Drop + Invyr Holy Panda Mechanical Switches Discussions | Drop

Apr 18, 2019

YanboWuWhy didn't you say the original drop was discounted ?
Geez guys 0 transparency. I would have bought it before by curiosity but now with the price increase I'll pass.

(Edited)

Apr 18, 2019

Apr 19, 2019

Damn, you people are so entitled. No one said there would be a second round. Zeals prices are around the same. This is the cost of this hobby. If you have the audacity to complain about something like this for a niche hobby, you need to find yourself another hobby to complain about. Or, you know, buy your Gaterons that are the same for 1/10th the price.

(Edited)

Apr 19, 2019

Apr 19, 2019

TekilaShotSame goes for you. Entitled, much? No one said there would be a second drop, much less discuss pricing. Also, saying discounted is just lingo. The reality is the prices were raised for the second drop, not that the original was "discounted." Why would you assume that something so coveted would be sold for the same price the second time or third time round if the demand was so high the first time around? You're not going to buy it because you can't afford or want to spend that much, then don't. Simple enough. I can believe the hate Massdrop gets sometimes, but we also sometimes forget how crappy people are.

(Edited)

Apr 19, 2019

Apr 19, 2019

AevynnWhile you have some valid points I don't recall MD rising the price of an item for a 2nd drop hence my surprise when I made my comment. And no I don't hate MD ;)

Apr 19, 2019

herbion

Apr 19, 2019

YanboWuI think MD and YanboWu just took the opportunity to ride FOMO train. I doubt the production cost suddenly went up in just a few months. It's an opportunity and they took it.

(Edited)

Apr 19, 2019

Apr 19, 2019

TekilaShotYeah, but nowhere did they ever say they wouldn't raise prices. You had a chance to get them at pretty much the lowest price we've seen for holy pandas and you chose to not go for it. They'll probably be cheaper at some point, but that point isn't now.

Apr 19, 2019

Apr 19, 2019

herbionThe price for 110 is the same as it was in the December buy Edit: Can’t math. It’s a bit more, but not by much. $130 for 110, $1.18/switch vs $0.91/switch. So a little bit more, but not that bad still. To make a clone with the YOK Pandas and Halos it’s (again going with 110 for ease) $60.50 for the YOKs and $55 for the halos. So $115.50 for the 110 Holy YOKs, or 1.05 per switch. Keep in mind you have to open and stem swap all of them, so the added work is sorta made up there.

(Edited)

Apr 19, 2019

Vote

Apr 19, 2019

RominroninNot the Invyr housings. There’s the GSUS and YOK housings which make clones that are very good, but not this exact housing

Apr 19, 2019

Vote

Apr 19, 2019

Not quite. All switches are not made equal. Before the MD run of pandas, they cost about $4-5 per switch to make yourself. Clones have lowered that price to be around $1 per, and these are just a little more than that. Zeal’s are over $1 per switch, these are barely more than those.

Apr 19, 2019

Apr 19, 2019

TekilaShotThese are the extras, in limited quantity, if you actually read the post you’d see he mentions that. In the original buy they stated that they would likely not do a second round of these. Most vendors buy extra switches during GB’s to account for variances and unknown issues, that’s what’s the case here. They have extras, and are selling them. There have been delays and likely higher than initially expected production costs, so that easily accounts for the very slight price bump.

Apr 19, 2019

Apr 19, 2019

ZeimusThe YOK pandas at Novelkeys will be back in a yet undisclosed color. Once that is in stock, their plan is to keep them in stock. So there will be a solid source of clone housings available soon^tm

Apr 19, 2019

Apr 19, 2019

jortzI missed that part tbh so yes the price increase makes sense.

Apr 19, 2019

Peripheral

Apr 19, 2019

AevynnZeals prices are the same, yes, but his switches also live up to every bit of the hype.. Granted I wouldnt touch a single switch from vendor/manufacturer that wasnt properly lubed, but zeals are certainly an example of "you gotta pay to play".. Sure the margin of performance is not much over competing vendors, which would indicate a disproportionate price for what you are getting regarding the industry standards, but there is more to the story about zeals switches that i doubt people fully grasp, and what it took to get zeals exclusive switches.. Pandas are still in a league of their own imo.. Ive yet to find anything close save for the gsus and yok clones.. A MUCH better value/performance.. I think MD is trying to capitalize on what was once a really good thing.. Mass produced panda switches that you dont have to pay 5 bucks a pop on the aftermarket.. And since MD owns the stems, they already have half their work done, making it even easier as thats one less component. But with yoks and clonse, there really is no reason to get the og pandas anymore, and certainly not with those margins..

Apr 19, 2019

Cynwrig

Apr 19, 2019

YanboWuSorry, but for the price of 1,29 each I rather go for the zealios. They are a lot cheaper...

Apr 19, 2019

aquila626

Apr 19, 2019

YanboWuSince everyone who buys these will likely crack them open in order to lube them anyway, is there any other advantage of paying more for these than making your own?

Apr 19, 2019

Rooski15

102

Apr 19, 2019

CynwrigAnd the zealios are a known value. Still no md Holys in the wild

Apr 19, 2019

Apr 19, 2019

PeripheralRight.. Let me just find two sets of switches ($0.50 each for halo and $0.55 each for YOK; one of which is now sold out). Let's assume most people buy 110 HP switches for a full keyboard which comes out to $1.18 per switch. Wow. A whopping $0.13 ($14.30 for 110 switches) difference per switch for the convenience of not having to source and Frankenstein a switch. This difference is even lower if someone buys 330 HP switches. Now if you got in on the first drop for 330 switches, it came out to $290 so $0.88 per switch. Try again.

(Edited)

Apr 19, 2019

tmaek

Apr 20, 2019

AevynnThey probably did this because they saw the massive profit potential if the number ordered stayed the same as round 1 (which we still haven't received).

Apr 20, 2019

aquila626

Apr 20, 2019

AevynnThe problem with this is that I seriously doubt Massdrop is buying finished switches and paying people to assemble them by hand. There are commissioned from a factory (which can't be difficult at all given that Massdrop owns the IP to the halo stems) already completed and assembled, meaning that Massdrop only pays for one each of housing, leaf, spring, and stem instead of the two, but instead of passing this savings along they pass along an ~115% markup (assuming the manufacturing cost is the same as the more expensive switch).

Apr 20, 2019

banana_bread

153

Apr 20, 2019

YanboWuThere's some rumors going around that there's no way MD can hit the anticipated ship date of May 30th (10 days delay). Do you know if manufacturing of the original GB has begun yet?

Apr 20, 2019

Vote

Apr 20, 2019

aquila626Yes, of course. Let's all get businesses to stop making profits and pass along all the discounts to the consumer. Dunno about you, but as I said earlier, Zeals switches are still $1+ even when the moulds are created. People need to make money somehow. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Also, it should be obvious they are getting this pre assembled from the factory. Still, MD needs to pay its employees and honestly, it still costs less than it did on r/mm so I don't understand why people are complaining. You get cheaper switches and then complain about them not being cheap enough? Jeez.

(Edited)

Apr 20, 2019

Apr 20, 2019

AevynnCommenting on price doesn't mean someone hates something. These *are* expensive switches no matter how you cut it. $1.50 per switch starting and going down to $1.18 if someone buys 330. I've put tens of thousands into the hobby, but almost none has gone to Massdrop, usually because of the way things are priced. The most expensive switches you'll find on KBDFans or NovelKeys are NovelKey's Cream switches ($1/switch), which is mainly a material cost (the housing is made of POM). There's nothing particularly special about the construction of Holy Pandas to justify the price - they're pre-existing case and stem designs made with standard materials.

(Edited)

Apr 20, 2019

Apr 20, 2019

sardonyxYes, these are expensive switches but there are so many others that are just as expensive. Also, I see the cream switches @ $0.65 each not $1. However, I disagree with you. There is something special about these switches and it's called demand. That's enough to justify the price as you can see based on how much have sold already. It's simple really. It's surprising how many people didn't complain about HP prices on r/mm until MD decided to sell them. Now everyone wants to whine about it because it could be even cheaper.

(Edited)

Apr 20, 2019

Apr 20, 2019

AevynnI see them at $0.65 now too. Looks like they've gone down since I bought, which is good. A lot of switches sell in the $0.50 and under range, some good ones at $0.30. Demand is one thing. Supply is another. If price is based solely on demand and the product is easy to make, someone will step in to fill that demand. There are excellent Panda clones now (GSUS, YOK). It's much cheaper to get those and the Halos and make the switches (simple stem swap) than it is to buy these at this price.

Apr 20, 2019

Vote

Apr 20, 2019

sardonyxI addressed the price difference earlier. It's only $0.13 difference per switch. Which isn't "much" cheaper. I don't get your point. Obviously this wasn't easy to make. The guy who made the original invyr pandas even said it was too much work for him to get the moulds fixed. Most people would also pay that $0.13/switch if they don't want to deal with taking switches apart. Personally, I like the color of the original HP better than burgandy and mint YOK. I'm sure there are others in that boat too. And clones are just that. Although subtle differences (agree to disagree), I still prefer invyr over YOK. I don't disagree that these are expensive. I do disagree with your evaluation that they're not worth the price. P.S. I bought these in the first drop for $0.88/switch which is obviously cheaper than $1.05/switch for YOK+Halo so literally no one could convince me that I (personally) would get better value from buying Halos + sold out YOKs. To that point, I'd still pay $15 for these over clones. Although, if not obvious, this is all assuming that what MD produces are really invyr HPs. I don't doubt it though. Regardless of the crappy mishap of providing OG HPs to reviewers early on.

(Edited)

Apr 20, 2019

Apr 20, 2019

Aevynn$0.13 per switch is $14.30 per 110. It's 12.38%, which isn't insignificant. But even at $1.05 for Holy YOKs they're still expensive for what they are, but it's certainly better than the price here. Someone who has all the tooling (Massdrop) and who doesn't have to essentially waste an entire switch for every switch made should be able to do a lot better on price. They're just making the Halo stems and the Panda housing without the bits of each switch that's not wanted. Also, YOKs are being produced in different colored batches. Mints just sold out, but the next color is already in production. There's also the elephant in the room: Massdrop hasn't actually delivered the first round of these and now we're looking at Round 2, with a price bump. That should give someone pause. On the flip side, Halos and YOKs have been available to make actual switches a couple times in that window.

(Edited)

Apr 20, 2019

Apr 21, 2019

sardonyxNope. Percentages are insignificant. Let's take the cream switches for example at $0.65 versus other "comparable" linear switches at $0.50. That's a 30% increase. Zeals are $1 versus "comparable" switches at $0.65. That's a 54% increase. So I could say comparatively, this is a great deal. You can't just throw around numbers. Either way, you're not helping your point. Go ahead and buy YOK and Halos. You don't buy these from MD, but you'll buy Halos. Great. They still get your money and still made a profit off of Halo switches. I'm sure the profit margins are greater on the HPs but who knows how much they invested into making them.

(Edited)

Apr 21, 2019

coseyfannitutt

Apr 21, 2019

banana_breadLet’s not forget, though, that these rumors were started by supervan whose bias we need to consider here as his groupbuy for panda clones were likely seriously undercut by this drop. He also has track record of being extremely arrogant regarding his switches.

Apr 21, 2019

aquila626

Apr 22, 2019

AevynnI don't have the slightest problem with Massdrop making a profit on their work, but they would not have made the December offer at the price they did thinking they were going to lose money, which leaves me wondering why this 'community-driven' effort is less community-driven than the last, especially given that nobody has any of these in person yet. It also crosses the threshold into 'I could do this cheaper myself' territory which is a little weird given the obvious bulk buying power at stake here, but I understand this convesation isn't about intrinsic value or we'd all be using Gateron Yellows.

Apr 22, 2019

Vote

Apr 22, 2019

AevynnYou seem to have missed the point. Percentage difference is significant when comparing *like options*. Of course cost comparison doesn't make sense with random switches. If price is the only consideration, then someone's going to be rocking OUTEMUs. What we're talking about is the price to get some Holy Panda or equivalent switches. The two points I making are: * Someone can make these cheaper themselves from available switches , so massdrop should be able to at least match that price. * Massdrop has access to the tooling for all the components and can make these switches directly without first making the two complete switches that go into a Holy Panda, which should again reduce the price. Yet, in this drop they are one of the most expensive switches on the market.

Apr 22, 2019

Apr 22, 2019

sardonyxYet...more than 3.6k people bought these. Hmm..I wonder if work in a capitalist (mostly) world where corporations are trying to make money. Sure they're a a thing such as too expensive, but with the amount of people already in the drop, why would any sane person look at that demand and lower the price? That's like ECON 101. As I said earlier, clones are just clones (assuming MD really did fix and are using the invyr moulds). Or you could just wait..most likely due to the price increase, they won't be selling all their HP stock and have some for later. Also, who knows? They might lower the price once it gets going like they did with Halos.

(Edited)

Apr 22, 2019

Vote

Apr 22, 2019

AevynnYou know, Massdrop was made so that people like us could order things for our hobbies for less? MassDrop has now turned into something totally different.

Apr 22, 2019

Apr 22, 2019

oleandersYes, and they have made it cheaper. Were you able to buy HP's for less than $5 before? I don't think so. Literally cheaper. Get in on the first drop of HPs? Also literally cheaper than getting YOKs and Halos. Did you see the zeal drop? Also cheaper. I get it. As a consumer, you want everything to be cheap as shit. Sorry, that just isn't possible.

(Edited)

Apr 22, 2019

Apr 22, 2019

AevynnAs a customer here on Massdrop, I expect to be treated well. And MD has poor track record of that. My issue is their way of doing business, this drop is just one more confirmation that they care more about their profits than their initial mission back then. I don't consider myself a consumer, and I don't like it when you assume that about me.

Apr 22, 2019

Vote

Apr 22, 2019

oleandersPeople who are tagged consumers, being ill-treated or not informed about delays, cancellations or otherwise does not get what they've paid for, usually just silently stops shopping. This effect is less so in small markets like this, but Massdrop is not what it was because they constantly screw over those who cares. I started writing how and what here. But I just don't see why I should care. MD never listens to their customers anymore.

Apr 22, 2019

Gitterwibbit

Apr 22, 2019

oleandersA consumer is anyone who makes a purchase. I don't understand how you interpreted it as an insult but by all means continue ranting lol

Apr 22, 2019

Apr 22, 2019

GitterwibbitI find the use of consumer to be quite offensive yes. Because it entails that I consume for own needs and has nothing to do with my relationship with Massdrop. I am a customer here, not a consumer. Am I the only one who thinks that "consumer" is a negative word?

Apr 22, 2019

Vote

bamacolby

Apr 22, 2019

oleanders"Am I the only one who thinks that "consumer" is a negative word?" Pretty much, yes. It's not a negative word at all.

Apr 22, 2019

Apr 22, 2019

oleandersA consumer literally just means that you consume goods for personal use. The term "personal use" does not have any diabolic or negative connotation.. So, do you buy stuff from Massdrop because you LOVE Massdrop or find that MD provides you with some other benefit aside from you personally wanting/needing said items? Do you have a different type of give and take relationship with Massdrop aside from exchanging monetary currency for goods? No? Then you're a goddamn consumer. Please just take an Econ class on Coursera. I am done with this conversation..lol. FYI: I am not an employee of MD or endorse MD in anyway. They have great products (sometimes) and personally I have never had any issues with them since 2014. Granted, there are delays, but those are expected and I participate in these drops with the understanding that there might/will be delays. It just frustrates me to no end where people like yourself just don't understand words or things that are easily accessible via Google or the like. By all means, feel free to complain more about prices of things and capitalism. As long as other people are willing to pay the asked price, it will stand (and probably go up until supply > demand).

(Edited)

Apr 22, 2019

oandakid718

Apr 22, 2019

Lawlerhatno

Apr 22, 2019

Vote

Apr 23, 2019

Aevynn3.6k people have bought them overall, but Massdrop doesn't reset the count for later drops. That includes all the sales from the original drop. The Google cache of the page is from April 2nd, showing 3.1k sold, so only about 500 sets this drop. I mean, I get it, I'm part owner of a business and I like to make to money too. If you really want to go to Econ 101, there's a sweet spot on price that maximizes profit (due to increase in volume) and I can tell you >$1 per switch isn't it. These switches should have no higher per unit manufacturing cost than a standard Gateron or Kailh switch, which can be had retail at $0.24 - $0.28 per switch. There's really nothing non-standard about Holy Pandas in terms of materials or specialized components that would increase the cost. It's just a slight variant on a Cherry MX design that utilizes two pre-existing molds. (Realistically speaking it's just a Cherry MX Clear variant stem in a slightly tighter housing).

Apr 23, 2019

Apr 24, 2019

YanboWu"The barrier to entry was quite high back then." *Posts switches for sale at a minimum $1.19/each, excluding taxes/shipping*

(Edited)

Apr 24, 2019

Apr 24, 2019

AevynnWow, everyone. Look at how smart Aevynn is. So. Smart. Wow. And we are all so entitled. P.S. Percentages do matter, you absolute twat.

Apr 24, 2019

Apr 24, 2019

maximizeAlright, I'll bite. Please explain to me, using your pea brain, how percentages matter in the context of what we're talking about. P.S. When I say context, I mean versus comparable switches. Just laying that out for you.

(Edited)

Apr 24, 2019

Apr 25, 2019

AevynnI think sardonyx explained it and everything else quite well, already. I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you, and I certainly don't want to read another one of your long-winded, condescending posts. What I don't think you understand is that we are providing voice of customer to MD. Without it, they'll continuously increase their prices. It's not entitlement in any sense; it's a response by conscientious consumers. Apparently, sheep like you will continue to buy without a second thought, though.

(Edited)

Apr 25, 2019

Apr 25, 2019

maximizeNice response. I'm sure commenters are a great representation of all the customers of MD. Great point. Let's just drop the price to cater to the 10% that bitch about anything instead of the customers that put their money where their mouth is. The commenting user base is in no way skewed or a bad representation of the voice of the customer. /s I don't know what you know about "voice of the customer" but it definitely does not dictate price. LOL. Call me a sheep or whatever helps you sleep at night. I'm also a "voice of the customer." I got HPs from the first drop at $0.88 a pop. Clearly a better deal in dollars AND percentages.

(Edited by moderator AlexPk)

Apr 25, 2019

coseyfannitutt

Apr 25, 2019

sardonyxWhile next to none of us will likely ever know massdrop's cost per switch, it's without a doubt a gross oversimplification and simply inaccurate to say they should cost the same as a Kailh brown switch because there's "nothing non-standard" about them. Not only are they produced in significantly smaller runs, they are in fact a different stem. Maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but I think it should be pretty obvious that Kailh isn't going to charge massdrop the same price to produce halos for them as they would to produce one of their standard switches. Halting production of standard switches to produce a switch that absolutely is non-standard reduces efficiency. That cost gets passed on to massdrop and then to us. If they're going to fail at this price point, let them fail. There are alternatives out there for those that aren't happy. But they're not going to take your condescending econ101 advice simply because you're a business owner. And I respect you for that. Owning a business is hard, and a lot of tough decisions need to be made. I'm willing to bet, though, that your business isn't one where you're ordering custom products to be manufactured for a niche audience.

(Edited)

Apr 25, 2019

Vote

Apr 25, 2019

AevynnYou clearly don't know much about voice of customer, then. Customers provide feedback on whether they think they're getting a good value for the price of the goods they receive. You are another voice, and indeed a rather loud, obnoxious one. (Thus, you are literally a twat). Showing up and accusing other customers -- who have completely valid points on the pricing -- of being entitled. Hope it made you feel good about yourself, and I'm very glad you got your Holy Pandas at a more reasonable price. You going to spend this much for some more?

Apr 25, 2019

Apr 25, 2019

maximizeNow I definitely know you have no idea about how "voice of the customer" works. Especially for someone who just uses sexist slurs on the Internet to show his "passion" in a conversation. Just to enlighten you, a voice of the customer doesn't just refer to every customer. You provide feedback on the products. You don't get to spec it, decide the price, and buy it too. Also, I'm pretty sure the 3.6k that actually bought into this is better feedback than whatever incomprehensible shit you're trying to type in whatever fit you're having. Don't have an aneurysm. This isn't a bargaining marketplace. Take it or leave it. Or apparently, whine about it and buy it anyway. Does any other store lower their prices because you whined about it or wrote them a nice little note saying it was too high? No, I don't think so. Price was predetermined and it's not like they'll lower it cause you asked nicely.

(Edited)

Apr 25, 2019

Apr 25, 2019

coseyfannituttAll fair points. You're definitely not wrong and I'm sure MD is not paying much for these switches to produce. They're just taking advantage of the demand and that they'd be the only one with Invyr holy pandas already assembled. Once the hype dies down (just like with Halos), I'm sure the price will drop eventually.

Apr 25, 2019

Apr 25, 2019

AevynnYou don't need to explain VOC to me, Brainiac. Who said I was going to bargain? I'm absolutely going to leave it, and also leave my feedback that the product is illogically expensive. Ironically, this discussion feed is for all feedback on the product, including price. You can continue to bitch about other people's opinions on the matter, which they are completely entitled to.

Apr 25, 2019

Apr 25, 2019

maximizeLol. As someone who isn't buying it, your "feedback" apart from "it's too expensive" is literally worthless. Ironically, you're complaining about me bitching but that's all I see you doing. Oh, look at me. I'm maximize and I just wanted to join the conversation to type sexist slurs and say that everyone else is correct. What a geat addition to the conversation you are. What a great example of "voice of the customer." I'd definitely cross you off that list and move on to someone who had a more constructive opinion.

(Edited)

Apr 25, 2019

Apr 25, 2019

sardonyxYou're only considering it from a manufacturing standpoint. I would even consider HPs as a Veblen good up to a certain point. When you're in a niche market, your "sweet spot" point is moot because you're not even considering demand or the fact that MD basically has (will have?) a *monopoly" on pre-manufactured HPs. When you have a monopoly, customers no longer dictate the price or have a say in it. Enough people will buy it for them to make profit. Obviously, there are clones, but that isn't the same thing and at least 3.6k people don't care or bought these anyway. And there IS something non-standard about these. The IP for both Invyr (or at least manufacturing rights) and Halos belong to MD. Everyone's argument relies on the fact that there are clones for cheaper. MD knows this because: THEY sells Halo switches. Invyr panda switches are out of production. What do you plan on doing if MD just stops producing/selling Halos? I guess you could buy complete clones like the T1. Everyone would be whining at that time and buy HPs anyway even if they were $1/switch because that's the only way to get them. So, in a way, you're lucky you even have the ability to make clones.

(Edited)

Apr 25, 2019

Vote

Rayndalf

364

Apr 27, 2019

AevynnThese don't even use the same spring as halo trues or halo clears IIRC, and the halo switches stems are basically just cherry clear clones, so if there is continued demand, more clones will appear and capitalism will run its course with a smaller number of people opting to buy this... something that essentially amounts to an officially sanctioned clone until people can confirm its on par with the OG switches, let alone GSUS switches or any other clones.

Apr 27, 2019

May 1, 2019

YanboWuIts the end of april, where are the production samples?

May 1, 2019

Mech27

148

Mech27

May 1, 2019

XyzacI have some sitting in my mailbox waiting for me to pick them up tomorrow 😊

May 1, 2019

May 1, 2019

Mech27LOL as if your credibility means anything scam27. I thought MD was shipping the production samples to reliable "community members like @quakemz" Nathan Kim, MechMerlin, manofinterest etc.. not to shady members .

May 1, 2019

YanboWu

8490

Collaborations

May 1, 2019

Xyzac @Mech27 is one of the people that started the original panda switch project - I imagine there is credibility there. Additional samples will be making their way to some of the people on your list as well.

May 1, 2019

May 2, 2019

YanboWuI'm sensing a lot of anger here. Hopefully once they have been confirmed Kosha, folk will be glad just for the opportunity to have them, regardless of the mild increase in cost this time around.

May 2, 2019

Vote

May 2, 2019

YanboWuIf credibility = starting projects and never delivering to your customers, then I've got an amazing aluminum keyboard to sell you. (Reference: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92451.0)

May 2, 2019

May 3, 2019

maximizeBilmey.

May 3, 2019

Vote

t.d.y

May 3, 2019

YanboWuIs the pricing bugged?

May 3, 2019

Vote

CorgiAttackkk

May 4, 2019

May has been the communicated drop estimated date since they first made their announcements, what it has said consistently on the drop page and what was displayed when you joined. It even shows in one of the reddit posts when the drop first became live that it was May 2019. https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/a405q0/holy_panda_switches_drop_is_live/ebae8dd?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x It's a long wait, I get it but it's not like they did not thoroughly communicate and set realistic expectations for everyone. I was part of the Kickstarter drop for the IC Kira which was delayed for almost 3 months with unrealistic expectations set and little explanation. I feel like this has not been bad at all and they obviously are expecting things to be okay since they re-opened the drop to accept more orders a little bit ago.

May 4, 2019

CorgiAttackkk

May 4, 2019

CorgiAttackkkAlso your GMMK is hotswappable, so you could always have ordered some switches to tide you over and then if you didn't like them, you could have flipped them on mechmarket (and I'm pretty sure they included the option for switches). You typically can get around what you paid for minus shipping. Just FYI for the future.

May 4, 2019

Vote

May 4, 2019

CorgiAttackkkI own two GMMK boards.(one using Halo True switches) Was the drop really communicated to be shipping during this month of May at the beginning?(guess so from the reddit post) It's been so long I thought that the date they were going to ship was delayed from what I can remember... Thought it was March or Feb was the original estimated shipment date.(woops) I will delete my comment. Guess my ranting wasn't completely useless. Now I know about MechMarket in case I do want to order a different set of switches for future builds. Thanks for that. I really do hope I receive my set this month or June. I'm just anxious at this point.

(Edited)

May 4, 2019

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CorgiAttackkk

May 4, 2019

Dillacornhaha trust me, I get it which is why I didn't want to come off as rude or anything. I just wanted to make sure to inform you but yeah mechmarket is a fantastic resource! I was able to find some halo trues when massdrop didn't have then for like $40 for 100 including shipping. Glad my response was able to help you somehow. I hope am excited too which is why I'm perusing the comments of a drop 😅 You're right! Hopefully they are worth it.

May 4, 2019

P1MP

May 7, 2019

YanboWuCan you guys just not keep the same pricing? I think it's pretty ridiculous to increase the price especially since the initial drop has not been shipped yet. I was part of the initial drop and my order was cancelled by massdrop the day the drop ended after i already secured my position. I emailed them first thing and was told they cannot put me back in the drop and i should wait for a future run which to my luck is now here but this one cost $30 more for the same thing i could have gotten before so yes i'm pretty pissed about this.

(Edited)

May 7, 2019

zep483

656

May 8, 2019

P1MPyeah this increase in pricing on multiple options is obviously a cash grab and a statement to their customers that they don't really care about them... but they make excuses...

(Edited)

May 8, 2019

coseyfannitutt

May 9, 2019

P1MPWhy was your order cancelled, though, []D [] []V[] []D ? Doubtful it was just randomly cancelled. Worry not, though. YOK pandas will be restocked at novelkeys this month, so keep an eye out there. Then you can just get some halos and end up with holy pandas for the price you're looking for.

May 9, 2019

Vote

P1MP

May 10, 2019

coseyfannituttThese idiots decided to mess up my order and double charged me. Instead of just cancelling one order they decided to cancel both and then tell me sorry you cant get back in the drop & i should wait for the next one. Just fuck these guys honestly, there was no reason to increase the price, they just saw the demand for these switches & literally taking the piss out of their customers. I'm going to pass on this drop unless they revert pricing back to what it was. I'll definitely be getting the yok's & halos to make my own.

May 10, 2019

Ikam

May 10, 2019

YanboWuWhy not nathan kim?

May 10, 2019

Vote

privacyid01

May 11, 2019

YanboWuanyone can tell me how the 50 option is out of stock? I only need 70 switches

May 11, 2019

Rexios

May 13, 2019

privacyid01There's an option to buy 70 switches if you need 70... But I still want to know what happened to the 50 switch option because that's what I need.

May 13, 2019

Vote

ggnome

May 14, 2019

YanboWuWhat's the shipping date looking like at this point?

May 14, 2019

PiotrMKG

May 16, 2019

ggnomeI heard that it is delayed till Christmas at best, more probably Easter 2020 shipping after round 3.

May 16, 2019

ggnome

May 16, 2019

PiotrMKGhahaha this made me laugh but cry a little bit inside since that scenario doesn't seem too far off from reality. I'm still hoping for a reply.

May 16, 2019

Vote

butterturtles

May 17, 2019

ggnomehttps://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/bpiye7/massdrop_holy_panda_update_by_quakemz/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share for anyone interested

May 17, 2019

May 21, 2019

YanboWuYo.. I hope you guys can ship my switches soon. I've received no notice and May 20th was supposed to be the day I should have received that notice. Still waiting....😪

May 21, 2019

radish

May 21, 2019

Dillacornin the post it said they are running 10 days behind. so expect to have them shipped next month.

May 21, 2019

BlindBunny

May 21, 2019

radishThanks for sharing that info.

May 21, 2019

Vote

Zacipult

May 21, 2019

BlindBunnyJust got this email, very unimpressed. My planck also got delayed by 2 months after already being a comically long wait. (Oct Last Year). I think this is me done with Massdrop after these orders... Hi,We have an update on your Massdrop x Invyr Holy Panda Mechanical Switches. The switches are nearing completion and we’re very happy with the final product (and hope you will be, too). Unfortunately, we’re tracking behind our original estimated ship date and now expect to begin shipping in late June.We apologize for the delay. If you’d prefer not to wait the additional time, you can cancel your order on your transactions page: https://drop.com/transactions.If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out. We look forward to you receiving and enjoying your switches soon

May 21, 2019

bamacolby

May 21, 2019

ZacipultYep, what a shitshow

May 21, 2019

May 23, 2019

ZacipultI'm going to wait still. This is ridiculous. This is not Massdrops fault. Will more than likely never purchase anything from these guys again though. Sadly I really want to test the switches so I will continue to wait.

May 23, 2019

Zacipult

May 23, 2019

DillacornOh I am definitely waiting for them. I would be an idiot not to by this point haha. However's fault it is, that doesn't stop it from being a really dreadful experience from the customers POV as you pointed out. It just annoys me greatly that it isn't just this drop that is getting / has been delayed. I guess it is just the harsh reality of group buys.

May 23, 2019

May 23, 2019

ZacipultNo.. def not a harsh reality from group buyjng. This has taken longer than I would expect. This is closest to a nightmare group buy in terms of waiting time.

May 23, 2019

Vote

May 23, 2019

Dillacornthis a nightmare ? I ordered a wrist rest from zfrontier on May last year, it has been delayed since December. This is nothing mate...

May 23, 2019

Wickles

May 23, 2019

TekilaShotCan't be bothered with this drop anymore, at the end of the day it's just a switch. Cancelled my order, now just waiting for my refund. Lets hope they don't delay that as well!

May 23, 2019

May 24, 2019

TekilaShotOrdered this switch pack on December. Sucks to hear it's happening other places on Massdrop as well.

(Edited)

May 24, 2019

Vote

May 25, 2019

Dillacornit's part of the group buy game, I'm used to it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ the trick is to buy more stuff and forget about it until the day you get them lol

May 25, 2019

fderbs

May 26, 2019

TekilaShotThis guy fucks!

May 26, 2019

Vote

Schmuck

May 30, 2019

TekilaShotWe're 6 weeks past the ship date for the Xeno and the only updates we've gotten are a couple posts on GH from zeal that he should be shipping them to customers in June some time. 700 dollar case and not a single email with updates.

May 30, 2019

Zacipult

May 30, 2019

SchmuckRip dude, that is definitely harsh! Just had a quick geeze and those renders do look very nice! Hopefully it turns up sooner rather than later.

May 30, 2019

crowKAKAWWW

May 31, 2019

SchmuckHah, Modern M0110 is 30 weeks late, and DeskCandy (GB runner) doesn't even talk to us on GH!

May 31, 2019

roDDin

Jun 6, 2019

YanboWuJune has come......... and still no notification on delivery....... :'(

(Edited)

Jun 6, 2019

kakihara

Jun 6, 2019

roDDinThe last update said late June.

Jun 6, 2019

roDDin

Jun 6, 2019

kakiharaNice. Thank you so much for the update. 👍🏽

Jun 6, 2019

Christian777

Jun 9, 2019

YanboWuSo they arent coming back out again till December??

Jun 9, 2019

Sadness

Jun 11, 2019

Christian777I'd really like to know too :0

Jun 11, 2019

Vote

WhiteHand

Jun 14, 2019

YanboWuAlready June...but no update.

Jun 14, 2019

mafaesto

Jun 15, 2019

YanboWuCould you please confirm that late June is still when these will ship? I purchased in May.

Jun 15, 2019

SpacebarFlipper

Jun 16, 2019

mafaestoPeople purchased in December and it didn't ship for them yet so you purchasing them in May isn't really making a case for you ;-)

Jun 16, 2019

mafaesto

Jun 17, 2019

SpacebarFlipperThank you for your very insightful input! Seriously though, your comment was unneeded. I'm adding to the growing number of people trying to get an answer, while you're trying to cause an argument.

Jun 17, 2019

HerpDerpenberg

288

Jun 17, 2019

mafaestoThere comment is valid. Your May updates are just as much as the December updates. May items were just overstock from their order that they sold off prior to final shipment. Just because you bought them in May won't give a different response than anyone else who's bought these last year.

Jun 17, 2019

butterturtles

Jun 17, 2019

HerpDerpenbergTheir

Jun 17, 2019

HerpDerpenberg

288

Jun 17, 2019

butterturtlesOh shit, watch out. Spelled a word wrong, all thanks to my phone's auto correct. Looks like anything I said is now invalid. Glad to know we have the grammar police on patrol here on the drop comments section! You're doing God's work!

Jun 17, 2019

D4PPZ

Jun 22, 2019

YanboWuCan we get an update at the end of the month? I assume the legal issues are going to stop you from producing HPs period so please make that known to everyone instead of stringing people along.

Jun 22, 2019

Vote

Jun 22, 2019

D4PPZCan you elaborate on the legal issues?

Jun 22, 2019

Vote

D4PPZ

Jun 22, 2019

XyzacIt actually seems like they may have resolved those issues, or are at least able to in the future. https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-invyr-holy-panda-mechanical-switches/talk/2417845 Zisb's latest post would suggest that the legal exclusivity that he once may have had has been dealt with so the switches can be made and shipped by MD. This was likely the cause of the shipping date being extended a month, as they couldn't produce the switches until these legal disputes had been resolved.

(Edited)

Jun 22, 2019

Vote

Jun 23, 2019

YanboWuAny updates? Ordered in December and still waiting

Jun 23, 2019

Jun 25, 2019

PoblopuabloSame.. Honestly I want an update from @YanboWu instead of others in this chat. Everyone keeps telling me they first batch should be shipped late June. We're in late June now.. I'm wondering if the first batch will be shipped out before the end of the month. If not then I feel lied to tbh...

Jun 25, 2019

fallofdave

Jun 25, 2019

DillacornHoping to hear something soon from them....

Jun 25, 2019

insanedruid

Jun 25, 2019

DillacornThey are definitely lying.

Jun 25, 2019

oandakid718

Jun 25, 2019

YanboWuPUDDSY CALLED IT BEGINNING OF MAY THAT THESE SWITCHES WERE F*CKED. Basically not only were we all lied to, but there is now a chance that we may never get these switches at all.

Jun 25, 2019

oandakid718

Jun 25, 2019

insanedruidThey are, in the beginning of May on the very first Eating Melons podcast with TaeHa and Puddsy, Puddsy confirmed that he has inside information that these switches are permascrewed from the get go, adding that he himself had his own stock of HP's. Basically, while Massdrop tried to sneak in tthe market real quick and offer another GB of HP's, the creator of the HP stepped in and was like WHOA HOLD UP for a second....you want mass produce Holy Pandas without giving me my due cut and credit? Nah nah nah nah. And so basically there has been a crazy legal battle behind the scenes regarding these switches.

Don't believe anything anyone tells on here regarding the status of Holy Panda switches.
Prepare to have all HP orders cancelled.
Demand answers from Yanbo to be transparent and tell everyone the truth with what happened here - because I know for a FACT there is a big batch of Holy Pandas that certain high ranking members of the community received in very late April to early May, and it appears that this batch is being hoarded from the public until they can confirm that HP's are still legal to mass produce.

Jun 25, 2019

crowKAKAWWW

Jun 25, 2019

YanboWuThe lack of communication through official channels this far into the groupbuy is troubling.

Jun 25, 2019

Jun 25, 2019

oandakid718When you say "creator of the HP" do you mean zisb and 27? or someone else?

Jun 25, 2019

LOKIA007

143

Jun 26, 2019

XyzacThe copyright of Pandas switch owned by a factory who make the original Pandas, zisb and 27 were just runner of Pandas. A guy called Supervan says he has signed a contract with that factory, now he is the only one who can run the group buy of Pandas, and he has done several group buys of Pandas.

Jun 26, 2019

Jun 26, 2019

LOKIA007Interesting, thanks for the info. I wonder how Novelkeys get their pandas, maybe Massdrop can go a similar route.

Jun 26, 2019

Vote

mythic

Jun 26, 2019

YanboWuI had the option to cancel my December order until today. Maybe that means that shipping is possibly moving forward?

Jun 26, 2019

Vote

Jun 26, 2019

XyzacNovelkeys are not genuine pandas. They are yok pandas. (A clone)

Jun 26, 2019

Vote

Jun 26, 2019

XyzacYOK Pandas are just clones of GSUS, are clones of OG Panda(Not Holy Panda cuz they are linear switches) They are having some over scale issue on their housing size

(Edited)

Jun 26, 2019

Vote

Jun 27, 2019

YanboWuhope to hear something before july...

Jun 27, 2019

Jun 27, 2019

Digital_DirtI just received a shipping notification for a December order! We shall see in a few days if this will truly deliver(in means of OG panda experience)!

Jun 27, 2019

Jun 27, 2019

DillacornI just received a shipping notification!

Jun 27, 2019

Jun 27, 2019

oandakid718We shall see, I just got a shipping notification. :)

Jun 27, 2019

Jun 27, 2019

PoblopuabloI still haven't.

Jun 27, 2019

Vote

Jun 28, 2019

Poblopuablome too, shipment received! yay!

Jun 28, 2019

Vote

Asters

Jun 28, 2019

RChestnutGot confirmation today as well! :D

Jun 28, 2019

Jun 28, 2019

DillacornAhh, just received it! Nice pretty much on time!

Jun 28, 2019

Vote

Jun 29, 2019

PoblopuabloWE IN BOIS

Jun 29, 2019

Vote

Jun 29, 2019

YanboWuHoly crap, just got notice today, nearly 7 months after purchase, that my switches have finally shipped and are on their way! I can't beleve how long ago I ordered these things. I nearly forgot that I had purchased them in the first place. Hopefully future orders will be more expedient for others.

Jun 29, 2019

internetparty

145

Jun 29, 2019

akarsnerWhat are you complaining about? They're only 1 month late. Did you not see the shipping date when you ordered? I've participated in over 10 drops over the last two years and I've never, ever seen a drop with so many salty, toxic commenters. One month late for custom mechanical keyboard gear is practically a miracle; pretty much every group buy I've ever joined has been *several* months late if not later. I don't know why people expect to get small-run, custom manufactured products as if they ordered them from walmart. Anyway, I just got my shipping notice, and it's less delayed than the other drop I'm waiting for right now, susuwatari. I'd consider this one of the smoother group buys I've joined, with the exception of all the new-old-stock drama at the beginning.

(Edited)

Jun 29, 2019

Jun 29, 2019

internetpartyYeah so, no offense, but you are acting literally exactly like the people you’re describing. You’re picking a fight with me completely out of left field when nowhere in my post was I complaining about anything. I was actually rather pleased that they were shipping at last. 7 months is a very long wait for switches, but given their popularity and this demand for them I moved on with my life and waited. And 10 drops in 2 years. WOW. You must be some kind of groupbuy S-tier expert, huh? Make sure you feel like you can swing that big dick around online and pick fights with strangers over key switches for no reason? Fly away and buzz in someone else’s ear, gnat.

Jun 29, 2019

Hexy

Jun 29, 2019

internetparty It has been insanely toxic. But it's still a month late. I know, it feels like everything is late. I just wish after all this time they'd have a better system for estimation. As it is, I just add 3 months to anything I buy's estimated date. In my opinion that's not the greatest service. But I do keep buying, so I guess it's not bad enough to keep me away. Right now I'm just hype to receive these :D

(Edited)

Jun 29, 2019

Vote

Jun 29, 2019

HexyFirst rule of MD: Never buy anything you need

Jun 29, 2019

Hexy

Jun 29, 2019

diggergigexactly. All I'm saying is you'd figure with the years of experience they'd get better at estimation.

(Edited)

Jun 29, 2019

Jun 30, 2019

Hexy Oh for sure. I wasn't attempting a touché with you particularly. Just making a general observation, but I was too lazy on the phone not to hit that 'reply' instead of scrolling up.

Jun 30, 2019

Rob27shred

248

Keyboard Club Member

Jul 2, 2019

RChestnutWait as in you already got your switches? I got my shipping notice a last tues or wed & it is still showing USPS is waiting to receive the package when I search the tracking.

Jul 2, 2019

Jul 2, 2019

Rob27shredSame...

Jul 2, 2019

Vote

Jul 3, 2019

Rob27shredNah, Still stuck at hong kong - still finding the airport lines check your package at https://myib.com because it comes by international bridge from hong kong

(Edited)

Jul 3, 2019

Jul 3, 2019

RChestnutMy tracking number has yet to provide an estimated delivery date, but as of today (July 2nd) it says my shipment has arrived at MD's shipping partner facility (INTERNATIONAL BRIDGE) which is located in Hebron, Kentucky... so I am guessing maybe 2-3 more days till I get them... still got my fingers crossed though.

Jul 3, 2019

Vote

Jul 3, 2019

Digital_DirtCongrats, Mine is still in HK.... When did you receive your tracking number?

Jul 3, 2019

Vote

JFKroflcopter

Jul 3, 2019

Digital_DirtI got the same update on the 1st at noon. Mine still says the same with no updates, unfortunately.

Jul 3, 2019

Vote

Jul 4, 2019

JFKroflcopter

Questioned to support team of International Bridge with is shipping company from manufacturer in China, and got a mail today. Recent Internal Scans shows that the package was departed from Hong Kong, and coming to US now..... I will contact them again on the weekend if there's no update on the system

Jul 4, 2019

Jul 9, 2019

RChestnutYea for the past 3 days my shipment has been sitting at a Shipping Partner facility located less then 2 hours from me... 3 days with no change of status...

Jul 9, 2019

Vote

Jul 9, 2019

Digital_DirtThat's so sad. I don't know why mine is in the hawaii, even though it's come from china :< I was fucked up because i set my shipping address as my shipping agency in US, to get the item faster rather then get to S.Korea with DHL 'The slowest' eCommerce directly. But it's coming from manufacturer of china directly without any notice. so sad.....

(Edited)

Jul 9, 2019

Vote

Jul 11, 2019

LoL, Mine is in california now.....

Jul 11, 2019

Vote

Jul 17, 2019

Got mine like 4 days ago, bout to lube them, def wish I had OGs to compare

Jul 17, 2019

Vote

Jul 17, 2019

Digital_DirtSame, already lubbed mine with 2303. Didn't realize until I was 1/2 way through that they come pre-lubbed. So you might want to clean it off or just put more on, up to you. I just kept going and they feel fine. :)

Jul 17, 2019

Vote

Jul 18, 2019

YanboWuOkay so I finally got my shipment earlier this week and so, I have to ask as an honest newcomer to the hobby, what makes these switches so great? Seriously? Someone fill me in on why I paid the premium in price and shipping time to get my hands on a set of these?

Jul 18, 2019

Vote

Schmuck

Jul 23, 2019

akarsner... This is the dumbest thing I have read today.

Jul 23, 2019

Vote

Jul 23, 2019

SchmuckHow so? It's a pretty plainly written comment. They came caked with lube, and they're way overpriced. The inconveniences and expense far outweighed the benefits on this past Drop... so go ahead, why was it a dumb comment? Or just had to get your little jib in there to get your dickhead fix for the day?

Jul 23, 2019

Jul 24, 2019

akarsnerIt's a fair comment. I believe that once you have spent time using other switches, you will come to appreciate the nuances they hold and find the right one for you. Like most of us I expect, I started with the usual cherry reds and moved on from there. Thought the reds were great until discovering the sublime delights of tactile and clicky, usually also cherry - and then, BOOM, we discover Kailh and the like, and that's when the rabbit hole really swallows you up... What began with a simple four-switch cherry tester ends up in a 150-switch aluminium tester that cost more than your PC! Jumping in with a product people are lauding because they've come to appreciate what it means to their fingers before doing the route is bound to lead to disappointment. That wasn't meant to sound patronising, but I know if I'd gone from cherry red to this without anything between, I'd be asking the same thing.

Jul 24, 2019

Schmuck

Jul 25, 2019

akarsner"... Someone fill me in on why I paid [money]..." Don't spend your money on things you don't even want?

Jul 25, 2019