The newest addition to my collection, Mangird Tea playing off an Ifi Hip DAC 2 with 7hz timeless, HD 6XX, HE 4XX, and HD 599 in the background | I've heard great...

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The newest addition to my collection, Mangird Tea playing off an Ifi Hip DAC 2 with 7hz timeless, HD 6XX, HE 4XX, and HD 599 in the background

Vansant93

Bedlam-Inside

May 9, 2022

I've heard great things about the Mangird Tea's. Also, 2 hipdac2 photos in a row on this feed. Is it a good piece? Worth the money?

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Vansant93

May 10, 2022

Bedlam-InsideI think they may have both been my photos... and yes, I think so, it's fairly powerful for a little battery powered dac/amp, I really like it so far, though you do need balanced cables to fully take advantage of the power, but I love that it's a balanced dac/amp eoth both 4.4mm and a 3.5mm SE out, and that it uses a burr brown multibit chip. It works really well with my he4xx and hd6xx, but it also works for my sensitive low impedance iems. And it has a built in bass boost button which can be fun. If the price isn't an issue I definitely recommend it.

(Edited)

Bedlam-Inside

May 10, 2022

Vansant93I use the HD6xxs and they're great to hear how a DAC works for me. I'm also hearing quite a bit of support for those HE4's that's the HiFiMan one's right? Zeos (that funny profane YT reviewer) goes crazy for the XBass and in my experience it works perfect as an honest boost not the big bloated bass other boosts get me. Noted on the price.

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Vansant93

May 11, 2022

Bedlam-InsideI only mentioned the price because you asked if it was worth it for the money, and I honestly can't answer that, it all depends what $189+ is worth to you. I think it's great for the price. There are cheaper options but they lack the features and many couldn't drive the HD6XX properly. And yes, the xbass works great, partly I think because ifi uses ASP (analog signal processing) instead of DSP (digital) so the FR correction happens on the analog side. It's definitely the best bass boost feature I have ever used. And yes, the HE4XX are hifiman/drop (I'm pretty sure there are "HE 4"s, but they aren't made anymore, there are also HE X4 - the newest hifiman/drop collaboration, HE400i, HE400se, etc I forget them all, there are a lot in the HE 4-- line) I love mine, not as detailed as the HD6XX but the quality of the bass is awesome (doesn't have a lot of bass but it has decent sub-bass extension and what bass it has is really tight and textured) Eventually I want to sell them though, and get the Sundara, or Deva Pro wireless. I've heard of Zeos (quite a bit lately) but have never seen a video of his. A lot of people swear by his reviews/opinions but as with any youtuber, take everything with a grain of salt because they are often being compensated to promote an item (whether it's good or not) Insofar as DACs go, they are great when going from your phone or laptops internal DAC to a decent one, but once you get to the level of the hip dac, or zen dac, or something like the Schiit modi, and Topping d10 or dx3 pro+ they are about as good as you'll ever need. There might be slight differences at that level, (I prefer burr brown chips which use a completely different architecture to most dacs, and even that may be mostly in my head, I also have yet to try an R2R dac) but anything beyond that isn't really perceptible to human hearing, so really the only reason to get something better is looks or features (inputs, outputs, Bluetooth, etc) the DACs themselves won't sound any better. Anyone who says otherwise is full of it, and there are a lot of people like that in this hobby. Different amps and headphones make a much bigger and more noticeable difference,, though even amps have their limit, once they become "transparent" (at what point amps becomes transparent is debatable) anything else is snake oil, unless it's features/design or something like an otl tube amp, and those are more specific to the headphones being driven (HD6XX, DT 770/880/990-600ohm, etc)

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Bedlam-Inside

May 11, 2022

Vansant93Glad to hear the XBass works great for you as well. It definitely sounds worth the money now, if it hadn't before which it already seemed pretty reasonable. That's right, I notice there's no apps for any iFi stuff which I like because I'd prefer to trust the audio to the device and only control volume and maybe some fun attenuation features, not have a bunch of EQ and other custom options. Ya, another DROPper recommended them highly and I've considered them a rival to the 6XX's anyways, so let me ask, how do the HE vs HD sound signatures differ? I hear a lot about the HD6s having questionable Mids as in maybe too much for some or maybe just too murky? I use the 6xxs and have found them great, but for a music maker like myself I'm used to so much overall flatness it's hard for me to pick out flaws in FR. I'm just starting to dive into the inner workings, so the Burr Brown use isn't lost on me nor is capacitor talk, other processes, but I am still very much learning. Looks like they used 8 core XMOS (processing after the BB DAC chip, right?) on the hipdacs and 16 core XMOS on hipdac2 which was a main part of the upgrade. What interesting little features, wow. There's a fair amount of heady buyers in the music space as well, but aptitude shines above all to me. How does that parallel to our affordable DAC/amp choices? Aptitude of the gear in the context of personal listening preference and personal setup. That's how I've been coming to see things at least. Snakeoil and brands aside, we're all just trying to improve our musical experiences so I don't know why people have to go enforcing their processes on others as some indoctrinated truth. Great to meet like minded individuals such as yourself on DROP and any other audio forums.

Vansant93

May 11, 2022

Bedlam-InsideThey don't have any apps for phones/tablets but there is a windows app (and presumably one for Apple as well) but all it does is tell you the audio resolution currently being fed to the device and allow you to adjust ASIO buffer depth (for recording?) You also need it to update the drivers, with any update Ifi always gives you at least 3 choices for drivers (plus access to the older drivers if you preferred any of them) right now they have one for MQA decoding, one standard one without MQA decoding and one with their house filter, which people seem to like but I honestly haven't tried yet. So you have options depending on what you use it for or how you want it to sound. While I am definitely not an authority on FR flaws myself, I don't think the 6XXs have bloated or murky mids at all, the mids sound fine to me, (I started out writing this while listening to the 4XXs and then switch to the 6XXs at the end and now that I listen to them again, on some tracks the mids can sound a little excessive, especially certain drum hits) that said, people may think that because they lack treble, so it's possible people who prefer treble turn them up to compensate and as a result the mids end up sounding excessive. They have a very flat mids response, but sennheiser did tune the 650/6XX to sound a little warm so they would be less fatiguing for longer listening sessions. The 4XXs by comparison have fairly similar mids, maybe even a little more in some places, less sub-bass roll off, and noticeably more/peakier treble, (because they have more treble the mids can sound less bloated than the 6XXs, depends what you listen to though) they can sound sibilant and a little harsh on certain tracks, especially if they recording quality isn't good, but for the most part they are only a little brighter than the 6XXs and definitely aren't what I would call bright with the exception of the peak between 6-8 kHz. All that said, they aren't as detailed/resolving as the 6XXs so I'm not sure if I would consider them on the same level, I always viewed the 6XXs as a step up, but maybe that's just me, people look for different things in headphones and I know there are a lot of people who prefer the 4XXs and it's possible that knowing they are just a 650 in a new enclosure has influenced my opinion of them. I have both and honestly listen to the 4XXs more even though I prefer the 6XXs simply because they are almost as good and infinitely more comfortable. There are definitely some songs where I prefer the sound signature on the 4XXs but for the most part I love the detail and warmer signature of the 6XXs. They both sound great with xbass turned on but the 4XXs really shine with xbass because their bass quality is already so good, they just need a boost in bass quantity, they have a very tight and textured bass response. Some people say it's not worth having both, or they got both and ended up never using one, I love having both because they both have their own benefits (4XX - comfort, bass quality, more treble / 6XX- detail/resolving power, warmer overall signature) and love switching between the two. Yes they upgraded to the 16 core XMOS, they also doubled the clock speed and improved the jitter clock circuitry. The V2 can also decode MQA and it has more memory which is great if you use Tidal. I also love the power match feature instead of having a defined high gain setting, it matches the power output to the impedance of your headphones, which really makes a lot of sense and I don't know why they don't do it on all their products or why other companies don't do it. And yeah, there are a lot of heady people in this hobby, and a lot of people with very strong opinions on certain topics. Unfortunately when you get to the more expensive gear there is a lot of what I would consider "snake oil" and companies just taking advantage of the fact that people are hooked on the pursuit of better sound quality. It really becomes an addiction and some people are willing to pay a fortune for what has been proven to be imperceptible gains in performance. You have people willing to pay tens of thousands for things like audio cables, where anything beyond a well made cable that costs a few dollars a foot, isn't actually doing anything. It gets really crazy at the upper levels, and there is some of that at every level, but for the most part at the sub $1000 dollar level you are actually getting performance and features that make a difference and are good value for money. With DACs specifically it's more like the sub $500 level, possibly lower is you don't count features, you can get a great stand alone DAC for under $200, but some people will spend thousands, and then not be able to pick it out in a abx blind test. Schiit themselves will tell you you are wasting your money if you buy anything more expensive than the Modi, but that they are happy to take your money if you insist on buying a more expensive unit. I will say, their regular modi 3e is good but their modi multibit is supposed to make a noticeable difference and be pretty much the best value for your dollar DAC you can get, sadly it's sold out and they aren't taking orders again until the very end of the year, December I think. I will try and buy one when they go back on sale, but for now the modi 3e is great and gets the job done.

(Edited)

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Bedlam-Inside

May 12, 2022

Vansant93Right. I've experienced the drivers and FW updates using my Gryphon for the past...what's it been...year or so? It's such a nice piece it landed in my setup between convenience (car and portable vs desktop only), power (high output for thirsty cans) , and over all bomb sound. I'm glad I don't need to do anything other than an occasional online download to configure the piece instead of an app I have to constantly pull out. Are you mainly a Tidal user? I like Spotify for discovery then use Apple music and/or Qobuz for storage/ everything else. Very inclusive comparison of the two I appreciate it. I have to agree it's hard to beat the 6xxs in terms of being so universal/good fit for all tracks and genres. I listen to LOTS of different styles, so I do require a good versatile headphone. Comfortability is also big because I usually spend some time sitting for a while when using headphones, so another point for 6xx's. iFi also seems to have a custom Zen line for the Sennheizer 6xx's. Quite a bit of unique engineering coming from them between internal upgrades versus just a fancier LOOKING product, but a better SOUNDING product is what we're all here for isn't it? I think there's pretty much all truth in your last paragraph as well. The lower the price points usually the less a person knows, less experience, and extremely frugal habits towards a likely new market for that person. That's going to make snake oil hard and inefficient to sell, right? So it makes total sense that those companies linger in the shadows of the vast and also saturated high end market(s). I never really recognized that price to snake oil discrepancy before you pointed it out, so thanks. Schiit is also good and I know they parallel iFi. Are they British as well? I've used the Bifrost for sometime with a set of nice speakers (I am blessed to have audiophile friends to trade with, chat up, and learn from) so the comedic yet (ironically) clean "Schiit allure". I hear through some grapevine that their potty mouth product names were completely intentional and meant to get a laugh haha. What a unique Word of Mouth marketing tactic huh?

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Vansant93

May 14, 2022

Bedlam-InsideNo, I actually have yet to try Tidal or MQA for that matter. I primarily (and almost exclusively) use Amazon Music HD. They were the first streaming service I had (as a prime member) and ever since the introduction of HD and Ultra HD songs (up to 24 bit 192khz) I haven't really had a reason to switch to anything else. Though I do have a free 3 month Spotify trial I have yet to use and I have been meaning to try Tidal, I just haven't gotten around to it yet. Yeah, comfort is big, that's actually why I used the 4XX's more than the 6XX's, I don't find the 6XX's comfortable at all, though I have a larger head and my main complaint is the clamp force, so I could see how someone with a head smaller than mine could find them comfortable. I've never been a big fan of velour either. I know it's better than leather for creating a seal when you wear glasses (which I do) and it's typically cooler than leather, but I don't like the feeling of it on my skin. I actually just ordered the fenestrated sheep skin pads from dekoni/drop so hopefully those are more comfortable without being too hot. I also just got one of the 6XX signature Zen Cans from ifi, which to my understanding is just a regular Zen Can with a built in analog EQ for the 6XX. I bought it open box (supposedly) never used off mercari for a good price to replace the topping dx3 pro+ I ordered that got lost in the mail. My main amp is a schiit modi but I've been meaning to get another for a while, I was trying to decide between the Zen Can Signature and Topping dx3 pro+ and eventually went with the topping, then it disappeared in the mail and the Zen Can showed up open box for a great price so I took it as a sign. After ordering the dx3 I started to realize how useless the bluetooth really is when I am tied to the amp via headphone cable anyway. As long as I am stuck next to it and won't be moving around, why use Bluetooth and end up with worse audio quality when I have all the cables and a dedicated DAC anyway? And yes, Schiit's name was intentional, and amusing, I myself am the proud owner of a schiit stack (magni/modi) and they are based in the US. They have two locations, so you end up with two kinds of schiit's, schiits from California and schiits from Texas (I'm sure there is a joke here somewhere...) And yeah, the lower price point or "mid-fi" equipment, which is sort of entry level audiophile gear, it's not crazy expensive but it's more than your average person would spend on audio equipments, only people getting into audio as a hobby and/or people who are audiophiles on a budget will buy it and so it is the largest percentage of the market volume wise and also the most competitive. So it's harder to get away with selling overpriced or underperforming equipment, as such it has the highest performance per dollar ratio. After that it's a combination of the law of diminishing returns, and companies knowing that once you are hooked if you have the money to burn they can get away with charging you a fortune for something that only slightly (and in sometimes imperceptible ways) outperforms something 1/10 the price (or less) they also exploit people's general lack of understanding when it comes to audio and how abundant misinformation is. You end up with people willing to spend an absolutely insane amount of money on something like a cable that doesn't actually translate to any improvement in audio quality, who then end up thinking it made the audio better because of confirmation bias or placebo effect. It really does get pretty out there in some parts of the audiophile community and companies are more than willing to exploit that for financial gain. I saw your comment on my other picture. That was the picture I was referring to when I said "I think both may be mine" at the beginning of our conversation, and the picture I thought you were referring to when you said there were two pictures with the Hip DAC 2 in the feed recently. If you saw another picture of a Hip DAC 2 other than the one you just commented on than it wasn't mine, someone else must have posted one recently as well.

(Edited)

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Bedlam-Inside

May 16, 2022

Vansant93No worries on the Tidal, after the MQA sh**storm I haven't heard many users jumping up and down about it. Spotify has to have the best search and customizing algorithm out there as it seems to be the place most people rely on for music "discovery". I've always enjoyed leather pads on mine, but know they can really keep bass sucked in despite (imo) optimal comfort. Dekoni has so many options it blows my mind a bit. I'm still learning what type of material can have what kind of sonic impact. Sheep skin?? Sounds really cool. The 6xx's are great for my larger than average round head, but I'm usually not on the move with them as I'm always sitting down, likely mixing. I'm sure they may slip around a bit with that felty-er material that feels nice but don't seem to impact the audio experience. Sorry to hear about the Topping! Did you get any money back at least if you didn't get the purchased item?? I have had the pleasure of borrowing and using a buddy's Zen CAN Sig 6xx with my Sennys as well and I was pleasantly surprised at how well the ActivEQ button (they have the 6xx custom curve, and the XSpace for the feature button, so no XBasss) complemented the 6xx's. Felt like I didn't even miss that sweet analog XBass feature that iFi is known for because the 6xx curve provided its own bass boost. I'll post a graphic below. It's interesting seeing what they chose should be boosted/not on the ActivEQ curve. Haha good "Schiit" there with the stack. I have enjoyed using my Magni especially for its amp/preamp duality. Re: BT audio; I agree, if you know you'll be stationary, better to wire, but I like having a DAC/Amp to use BT, USB, Aux cable in so I can use in car or with cheap running earbuds, etc so "different strokes for different folks" could very much apply here haha. I like how my xDSD Gryphon is separated so there's one USB-C for charging and another separate USB-C for audio, as many portable items may suffer from a noisy combination of the two ports in one. Looks like hipdac2 also has that separation with the USB-C charging and USB-B audio input? Does it suffer from any playback noise/crosstalk? It shouldn't based on our previous design notes about it. Excellent points about mid-fi competition as there's more users to "onboard" with more unique and diverse value offerings, but perhaps is a land grab of new, post Q-tine buyers looking to continue a hobby that began in the last 2 years. So are you theorizing that there's a higher number of audio companies in competition with each other at the entry tier, or the high end tier of audio buyers? Can you clarify that last industry-summarized paragraph you eloquently wrote there for my sake? Yes that was cool to see your rig. Pictures sometime help me more than talk as I can see actually what's being used with what. Ya, I've seen the hipdac2 frequently in the General feed on the "Audiophile" Community here so have been waiting to get more personally acquainted through other user's testimonies which you have been quite helpful with I must say. So thank you, yes your setup looks quite nice and the talks are very eye opening. I always like to ask this, but if you only had your phone, your cheapest set of earbuds or headphones, and a DAC/Amp of your choice from acquisitions past to now in your setup, what would your desert island device pick be?

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Vansant93

May 23, 2022

Bedlam-InsideSorry, was away in the hospital for almost a week, and sadly didn't have a phone with me, or at least not a functional one. I'll try to go in order here, my sheepskin Dekoni pads came in and I love them! Very comfortable, definitely changes the sound profile a little bit, definitely more bass, but the 6XX's were so mids heavy that it (at least to my ears) sounds better with a little more bass. Unlike the time I tried putting leather pads on my 599's, which made them overly bass heavy, as they are already slightly bass heavy headphones, and made most songs very muddy sounding. Some songs sounded alright, but it also ruined the soundstage and they lost a lot of detail. So those pads had to go unfortunately because I prefer leather over the stock velour pads. The stock pads on the 599's were not anywhere near as comfortable as the velour on the 6XX or 4XX's. I still have the leather pads around somewhere but don't have much use for them, I do use them sometimes when using my 599's for movies or TV. While I was away, USPS apparently found my Topping Dx3 Pro+, so that was delivered despite me having gotten a refund for it, putting me in an odd position. I already bought the Signature 6XX with the refund and additionally I bought a pair of Sundara's on Ebay that I really didn't need and probably shouldn't have bought (I also didn't think I'd actually win the auction for that price) but I also hate being dishonest about those things, so I have reached out to Apos about it and have yet to hear back, in the meantime I did open and try the Dx3 and I really like it, so I don't want to send it back, it's definitely a different sound than my Hip DAC 2 or Modi and Magni/Signature 6XX stacks, I also tried it as a DAC with my Signature 6XX and thats yet another different sound, and I love having options (probably why I own so many mid-fi headphones instead of a couple pairs of higher end headphones) though to be honest I think my headphone collection might need some trimming. With respect to Bluetooth, I have no problem with it in general, and have multiple sets of good Bluetooth headphones (plus I have been eyeing the Deva Pro for a while.) I just think that, as long as the DAC is going to be stationary next to my laptop anyway, I would prefer a wired connection, because you don't lose any quality/resolution. Bluetooth has gotten quite good, but it still can't handle high resolution music without some loss. I think with LDAC it's up to 24 bit/96 KHz, but it is slightly lossy. My main complaint with the Hip DAC 2 is it has no Bluetooth support or there isn't a separate Bluetooth version, they do have the Go Blu, but it has nowhere near the power of the Hip DAC among other problems. That said, for on the go I use my Sennheiser Momentum TW2, and while they aren't the same as a proper pair of IEMs, it doesn't really matter given the resolution loss with Bluetooth (or at least that's what I tell myself) I also have a pair of galaxy buds pro that are surprisingly good (and dual dynamic drivers) and a pair of Momentum 3 over ear noise canceling headphones that are also surprisingly good, especially when used wired, plus I like the built in EQ and the "high end sound tuning" option gives them a more neutral sound profile as compared to the slightly bass heavy tuning in standard mode. With respect to my paragraph about the audio equipment industry, and this is all conjecture, but I believe mid-fi audio equipment makes up the bulk of the market (by number of sales.) I believe, whether pre or post covid, there are a lot more people willing to spend say $1-500 on a piece of gear as opposed to the $800+ market. Now, I just picked $800 as a price barrier but it could be as low as $500, and my rationale is that whether they are really into the hobby or not, $500 is a lot of money for most people, especially to spend on a single headphone or piece of equipment, and it's a lot especially if you are new to the hobby. Many people get into it briefly and eventually get bored, many get into it and are happy with the gear and performance in that range, plus lower end gear has gotten so good that anything beyond that and you are paying a lot for very small gains, so it's difficult for people to rationalize spending 3 or 4 times as much for something that only sounds marginally better. Many people just don't have an ear for it making more expensive gear not worth it. It's already sort of a niche hobby to begin with, the overwhelming majority of people are happy with their airpods or beats. Most of the people I know have never even heard of open back headphones. Audio has always been a niche hobby, and it is just that, a hobby, and so the vast majority of people in the hobby are not going to be able to afford to lay out $1000 for a single piece of equipment, so naturally the lower end is going to make up the bulk of the sales, whether it's people new to the hobby or just budget conscious long time audiophiles. Take me for example, I could afford to have a few pieces of gear in the $800-1200 range but instead I have a plethora of $150-300 headphones and a few DACs and amps in that range (I have 2 DAC/Amps, 1 DAC, 2 AMPS, 7 headphones, 2 IEMs, and 3 sets of Bluetooth earbuds.) So with that making up the bulk of the sales, and with a lot of that being either new people or budget conscious people all of whom are going to read a lot of reviews and get a lot of opinions before buying any gear, I think it is naturally the more competitive section of the market. The high end is competitive as well, but I think they get away with a lot more, there are less people who own those products to write reviews or get opinions from, and gimmicks or brand name go a long way, plus the people buying in that section of the market, by definition, have more disposable income. Again, this is all just my opinion. Also there is a fair amount of brand loyalty, so if you can get someone when they get into the hobby with great low end gear, they are more likely to stick with you when they move up to more expensive gear. My cheapest headphones at the moment (given what I paid for them, not what they were originally worth) would be my AKG K7XX and in that case, with only my phone as a source I would definitely bring my Hip DAC 2, although if it was cheapest given what they were bought for new, it would either be my HE 4XX or DT880, I forget, but in the case of the 4XX's I would still bring my Hip DAC, however for the DT880's I would need to bring my Modi/Magni stack... though, actually the Dx3 appears to power them well enough, so maybe that's a better choice as it's Bluetooth and could bypass Android's 16 bit 44.1 KHz limit...if not I'd have to get UAPP and a Tidal subscription to be able to stream high res music. Almost forgot, yes the Hip DAC has separate USB inputs, C for charging and A as an audio input, and yes it does still suffer from a little noise, but not much, and it is most likely from the source, I think the gryphon has integrated circuitry to handle that whereas the Hip DAC doesn't, I did order a Ipurifier3 second hand to see if that helps, I also really only notice it on my sensitive IEMs so it could just be the noise floor of the amp but I think it's more likely it's from the USB source. The Gryphon also has IE Match, which the Hip DAC lacks, all the Hip DAC has is power match, which is basically just it's variable Gain setting, but more geared towards high impedance headphones, not sensitive IEMs.

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Bedlam-Inside

May 23, 2022

Vansant93Hi thanks for getting back to me! Gosh I hope all is well! No worries on delay at all. I appreciate the testimony on Sheep skin, understandable with the cinematic choices having more lenience, but there is always insane musicality when hearing movie mixes on HiFi gear I love the enhanced experience personally. And it doesn't take much other than a nice IEM/headphone setup through a solid DAC/Amp or a stack. Sundaras?! Huge pickup! I've heard great things about those too HiFiMan is a great, consistent brand. To me, you were refunded as a solution on the company's end so they weren't liable to send you a second product or have you ringing their line often, so I'd say the moral dilemma shouldn't be felt on your shoulder's rather Toppings. Also in my mind, it's time to trim when you truly aren't using or have upgraded past a device or it's performance-point. Sounds like you have it all under control regardless. You have the xDSD Gryphon for on the go listening and that thing blows most portable products out of the water in performance and power, so I think you'll be listening fine with a solid portable and desk based setup. That's all I really make sure I have at all times between music making and listening at my HS5's or 6xx's, or throwing the xDSD Gryphon in my car, jogging, or running errands for the portable setup. IEM's will definitely perform differently than some consumer BT earbuds and over ears (of course), but I found with my 64 Audio Duo's that you can certainly get higher resolution playback with IEM's and can be more analytical or "immersed" if not actively listening as they go deeper into my ears than earpods. It feels like half the time over ear headphones are trying to emulate speakers as that's the most natural/comfortable need for listeners using headphones, so the stereo feeling of IEMs is never as good over ears, but with the iFi XSpace that helps alleviate that. You are 100% right by my opinion as the money for the detailed improvements aren't always worth it to the more vast beginner audiophile markets as the price point doesn't always prove itself worth it to beginner ears and people are yet again stuck without resources like brick and mortar shops to walk in and hear for themselves, and audio festivals are hard to come by as that's more money spent on a hobby that already costs the ceiling of what people want to put into it. So we read forums, reviews, watch YouTube like Darko and others to try to validate our purchase, but never hear the gear until we have it purchased. AudioKarma does meetups which is cool, but it doesn't seem the safest idea to me. Maybe I'm still rather agoraphobic, maybe my faith in internet people has changed, but a store like guitar center for audio listening gear exclusively like they had in literally any decade before this would help bring outside interest into the industry, qualify and validate buying decisions, and help the audio industry make sales in general, so I'm curious as to why none have really sprouted back up after the worst of 1st year COVID economic issues for stores. Your personal standards I'm sure speak for many who also view audio as a hobby as anything north of $500 is an ask and anything NEAR $1,000 is just a risk or indulgence to anyone not splitting hairs about "where the jitter in the high end on that Brahms Suite" is coming from." I think all of your thinking is sound there and honestly can't argue as I think in very similar ways. From the unique perspective of a musician finding these devices, along with many other Pro Audio devices vying for the same pool of my "consumer spending", worth investing in, learning from, and eventually making a mainstay in my production practices, or selling them second hand so as to help others get this gear for a better price point than I got it. Thus sharing the "mid-fi" love (lol that term) but again, it's all how you hear it. When I listen to my setups, it sounds high end to me and gives me an immersive experience or a more accurate mix check, casual or professional, that experience is invaluable to me. I appreciate the competitive edge that companies in our selected range have as, you say, that really can't get away with as much as they are checked and balanced by competitors. A crazy world we live in but at least we have our assurances in places the more we understand about the products in the grander scheme of things. Thank you for summarizing that clears your points up more. Is it a hissy background noise on that hipdac? Would the iFi Audio external IEMatch device help your noise on the hipdac? I thought that device had that feature in it?

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Vansant93

May 24, 2022

Bedlam-InsideThanks, yeah I'm alright, I've been though worse unfortunately, can't say the same for my motorcycle. I live somewhere where the weather is just getting nice enough to go riding and I don't know if it is because people aren't used to watching for motorcycles because they haven't had to for the last 4-5 months, but other drivers always seem more dangerous this time of year. Someone not paying attention cut me off. The bike took the worst of it, I'm a little scraped up with a few fractures, but I'm more upset about the bike. I have an odd affection for triumphs and was really attached to this one. And yes the Sheepskin are great! as far as the leather pads on the 599's, I agree about the cinematic music, you are right and now that I think about it perhaps movies wasn't the most accurate choice of words. I tend to use them watching some movies but mostly long shows on Amazon or Netflix, when a show is an hour to and hour and a half long without commercials they tend to kind of feel like movies. I am absolutely looking forward to the Sundaras, they won't be here until Thursday, but as long as I am going to be laid up for a little bit, having a new pair of headphones to play with will be nice. I agree about the IEMs as well, those and BT earbuds are two completely different animals. I mainly use the BT when I am out and about, for phone calls/zoom meetings, or when traveling for the noise cancelling, but I still wanted to get the best audio quality I could out of them which is why I ended up with the Sennheisers, and then the galaxy buds pro just because they play nicely with my phone. However, they don't hold a candle to my IEMs in terms of audio quality/resolution, I was never a IEM person because I didn't like things in my ears, but eventually I got used to it with earbuds and then ended up with the Timeless, which I loved, and then the Mangird Teas. The Teas sounded odd and unnatural at first, probably because I wasn't used to balanced armature drivers. I got used to the sound fairly quickly though and now I love them, the separation is fantastic, I guess having a bunch of different drivers handling different frequencies helps with that, I was skeptical of a 7 driver IEM before hearing these. With respect to the Topping, they didn't send me another one, they issued a refund because mine appeared lost in the mail, and then apparently it was found. I reached out and they just thanked me for reaching out, letting them know, and offering to pay for it, but not to worry about it. Can't beat a free amp I guess. And I agree with you about trimming when things go unused or become obsolete and that's sort of why I want to trim back. The 599's should probably go and maybe the 4XX's (that I'm listening too as I write this) now that I will have Sundaras, though that remains to be seen. It's part wanting to get rid of unused or obsolete gear, and it's part wanting to make room for potential new gear. I'm at the point where losing a few lower mid tier items and reinvesting into some upper mid tier items makes sense. Unfortunately I don't have the Gryphon, I was simply referencing you previous reply, at the moment my only portable option is the Hip DAC. On that note, I did get the Ipurifier and it definitely made a difference with the noise floor, so it appears most of it was source noise from my laptop, Now it's pretty damn quiet, even with my IEMs, save for tracks that have a noticeable hiss. And no, unfortunately the Hip DAC doesn't have IE Match, it just has power match, which is essentially it's gain switch. It doesn't have any preset gain settings, just power match which is variable gain depending on the headphones, and it'd either on or off, for sensitive IEMs it's better to leave it off. It would be nice to see more brick and mortar shops, I think there are still some but only in relatively populated areas where they can get enough business. For the most part now people like shopping online, it usually costs less than a brick and mortar as well and you have options, so it's hard for the stores to compete. I think what they would end up with is lots of people coming in to test products in person but buying them elsewhere, like mattress/furniture shops. I don't really know of any around me, the few stores that do have good audio equipment now focus on home audio, like speakers, soundbars, home theater systems, etc. Things that people will buy from them instead of online because they need/want someone to set it up for them. Personally although covid has calmed down and isn't as severs as it was, I still prefer to avoid in person stores, I guess I am slightly agoraphobic as well though not without reason. I wouldn't call myself germophobic, I certainly am not afraid of germs or getting sick, but I am careful around other people and would prefer to avoid it because I am slightly immunocompromised due to medication for my autoimmune disorder. I started paying more attention to those things after I was diagnosed and started taking medication that affects my immune system and I learned most people are gross. A alarming number of people never wash their hands and touch all sorts of things or themselves and then eat or shake peoples hands etc... So even the idea of using demo gear is slightly off putting. And yes, there is definitely a difference between what hobbyist or casual listeners and professional musicians or sound engineers etc. are willing to put into gear, and a difference in how analytical they are (for the most part) I think I fall somewhere in between, music (whether listening or playing) was always and is a hobby for me, I think I have a decent ear and I think being an amateur musician helps with that, but I freely admit my ear isn't that good and that's part of why playing music was always a hobby. I can tune my bass by ear, and play just about anything you put in front of me, and play it well, but sometimes struggle to figure out a bassline by listening (especially if it's very fast though some of that is certainly down to the recording) and was never very good creating my own music so I never really got into the technical side of things. Of course the social anxiety doesn't help either, I can't play nearly as well in front of people as I can on my own, though exposure probably would have helped that. Music, in addition to being a hobby, was always a coping mechanism of mine, I find great comfort in playing or zoning out with my eyes closed and a good pair of headphones, especially headphones with really good separation and imaging where you really feel like you're surrounded by individual distinct instruments and can locate all of them in space, where it feels like there is space between them. I really love when the separation is good enough that you can hear and place distinct harmonizing voices. The Teas are good for that, I was listening to a song the other day where the harmony usually sounds very blended together with maybe 3 voices (even on my 6XX's or DT 880s,) and I was able to hear and place 5 very distinct voices (4 of which were all in the same area sort of center right yet still very separate,) two of which were actually the same voice/person. What type of musician are you? How do you like the Gryphon? I would love to get my hands on one at some point, though right now it wouldn't make a ton of difference as my main issue is when using the Hip DAC from my phone or tablet I have no way to get bit perfect playback, I am limited by Android's system limits at 24 bit/48 KHz and going back to that after listening to nothing but high resolution music for a long time is really awful. It definitely makes a very noticeable difference, especially with my IEMs, compared to my set up with my laptop, streaming from my phone/tablet to my IEMs is quite a jarring experience. There is a way to get bit perfect through an app called UAPP (USB Audio Player Pro) but they only support music you already own or streaming from one of their native services like Tidal or Qobuz, that is actually the main reason I was thinking of trying out Tidal.

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Bedlam-Inside

May 25, 2022

Vansant93Yikes! Good to hear you didn't break anything. I've considered external driver stupidity as I grow into my young adult "I want a motorcycle" phase. Triumph and Indian makes are at the top of my list as I love the Cafe Cruiser seat/design types- no choppers, none that I bend half way over to use like the Kawasaki's. Ducati's are sick but I want to cruise casually and if (/when...more if though) I get the license, registration, and bike...I'll likely avoid highways/Interstates. What kind is your Triumph? Totally heard on the convenience factor as I just use crappy Bose Pros for running as any IEMs I try fall out of my ears. Plus when jogging it's still good to have SOME sound leak from outside as I need to hear cars and bike bells and what not for caution. The Mangrid Teas look well built, but also not crazy out there in terms of unique sound signatures. My first IEM set I plugged straight into my iPhone with a dongle, tested some of my songs' mixes and wondered why there was such an abrasive, tinny sound....THEN I put the DAC/Amp in the setup and boom it all sounded way better than Bose and was a big rush of audio color! But for comfort sake I do prefer over ear headphones. Thanks for clearing up the power/IEM match features and great to hear Topping saved you the hassle of reselling the extra amp they would've sent if not refund so woot woot! Something in life was made easy! Take it where you can these days I suppose lol. Very very keen point about our personal thresholds needing to be followed with in person stores like that. I still wear my mask in most stores and get some weird looks and I'm like "eh...idfc idk you" haha. Otherwise yes, I only really see a Best Buy for the most local, audio oriented place and they have basically no stock of DAC/Amps from brands we see on this platform. More consumer there with those....."sound bars" whatever the heck those add to a home theater that our DAC/Amps and existing speakers couldn't. This segways well into your mention of the personal threshold of gear use, active/passive listening, and being creative in applying one's audio gear to different setups. For example, the Zen Stack from iFi or the Schiit Magni/Modi stack with some modest speakers could deliver excellent TV audio output (assuming compatible outputs) more-so than what I've heard from sound bars at friends' houses and whatnot. It must be nice to compartmentalize your musical ear and existing knowledge of the creative process to analyzing your audio setup for best audio quality for a certain use at a certain media setup-streaming, desktop listening, Blutooth on the go use, TV living room use, etc. I felt like a mad scientist arranging the xDSD Gryphon in my car as I wasn't aware that DACs could really help car stereo until I messed around with it. I've seen and heard of other audiophiles experimenting with this, but dang people really don't think outside the box with the equipment they have sometimes. Creative minds I guess. Those DT 880s are great for music making as well Beyerdynamic makes a great, flat FR headphone I've always had good experiences tracking with. Haven't mixed a lot with them, but it's industry standard in my book. I'm usually using the 770s for tracking in studio establishments around town or even at friends' home studios. Very ubiquitous pro audio brand despite their limited range with audiophiles and on this forum. I'm primarily a guitarist who doubles with bass, some piano and trumpet for production and I come from a Jazz background, love latin grooves, and have an R&B/Hiphop live focus when I gig with collabs and in my solo recorded music I try to blend Jazz progressions with Latin applications/licks and percussion, hip hop drum pockets, all with a sound that could be integrated into an electronic DJ set, so versatility is where I like to center my sonic consistencies or "brand" moreover. I always feature a vocalist in my network as I don't write, sing, or rap so I leave the toplines to others and take pride and enjoy the musical process minus the lyrics part. Been recently learning to DJ and how to mix vocals for walls of sound and cool vibes. As for your last question, it didn't take me long to really love that xDSD Gryphon. I'd used the standard xDSD at one point to borrow and pulled the trigger on the Gryph realizing it was the combo of iFi's xDSD and xCAN AND had killer power output it was value I couldn't pass up for a portable $600 piece. With the versatility of use with my car stereo I can't complain at all. Sometimes the battery dies on me at inconvenient times, but I'm pretty hard on it, forget to charge when not in the car, using different Bass/Space features with power modes that eat more power than the device would idle. I'm pleased with it all around. Other musician buddies have been impressed too. It really unlocks IEMs to my ears which musicians aren't always looking for when tracking for flat playback, but when practicing a song, testing a mix, or blasting music in the car the dang Gryph is the size of a small phat phone and I would recommend it if you're looking to upgrade portable. Weird that UAPP/Android are so brand specific, but hey...that's business I guess...? The Gryph also can totally do USB audio and can be used in a desktop setup as well, like I said with balanced/power output ability the device isn't limited in my setups whatsoever.

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Vansant93

Jun 1, 2022

Bedlam-InsideI love riding but driver stupidity and general unawareness is by far the most dangerous thing about it, the second most dangerous is probably just people trying to ride above their ability level, or who buy bikes that are above their ability level. This was my second accident, the first was my fault pretty much entirely, but I was younger and an adrenaline junkie, and I got unlucky. I shouldn't have been riding that way on a regular road, and I rounded a corner at speed to find someone stopped dead in the road with their hazards on, and at the same time the only other car I had seen in a while was coming the other way so I couldn't go around. I basically had a split second to decide what I wanted to hit, a moving car head on, the back of a stationary car, or some trees, so I hit the back of the car and was thrown off. I learned my lesson but have since tired of sport bikes, so a few years ago I bought a Triumph (my fourth, including the one I crashed and the two after) Bonneville Bobber Black. Up until then it was all sport bikes or cafe racers, so I decided to get a bobber and it pretty much came down to the Indian bobber or the Triumph bobber black. I decided on the Triumph and the week I was going to go to the dealership, I found a 2 year old (2018) with less than 100 miles on it about 20 minutes from me, so I bought that instead and it needed a little work because it was dropped on it's side in a parking lot (lightly) and had sat pretty much since new, plus I put a few custom touches on it and became pretty attached to it, my biggest reason for going with it over the Indian, there were a few, but the biggest was the styling, which I really fell in love with, especially the floating seat that made it look like a hardtail. It really isn't good as a cruiser, the gas tank is too small (which they fixed on the newer ones) and the riding position isn't comfortable for long rides, but it's great around town and for shorter rides (under 45 min) and the detuned high torque version of Triumph's 1200 is a great engine and a ton of fun, I love riding and would never try to steer someone away from it, just be careful of other drivers and ride within your limits, that and don't buy a liter sport bike for your first bike. The Teas sounded kinda off and tinny to me at first as well, or maybe metallic is a better adjective than tinny, because it was a weird sort of metallic-y sound, but I also wasn't used to balanced armature drivers because I didn't have a lot of experience with IEMs at the time, I used to be more bothered by having things deep in my ears like that, but once I got used to regular earbuds I was able to move up to IEMs. Over ears are still way more comfortable and still my preference, despite the dollar/performance aspect of IEMs. I could definitely see a DAC/amp really opening an IEM up and making a big difference. I tried running the Teas and my Timeless off my phone with no external amp once and they sounded very 2 dimensional and the overall sound quality was noticeably bad. With respect to in person stores and the current state of affairs, I still wear a mask any time I am around other people and carry a small thing of hand sanitizer with me. I am always careful about touching my face after touching things in a store, so doing something like putting demo headphones on is pretty much out of the question at this point, at least for now. COVID is calming down and becoming less severe, but it's still at the point where it's bad enough and the meds I am on would make it more severe in addition to making it easier to catch, so I still do what I can to avoid it. I have actually been yelled at for still wearing a mask, more than once, certain types seem to get very offended that I am still doing this thing that we were forced to do but no longer technically have to. I just love turning it around on them and accusing them of being fascists, trying to tell me what I can and can't do. As far as places to go, I am in the same boat, pretty much just best buy and they don't really have anything I am interested in. I did get my Sennheiser Momentum 3 (over-ears) from them but that's about it. I hear you on people not being able to think outside the box, in general, but specifically related to audio gear set-ups. I do enjoy finding new uses for things or repurposing them. I'd be interested to see how you integrated your gryphon into your car audio system. And the DT 880s are great, but I am also a little sensitive to treble so I tend to prefer a warmer headphone when listening for pleasure, however depending on what I am doing or what type of music I am listening to, the 880s have great detail, clarity, and overall FR. I really like them for acoustic guitar. I have always admired/envied people who can spread their focus across multiple areas/instruments, I had enough on my hands with just bass, and a little acoustic guitar but even that I sort of kept the same playing style, a sort of bass inspired finger picking style (and a little slap/pop which is fun but quite difficult on guitar.) Jazz, especially with Latin influence, sounds like a very fast/busy/fun playing style. I was/am mainly a rock/blues rock player but always loved playing jazz bass. I am very interested in the gryphon and will probably upgrade to it at some point, unless they come out with something else that fills that role, or update the gryphon. For now I am content with the Hip DAC 2, it doe what I need it too and can power most of my headphones. I do wish it could power everything because it's the only DAC/amp I have with xbass or any kind of bass boost, the Zen Can Signature doesn't have xbass which is slightly disappointing, but it does have xspace and the custom EQ for the 6XX which is why I bought it so it does what it's supposed to, and does it well. Currently using my Hip DAC to listen to Roy Buchanan on my Sundaras because they are the only things I kept out when I packed all my stuff into a storage unit... that and a few IEMs, but I am currently temporarily cut off from all my audio gear while I am sort of stuck in limbo. Was supposed to be moving into a new place, but for a few reasons it isn't ready yet and I had to leave my old place, so everything is in a storage unit and I'm in a hotel with only my Hip DAC, Sundaras, and 2 IEMs and I miss all my gear already. The Sundaras and Hip DAC are great, but I loved having options.

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Bedlam-Inside

Jun 8, 2022

Vansant93Sorry for the late response as I've been traveling. Of course I would heed my abilities riding and really warm up to highway drives, but yes between driving and store coughing I haven't been as big of a people-lover as I used to be- I'm now a hybrid extrovert haha. Forum chats are my way around random chats with folks who I now find.....just odd hahaha. I saw a likely cheaper Honda motorcycle model of a cafe racer style and I'm thinking those lower tier brands may be a nice low commitment into riding. What do motorcycles call it? Riding? Cruising? Biking? Cycling? Motorcycling? I want to know the ~lingo~ before I embarrass myself right? The introduction to the HiFi sound signature in general felt cold and analytical to my ears, but they quite literally "warmed up to it" the more I heard different HiFi setups and understood the clarity doesn't have to be exclusive to warm sound signatures. It's a crazy world to dive into as well, because there's no real way to "get into it" other than learning what verbiage means, how to breakdown reviews video or print, and how to listen to the products itself. I compare it to first listening to Jazz music: If you hear it at first you'll likely only hear calm, soothing vibes that you get bored with after a "head and a solo", but after I learned how to play, listen, and compose Jazz, I felt like I was listening to a podcast in that every instrument had something to add to the musical conversation. Excuse my "La La Land"-esque simplification of a beautiful style of music, but the need for practiced and developed personal context in these two realms remains the same. That's why I think the DAC/Amp stage is essential with IEMs as I don't trust the audio source (unless it's a DAP with quality built in DAC stage) to provide the same kind of clarity and power in the conversion/amplification function. I'll send you a photo (or DM? is that a thing on here?) of my audio setup when I return home, but it's honestly simple: Phone/ Audio source > Blutooth connect TO xDSD Gryphon > 3.5mm/Aux connect to Car Stereo. The XBass is most noticeable in this setup for me between my familiarity with the Subaru stereo sound as well as the seal of the car cabin allowing minimal sound leak (like windows down). Have fun with it though. I've seen someone take an iFi Diablo DAC and slap a BT receiver upstream from it via USB to grab iPhone output and that was 1/4"-> AUX cable to stereo. Jazz bass is so fun I'm glad you dig it. I used to be great at the double bass by I don't think my chops could manage anymore. The Beyerdynamics have alway been good for that clarity they're a brand I do trust and have had consistently good experiences with which is the name of the game for me. Glad the DT 880s can bring the kind of musicality you're looking for. I'm sure those attenuators (as I mentioned Sonarworks) could certainly correct some of that for you. Options are great I hear you. I try to find routines and uses until a product graduates in my setup to being a mainstay then I consider looking at other investments, but remain quite frugal. Blessing and a curse as always. I've seen some things about the iFi Go Bar that looks like a little Dragonfly dongle dac. May be of interest/use in our casual setups. As you said, the industry is full of its own checks and balances, so I'm curious to see Go Bar vs Dragonfly videos that will probably come out soon. I'm sure there's more similar competitors for the USB like Dongle DAC build as well.

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