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Do these have the infamous Sennheiser Veil? I jumped on the 58x Jubilee’s and couldn’t live with the lack of energy in the high end?
Massdrop provides measurement graphs for both headphones, on their respective "Overview" page
yes. short and sweet answer.
Thank you, just what I was looking for.
Hmm the 58x are far more energetic in the high frequencies than the 6xx. The 6xx is the hd650 and it is known to be a warm smooth veiled headphone. The hd600 might be what your looking for, the 58x sits between the two and has a mixture of both 600 and 650.
I say it depends? If you are used to Beyerdynamic or Audio Technica AD series, yes the top end isn’t as bright. If you listen right out of a smartphone or cheap amp (remember, this used to be a flagship $500 headphone), that will dull the transient response and punchy dynamics of this headphone.
A little warm and smooth the HD 6XX is (not as much as some T50RP mods, Sony headphones, and others), but what I call “veiled” comes from hamstringing it with a poor amp. If you still think an HD 58X sounds veiled when connected to something like a Schiit Magni 3, THX-789 amp from here, Chord Mojo, or an iFi Micro BL, then I probably would say you won’t scratch your “unveiled” itch until you try a Stax or other electrostatic headphone.
Thanks for the reply - I’m going to pass on these.
Totally fair. If you found the HD 58X veiled, this would be in the wrong direction for you. Maybe a K7XX? Stax still are super sharp (even their base models), but you gotta get a special amp, etc.
I actually considered the AKG drop, but I think I’m going to hold off. I love my Beyerdynamic DT-990’s and 770’s; to me, this is the sound I would look for in a good set of speakers. I love to hear all of the detail in my music and the Beyers just do it for me. I know many find them bright, and I get that, especially with the 990’s but I am wow’ed every time I don them. I’ll have to pick up the 880’s at some point. Thanks again.
The Koss electrostat that are dropping right now are also something to consider... except their vinyl (yep vinyl, not leather or pleather) earpads feel remarkably cheap and really quickly cause me to sweat. They aren’t as bright as Beyer DT 990 (very few headphones are... maybe some ultrasones), but if you heard them I’m sure you would agree they are incredibly detailed and revealing. Total WOW factor.
Your ears and mine differ a bit, which is ok of course. I bought a 600 Ω DT880, because I thought I wasn’t treble sensitive like some other people, and I had read great things about their detail, imaging, “transparent tone,” and plush earpad comfort. I really wanted to love them, but their detail was only moderately highlighted more than my K712 Pro, and I found them to sound a bit “hollow” and the treble a bit coarse. About 40 minutes later of trying to get used to them, and I had my first experience with my ears ringing, so I promptly took a break (thankfully the ringing only lasted a minute). Eventually, after giving them a few tries, I returned them at the end of Amazon’s 30 day return window.
I was at a nice brick and mortar store and got to try a DT 990 and DT 1990 side by side in a quiet environment. Fairly similar tonal balance to each other but the DT 1990 (and DT 1770) stayed bright but managed to get rid of that coarseness in the DT 990 which was still present on a multi-thousand dollar Questyle Gold Reference stack. Definitely an overkill amp, voiced for the also bright HD 800, but I wanted to make sure the signal chain wouldn’t hold back either headphone.
Life is weird! My favorite beyers were my DT 880 Edition 600Ω. I used to enjoy them more than my T90, but now I'm noticing an annoying, metallic treble spike in the high mids/low highs that didn't bother me before, and I'm also noticing a hollow quality to them somewhere in the mids that escaped me all these months.
My DT 990 Pro have sharper upper treble, but do not have that lower treble spike that makes my ears want to ring. Because of my Army service, I get tinnitus sometimes when a high frequency triggers it, even if the volume is really low. So my tastes have changed. I like the T90 and DT 990 Pro more now!
Anyway, I'm on the fence between the DT 1990 and the Koss ESP/95X. I know, totally different headphones. I have varied likes, so I'm not biased to one sound signature in particular. I just want to cross tiers. Can you elaborate?
Oh boy... I’ve only heard the Koss at a CanJam, but it was mostly memorable for it’s plastic-feeling vinyl pads that didn’t sit against my head (there was a gap near my jaw). Working with them more, or giving them more time might have given me a better impression, but as it is I essentially would feel better recommending you read full reviews on it.
I do own a pair of Electrostat Stax, and I’ve heard Sennheiser’s HE-1 and HE-90 several times. Electrostat always blow me away... the driver membrane is so thin and light that it easily changes direction without any hesitation, making for an incredibly detailed and clean sound without any bloat around notes. Stax are generally considered to build on that effect with a bit of extra treble too... but it’s so smooth, it’s the kind of clean treble you can just turn the volume up and up and up... The Koss are supposed to be a bit warmer, perhaps more balanced. The Sennheisers just do everything you ever wanted a headphone to do and more than you imagined, leaving you stunned, lol! Estats are definitely a good choice for showing non-audiophiles music in a way they have never heard before.
I used to be a “Holy Grail Seeker” looking for the most refined version of the sound signature I liked “best,” and the DT 1990 might be a step along the “Grail Trail” for you. It’s generally very similar to the DT 990 that you really like, just a little more refined. The DT990 is only slightly different from the DT 1990, which makes the 1990 a good value I guess, but for me that difference made all the difference between me finding it a bit harsh and enjoyable. Personally, as a guy with over 25 headphones (I tried counting off the top of my head, and gave up around 27), I value something a little more different. The Koss definitely is different, and considering you are getting a “system” with an amp and the headphone it is a great value for the performance at hand. I do think reading reviews about it would be worth your time. I heard @DekoniAudio is prototyping pads to see if they can improve on the stock pads.
As an aside, the HD 660 S from Sennheiser seemed less wooly and more detailed to me than the Amiron when I specifically went to compare them head to head in October (at RMAF), even without having the hollow-bright Beyer house signature. My favorite Beyer was the T51p, as an “on the go” compact closed headphone (but I don’t own one).