Drop 40L Backpack Designed by Dan Durston Discussions | Drop

Jun 25, 2020

Warning a lot, if you are an EU's customer, packages are shipped via ups and they will claims 56 € for clearance. So you have already payed delivery and UPS claimed again more. According to the EU and french law, for a package value less than 150 €, you have only 20% to pay on, if you add the folder fees from ups (18€), il will be 142*0.2 +18 = 46 € and not 56 € Do you have explanation @Drop ? Usually you ship via Dhl which is more honnest...

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Jun 25, 2020

regis101

113

Jun 25, 2020

gui3guiWell, we're in a global pandemic. Maybe they're trying their best to get the product distributed. My pack has been on the road for six days and seems to be stuck in SoCal. I'm in NorCal. I could have driven to NJ and picked it up faster. It is what it is.

Jun 25, 2020

Jomsal

Jun 25, 2020

gui3guiThanks for sharing. That will be about 45 USD for shipping and fees to UPS (to Norway). And then comes VAT. It’s just not worth it....

Jun 25, 2020

sikaheimo

Jun 26, 2020

gui3guiAnother EU customer here (Finland). Mine has yet to arrive, but at least the initial tracking is through DHL (Global/eCommerce, tracking number starts with GMxxx..). Was yours originally shipped through UPS, or did it change to it at some point? What I expect the final price to be: Backpack + shipping = 150 + 13.75 = $164 = 149.66€ 149.66 + 24% VAT (Finland) = 185.58€ No customs (2.7% for a backpack) as the item value is less than 150€.

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Jun 26, 2020

Jun 27, 2020

sikaheimoHi, I had the same problem as Guigui, living in France also. After hours of discussion with the French Customs, UPS, and Drop assistance, I might have nailed the issue. Drop.com receipt attached to the receipt is providing a total invoice amount (150$) but 0$ for freight. Freight can't equal zero for UPS and they gently replace it by 52 euros (approx 59$). Then taxes are calculated depending on the product cost + freight cost. Here : 136euros (product) + 52 euros (freight) *20% = 38 euros. This is still unclear, wether UPS is adding this 52 euros to annoy us or if it's mandatory. Of course they also charge a service 15 euros (approx 18$) and related taxes (4$). We should be able to get a refund if Drop.com could provide another receipt with the cost split accordingly between product and freight. Also I would recommend that Drop.com systematically attaches a receipt with the detailed freight cost in order to avoid that kind of issue and problem on our side.

Jun 27, 2020

Jun 27, 2020

sikaheimoAnd my initial tracking code was DHL, but it has never worked. I gave it a chance on UPS.com and it did work.

Jun 27, 2020

Tsachi

Jun 27, 2020

gui3guiSame with the shipping to Israel. UPS clearance fees were around $50. And including VAT and other customs fake charges on top of that - it's too expensive. In addition, the size is a bit small for me. I want to replace it with the bigger one, but paying the UPS charges again is out of the question

Jun 27, 2020

jpittier

Jun 27, 2020

GorodelExact same thing happened to me (France). I had to pay 50 euros in cash or the delivery man wouldn't give me my package. Not happy at all with UPS, not happy with Drop either because Drop forget to declare the shipping cost (~9euros) so the French customs allegedly looked for a public price for this kind a shipment and they estimated 60 euros ! So I had to pay VAT on those 60 euros, but I only paid 9 euros for shipment !

Jun 27, 2020

Jun 29, 2020

jpittier @gui3gui @Jomsal @sikaheimo @Gorodel @Tsachi @jpittier Sorry to hear about these issues and thanks for providing info/thoughts on it. It sounds like this is all the same issue, where because Drop did not list a shipping cost for the package, UPS decided to choose a shipping cost which was much higher than the actual shipping cost, which had the negative effects of (1) VAT being charged on that higher shipping cost, and (2) in some countries, pushing the package over 150 euro into a higher tax rate class. This European practice of charging VAT on the item + shipping is different from how things work in North America. Here, we pay taxes only on the items price, so people prefer that the shipping cost is not listed as that is sometimes erroneously included the taxed value, when it shouldn't be. I would hope that Drop would be able to figure out how to best handle this for different areas, but in this case it seems like the paperwork was filled out from a North American perspective, which ended up being problematic for how UPS does things in Europe. Is it possible to appeal these higher charges, since they are incorrect? When I have had tax issues in the past on a parcel due to incorrect taxed value, I fill out the appeal form and include a copy of my receipt, and then usually they issue a refund for the difference. If you need a receipt to do this, you can go to your "transactions" where there is a link to a receipt, like this:

And then when you click on that it takes you to a page you can print out showing the item cost and shipping cost, like this:

Jun 29, 2020

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tuukka.saarela

Jun 30, 2020

sikaheimoHere also customer from Finland. Don't hold your breath for the delivery, mine has been on route on DHL eCommerce crap delivery since 12th of June and now it is somewhere between Germany and Finland.

Jun 30, 2020

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Jul 1, 2020

dandurstonThanks @dandurston for the reply! I already sent the receipt to UPS, but that's quite a nightmare to get the money back. I'm quite disappointed by Drop's customers service : I raised the point a few days ago, but no answer so far. As this issue is impacting many of us, that would be great to solve this problem for the upcoming shippments

Jul 1, 2020

Jul 2, 2020

Gorodel @dandurston @sikaheimo @Drop @jpittier @Tsachi @Jomsal At last, I had an answer from Drop.com regarding my request. I'm afraid this is my last purchase as they are saying it's not their fault, we do have to estimate the customs fees and taxes on our side. They should be aware that by European law this is not legal not to split product and freights costs on the customs declaration. And listen a little bit their clients. If you want you can fill a complaint here : www.econsumer.gov

Jul 2, 2020

JordaP

Jul 2, 2020

GorodelSame ! Explained the situation to support in great length, twice. All I got in response « you have to pay VAT, please see with the customs office ». Anyway, not going to order any time soon.

Jul 2, 2020

Jul 2, 2020

JordaPYes, that's incredible. I can't believe they don't understand.

Jul 2, 2020

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hartvig

Jul 2, 2020

gui3guiThanks for the warning. Was thinking about ordering it (I'm in Norway), but I guess I'll stick with my Exped Lightning for now.

Jul 2, 2020

Vote

Jul 2, 2020

dandurston @Drop I'm a huge Massdrop fan, and I count a very large number of orders, not to mention the friends and acquaintances to whom I praised Massdrop's prices and after-sales service as well as on French-speaking forums. However, in this case I am extremely disappointed in many ways with Drop and this is why : - Firstly Drop includes the amount of shipping costs in the total amount, I do not know if this is for tax optimization, but to my knowledge any self-respecting seller, distinguishes between the price of the product sold and the shipping costs. This had little impact for me so far but justifying that this is common in the USA seems surprising if not untrue, but let's skip over that. - Secondly, Drop is aware that UPS is taking advantage of this to overcharge imaginary fees. Instead of refunding directly to their European customers who can prove it, and negotiate with far more leverage than a private individual with UPS, Drop does not respond to our alerts and tells everyone to fend for themselves (which is rather unprofessional). - Thirdly, Dan Durston, whom I respect enormously and thank you for his response, is advocating much the same thing. I was hoping for a little more from such a personality, that he could support our requests to Drop or UPS. - Finally, I understand that Drop doesn't necessarily have the choice of carrier, but why not use DHL, as he used to do for European customers? PS; I'm thinking of sending a mail to the DGCCRF (Directorate-General for Competition, Consumer Affairs and Fraud Control ) to report Ups' abuses.

Jul 2, 2020

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Jul 2, 2020

gui3guiThanks for further explaining the issue. I am a bit confused though. Here you are saying that "Drop includes the amount of shipping costs in the total amount" . So I think you are saying the problem is that the product cost and shipping cost aren't detailed separately. Previously I thought the problem was that Drop hadn't listed the shipping costs at all (only the product cost), which caused UPS to estimate shipping costs at a very high amount and thus charge more tax/fees. Here in North America we only pay tax on the products price - not shipping - so it is common not to list the shipping price. These two aren't normally combined here because then people would be charged tax on the shipping too. If we can clarify the problem here, I will continue to try to communicate it to Drop to resolve for future shipments. Can you please let me know if it is (1) shipping costs weren't listed at all, or (2) shipping and product costs were listed together. For shipments that have already been overtaxed like yourself, I don't think there is a way for Drop to appeal these charges for all shipments. I'm not sure because I don't have experience with commercial shipping, but it seems like when a package is overtaxed it is unfortunately the recipient that needs to appeal because they are the one that paid the tax. So the only way to get a refund would be to submit your receipt (see my previous post on how to get that) to UPS. Several people have appealed these charges by showing their receipts (see discussion here). UPS is slow to respond, but when people have appealed these taxes by sending in their receipt they are getting refunds in a few days, like this:

Jul 2, 2020

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Jul 2, 2020

Gorodel @Gorodel @JordaP I'm sorry the support wasn't more understanding of how the shipping and product costs need to be listed for Europe. I will try to follow up with them to communicate the problem. I am a bit unclear on it though because I'm hearing a few different things. Can you please let me know if the problem is (1) shipping costs weren't listed at all, or (2) shipping and product costs were listed together. As mentioned in my prior comment, it seems that people are getting refunds from UPS if they appeal, as discussed here.

Jul 2, 2020

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Jul 2, 2020

dandurston2) product and shipping were listed together. I managed to get a partial refund from UPS. But it literally took 2hours many phone calls and emails. That was not enjoyable. another thing is below 150 euros most European countries don’t apply taxes. But we all ended up with a 150$ receipt (mixing product and shipping) upgraded of estimated shipping (approx 56 euros). So we all had to pay taxes.

Jul 2, 2020

Jul 2, 2020

GorodelOkay so if I have this right: The product ($150 USD) and shipping (~$8 USD) were listed together (~$158 USD or 140 euro). At under 150 euro total, the VAT rate should have been lower and often not charged all all. But because the product and shipping costs were listed together, UPS didn't realize shipping was included in that amount so they added another ~56 euro to the amount of shipping? Bringing the total to about 200 euros where more VAT is charged because it's a higher rate and a higher value?

Jul 2, 2020

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Jul 2, 2020

dandurstonYes you got it perfectly :-) I’m a little bit upset by drop.com answer again. They should at least give away or reward or let us know they will correct this for the upcoming shipments. I’m awaiting a x mid tent and I’m fairly certain they will do the same mistake. their answer “Thank You for reaching back out to me. I would advise you to download your receipt off of their transactions page and show it to your customs office, to see if that will help at all. Unfortunately, there is nothing further I can do to help assist in the matter with the split of the product and freight cost. Once again, I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience due to this matter. Take Care,”

Jul 2, 2020

Jul 3, 2020

dandurstonThanks for your reply @dandurston. As said by @Gorodel, The product ($150 USD) and shipping (~$8 USD) were listed together (~$158 USD or 140 euro) by @Drop. But another point is that ups was paid twice once by massdrop for the ten dollars and after by us with the 56 €. So it's make a lot of illegal benefit for ups. I hope to get a partial refund from UPS. But I think, it will take a lot of time for a little amount of money. This is not enjoyable. By the way, I am not again pay taxes and custom fees but I am very angry against dishonest companies which overtax people. Furthermore, I am a bit upset by Drop and hope more comprehension for a company which should know the import/export cost and laws.

Jul 3, 2020

jpittier

Jul 10, 2020

@gui3gui Thanks for posting the image of your UPS invoice ! I double checked mine and in my case, Drop did not include the shipment cost in the "marchandise cost". In my invoice, "val march" (merchandise value, top right of the invoice) is 109,51 euros so that's exactly 120 USD. Yet, on the invoice, the "fret" (freight) line is blank (so 0). I called UPS twice and the 2 people I got were adamant: "the expediter did not detail the shipment cost, so UPS had to declare/give a price for the shipment to the customs office". So my case @gui3gui is a slightly different than yours, but the end result is the same: because Drop did not make the freight/shipment cost apparent, I got charge big extra amount.

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Jul 10, 2020