KBD66 Custom Mechanical Keyboard Kit Discussions | Drop

KBD66 Custom Mechanical Keyboard Kit

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Apr 20, 2017

Please don't buy these board with inverted switches. End the stupidity

eizdeb

474

Apr 20, 2017

PixelPusherXXInverted switches?

megabyte

Apr 20, 2017

PixelPusherXXIs this because of the PCB? Can't I mount the switches the "right" way?

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Apr 20, 2017

eizdebSwitches with the leds at the top (logo upside down). Not fully compatible with Cherry profile keycaps.

Apr 20, 2017

megabyteYes, it is because of the PCB. The pins will only allow for the switches to be inserted upside down.

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megabyte

Apr 20, 2017

PixelPusherXXOk, so there is no way to use this PCB with GMK caps, even if I don't want LEDs? Can I cut/trim the switches somehow so that they don't interfere with the caps?

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Apr 20, 2017

megabyteWell, you can use it, yes, but how picky are you? Me? I enjoy these keyboards as a hobby. I like the idea of a premium, customized keyboard. You CERTAINLY CAN use a GMK set on this board, but it's not perfect. That home row won't clack right. It's very subtle, but it's there.
It's like getting a nice new car with a dent on the bumper. You never see it while you're driving and lot of people will probably not notice it, but YOU know it's there and it makes the car feel less to you.
No, you cannot trim the switches. I tried sanding them down ever so slightly and it didnt help. I even went to the point where I sanded a thin hole and it still made contact. I'm not willing to sand the keycaps, but you could try that.

megabyte

Apr 20, 2017

PixelPusherXXI see, thanks for explaining. Do you know if Zealio switches have the same problem? (I assume Zealios are compatible with this PCB right?)

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Apr 20, 2017

megabyteYes, Zealios switches use Gateron housings. Same dimensions as Cherry and same issues.

Apr 20, 2017

PixelPusherXXWhat are you on about? There are 0 problems with cherry profile caps with north-facing LED configurations. The issue is when you add Zealencios since the bottom of the cap isn't shaped correctly for the opposite-facing part of the switch. I've owned multiple north-facing LED boards and have had 0 issues with any rows having different sounds.

catweewewe

Apr 20, 2017

PixelPusherXXWhat switches are you using?
If you're using milky gaterons yes, but if you're not they're going to be fine.
As for LEDs just use 2x3x4 or 1.8mm.

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Apr 20, 2017

Berzerker7I've tried 4 GMK sets and 2 EnjoyPBT sets. I've tried on Gateron switches, Cherry switches, Panda Linears, and even some Aristotle switches. The problem was present on each board. I've been in several forums where people think I'm crazy and then come back a day later and say (oh crap, you're right. I never noticed) It is very subtle, and only on the home row that I have noticed.
The feeling of reduced clack is similar to unclipped cherry stabilizers. It's extremely subtle, but it is there on all of the setups I have tried.
The boards I found it: GH60 Satan(revCHN) - one with Gateron Black and one with Aristotles Coolermaster Rapid-i with Cherry Blue Coolermaster Masterkeys Pro S with cherry red Pok3r RGB with Cherry brown, Pok3r (non led) with Cherry Blue (swapped out for Gateron Green and still present)
The keycaps I used were: GMK Dolch (from Ivan's GB) GMK Hydro GMK Monkey GMK Skidata + EnjoyPBT red on beige EnjoyPBT blue cyrillic
I suppose it's possible the issue is with specific keycap sets, but I find that unlikely.
I have no issues on these boards when using: Ducky Thick PBT Vortex Thic PBT SP DSA dyesub, doubleshot, or blanks, SP SA profile both dyesub and doubleshot WASD custom sets and obviously no issues with the OEM caps that come on the boards

Apr 20, 2017

PixelPusherXXAnd I've been on forums where people claim what you do, get called crazy and then come back and say "hmm it seems to have gone away." Convenient.
Your issue is placebo from the first time of you "noticing it." There are no problems with any Cherry Profile caps on north-facing LED-oriented switches if you're not using 2x3x4 LEDs or Zealencios.
And please don't crusade to dissuade people from joining a group buy because you have an issue that doesn't actually exist.

Apr 20, 2017

Berzerker7Why would I make this up? I have nothing to gain from persuading people to not join this group buy. I am trying to inform people who might not know or have the resources to find out. I am lucky to have the money to buy dozens of keycaps and dozens of keyboards and kits.
The Massdrop community is (hopefully) here to help inform each other. I'm trying my best to inform others who might care as much as I do.
I am simply stating my informed, tested results.
Even my co-workers and wife can feel the difference on bottom out with upside down switches on cherry profile caps. It certainly isn't placebo. Also, it has nothing to do with the LEDs. It is the switch housing.

Apr 20, 2017

PixelPusherXXI can't guess at why people do the things they do. It's always a mystery to me.
> Please don't buy these board with inverted switches. End the stupidity
That hardly sounds like someone who is "just trying to inform people" of something. You clearly have some ill-conceived thoughts about something like this, and it's not conducive to building a community to outright label a design choice as "stupidity."
If you don't want to buy it because of issues you've personally experienced, then, by all means, save your money. But don't spout this nonsense, while also not giving any evidence originally, to try and hivemind others into your thought-process.

Apr 20, 2017

Berzerker7I want to stop manufacturers from continuing this practice. Especially if GMK sets are going to continue to be so popular. It's personal to me because it ruined my collection once I found out.
Once again, you don't notice it unless you look for it. But, similar to unclipped stabilizers, once you know it's there, it's quite annoying. To test, just slowly bottom out the key. Don't go all crazy and type 140wpm to hear it. Be subtle and slowly press until you hear the clack. Now try it on the row above (or below). It WILL sound different.

Apr 20, 2017

PixelPusherXXI'll go out on a limb and say that since you're the only person who has ended up complaining, after countless people have bought and built with boards like the GH60 Satan, which has north-facing LED switches, and use GMK cap sets all the time on those, that your problem is an isolated, personal one.
Again, you doing nothing but calling something "stupid" is not productive and doesn't help.

Apr 20, 2017

Berzerker7I guess I'm going to have to try and get some recordings of my tests. One thing that I can further offer to the community on this subject is some factual evidence.

Apr 20, 2017

PixelPusherXXThat would be nice. However, you're not still not going to offer anything *on this board*. Let people have issues if there are actually issues, then the process can be rectified in the future with changes. You have no idea how this board performs or what kind of quality comes along with it. Even "evidence" you'd provide would be relevant to only your specific products, not this one.

Apr 20, 2017

Berzerker7The issue is with the placement of switches and keycaps, right? So if I test on a PCB with upside down switches it should have the same results as this keyboard when fully assembled (assuming the user had similar switches and Cherry profile keycaps)

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Apr 20, 2017

PixelPusherXXNo because as I explained before, many people are not having the same issue as you are.

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Apr 20, 2017

Berzerker7Doodled is completelty right and it is "not" a placebo, even with zero LED's installed Cherry profile keycaps will hit the housing slightly making the keyfeel mushy compared to if the switches were mounted with south facing LED's. Some people dont pay enough attention to detail to notice it, but if you do then the ununiforn keyfeel will probably bug you. 2x3x4 LED's still cause interference with Cherry profile caps unless you sand them down, 1.8mm LED's are the only solution if you dont want to sand the LED's.

Apr 20, 2017

itsluigiI'm sorry, but you're just not correct. If you were, there would be scores of people complaining on GH and reddit but there just aren't. It's not an issue.

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Apr 20, 2017

Berzerker7Actually i am 100% correct, you can ask many designers of Koreans customs yourself if you dont believe it. Its subtle but its there and will make R4 feel slightly more mushy than the rest if you test it especially on tuned linears. Some people just simply dont pay enough attention to detail or care. For example theres plenty of people using GMK on stock Pokers and their perfectly happy but the difference is still 100% there, some people just dont pay attention to things like that. For this reason Korean made PCB's mount the switches with south facing LED's.

skabei

232

Apr 20, 2017

PixelPusherXXWhy do some keyboards orient the switches this way? Does it make it easier? I was thinking of doing GMK on a WhiteFox with Zealencios.. but... now I'm reconsidering

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Apr 20, 2017

skabeiIt is for keycaps with shine-through legends. The legends are at the top of the keycap, so putting the LED directly behind the legends looks better.

skabei

232

Apr 20, 2017

PixelPusherXXThat's the main reasons? Omg...

Apr 21, 2017

Berzerker7http://i.imgur.com/xUZnlan.png Lol clearly you're in denial. Ask a reputable PCB designer for Korean customs they will tell you the same ;)

Apr 21, 2017

itsluigiAppreciate the stalking, have fun with your broken boards though, no one here will experience that...

Vote

Apr 21, 2017

Berzerker7Not stalking, im apart of the Discord as well, its not a private server you know and your sitting in lounge the most public channel which is the first thing people see. "Broken" boards what are you talking about? I'm simply stating the facts that expert keyboard designers take into account when designing a PCB.
Lol http://i.imgur.com/AdyK1cj.jpg

Neralo

132

Apr 21, 2017

itsluigiI find it very intriguing how you just keep taking screenshots instead of you know, talking on the discord.

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Apr 21, 2017

itsluigiIm glad to see someone else talking about this. I know I'm not making it up. I was very surprised when I found out because, as others have pointed out, it seems strange that no one seems to have noticed. But it really is an issue.

Apr 25, 2017

Berzerker7Why are you so in denial of this? Is it because you only own north facing switch boards and can't bear to admit there might be a difference between south facing ones and second guess your inventory? It's okay man, we can get through this.
There's clearly an issue here and it's been reported by multiple different people on different forums through the years. Whether people notice it or not is a whole different question.
You kind of come off as a climate change denier in your posts, clearly ignoring the facts.
Will anyone really notice or care about this? Probably not a lot, but there IS a difference. Just because it's not large enough in your opinion doesn't mean you should just blatantly deny it.
Quit acting like this is isolated and Doodled is some crazy outlier.

Apr 25, 2017

schoolbusEasy to deny something that doesn't exist.
I don't see any point in arguing this. You're stuck in your ways and nothing I say will change your mind.

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Apr 25, 2017

Berzerker7I don't understand why you're so passionate about this? Do you work for a company that specializes in north facing switch placement?
Like okay, you can take the stance that you don't think it's a big deal- but it's still a "thing that exists" so it's just kind of baffling to see someone in such denial about the truth.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=83570

Apr 25, 2017

schoolbusLol did you even read that thread? Most of the replies said they don't have any problems.

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Apr 25, 2017

Berzerker7I did read the thread, and Tactile sums it up best: "Yep. And on both my Cherry set & the PBT set I mentioned the interference is apparently slight because even across the A-S-D-F row, most will hit the switch top and some won't. Everything works, it just feels like some keys have o-rings installed and some not."
It's an issue that will happen and some may or may not notice it. But it does exist.

schoolbushttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking

Apr 25, 2017

Vote

Apr 25, 2017

Berzerker7you're a pretty funny & delusional individual.
Best of luck though, maybe you can focus your denial efforts on something that actually doesn't exist.

Apr 25, 2017

schoolbusMe too thanks.

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