Drop Mech Keys Meetup Recap - Thanks for Visiting!
As you may have seen, we just hosted our first meetup in quite a while here at Drop HQ (Corsair HQ, but they seem to like us enough :) )! It was a blast to get to meet so many enthusiasts local to the bay area—it had been 10 years since I was last hanging out with keyboard nerds in the bay, at KeyCon 2014. We had a great time hosting everyone at the offices, checking out all the very nice boards y'all brought, and sharing some of our own projects/spaces! I knew it would be fun to host in the Game Room when I first saw it in person, but seeing it come to fruition was still so cool. Alright, I'll stop blabbering on now. xD Picture time! (Oh, real quick - there will be more of these! Stay tuned for more info and to catch the next one!)
May 15, 2024
I've applied for a refund on this one sadly, and I don't think I'll be purchasing anything else through massdrop again.
The quite frankly ridiculous postage charges and terrible support when things go wrong have really put me off, it's taken over 2 months to get an incorrect item shipped out to me, and even then I've been lied to. I was told they had it in stock but all they've done is waited for the next drop to finish to send me another unit.
You need to sort out your UK postage costs on just about all your items, because what you're charging is downright unfair.
Sorry massdrop, it was fun while it lasted.
I researched this product and the ErgoDox family extensively before joining this drop, and it was apparent to me the state of the product, and I am very aware that hardware production more often than not takes more time than planned. It was not before the delay I realized that this information was not present in the description of this drop.
Had I not been aware of this I might have a different attitude towards this drop, but there is nothing here that is not expected for me. It be nice if they were a bit more transparent with follow up information.
Now in retrospect; are people not glad that this drop has a strict QA?
What about the software/firmware side of things? We have not had any updates on it from @Haata for a while now...
Oh Btw: " @ Haata" does not list him anymore... why is that ?
So a QA/QC is indeed warranted - If I was in this drop, I would be glad the design is changing - it would have been great if the designers were around to answer these concerns - the infinity's share a lot in common, you guys will also have these teeny tiny SMD's that are likely impossible to re-solder/replace if issues occur - it would have been great if larger SMD's were used with datasheets provided - it would be great if the designers of the PCB address some of these concerns - for example, are the components really used out of their boundaries?
I'm guessing HaaTa is working on the final touches for the firmware for ErgoDox, as he stated at the github discussions of the firmware
Where I do think you're wrong is that this product is actually the perfect product for Massdrop. You cannot get it anywhere else, and they're leveraging their size to get something neat built. However, the issue of time expectations, unhappy customers and deceptive practices needs to be addressed.
Time is money, and we've all put our money down with an expectation of getting a product shipped late June. I think it's only fair that for every month that the product is late, everyone should get 10% off their order. I fail to see the point of a refund at this stage; I could have had an ErgoDox from one of the other people out there 2-3 months ago, but instead I went in on this. So, not only am I out of pocket, but I've wasted my time.
On this drop, it's only a matter of applying some common sense - June 29th was a laughably aggressive ship date. As others have noted, a good bit more communication earlier on would have been really helpful and appreciate here, but I, for one, am still excited that Massdrop is taking the initiative to try to monetize projects like this.
Others have compared this experience negatively to a Kickstarter, but I actually think that this is very similar to and in many ways better than a Kickstarter. This is a very aggressive iteration on a thing that Massdrop has done before; similar to a Kickstarter, there are unknowns, and only basic prototypes, and the timelines are more likely to slip than not. However, at least Massdrop has done ergodox-like things before, and knows how to get this stuff actually shipped when it's done.
In this case, they made the "laughably aggressive ship date", and some level of corporate responsibility needs to be shown to demonstrate that when you make a delivery promise to a customer there needs to be some follow through.
MD are not Kickstarter, and I don't think there's much point comparing them. MD is a known quantity that normally deliver. I have been involved in 49(!) drops with MD, and in my opinion for these types of "venture" drops where there are unknown quantities (i.e. time, delivery, research, etc), the customer needs to be informed of the risks and people need to be held to timelines.
But I think it was kind of obvious from what I read before I joined the drop that many aspects were not quite figured out. I, at least, did not expect late June to be a hard deadline, but a best estimate given their expectations. I usually double whatever seems to be a reasonable estimate and it turns out alright (in this case, April - June would be 2 months, 2 months more bring us to the new date of August).
Should the organizers have estimated better? That would have been ideal... But they had unforeseen issues. Based on what I had read before joining, I'm not at all surprised that we still don't have our Ergodoxes. In other words, I think the customer was informed that there could be some risks.
As for holding to timelines, Alex made it clear that people are free to withdraw from the drop, if the delays are an inconvenience. Otherwise, I'm glad they're fixing the problems and wouldn't expect to pay less for a better quality product than they originally had planned.
Now you're saying things still needed to be developed? How would I know that? I didn't think MassDrop was kickstarter. I thought the ergodox was already created years ago. There are even pictures of a completed ergodox, and pictures of other infinity keyboards. What is there to develop? PCB redesign? What are you talking about? There are photos of a completed and finished ergodox on the main page. This is even sold as a no-soldering, so I thought it was especially friendly to people that don't understand what goes into creating these keyboards. I thought this thing was ready to go, but for the mass order.
Honestly, I'm not even looking for an answer. These points simply illustrate a non-tech-genius perspective. I'm still extremely excited to get this keyboard. But now I hear people saying the keyboard might not even work well for a while because additional development and troubleshooting will need to be done? Damn..... that's disappointing.
Also, contact MassDrop and back out if this isn't what you expected. It is as simple as that.
"Thanks for reaching out! Unfortunately, we can’t cancel and refund orders after the drop has ended because we have already collected your money and sent it to the manufacturer. When submitting large orders, we’re not allowed to return individual units for refunds. "
So your idea of, if we don't get it we get a refund... I'm not sure that holds solid ground... It's also laughable, as I also asked for a refund on another items and got an immediate yes, no questions asked....
I'm not even going to get into the fact that Massdrop might be crossing some online purchasing lines here regarding cool-down periods.. Especially with how long it takes from payment to item delivery. If you pay with Paypal, beware... after that 90 days is up it's quite difficult to force a refund. I would make sure you purchase directly with your CC so you have some protection and can charge-back if things get nasty (I'm not saying they will, I'm just making a point)
He did go on to say "However, if you truly need to cancel your order, I can make a one-time exception for you. Please let me know if you need me to do so, and I can get it processed for you"
It makes me feel like they know there is an issue with this drop, and due to the high per-member value of a contributor they don't want to let people out of it before the item arrives.
As I say I'm not purchasing anything else from MD now, their UK postage costs are a joke. I'll be keeping an eye on this drop to see where it ends up (if it ever gets there).
Good luck with your Kickstarter guys.
Input Club has finished keyboards. They finished the Infinity, which has dropped successfully on massdrop https://www.massdrop.com/buy/infinity-keyboard-kit?s=infinity <- here.
If you're going to attack people, you could at least get their names right, or pay enough attention that you know who you're attacking.
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/infinity-ergodox/talk#!175190
And I'm nowhere near a mega enthusiast. I just like to know this stuff before I buy.
For the record, I am not a "mega-enthusiast". I'm not even a regular enthusiast. This is actually my first non Apple-Bluetooth-slab keyboard that I have owned in a while, and it will be my first mechanical keyboard ever. I know what I know mostly from reading the discussion here and on the original ErgoDox drop. There are plenty of people here who are aware of what's going on without spending hundreds of hours on keyboard forums. Just because you weren't well-informed when you joined doesn't mean the information wasn't there or that Massdrop hid the facts from everyone.