Infinity ErgoDox Ergonomic Keyboard Kit Discussions | Drop

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Infinity ErgoDox Ergonomic Keyboard Kit

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Infinity ErgoDox Ergonomic Keyboard Kit

Olson.dev

Mar 31, 2015

The traces on the PCB look like spaghetti. They used to be grid-like. Why the change? Cost? Latency improvements? Just curious because it kinda looks ugly.

nikchi

Mar 31, 2015

Olson.devless material used. the shortest paths are usually the most direct ones.
source: pythagoras.

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ferretwithaspork

Mar 31, 2015

Olson.devTotally agree! I just saw that pic a second ago and was like "woah.. I've never seen such disorganized circuitry before"

Maeth

Mar 31, 2015

Olson.devAs an electrical engineer, I can say that the layout is super sloppy. It looks like someone used a crappy autorouter in layout design software to do the work for them. This, and also the displaced silkscreen printing/solder mask layer makes me thing this is probably just a test prototype. Hopefully they don't ship this!

OlivierPons

243

Mar 31, 2015

MaethCriticizing builds has always been easier than building. Do something on your own, or if you criticize, be more constructive: what is wrong, how you would have built this or that and why.

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OverKill

517

Input Club

Mar 31, 2015

OlivierPonsNo worries. We are big boys we can handle it.

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metta

Mar 31, 2015

MaethI completely agree - I've made similar comments on the Infinity keyboard kit, the layout is completely sloppy. I'm very skeptical that USB 3.0 layout guidelines have been addressed if the rest of the layout looks the way it does.

Parak

Input Club

Mar 31, 2015

mettaThis does not use USB3 internally or to the PC, but rather USB2. The data lines are still length equalized, just like on the infinity. The extra pins of USB3 are used for the interconnect, and are unused when connected to the PC, nor does it cause any issues on a native USB3 port, if you're wondering.
I'm well aware of arguments against autorouters, but again, unless you can present specific concerns about its use in a low frequency design like a keyboard, there's nothing wrong with using one. In fact, there's less impedance matching concerns with rounded traces being constant length instead of where they are not using regular 45 and 90 degree corners. Keep in mind that one doesn't simply shove a design into an autorouter and call it done - there's always extra work involved in properly making correct rules, keepouts, making sure it doesn't do weird things, and so on.
For various reasons that I can't go into yet, the design and pin count is much higher and the layout more compact than for the original ergodox. There are a lot of vias, and hand routing this would have been a completely unnecessary nightmare for every board prototype (of which there were a few already, of course).

Olson.dev

Mar 31, 2015

ParakThanks for the info. Are you implying the final version will be hand routed?

metta

Mar 31, 2015

Trust me, as an electrical engineer, if you're going to want to use USB 3.0 for anything using that standard you *have* to follow layout guidelines as set by the standard. But it sounds like the USB 3.0 connectors are not being used for USB 3.0 so I concede that point.

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metta

Mar 31, 2015

ParakThank you for the clarification, I concede my comment regarding the USB 3.0 guidelines. I thought it was being used as a hub or something.
And yes, you're absolutely right about there being little to no issue since this is for the most part a low frequency device. My concerns with a layout like this one vs. a more disciplined hand-laid one are more along the lines of design re-use, via-count, and schematic/PCB variants. It's just easier in high-volume manufacturing situations.

HaaTa

558

Input Club

Mar 31, 2015

mettaLol, yeah, using true USB 3.0...my god the nightmares. When the time comes we'll be doing our due diligence :D
USB 3.1 is something I'm very interested in btw, but connector/cable availability has been basically cannibalized by Apple at this point.

Parak

Input Club

Mar 31, 2015

Olson.devIt's unlikely, but at the very least there will be some minor changes relating to a few other paired trace lengths and impedances that I'd like to equalize for the shipping version.

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metta

Mar 31, 2015

Haha I don't disagree, but you'll have to convince someone else; It's just what it's referred to as in the industry.
e.g. http://www.usb.org/developers/presentations/pres0311/2-4_SSUSB_DevCon_DesignGuidelines_Heck.pdf

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Olson.dev

Mar 31, 2015

ParakCool. Thanks for the transparency.

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mattysiebs

Apr 2, 2015

MaethI really do hope that the traces are more well laid out myself. Otherwise, I will need to find a manufacturer to make the PCB out of the source gerber files. Yikes

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