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Are people generally able to tell the difference between DACs?

Sep 17, 20184736 VIEWS

I am not talking about run of the mill computer and phone dacs. I am talking about if you go up to a Schiit Modi 2 for example, will you be able to tell a difference between that dac and say a $1000 DAC?
I am personally in the camp of no you won't be able to tell the difference. Higher end DACs definitely provide more utility but in terms of sound, I think diminishing returns start sooner for the DAC category.
I am curious to see what people's opinions are. I am listening on a Focal Elex - Liquid Carbon X - SMSL SU8 so maybe my set up doesn't have the resolving power needed? I do not know.

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Senpai-sama

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Macta

Sep 5, 2019

I have Lipinski's L707's driven by a Hypex amp in a dedicated room just to give you an idea of my listening environment, my source is a RME pcie card in a Mac going SPDIF to a Presonus Central Station (AKM DAC (4396)), Recently I bought a Philips CD player with a TDA1451A DAC beceause I was curious how this would sound. With my Presonus I can easely switch between the CD player and the Mac, first I was dissepointed and found the difference was not really notticable, though after a period listening between the same songs i began to notice the differences, the TDA has more attack in transient sounds, the bass and snare drums became more noticable, at the same time other sounds got muffled, very strange? the highs where also better but not as notticeble, It would have been difficult in a blind test. Was it worth it? Yes and No: Yes, for the experience. No, don't expect drastic changes, for a purist going after the perfect sound its a chalange.

(Edited)

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Hilton807

Sep 29, 2018

BS. The reason that you can’t tell the difference between DACs is that your system doesn’t have enough resolution to be able to tell the difference. And that’s fine. Just use your DAC and be happy. But - if your system has enough resolving power to hear the difference, hooray! Your music probably sounds better because your system is more fine-tuned.. instruments and voices will sound more realistic, bass will go deeper, highs will go higher, and midrange more transparent. To recap, it’s OK, honey, it’s not you (your ears), it’s me (your system).

Matti88

Nov 13, 2022

Hilton807Yes I am late to the party. But studies at the university level have shown that DACs priced between $500 to $5000 are not discernable by human ears. The only time they are discernable is when those who want to drop $200 k on a system want to show and tell and the retailers are happy. Just think of this, Piaget vs Omega? Both tell time and your eyes can see the same time.

(Edited)

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RayF

22218

Sep 23, 2018

Get ready pal, the "ever-thirsty" are about to beat a path to your door on this one ;- )

pslayer1

274

Sep 23, 2018

I've got a Cambridge DacMagic 100 with a Wolfson chip and a ifi iDac2 with a Burr Brown chip and there is a noticeable difference. Of course, one is 24/192 and the other 32/PCM384

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sam261007

Jul 22, 2020

pslayer124/192 and 32/384 just means they can process frequencies up to 96 & 192 kHz respectively, you can't hear past about 17 kHz 🤖 Those sample rates are useful when slowing down audio or marketing with big numbers! ✊ Both those products you mention are amp/dac combos, the difference between amps is much greater than dacs. The difference between headphones is much greater than amps 👍

gtbrown50

Sep 23, 2018

A very good question, answers will by very subjective of course. I have several DACs, Schiit Multibit along with some SDs. To keep this brief, I use the Schiit Gungnir Multibit as my go to DAC. Before that I used a Modi 2 Multibit (current model) and a Pro-ject S2 with MQA. I use strictly headphones, Focal Clear, Audeze LCD X and XC, Mrspeakers Ether Flow and Flow C, Senn HD800S. I'll switch headphones daily, but always with the Gungnir, that doesn't change.
Yes, to me it sounds the best. I did some "blind" testing with the Pro-Ject and Gungnir using MQA Masters music from Tidal. The Gungnir was smoother. Now what that means on paper is beyond me, but I could consistently identify the DAC being used. I did this by listening to both pretty loudly focusing on the high treble. The Pro-Ject had an edge that COULD be pronounced, the Gungnir had even better treble but it never sounded sharp.
From my experience, the Pro-Ject is a great DAC, but is not as good as the Schiit Gungnir Multibit.
Greg

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Mazuly

Sep 23, 2018

@senpai-sama
By the way I have a Focal Elex as well (listening to it as I am writing this directly connected to Mojo Fed with microRendu and Audirvana +). Try and find a Mojo and try it with your Elex. I think it will surprise you.

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Cole104

Sep 23, 2018

jitter and noise are really common issues even in higher end dacs. I can hear the differences between some dacs, but not all. I remember hearing a Pagoda Labs Orchid V2 next to the Border Patrol SE, and the Orchid was obviously warmer, where listening to the same song on the border patrol sounded like vocals were much drier and clearer. Schiit Yggy is really gorgeous sounding, but it has a small soundstage. It measures ridiculously low in eliminating jitter and power noise. I would say yes when a/b, but if the same DAC is at my desk all year then I'm not gonna appreciate that it may sound better, because I would listen to most things through it, not other gear. Differences aren't huge, but IMO definitely noticeable

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Mazuly

Sep 23, 2018

In may case it was night and day.
I went from oppo HA-1 to Chord Mojo and it was a revelation.
Mojo is just in another league with smother sound, tons of detail that I did not hear on oppo easily and just all around better sound.
Then I got the microRendu and that was another jump. This little deceive made Mojo bring out even more detail and clarity and the image just expanded and became more stable.
I now only use HA-1 as preamp/headphone amp feeding it through RCA input from Mojo. Also Audirvana + software on my Mac mini makes a big difference.

GunsOfBrixton

912

Sep 22, 2018

In practice, I would say no, despite the fact that I really want the answer to be yes. That's been my experience based on blind a/b testing. I think it's just the reality that the precise conversion of 0s and 1s to analog sound has been solved. Absent some system flaw, a certain set of bits reliably translates into the same analog signal if you're using a modern DAC. The variance in sound comes from other parts of the chain.
Here's an article on a blind test that goes into detail: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733.html

rdodev

632

Sep 22, 2018

Law of diminishing marginal return definitely applies to Hi-Fi but more so to DACs than any other part of the stack. There's also the issue of misinformation and snake oil in the higher end market. For instance the price of components inside a $1000 DAC is probably around $100 maybe less. 99.99% of all DACs I've seen out there use off-the-shelf, highly commoditized chips and electronics. The "famed" premium AKM chips, for example cost like $5 -- yup, five dollars -- when bought in lots of 100 ( much cheaper with higher quantities). Analog Devices, maybe $7-8 for their top of the line DAC, Silicon Labs's $5, ESS about the same. Capacitors, resistors, etc, even when using top-of-the-line we're taking pennies on the dollar. So, even if you were to add to the price stuff like R&D, time and labor, there's no reason for a "$1000" DAC to cost more than $300-400. Then there's complete snake oil like $100 "audiophile grade USB cables" which is absurd at many levels given a $2 USB certified cable will do an *identical* job.
This is a long-winded way to say that anything above $300-400 you're buying into brand and your own psychological biases because unless it's an awful, noisy, jittery unit the differences between a $250 DAC and a $2000 DAC are marginal at best.

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