Fulla 3 from Schiit vs SoundblasterX G6 from Creative for DT990 Pro 250 Ohm | With the G6 you...

Nov 23, 2020

Sounds like you are leaning towards the G6. (Whilst I have strong opinions on this, and have owned MANY soundblaster parts, I would certainly go down a very different pathway if you were considering 250 Ohm headphones) For now, and accepting you are new to this as a hobby, I would highly suggest aiming for headphones around the 32ohm mark and less than 80 ohm variants of ‘Pro’ headphones as numbers to hit. With ‘low ohm’ numbers the headphones will have MUCH BETTER CONTROL from low powered sources, and might be able to run from the playstation controller better, or certainly small portable (cheaper) DAC/amps. (what you read about ‘high numbered ohms (eg 250-600)’ sounding better than their low ohm equivalents is due to having high amplifier power on tap and the better driver control that they then generally deliver.) Think of sub ‘100’ numbers as being usable from battery powered devices, and that is a pretty safe ‘rule of thumb’ to guide you in case the purchase happens quickly and you cannot get feedback from the community at large that might help your decision. That being said, the large open back headphones do have an awesome soundfield. Helpful for Dolby Headphone and ‘’headphone surround’ gaming solutions. I bought a Creative E5 as a general purpose toy (mostly as a cheap DAC/amp for my daughter to drive some Sennheiser Momentum On ears), and I will not deny, I ended up using that part daily in so many different ways. (best use was line out into the car ‘aux in’ and it proved a massive soundfield/sound quality upgrade to the Alpine headdeck which wasn’t a cheap or entry level part itself..) The Schiit part you refer to, or the concept of 2 channel seperates will certainly drive home /studio style headphones better than ‘mass market’ built for gamers parts. Creative do have a few ‘higher end parts’ and a great marketing department and ‘lots of cool software’ features. They might not pay licensing costs for Dolby Headphone Surround etc, and that would be what I would be looking for in a part to render headphone gaming sound. That being said,.. the PS5 will do the 2 channel encode (encoding HRTFs into a 2channel stream that simulates perfect surround placement) and you will just want a straight DAC out for that (or use the headphone jack on the PS5 controller). The chips inside the PS5 controller are not bad (might be GOOD ENOUGH), the chips inside the PS4 v2 controller (light bar viewable from above) is an upgrade over the sound output from the version 1, as many reviewers have said, and my daughter has confirmed. I used to give Turtle beach dolby headphone adaptors to friends (whenever I saw the parts in a clearance bin), but many of the dolby headphone products are going to require Toslink/fibre optic digital out (the ps4 pro has that as did the original PS4, but the slim line and the PS5 do not). For USB audio out, the PS4 supports older USB methods (class 1 usb audio devices) natively, but rejects many newer parts. Sony have been known to swap the channels (L=>R) to enforce buying official, so it is hard to state what home audio USB DACs are going to work best. Some options then become using the HDMI to feed to the TV (HDMI is horrible for digital audio (massive jitter in most instances), and then using the TV to digital output into your decoder box of choice. Some TVs will allow restreaming their audio as bluetooth.. lots of options open up depending on your present equipment and ultimate plans.... For myself, preparing for PS5, and only using non HDMI methods, I have been in thinking about ‘solutions’. Presently I am going with “a cambridge DAC MAGIC (allows switching between USB audio classes and guarantees working with Switch/Playstation etc), using it as a USB reclocker and switch box to feed into other devices ; eg the home receiver (Toslink)/better DAC (using coax or fibreoptic) etc. A cheap (read second hand) DAC Magic Plus might serve your needs for a headphone amp for those 250 ohm cans, and give you the option to run various things.. of course NONE of this factors in your need for the microphone. There are a lot of options from the mic on the playstation camera/peripherals etc,.. but you are right in making sure that you get that mic sorted, which sadly, much ‘home hifi’ will not allow, simply being focused on DAC/2 channel audio. For the record the Creative E5 blew me away with its relatively quiet noise floor and sound capabilities in general, but I never expected anything majorly from it. Whether you have the ears to recognise the differences from one DAC to another (generally requires training, either learning an instrument or hours of listening to tests/analytical tracks etc), probably not worth worrying about. For the quality of the headphones you are considering, a better home audio DAC/amp will generally deliver better sounds than a creative part, but as for whether that is what you seek, I do not know. I would certainly buy my headphones with the intent of having them play well on budget boxes if that is the plan going forward; to this end, aiming at sub 100 ohmage will be the trick. some 20-40ohm parts with high sensitivity (>94dB) will give loud sound and controlled response from all outputs, be it the headphone jack on a nintendo product or playstation controller etc, and makes for a logical and sound investment given your plans. Buying a 250 ohm part because many talk about the sonic benefits, is based on those users running home head fi kit and have matching amps etc. (probably not many using anything by creative labs). for every 3dB in increased sensitivity the sound volume level will double.. Headphones claiming sensitivity like 98dB will be noticably louder from the inbuilt controller amplifier, and so something with say 32ohm impedance and 98dB sensitivity will be ‘very easy to drive’ for whichever consumer class amp that you are using (and honestly wyou might find you do not need an extra amp at all). Generally running an amp at lower volume levels will let it perform to the best of its’ ability. And so getting sensitive cans driven well by small amplifier parts (low ohms/high sensitivity) will serve you the best.

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Nov 23, 2020

WhitedragemGood to know. I will say a couple of things though. You did save me from purchasing one of those things that extract audio from HDMI to optical. And you have made me reconsider my decision of 250ohms, and I only went for 250ohms because people have said I am able to drive them just fine. I am trying to keep this budget at $~300 to 350, so maybe I might lean towards the 80ohm, but again I have read of a lot of people being able to drive the 250ohm fine with the G6, so really I am stuck here but I will definitely take everything you said into consideration. Thank you for the reply and help!

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Nov 24, 2020

ZiimmieWith the G6 you will be able to push higher ohm loads sure,.. but with that level of electronics, there isn’t a lot in getting the 80ohm to the 250ohm versions. Where you WILL have massive benefits with the 80ohm is in direct running from the PS4/PS5 controller (which isn’t going to play nice with the 250ohm part). The PS5 has built dedicated audio into the platform, unseen by gamers since a handful of titles in the late nineties, and some gamers may have experienced with the PSVR. (there was an audio demo or two for free download that were pretty incredible). 4x the PSVR implementation is what the PS5 will offer.. (again; NOTHING has done this since the days of Aureal A3D 2.0, which was bought up by a competitor, creative labs and then buried permanently). It required games programmers to assign a material value to every ingame surface and then soundwaves could be wavetraced and occluded to simulate real life sound wave propagation. The difference to every other sound engine was night and day (titles like Half Life and Thief supported it, arguably Thief being built from the ground up to use the tech), when Playstation games come out that are written to use the hardware sound implementation given with the new system, it will be revolutionary to gaming. (you might just have to trust me on this one, but I have had just about every creative sound card since the Sound blaster version 1 from the eighties (it had a 5W amplifier onboard and I drove actual speakers from it...), through to AWE64, and Auzentech Prelude (licensed Creative chipset), etc). You WILL WANT TO plug your headphones direct into the Playstation. From what I can see inside the new controller are some very high power parts, mostly looking like they are using audio parts for the haptics, but perhaps the headphone out will be something truly special. (I would have a lil faith based on the effort elsewhere in the system towards sound). I too am dumping my headphones, presently, and ‘reconfiguring to some sensitive/easy to drive units that will work with the playstation controller’. I have many DACs and amps, and ways to use higher quality parts, like my aforementioned DAC MAGIC (Plus)=>Chord Hugo=>flagship marantz receiver=>4m cable to sitting position. Ghosts of Tsushima never sounded so good... Irrelevant to you is my setup, but not having flexibility down the track because the old ‘rule of thumb’ about headphones being more hifi with the higher ohm loads is relevant for some, but not worth it IMHO when pairing with a Creative (G6) and not leaving yourself the latitude to run directly from the playstation system. For example, what if the headphone training only works via the headphone out on the controller (unlikely), but then you would be annoyed that you HAVE to go through a DAC. Again, DACs sound pretty similar if you are not training yourself for the differences. The one in the PS5 controller is acceptable/decent quality, and I think there will be times you will want to be relatively cord free (just to the controller), and have the ease of gaming that 80Ohm allows. (Plus direct from nintendo switch/phone/tablet/and other future portable devices, including a whole slew of DAPs). Those HDMI to toslink splitters are a prospect I have considered. For now I suggest making your DAC/amp and second hand DAC magic plus, or something from Drop that will run from the USB on the playstation. The DAC magic (‘plus’ variant doubles as a headphone amp) can take the usb out and reclock, and allow passing to other digital formats, which are more ‘old surround amp friendly. Feeding 2 channel audio (dolby surround encoded) into the marantz (using pro logic IIx)via a high end converter was such an audio upgrade for me vs running dolby digital (toslink) direct that It was a no brainer. Soundtracks were way more organic and instruments sounded right (no compression involved), vs Dolby Digital which might have had better steering on the rear channels (more useful in a race game perhaps) but none of the musicality of the uncompressed feed. That was using a flagship surround receiver, so YMMV. I would take a high quality surround receiver, sans HDMI, for a few hundred, rather than a $1200 dolby atmos part. I have four or more flagship receivers, usually only costing a couple of hundred second hand.. that all flog much newer several thousand dollar surround amps. I generally run a nice processor with re-eq into those old flagship receivers, essentially using them as power amps and high quality headphone amps. For your budget, and if you have the desk space, I suggest have a look. You can probably get a Dolby Headphone marantz receiver from fifteen years ago for peanuts and it would be a real powerhouse of a product that is worth holding onto. Of course why it is being sold should always be questioned (is it broken/sick) but generally it is the absense of HDMI that makes these parts cheap. I have picked up many HDMI 1.4 receivers worth a few thousand for a few hundred as well, but they are more ‘luck’ and scouring classifieds. A flagship part from twenty years ago is vastly better than a part four or five from the top, that is ten years newer.. but we all have different requirements. I don’t mind the power bill, in the same way that some people don’t mind driving old petrol inefficient cars; the saving they make on the purchase they lose over time by the mile/kilometre.. I buy usually based on ‘weight’ of a component. Anyhow most of this is an aside to your project, just helping you ‘think outside the box’ with regards to your project. The 80ohm headphones will work for you in more places, and if, unlike others, you do not have a few headphones in your collection ‘for versatility’, their advice might not be practical. I have around ten sets of headphones I am clearing off right now to whittle down to ‘one set to rule them all’. (no such thing). I will probably keep some open back audio technicas (ADG1X) due to their huge soundfield being so useful for dolby headphone/ whatever the PS5 will dish up. Thanks for a reply to acknowledge I may have helped. It is nice to hear feedback, if only that my rants are too long, and ye get to sleepy reading to learn anything practical. I do draw the line at editing(rereading) my posts. I type quick and it takes little/nil of my time to offer this advice, and advice is generally only worth something when asked for (advice given free is, not on topic, is worth the asking price(nothing) generally too, so I hope my posts contain ‘nuggets/diamonds’ of truth.). cheers again for feedback. (Happy to keep further posts short, and give further clarity on any topics raised)

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Nov 24, 2020

WhitedragemRight, I am getting where you are going with this. One thing is I am fine to run through a DAC on PlayStation because I don't believe I will get any mic input without buying a ModMic USB or equivalent (unless I just use the ModMic Uni plugged into the DualSense, and then run the line out from my monitor into the line in on the G6, but the only problem with that is the line out on my monitor has a little bit of buzz to it, if that makes sense). I also want to have both audio coming from my PC as well as my PlayStation at the same time, because, while it is laughable I admit, I do have Apple Music I don't know if there is anyway to get Apple Music working on PS5 (if it did, it would probably be some AirPlay solution which the latency can be bad sometimes in my owm experience with AirServer). I also don't intend to use my headphones without them being plugged into the G6. If I travel with my PS5, I will either find another cord for my Astro A40's or just travel with my Astro A20 Wireless, which are my current primary headphones, and I am sure that regardless if I go 80ohm or 250ohm with this amp, it will be a huge upgrade. With these things in mind (sorry if it seems like a lot lol), do you suggest now that I go for 250ohm or 80ohm? Thanks again for all the feedback!

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Nov 24, 2020

Ziimmieto clarify, you wouldnt use your exceptional headphones with the console, and you rather the astros for gaming? (I’d use your better headphones from the headphone out of the PS5, and the astros would gather dust if I had dt990pros’) yes, this might change an opinion (glad we are clarifying)

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Sutorman

Nov 24, 2020

Whitedragem"Sounds like you are leaning towards the G6. (Whilst I have strong opinions on this, and have owned MANY soundblaster parts, I would certainly go down a very different pathway if you were considering 250 Ohm headphones)" I own the HD6xx headphones and use the G6 to push them, which it does very well. Additionally, the components used in the G6 are apparently good quality, as well. Is it comparable to something like the Shitt Hel, probably not, but it is competitive for its price.

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Nov 25, 2020

SutormanI wouldn’t recommend that part either... (as I have already stated; I AM an opinionated prat). For the level of kit that the DT990Pros are getting matching tiered kit can help. I wrote up something on headfi once for those new to sound /sound science. A lot of entry level five star stuff is still entry level. Five star is vs kit in the same tier. The DT990 Pros are not entry level headphones. I know many will buy an amp based on ‘the numbers game’. Schiit know what they are doing; can even make parts on the home soil that is profitable.. I think they are brilliant (for what they cost) and would heartily recommend. I would buy both the G6 and the Hel for some uses. Nothing wrong with that. The Original Poster has been considering 250 ohm cans vs their 80 ohm counterparts because a few ‘fast talking audiophiles’ have denounced the 80 ohm variant, which truthfully, won’t give the bass control that some 250 ohm parts could when fed from very DECENT amplification. We are talking here about the last nuances of sound. The 80 ohm parts fed really well would outclass the 250 ohm part fed from an entry level (class) amp. Sadly, those new to the hobby, and reading really opinionated people who do not qualify their respective viewpoints (or have genuine empathy to the end uses quandary, rather wanting to share their experienced and ‘superior’ knowledge, are often doing so due to an unchecked ego wanting to feel good. I have rants all over the internet that no doubt verge on the same (I am only human, after all)) -might prove misleading. Misled equal mismatched equipment = higher costs until the sound sounds right. Its true that low ohmage parts can require a tighter output impeadance, eg I have some B&W P7s that took aeons for me to find an amp with <2 ohm output impeadance (My asus essense STX being around 10ohm) and once driven correclty their bass didn’t bloom etc. The PS5 has been given serious attention as to the sound aspect. Sound from the controller makes sense, and yes, I like the op, will probably use an offboard DAC likely fed into an powered amp, to drive whichever cans we run. The DT 990 Pros are known to be excellent headphones for gaming (up their with some of the best), and ahem, Astros are well regarded and have some front end processing available (not wanted with the PS5) but they are gaming cans, and the generally accepted consensus is that the absolute best gaming cans are pretty easily destoryed by well selected budget home stereo headsets, and certainly by mid-fi headphones. For the record I use some Audio Technicas ADG1X for gaming (great soundfield), and moved on some beyer open back Tesla drivers due to not giving the gaming sound I wanted.. (even though they WERE better headphones). It is easy to argue subjective opinion, and there are many ‘truths’ with regards to sound. I have no doubt that a Schiit Hel is an upgrade for majority of people. Majority of people I would neverr use as my qualifier for anything, and when I do, it is usually when I am performing a sales role. (I only work sales for ethical employers/when selling ethical products BECAUSE I AM ‘really good’ at selling).(like many people).

Nov 25, 2020

Whitedragemhttps://www.head-fi.org/threads/3-different-headphone-types-3-amps-1-song-that-does-not-remain-the-same-impressions-to-guide-what-differences-to-expect-and-bang-vs-buck.708391/#post-10334231 probably only worth reading the first post as an overview of what can happen when we play with different levels of kit. It is in my typical ‘long winded format’ (apolgies) Might take a few minutes to read. Will confirm that all parts of the chain matter, and that price tiers pretty quickly change the sound quality. That being said the argument could easily then become ‘but the PS5 controller is a cheap DAC/amp vs outboard bit n pieces’..? Sure, but the PS5 controller is convenient, and sometimes gaming should just be easy/fun. 80ohm headphones have a chance of working with headphone jacks on gaming devices, and sometimes mobile phones. Technically all headphones will WORK with a mobile phone etc, but many do not understand the difference between work/work well. Until we have heard better, it is easy to fall to old traps of ‘louder is (perceived as) better’ etc. I love my Creative E5 part. It did a lot of stuff very right, and I have driven many thousands of kilometres using it as the DAC/preamp. Doesn’t mean if I had some top of the line headphones I would WANT to use it to drive them even though it features the same DAC chip as my Questyle QP1R. Would an Aurender Flow be the better DAC and amp; definately; (the last drop on them finished last week, but always keeping an eye on them as they would seriously outclass my QP1R, which I will be happy driving some Ultrasone Edition 5s’ from, even for gaming, over some Audio Technicas. I chose those Ultrasones due to being sensitive enough to run straight from my PS5 controller, and I WILL use them in that config, for convenience, whenever it suits me. I will also use a four piece stack of esoteric parts to generate ‘better sound’ for gaming.. This is a hobby after all ;-)

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Nov 25, 2020

ZiimmieDamn just lost a succinct post I was three words from finishing with regards to your needs: Saving the blurb again and discussing the misleading page that is the G6 advertising; grab the G6 as a solution for your mixing needs (at a budget cost; the power of creative mass market isn’t going to be easily beaten) Do not believe the white doc/spec sheet numbers necessarily though. It Can drive 600 ohm, just not necessarily WELL. the 80 ohm headphones would allow you to drive the amp at a lower level and will massively increase perceived quality, rather than 250ohm variants that will require more output power, and have the amp perform ten times noisier for equivalent volume. Buy the 250 ohm variants if you plan to buy another amp down the track for 2 channel desktop use (sans mixer) where the amp is nearly equal in cost to the headphones.. That G6 and those headphones is an excellent budget sound setup that will smash what your astros would do. I do not believe that the 32 bit DAC chip (with dolby digital input) would render dolby headphone surround (licensing cost that Creative are unlikely to buy), and with the PS5 you wouldn’t use. (rather straight 2 channel ‘headphone’ sound, which will have its own HRTFs in place and will want to avoid further processing, but will run fine through the mixer so long as no other sound ‘enhancements are in place’(maybe a s bass boost)) Many people saying that the amp runs 600ohm cans, doesn’t ensure that the G6 runs them well, nor that they have heard their 600ohm cans from ‘other’ better matched equipment. If you require mixing, quite simply, at this price point, you have yourself a tight solution for the money involved.

Dec 3, 2020

WhitedragemSo sorry I have not checked this in a while. I have done a brief read-through of the thread just before I started typing this, and I do have a couple more questions. So when you say "audio out of the PS5" you mean the headphone out on the controller right? I can't really see what else besides the HDMI out, but I just want to clarify. And also I see you mention plugging the DT990Pro's straight in the controller, but I do just want to remind you that I don't plan on using these without my DAC, as I will need a microphone (ModMic plugged into the G6 in this case) to talk to my buddies in PlayStation parties. I don't think there is any program/solution I could use to get PS parties working on PC. If that was the case I would be saving $50 by not buying the ModMic. I also want to state again that I can get a PS5 (those damn bots), and it fits in my bag (as that thing is huge), I would probably use my Astro A40's or A20's. Now with reading everything above, I think I'm starting to lean towards the 80ohm, though. I probably won't upgrade to another DAC unless the G6 breaks. Thank you both @Sutorman and @Whitedragem for all your help. As a new member of the audiophile community, this was all very confusing to me at first but you guys have helped out a lot here with what I should get.