Dekoni Premium Earpads for Koss ESP/95X Headphones Discussions | Drop

Dekoni Premium Earpads for Koss ESP/95X Headphones

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Oct 24, 2019

I have been looking at a pad upgrade for my Koss 95x but was leaning towards the all leather sheepskin, however they do not seem to be available. Can anyone tell me the sound profile for these Fenestrated sheepskin over the original pad or solid leather. Thanks in advance.

Vote

Oct 24, 2019

ericleckeyI haven’t heard Fenestrated Sheepskin (FnSk) on these headphones, but I have heard a lot of pads on a lot of headphones. Generally the FnSk strike a balance between the natural openness of Velour and the more intense intimate sound of fully sealed earpads. It’s personal preference, but I almost always prefer FnSk over solid Sheepskin.

Oct 24, 2019

EvshrugThanks very much for the reply. Possibly my preference as well. I think I'll go ahead and try them. Thanks again.

g0ldl10n

121

Oct 24, 2019

ericleckeyI purchased the all leather ear pads from 'Fong Audio' and felt the all leather really added sibilance that was not there before. I quickly switched back to using the stock pads. I am taking a chance on these though, because so far all the Dekoni pads I've used have always been an upgrade from stock rather than diminishing the sound quality, especially for the Fostex TR-X00. I am really hoping these do not produce the same sibilance the all leather pads did.

Oct 24, 2019

g0ldl10nThanks for your input. I too was looking at the pads you mention but they were not in stock, from your comments good thing for me they were not available. I went ahead and pulled trigger on these. How did the all leather affect the low end on your 950s?

g0ldl10n

121

Oct 24, 2019

ericleckeyThe low end was noticeably more pronounced, which was nice, but the sibilance was bad enough that even after a short listening session, my hearing would have that dull almost muffled aspect to it when I took the headphones off. Not sure how else to explain it. Like, if you listened to white noise at a high volume for a period of time kind of feel. What I did to bring out the low end was send them off to Sonarworks to have them individually calibrated (which obviously the pad change will probably affect a bit, but we shall see), and wow, I did not even realize these were capable of the lows I am getting with this calibration. Not a commercial for Sonarworks, lol, but would recommend. Just very inconvenient having to send them to Latvia.. also, a bit scary since USPS did not allow me to purchase additional insurance shipping to that country for some reason. Hopefully someday, they add universal support for the headphone.

Oct 24, 2019

ericleckeyConsidering they only have the fenestrated option... I'd take that as the others don't measure as well.

(Edited)

Oct 24, 2019

g0ldl10nYes, I get what you are saying. That's interesting about the calibration. I will check into that. I do EQ mine using equalizer APO program and I am surprised how much low end these can handle, and clean lows at that. It really enhances the musical experience for me. Thanks again.

Oct 24, 2019

zep483Thanks for your input.

Oct 24, 2019

ericleckeyOne more quick note about the pads, I’ve never tried the Koss Velour, but the vinyl-like stock pads just felt shockingly cheap, and for me they were uncomfortable for a longer listening period. Almost any pad could feel better! And any sealed pad should cause more reflections, and the stock pads and the “Fong Audio” pads should both be sealed, so I’d wager @g0ldl10n‘s sibilance came from the treble still being reflected, but there must have been less of a seal between the pads and his head, and therefore less of everything else to balance out the treble and mask the sibilance. Here’s Dekoni’s video about Fenestrated Sheepskin in general: https://www.instagram.com/p/BxYwQRjg0ER/?igshid=1e5v7unn98p6o I’ll second @g0ldl10n when it comes to the EQ latitude of electrostats. Off topic story time! I was at CanJam NYC, where I first heard the Stax in the company's Separate room, but I also signed up for a private demo slot to audition the Smyth Realiser A16. The Smyth room was set up with monitor speakers in a Dolby Atmos configuration (sorry I don’t recall the brand), and the monitors + room acoustics produced a fairly warm sound while playing back a grunty Mad Max video clip. I was astounded how identical and nearly identical the normally bright and somewhat cold Stax was able to reproduce the rich, “big” bass, and overal frequency response of those speakers in that room. The surround imaging was as accurate as the speakers as well, but I was more surprised and impressed how well the sometimes “too fast” Electrostats could reproduce the dome dynamic roar of the speakers. Bvvvvvrooooom! If you saw my posts on Head-Fi (since 2009), Mad Lust Envy’s gaming thread (since 2010), and my “If I knew then...” thread/blog on Head-Fi, you’d know that I’ve delved pretty deep in testing EQs and Surround DSPs (collectively, it’s all digital signal processing). The Realiser A16 works similarly to Sonarworks in many respects: You measure the headphones (with mics in YOUR ears, connected to the A16), calibrate it to meet some target (in Sonarworks case, it’s very similar to the Harmon Curve and the Sennheiser HD 650’s frequency response, in the Smyth’s case the target is how your mic’d ears hear some speakers), and produces a DSP file that includes EQ parameters to adjust how other audio plays back. Of course, the A16 goes another step by saving room response, time delay, occlusion and convolution, so essentially if the speakers are a bit muddier than estats (what isn’t?) and a bit more distant from the seating position, the resulting calibration will sound that way too. One of the Smyth’s explained to me that the driver excursion might touch the stator or hit some other limit, but I didn’t hear that happening (at least at the volume-matched dB I was listening at). Of course, the Realiser took another four years to finish developing after that point, and now the release price is $4000 (I supported it on Kickstarter), so Sonarworks might be more practical for most people (even if the Smyth product is still the ultimate).

(Edited)

Oct 24, 2019

EvshrugFunny thing is that in my experience fenestration Sometimes has less bass and more treble than sheepskin... at least this is the outcome on the 58x and the he4xx... you might get less glare in the treble but you often get slightly more treble in the end. I like fenestration on some cans though, like the 6xx.... which gets muddy with sheepskin. You really often have to try them both... but here I bet we don’t want a seal due to the nature of estats...

Vote

LowFi42

263

Oct 25, 2019

EvshrugIt's completely different from headphone to headphone. Planars and electrostatics react differently due to front volume resistance et cetera.

Oct 26, 2019

LowFi42So, how would you think the perforated pads would affect the sound, coming from the solid vinyl Koss pads? I will grant that open headphones don’t create a pressure chamber the same way as closed headphones, but I think reflections will still have a small effect, as well as the depth of the padding. I do think listening is the final verdict, and I said in my first comment that I haven’t heard these yet... but I expect some physics to stay consistent. Feel free to explain your comment though, I’m always up for learning.

LowFi42

263

Oct 26, 2019

EvshrugPlanars and electrostatics usually aim to achieve a sealed front volume. This is important for producing better transient response, driver damping, and resultantly affecting sub-bass and mid-bass balance. A 'pressure chamber' has nothing to do with this. If drop is being lazy like dekoni here, the foam within these earpads will consist of a single layer. This compromises seal with the baffle, causing sub-bass to decrease slightly (also depending on density of the foam used). Proper design will have multiple densities of foam arranged in layers, increasing the closer to the baffle; as can be seen with ZMF pads. Providing the koss vinl pads and the drop pads have the same foam within (which is very unlikely), one would expect to see reduced sub-bass, elevated mid-bass due to the driver resonance moving upwards because of the damping on the driver being lowered, and a more 'natural' and 'spacious' higher end. Of course, like I mentioned earlier, it is impossible to properly gauge the difference between pads on different cans as every headphone is intrinsically designed and engineered individually and how they will react is completely up for grabs.

Oct 26, 2019

LowFi42Great information... thanks @LowFi42 and @Evshrug for both your comments. They are helpful! I wonder if @DekoniAudio has considered these things or would comment regarding them? Like is this the same memory foam as in all their products or different given these considerations? I'm sure they have thought of these factors (the fact that there is only one type of pad offered suggests that they have), but more information on them would be helpful to consider.

(Edited)

LowFi42

263

Oct 27, 2019

zep483Yes, they definitely should absolutely factor in these aspects, but from dekoni's perspective, they churn out so many pad variants that it would be very hard to individually tune them for their respective headphone. In fact, I don't think dekoni even cares or pays much attention to sound. The 'Blue', a 'modded' t50rp is perhaps the most abysmally tuned headphone I have ever listened to. I was absolutely dumb-founded when I heard them.

Oct 27, 2019

LowFi42Yeah it only took them 6 months+ to come out with this pad... they told me in April they'd be "ready in a few weeks."

Oct 27, 2019

zep483I bet they would like to respond, and perhaps they are preparing measurements too, but it has to be said, the tone here is not quite an environment where they can state their side. I don’t know everything about making pads, but I do know they’ve been working on these pads since at least this spring. Even if they don’t have different layers of memory foam density, the effort is not just a rubber stamp onto the Koss mount (because that should’ve been released much faster). WRT the Blue, no sound tuning is going to be for everyone because of personal taste. The Harmon Target Curve was proposed as a study into a sound signature that they theorized would be appealing to everyone... the frequency response is remarkably similar to the HD 650, and while it is widely popular, there are still detractors, so that seems to be evidence that personal preferences vary. The Blue definitely not neutral or close to the Harmon Curve, it’s quite bass strong, but at least they never claimed to be neutral and even tried to share measurements. I personally prefer the T50RP with lighter density foam baffles than the Blue used, but at the same time I have a few neutral and near-neutral headphones, so in a way the Blue is occasionally fun as something different, and not painful like I’ve found the DT 990 (my ear canals magnify the treble spike, so it actually hurts me to listen to that headphone, but I recognize others love it).

Oct 27, 2019

EvshrugWho loves the DT990? Crazy people? Masochists?

(Edited)

Oct 28, 2019

zep483Um, Beyer’s mom? But in all seriousness, I have a theory (just a theory) that people with opposite ears from mine, people with reduced sensitivity to treble who find other headphones lacking in treble, may relish in bright ones. I also think there is a correlation between those people and people that can fit Audeze’s iSine Planar IEMs... not because the iSines are particularly bright, but because the bore size is so wide (I can’t actually fit them into my ears comfortably even with the smallest tips). I’ve seen enough people who like what I consider extremely bright or extremely dark headphones (or “rollercoaster” headphones like from Audioquest and Clear Tune Monitors https://theheadphonelist.com/ciem_review/clear-tune-monitors-ct-6e-elite-review-strange-yet-fun-meet-lady-gaga-iems/ ) to believe that sometimes people like a niche headphone.

Vote

dekoni

477

Dekoni Audio

Oct 28, 2019

EvshrugWe actually do design each pad around the headphone, and go through many drafts to achieve different sounds. I'm sorry that Lowfi42 didnt' like the Blue tuning, We've received overwhelming positive response for the improved low end, in addition to the extreme comfort. Our pads for HD800, HD600 and HD700 have been widely regarded as improving the frequency reponse in all registers. That in mind, different people prefer different materials which affect the sound/listening experience, and I can't tune every material/pad and shape it so that its the same as stock, nor would I want to. If I did, the only improvement would be comfort (which is really important to Dekoni), but not the whole story. These were designed and tested (for about 10.5 months) specifically for the 95X. Ultimately we're tuning to our ears here @ Dekoni, and grateful and humbled that the Headfi community of the world enjoys what we do!

Oct 28, 2019

dekoniThanks for replying to this thread. I am glad to hear of your efforts in tuning these particular pads for the 95x. I look forward to the upgrade ! The original question in this post was how does the Fenestrated sheepskin affect the sound profile over the original velour pads on the 95x or over solid leather. But I never considered the variables of the foam type and density and how they may affect the sound profile. With that in mind and I know this as somewhat subjective but what was your goal in designing these Fenestrated sheepskin with the foam and density choice in regards to the headphones sound profile? Compared to the original pads? Were you able to attain the goal or get close to it ? Thanks again, and it's a privilege to have the manufacture to reply in this thread.

(Edited)

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