Massdrop x Koss ESP/95X Electrostatic System Discussions | Drop

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Massdrop x Koss ESP/95X Electrostatic System

Audiophile

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IDAnonymous

Nov 1, 2019

New to electrostatic headphones. Just curious, can i do this: music source connect to headphone amp. Then have headphone amp output go into energizer input then have the headphone plugged into the energizer? If this is a bad idea, why?

Nov 1, 2019

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Anzial

1494

Nov 1, 2019

IDAnonymousNo, it's not a bad idea.

Nov 1, 2019

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IDAnonymous

Nov 1, 2019

AnzialI heard the energizer for this unit is not as good as higher end electrostatic headphones, but cant I remedy this just by putting a headphone amp in front of the energizer to make the music sound even better? And what do ppl mean when they say the energizer is not as good? Not enough power to get the full sound potential out of the electrostatic headphones?

Nov 1, 2019

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Fayne

2586

Nov 1, 2019

IDAnonymousYou can get better energizers from STAX like the SRM-353X, and adapters can be made (or purchased) for the Koss cans so they work on the STAX energizers. One of the biggest differences is STAX has balanced input (XLR), so you'll end up with higher voltage swings, and somewhat better resolution. Plus the STAX doesn't have the (potential) wonkiness of the Koss energizer, where you need to physically unplug the power source (or use a hard switch between the energizer and the electricity source), or run into buzzing after a few days. That cool $1000 price is a bit painful, but, at least there is an upgrade path for the Energizer as these cans are reputedly some of the best Electrostatics on the market.

(Edited)

Nov 1, 2019

Sander0000

Nov 1, 2019

IDAnonymous"what do ppl mean when they say the energizer is not as good? Not enough power to get the full sound potential out of the electrostatic headphones?": Yes, that's what people have said (but I can not confirm if that is true or not). "cant I remedy this just by putting a headphone amp in front of the energizer to make the music sound even better?": No. In very rare situations maybe it could result in a better input signal for the energizer, but that still doesn't change anything about the quality of the energizer's built in amp. It is not like the power or other amplifying qualities of the other headphone amp would somehow add to the power or other amplifying qualities of the energizer's built in amp in case you were thinking something like that. That's not how it works at all. The input of the energizer doesn't do anything with the power potential or current potential of the amp before it. It just uses the voltage that's on the input, it doesn't draw any relevant current or power from the input. The above is assuming you meant feeding the output of your headphone amp to the input of the energizer. The opposite order is impossible because the energizer's amp is a very special amp that outputs very high voltages. Like others already mentioned: a Stax energizer could be used but you would need an adaptor cable.

Nov 1, 2019

IDAnonymous

Nov 1, 2019

Sander0000I see scottm-dj ask, "Would I use the record (line) out of the CJ preamp into the Energizer and then the headphones from there?" And Fayne replying, "you'll want to feed the energizer for these cans with line level audio." Searching online I see ppl saying "run more powered audio source", "raise the volume of the music externally". Is the preamp with line out to energizer raising the volume of the music without raising the distortion? But Sander0000, it seems like you are saying that is not true? I just want to make sure I understood what you said correctly. If this is using a water hose analogy, it doesn't matter how much water I feed the hose (the energizer), the amount of water the hose will let in at a time will not change because the hole is only big enough to let in so much water at once?

(Edited)

Nov 1, 2019

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Fayne

2586

Nov 2, 2019

IDAnonymousAs long as your audio source is a proper 1+ VRMS, you should be good. This is the have a more powerful audio source thing. Don't expect goodness direct from a tv/cable or low-powered mobile source, they're usually ~0.3-0.4VRMS. The general rule of thumb is, the higher VRMS, the higher top end volume level of the audio. You want to go DAC/Source -> KOSS or DAC/Source -> Preamp -> KOSS. You never want to stuff a full amp in path to the KOSS unless it has a Preamp Out. That'll cause distortion/clipping if you ramp the first amp, and washed out audio quality when you turn the volume on the first amp down. My Koss doesn't arrive until Monday or Tuesday, but when it does I'll happily be able to say how it handles being fed directly by a SDAC-B, Airist R-2R, Topping DX7s, or Behringer XR18. If that is of any use.

Nov 2, 2019

Sander0000

Nov 2, 2019

IDAnonymousAh, I realise that there are actually 2 different issues:

A sufficient high input level is needed to get the energizer to reach it's full potential.
The full potential of the energizer is not enough to drive the headphones to it's full potential.

(And let's just assume 2. is true, because again: I don't know that, it's just what some people say.) What Fayne is saying below ("As long as your audio source is a proper 1+ VRMS, you should be good.") is correct. It is all about having the proper voltage to get the most out of the energizer, and indeed some "weaker" sources don't reach that. A pre-amp could be usefull for this. Maybe you don't know this but a full amp is not only, sometimes even not at all, about raising the voltage. What differentiates a full amp output from a line or pre-amp output is that you can connect it to a low impedance (like a speaker or headphone) and the amp will be able to deliver the current and power needed to maintain its voltage. If you would connect such a low impedance to a line or pre-amp output the voltage will simply drop because such outputs can not deliver current and power (don't try this because it may even cause damage). An amp input or the input of the energizer will have a high impedance so that it doesn't draw current and power, regardless of whether the source could or could not deliver that current and power. That's why it has no use to have a full amp driving the input of another full amp/energizer. But when nothing else is at hand and you have the amp anyway you sometimes could use it to get the proper voltage, but it is not the ideal situation and sometimes can give unexpected problems. At best it can help make the energizer reach it's full potential (Problem 1.), but it still doesn't change the energizer's full potential (Problem 2.), and hence the full potential of the headphones is still not reached. Please note I am not a real expert, I think the above is more or less correct but don't bet your life on every word I wrote.

Nov 2, 2019

Fayne

2586

Nov 2, 2019

Sander0000Ahhh yes. Thank you. I totally spaced on explaining that aspect. An amplifier will be pushing its output at something (generally) less than 45Ω, expecting something connected which is 4-600Ω or there abouts, depending on if it is speaker or headphone amp. Output voltages can be anywhere between 0.5-100Vrms or there abouts, depending on the type of amp. A pre-amp will usually be pushing it's output something around 200-600Ω, sometimes with much more. The input on most amps and preamps is something like 10,000-150,000Ω, professional gear usually closer to the higher numbers. The output and input voltages of line level is anywhere between 0.3 Vrms and 9Vrms (sometimes higher for crazy gear), and generally most single-ended can deal with 1-2Vrms, and most balanced 1-6Vrms. You can potentially damage your hardware with a major voltage and impedance mismatch, or at the bare minimum generate some very unhealthy unhappiness in the gear and totally poopy sound. The impedance mismatch issue is why you should always follow the Line Out/Balanced Line Out -> Line In/Balanced Line In, and never Line Out -> Speakers/Headphones/PA. The voltage and impedance mismatches are why you should always go High Level Out (output trs/trrs/banana/bindings/high level xlr) -> Speakers/Headphones/PA, and never High Level Out -> Line In. There are exceptions based on specific hardware, but those are very few and far in-between.

Nov 2, 2019

Fayne

2586

Nov 5, 2019

FayneMy Koss arrived today. I can safely say it has ZERO problems taking input from all of my DACs, even with R128 applied to the signal sources. It is loud, clear, and wonderful.

Edit: I should mention, audio at +4 dBu sounds rather loud and delicious.

(Edited)

Nov 5, 2019

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