Sennheiser HD 820 Closed-Back Headphones Discussions | Drop

Sennheiser HD 820 Closed-Back Headphones

Showing 1 of 64 conversations about:

ShaunLee

Jun 10, 2020

https://en-us.sennheiser.com/high-end-headphones-audiophiles-hd-820 if Drop sells a product the same price as the official website (I believe there are some other sites selling it for cheaper, Canada official website sells it for cheaper as well), i dont know what's the point for Drop to open? is it just a hifi discussion forum?

Not_M477

Jun 10, 2020

ShaunLeeYou get about $300 in drop points I think so there’s that

Griploc

Jun 11, 2020

Not_M477Which Canadian website is selling it cheaper?

Vote

Jun 11, 2020

ShaunLeeSennheiser has MAP pricing in the US, so everyone is running the same sale at the same time. Difference here, on drop, is that Drop is giving $300 worth of reward points on top of the $400 off sale that ends on June 21st. This is the lowest price yet on a new HD 820 from an authorized seller. Edit: Regional pricing around the world is a very complicated issue. In regions without MAP (like Europe, and maybe Canada?), individual retailers decide their own promotions and timing. Though sometimes Sennheiser helps provide some guidance (high volume sales timing, sometimes suggesting coordinating promos), the final price is still up to the individual retailer in those situations.

(Edited)

whatacar

Jun 11, 2020

ShaunLeehttps://baybloorradio.com/sennheiser-audiophile-hd820-headphones- sells it for $2600 Canadian when Drop price is $2,683 Canadian.

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interesting_username

Jun 11, 2020

ShaunLeeYes, this isn't a members price at all. Amazon US has these for $1999 prime shipping too.

Vote

ShaunLee

Jun 11, 2020

Evshrugi admit what you say is true. But if massdrop sold hd650 for $499 as other authorized dealer, instead of collaborating with manufacture to produce hd6xx for $199, this site would have died six years ago.

Jun 11, 2020

ShaunLeeI agree the HD 6XX was a huge benefit to Drop. Even though Sennheiser lowered production costs with cheaper accessories (shortened the cable, no other accessories, cheaper packaging), they still had to raise the price a little to $220 (though I think, right now, that headphone is enjoying increased rewards points too). The going rate for the HD 650 at the launch of the HD 6XX was either $400 or $350 though, so it was just like a $200 or $150 price difference at the time. The HD820 itself is expensive to produce... the driver is of a much higher tolerance (and lower yield), the enclosure has all these fiddly bits that require expensive tooling and hand finishing (done in Germany) and is the main reason why the cost is usually $700 higher than the HD 800S. I suppose Sennheiser could do a unique colorway, not include the protective storage case, not include the balanced cable, shorten the 6.5mm (1/4 inch) single-ended cable, make the retail box smaller to make shipping cheaper, but honestly I think that would only add up to about a $300-400 price difference. That would also put the still pricey headphone at greater risk of being damaged in shipping, and present a greater chance for them of having to pay for replacement. Though I love my super short 4ft (1.2m) balanced HD 800 cable because I use mine at my desk, I think most users would want the longer cable for the HD 820 (and I still have my stock HD 800 cable for that reason). For a Top Of The Line headphone, I just don’t think these compromises would be what people would want for a relatively meager $300-$400 savings. I could be wrong, but I think the current deal here of $700 savings ($400 off MSRP + $300 Drop rewards) is the best we’re going to see unless Sennheiser designs a whole new model with more sound quality compromises. With that said, I do think there’s a nice spot in their portfolio to try to make a closed HD 660S, which would cost a bit more than the open model but would probably please many people!

(Edited)

brownsox

Jun 11, 2020

EvshrugDo you work for Sennheiser?

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ShaunLee

Jun 11, 2020

Evshrugthank you for your reply, but I am afraid i have to say it is totally off topic.

hd6xx and hd650 price differnce. as you mentioned, it is 200 vs 350. so a collaboration model is around 40% less with some cost-cutting mod (no problem!). if drop could make a hd82x and price is at $1200. Nobody will say a word about it at all. Increasing the price of hd6xx does not mean it is actually cost more. In my opinion, I think the most probable reason is that Drop increased its margin or changed its bussiness model.
Emphasizing how hard to make a hd820 doesnt justify drop sells the same price as other retailers. The costy parts are reflected by the price of hd820. My point is that Drop didnot even TRY to colloarate with manufacture to make a cheaper mod FOR its members.
I am not blame Sennheiser here although I dont like their product (the IE500 pro I bought last month is !@#$#%). I am bashing Drop because dumping all the skus to the website which are sold the same prices as elsewhere (some of the chi-fi products are even more expensive than in aliexpress) definately deviates the original purposes when Drop was created.

Jun 11, 2020

brownsoxI am not a Drop employee, but I have been a reviewer and several companies have asked me to consult for them. Simply put, I don’t have a stake in selling headphones, so I am very careful not to tell people what to do... I’ve been part of Massdrop and Head-Fi for a lot longer as a hobbyist and enthusiast. When it comes to individual products, I think it’s much more useful to get an understanding/description of what something is, so people can make their own decisions. And I think it’s important to share with companies what people are talking about, what they want!

(Edited)

Jun 11, 2020

ShaunLeeYou’re right, I was looking around a lot of comments on Drop yesterday, and I mixed in your comment with many others that were asking for an HD 82X or an HD 8XX. I see you meant that the collaborations are more appealing to you than straightforward sale promotions. Otherwise it’s similar to Moon Audio or Headphone.com. Right? So, with that in mind and your other reply, yes I agree it’s possible and would be interesting if Sennheiser produced a high-performance closed headphone targeted at a $1200 price. To realistically reach that price, some things about the design would have to change from the HD 820 design, but it would be interesting since there’s a big gap between the HD 820 now and the next closed headphone below it in the lineup.

(Edited)

JonnyModena

225

Jun 13, 2020

EvshrugWhile I agree with most things you mentioned, I don’t believe that Senn would have to change anything at all to make the HD 820 profitable at $1200. It’s a headphone. Slightly more advanced than the HD 650/660, a $200-$500 can. No gimmicky tech can justify this headphone being set at a “necessary by cost incurred” retail of $2000+. I’m not claiming to be an expert or in the headphones industry, but I’ve been a business owner who has purchased name brand electronics at wholesale for 17 years. So I can’t subscribe to that notion. I do, however, subscribe to the idea that people who have the money have the right to buy any product they wish, regardless what others think about its cost/value ratio. And these types of products are aimed at those people. Being that that market is out there, it makes sense that Senn and others would create a product they know they will take advantage of and price that product accordingly. But I think in all actuality, aside from initial R&D costs related specifically to this product (which are in the past and now paid for many times over), Senn could profitably sell the HD 820 as it is today for $400 or less. Being a flagship level product, a good price point for it would be $1000 even.

Jun 13, 2020

JonnyModenaOk, you explained your background and position very well, which will help to explain things from within your framework. Thanks! I totally respect where you’re coming from and the knowledge that would give you. As a a distributor/retailer of electronics you know that some products have better margins than others. For a long time, the HD 600 and HD 650 (and original 1990’s HD 580) driver was the best Sennheiser could make, and while they could have changed the tuning and sold it as “better” (which is sort of what the HD 650 was, but it was priced about the same), they already had achieved the tuning they wanted and they didn’t want to use some “gimmick” that didn’t serve a benefit. This is where your “it’s a headphone” comment was correct, and a long time passed that Sennheiser couldn’t something significantly different that would surpass that “heart” developed for the HD 580. But you’re assuming the HD 820 is really cheap to make, about the same as the HD 6XX, and the additional cost to make a closed headphone that still sounds open are inconsequential, and then that the higher price is just an appreciation of “art” or perceived value... that’s a lot of assumptions. I don’t know the margins exactly, but I do know that the HD 800S and HD 820 actually have far worse margin than the HD 650 and HD 600. A sub $1000 HD 800S simply by slicing margin is not reasonable, less so an HD 820. It’s not just better design due to R&D, but they simply cost more to make and have a lower successful production yield due to the increased complexity – we can’t get something for nothing. With that being true, there is a lot of hard evidence out there and maybe watching some of the factory tour videos, design seminars at trade shows, and patents submitted might satisfy the truth-seekers. I do think you hit on another really good point to consider. The HD 650 and 600 are very good headphones, better than headphones using off the shelf parts made from automated processing, and people love them. So, like you were indirectly implying, any additional cost of adapting the closed-back R&D to the 820 to an HD 6XX would easily be amortized in a short time. The HD 820 represents two things:

sealing an open headphone with less compromises than arguably ever before, and
Sennheiser’s “all the stops pulled Flagship” or “best headphone” (closed).

The first aspect might be possible at a lower price, quickly, using the existing HD 6XX or something as a base. Sennheiser has done it before. The HD 660S is kind of inbetween the two lines because it shares some parts commonality with the HD 600 while using a cheaper to produce version of the techniques used in the HD 800S (and HD 820’s) acoustic dampening to give it better “snap” and almost no decay, a good example of using the R&D innovations of the flagship while bringing the cost down and being honest enough to not say it was just the flagship at a cheaper price (because it’s not quite as good a performer as the HD 800S, in several ways, though some people might prefer its presentation anyway). Sennheiser also tried to make an HD 800-esque headphone at a lower cost with the HD 700 (you could consider that an HD 8xx, but not platform exclusive), but I feel the HD 660S achieves that goal much better. So, Sennheiser could try to do the same with a closed headphone, maybe a closed version of the HD 650 or HD 660S, using the backwave-cancellation and bass tubes research done for the HD 820, and they could even make it mostly look like and HD 820 on the outside, and I think that could sound excellent, cost less to purchase, and be very satisfying for most of the people who want an “HD 82X” for the reason of wanting a closed headphone that sounds (almost) like an open one at a lower price. ... Side note: in all these Drop collaborations, I don’t think Drop is sharing design notes on improving Sennheiser performance. They provide a distribution channel, marketing, a user base, and maybe like me they share the trends and projected preferences of customers based on the polls and discussions here. It made a lot of sense with the HD 58X Jubilee, but Sennheiser is a company independent of Drop. If Sennheiser develops a hit product, it can be expensive and lost potential sales if they only sell on one store that not everybody knows about.

(Edited)

jkhmonkey

Jun 20, 2020

EvshrugI'm going to take a guess here, and by that a complete shot in the dark, but Sennheiser may also be reluctant to Drop making a "budget" HD8xx due to issues of the worth of brand recognition among the public. Companies want to have a super-high end product to show off their technical expertise and quality. It's the psychology of a common consumer where if they see good reviews and feedback of the company's high-end products, they would assume that the more budget offerings that's more within their price range would also be of high quality. They may want to avoid degrading this view by allowing budget versions of their luxury items. Until Sennheiser released a new flagship that they consider to be better than their 800 series, I would be surprised to see a collab. I would say this is similar to how Apple almost never allows any substantial discounts on their products (at least in Canada; maybe you folks in the US have a better chance of getting deals). They want their brand to be seen as a company that produces high quality, luxury items, and this marketing strategy has worked out very well for them. Other examples would be car industries with the prototype models, or limited edition models that nearly nobody will be able to afford, or the cutting edge TV technology shown off at trade shows, that once again, not many people would be able to afford.

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