something like that. Dug pretty deep too. Can’t recall details exactly (would need to check my notes) but it seemed not to be worth it especially considering the cost. In fact after doing some more listening and research I’m wondering if there was some kind of personal mental bias at play when I was comparing the E17K and the Q1 MK II. By all accounts they should’ve sounded the same and I’m wondering if I just wanted to Q1 to sound better because I liked it better. Could have been I didn’t have the volume set up exactly the same or there was some other factor aside from the amps themselves. Outside of my attempted A/B testing I definitely liked to push the Q1 louder with the knob because it sounds good and physically felt good. Maybe that introduced bias. Regardless, I definitely prefer the Q1 experience overall for lots of reasons. Build quality, interface (that sweet knob), etc. So even if they sound exactly the same I’m still more happy with the Q1.

LuckyLuke575

563

Mar 11, 2019

BriskoAs I read the technical specs, I think the Q1 should be the better device, even purely because it has a better DAC chip than the E17K (AK4452 vs PCM5102). But either way, its difficult to make objective comparisons when the performance is similar.

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Mar 12, 2019

LuckyLuke575Perhaps. Let me know if you go balance. Would love to know if you can notice an objective difference :)

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Mar 12, 2019

BriskoThe real benefit of balanced amps is that you get 2x the output power for a given rail voltage. Current won't scale in quite the same way though. Depending on the needs of your cans this can make a huge difference. HD 6XX is voltage hungry so balanced will definitely benefit it. The question is to what degree. To fully drive them you want 12Vpeak or more available on your outputs. With a balanced configuration you only need 6V+ rails. All this is the objective difference. It's measurable. What I believe you're actually asking about is whether someone will notice any audible change in sound from it. That's the subjective part and will vary from person to person. For my $0.02, I won't drive my HD 6XX with an amp that can't drive greater than 250mW through them. I don't believe there's a portable (much less mobile) amp on the market that can do that at this time.

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Mar 12, 2019

HeeftyGood explanation. I'm not an engineer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express. But more apt, I have a really great spreadsheet for my calcs, and the a5 was one of my first acquisitions in anticipation of receiving my HD6xx (second drop s/n 13467), so I have some numbers handy... 250mw would be ear splitting, given the 103db/V sensitivity. My calcs show they can get to 120dBSPL with 167mw. I use the a5 for mobile, and with its 14.96Vp-p (5.29Vrms), delivering 93mw with <0.3ohm output impedance, the a5 does a very good job. The a5 is an excellent mobile solution for the price and availability. I wish the f12 mont blanc was still around for the HD6xx. Headroom is what your after, I'd imagine. I do not perceive any issue with dynamics with the a5, nor do I ever perceive the a5 to be struggling with them. My $0.02... @Brisko and @LuckyLuke575 , I would bet that you'd be pleased with the balanced out of the Q1 MK2 (45mw vs. 11mw into 300ohms). You'd have much more headroom. The line out of the Q1 mk2 feeding the a5, makes for a decent upgrade path, given the products mentioned.

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Mar 12, 2019

CapnCookYep 167mW gets you just to 120dB SPL. Your spreadsheet must have stayed at Holiday Inn Express too. The additional 2V gives headroom to the transients. 167mW will cover you for lower listening levels (75-80dB SPL should be fine), but if you want to fully eliminate the harmonic distortion you get from driving too near the rails sufficient to cover your full 90dB SPL RMS level, you want some head room beyond that. You want more if you're listening to 24+ bit masters.

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Mar 12, 2019

HamsterdriveInteresting info @Heefty and @CapnCook. I have read that output only really increases volume and doesn’t change the sound properties. For me the output of the Q1 MK II is sufficient with my only sometimes turning on high gain to get enough volume out of whiter songs. So for me there are 2 questions 1) Will balance output improve sound quality? 2) If yes to question 1, will it improve quality enough to justify the cost (it’s seemingly expensive to do right especially if you go down the rabbit while of cable quality). Granted question 2 is very subjective and personalized but curious if question 1, on paper, is a very tiny amount or a theoretically noticeable amount for most people because that will dictate how question 2 is answered.

(Edited)

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Mar 12, 2019

HeeftyGood to know, I'll update the spreadsheet! But still, for someone who is pleased with the Q1, the a5 does nicely. I am not sure there are too many use cases where someone wants to go to 90 dB SPL RMS on the go. I do agree, that my desktop amp (5W) handles anything and everything with the HD6xx and just about anything else. Now, I am compelled to express concern for your long term hearing ;)

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Mar 12, 2019

BriskoLike I said before, I would bet you will like the result from going balanced, if getting the most out of the Q1 is your objective. I would expect a marked difference going to 45mw from 11mw. As for the rabbit hole, don't go too crazy with the cable. In my experience, the marginal increases (if any) above OFC copper won't show up on any of the amplifiers we're discussing. Expect a reasonable cost on the cable ($60 to $80). This will also set you up nicely for other amps in the future, using adapters, either for balanced connections, or even (again with an adapter) single-ended connections. It won't be an expense just for the Q1. The HD6xx just keeps getting better. That's been my experience.

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Mar 12, 2019

BriskoIt's all subjective. It's audio... I can't really answer either question for you. I know what my ears demand, but I don't have your ears handy to find out if it will be worthwhile. I can't image it not helping sound quality at the levels we're talking about, but there's still too many variables involved to give you a solid answer. From the objective side of things, you can have transients in tracks that can shoot up higher than 120dB peak from an 85dB listening level (this is an extreme case, but a good one. Find details in NwAvGuy's measurements) that same peak at 90dB listening level would reach 125dB SPL and thus be clipped by the 250mW amp I'm talking about. Don't let these numbers scare you. 120dB is very loud (rock concert kind of loud) but they are not sustained. They are very short transients. When you clip them off you get harmonic distortions in your sound. The easiest way to hear what that sounds like is to compare between a weak amp and a more powerful one. The trick, though, is that if you've never heard it, you don't know the difference. I can add that the statement on scalability of HD 6XX comes primarily from the voltage it takes to drive them. As you spend more on amps, they generally have higher output capacity. IMO, if you're already to the 250mW point on a cheap amp (can get them for around $100 these days without a DAC), though, the differences in sound on a more expensive amp are not as stark and you're to the point of things being subjectively better or worse.

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Mar 12, 2019

CapnCookI don't listen that loudly frequently or for long periods of time. I do find the mood sometimes though.

Mar 12, 2019

Heefty+1 to mood. I definitely understand :)

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