Drop + Dan Durston X-Mid 1P Tent Discussions | Drop

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Apr 23, 2019

Hi Dan, what is the deign intent for the guylines? Can you post a pic, including the other loops that someone else noted? For A-frame tents they usually are intended to run along the ridgeline but I see people pitching them slightly off. In my experience this causes noticeable sag in the fabric. Speaking of sag, what about the aux guylines that attach in what is normally the door roll-up loop? The only way I have been able to make this work is with some type of a lifter (branch, etc), otherwise the pulldown force sags the entire panel that the guyline is intended to reinforce.

dandurston

5116

Dan Durston

Apr 23, 2019

GrandPoobah1I'll preface this by saying that additional guyouts points like the peak guylines should only be added once you have a nice pitch using only the 4 corner stakes and two poles. Sometimes I see people compensating for flaws in the core pitch using the additional stake out points but these should only be used to beef up the tent for tough weather, not correct problems in the basic shape. With the basic pitch I am seeing about an equal number of issues arising from either the rectangle not being square and the poles between too tall. The former gives a wonky shape with some wrinkles, while the latter gives sides that are loose in the middle. Once you have a good basic pitch, the ideal orientation for the peak guylines is off to one side (the door side) because unlike an A frame, the X-Mid isn't symmetrical around the ridgeline. Rather, the ridgeline is anchored more strongly on one side from the shallower angle corner seam. Thus, the peak guyline gets angled towards to the other corner seam to help out support the steeper corner on this side. Looking at the diagram below, the upper peak is anchored well from the top left corner because this is a shallower corner seam but not as well by the top right corner because this is a steeper corner (like a cellphone tower, the further away you stake the lines the stronger it is). So the peak guylines go a bit off to this steeper corner side so it pulls out on the guyline and beefs up this side:

The diagram above shows what I find works well but it might be a bit excessive to have the guylines this much off to one side. Staking the peak guylines out straight along the corner seam (which is slightly to the right of the ridgeline) would likely work just as well. Partly this depends on the situation (e.g. wind direction). If you expect a broadside wind you'd want it more to that broad side. Folks seem to be getting a get pitch with the peak guylines anywhere in this range. For example, here is a good pitch with the guylines quite far off center (almost at the door zippers), yet here is a good pitch with them straight off the ridgeline. The former would be better in a broadside wind. It's also worth noting that adding stakes at the door zippers also supports the peak from the steeper side, so less of an offset peak guyline is needed if you've also staked the door. Overall, an 8 stake pitch (4 corners, 2 peak guylines, 2 door zips) should be quite robust even for rather windy conditions. I will discuss additional guyout options beyond this but I want to emphasize that this should almost never be necessary. Beyond that 8 stake pitch, there are 4 grosgrain loops (one near the mid point of each side) and then there are the door tie loops you mention. The 2 grosgrain loops at the bottom of the smaller end walls work well because there is a straight line of material between them and the peak, so they can support the peak without distorting the shape of the tent. Feel free to use these, with the caveat that because I didn't intend for these to be used regularly they don't come equipped with any cordage. Thus if your fly is floating several inches and then you simply stake the grosgrain loop to the ground you are likely pulling down too hard here. If you want to use these for wind performance it's best to add 2-3" (5-8cm) of cord/shockcord). On the longer side walls there are again grosgrain loops on the hem and also the cord loops at the door ties. The grosgrain loops at the hem are not as good to use because there is not a straight line of fabric between them and the peak. Rather this wall of the tent has a bent shape to it along the top of the door (illustrated by the green line below - it is that shape even without the red line pulling out because of tension from the far peak to the nearest corner). Since the door panel is on a steeper slope than the roof panel, if you stake out the bottom hem and pull down on that, it will pull the tent inward. If you pull hard enough, the wall theoretically moves to where I've shown the dotted line.

So the grosgrain loops on the longer sides aren't that helpful for cranking the tent tight to lower wind deflection. Rather, the point of these is to minimize inward deflection from snow loads. If you stake these down then when snow slides down the tent it won't push the tent inwards at the bottom. When I am expecting snow I pitch the tent with very short cord at the corners so it pitches right to the ground (to avoid spindrift), and then these loops can be used without extra cord, but if the tent is pitch higher then some additional cord is needed. Below is a photo of these doing that job such that snow intrusion is minimal:

The door tie outs on the larger side walls are in a better position to support the tent during high winds because if you stake these out in the direction shown by the red arrow (in the diagram above) you shouldn't be distorting the shape of the tent since it is already in the shape shown by the green line. So you can stake these to the ground like this picture and then they support the wall, but you still don't want to crank them too hard since you can cause downward sag as you note. I would normally just stake this snug but not cranked down so it combats inward deflection but it's pulling outward on the tent much. However, if you want to add outward pull here then you would want to stake it out further from the tent, or ideally use a lifter so you aren't pulling downwards too hard. Indeed the ideal direction of pull would be perpendicular to the panel, although I still wouldn't pull the tent out here, but rather would use a lifter to support it here so it doesn't deflect inwards. If you did do this, then you could also crank down the grosgrain loop at the hem without pulling the door wall inward since the shape of the tent is now more reinforced. I want to add the caveat that while these door loops are pretty strong, they were just designed to be door loops so they aren't intended as guyout points and thus may be insufficient in extreme conditions if you're subjecting them to high loads. One last note is that if you are worried about wind resistance on the broad side, you can also add a second peak guyline that ties around the pole tip or the grommet/webbing and run this out the vent. Then you would stake the external peak guyline off the end wall and this additional guyline out along the door zipper like this:

(Edited)

GrandPoobah1

Apr 25, 2019

dandurstonGotta love the detailed answers you provide. Thank you so much!

PAW1

Apr 29, 2019

dandurstonHi Dan For the Double Peak Guyouts, what about tying the 2nd guyout to the loop that attaches the lineloc to the tent? That way you could closed the vent it needed. Which if it's THAT windy, you probably would want to.

dandurston

5116

Dan Durston

Apr 29, 2019

PAW1Yeah you can do that. Tying it right to the pole tip is the most direct connection but it still works wells to tie it outside. I think it's a bit better to tie to the LineLoc rather than the grosgrain so you aren't scrunching the grosgrain. You can actually tie on two additional guylines (3 total) if you want. Super solid but normally big time overkill:

(Edited)

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