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The Driver Geometry of the Grell headphones
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keyboard_arrow_downChimera123
18
Apr 20, 2024
@AxelGrell Hi Axel, I'm really looking forward to your new headphones. I have a question:
I understand that the design concept positions the driver in a way that is intended to include more of the natural biological filter - the ear - rather than bypassing it. Logically, this suggests that the headphones can be tuned similarly to speakers, to achieve a desired curve or even to have a flat frequency response, allowing the ear to do the tuning. Is this the case?
Additionally, do you think these may work as reference tools for mixing engineers?
Thank you
jayfrankgg
3
Mar 15, 2024
Will the limited edition end upon first release? Or will production continue until 3-4 years later? legoking1977
8
Mar 18, 2024
jayfrankggYes I did, I'd say I preferred them to 6xx, felt very spacy. I do prefer hd800 to them still, but that's a very large price gap! I'd say jazz is where they preform best.
mariant
98
Mar 10, 2024
This looks like a gimmick to me. There are some fundamental differences between speakers and headphones that may be impossible to address solely with the geometry of the transducer or the cup:
With speakers, both ears hear sound from both speakers. With headphones, each ear hears only the sound from one transducer.
The cup creates a small resonant cavity that doesn't exist when listening to speakers. That creates coloration in addition to that created by the pinna.
The pinna's shaping of the sound depends on where the sound comes from. When you rotate your head when listening to speakers, that direction changes. When you do that with headphones, nothing changes.
(Edited)
Evshrug
3776
Community
Mar 19, 2024
I read your point, and I agree it is part of the localization equation and yet an incomplete part. I think Axel wanted to acknowledge you too, because consumers and manufacturers are both on team “great sound.” Creating true localization JUST with passive headphones (and no DSP tools) won’t really work – nobody disagrees with you there. But I think his point was pretty clearly addressing the primary reason for the design:
“The second more important reason is the right individual "tonality" in the frequency range above 1.5 kHz as our Ear related transfer functions (ERTFs) are very different in that range. A headphone sounds completely different to a listener with a different ear geomety than the headphone designer when the driver placement is done in the traditional 90° (270°) position.”
I’ve heard some good IEMs, but over ear open headphones still sound the most natural because they don’t bypass that outer ear pinna. An angled driver takes the listener’s ear into consideration for final tuning, while a 90° perpendicular “flat” driver tries to force its own color by bypassing the reflections of our outer ear folds and wrinkles. Our ears are the other half of the audio chamber created with headphones. Your ears are different from mine (more unique than fingerprints), so the appearance of “natural” requires our ear’s filter to “EQ” it the same way our free ears do.
At the end of the day, we’ll need to see several reviews and ideally hear things for ourselves to be sure, but Mr. Grell has a long history of success and he’s putting it on the line to self-produce this. He believes in it. From what I’ve preferred with the HD 800S and the angled driver modern HD 500 series, I’m hopeful.
mariant
98
Mar 19, 2024
Had the Realiser been $1000, I would have probably gotten it. There's also the AirPods Max, which seem to have head tracking and immersive tech, but I'm not in the Apple ecosystem and I don't want to be. Anyway, I've been toying with the idea of building an immersive headphone myself, with some encouraging preliminary results. I'll continue on that when I have some time.
AxelGrell
28
Grell Audio
Mar 12, 2024
What doesn't it work for? Have you understood what I want to achieve? I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding. Please read my answer to mariant above. I hope that makes it clear.
ThePastPerfectTense
4
Mar 9, 2024
Grado pads???!!! NNNNOOOOOOooooOOOOoOoOOO!!!! PPPLLLLSSSSsssSsSSSS!!!
Evshrug
3776
Community
Mar 9, 2024
ThePastPerfectTenseThose look like Velour pads to me… and I am pretty sure they will be. All the OAE1 prototypes in pictures from past CanJams have been velour-wrapped pads too.
Grado pads leak and make a very, shall we say, mild seal (I bought my dad a pair of Grado and he likes them, when my step-mom isn’t around to be irritated by the sound). The control of airflow (and pressure) is very important to sound, and grell knows that the pads will be very responsible for bass extension and avoiding the lighter bass pressure the AKG K1000 was capable of.
PiedPiper
7
Mar 8, 2024
Don't know if you can answer this, but would Axel Grell be interested in making a TOTL headphone competing with the HD800S or others.
Evshrug
3776
Community
Mar 9, 2024
PiedPiperA good question for him at CanJam NYC tomorrow! Since he was instrumental in the HD 800 and 800S, I bet he gets asked that question often. Personally, I’m hoping this will be a mid-fi headphone that suits my tastes, but if the OAE1 does that and sells well, then hopefully Grell would have the funds to continue exploring more projects at different price tiers.
The HD 800S is a particularly unique headphone… I believe this grell OAE1 is intended to be something inbetween the HD 650 and 800S, and a better all-purpose headphone tuning. Or at least that’s my hope.
(Edited)
PiedPiper
7
Mar 8, 2024
Does anybody know the material properties of biocellulose material used in this or other headphones compared to berillyum/aluminium ?
(Edited)
ave.runcus
1
Mar 9, 2024
Kira-oinkI don't think a bio-cellulose dynamic driver will cost even $20 usually (of course this could vary by order quantity). I believe this headphone's cost will mostly reflect R&D, which makes sense since it's a proof-of-concept. Just generally in mid-fi the majority will be R&D, especially for dynamic drivers that represent lower labor costs. You can actually look online to see how much such drivers cost.
Evshrug
3776
Community
Mar 9, 2024
ave.runcusYeah, Bose drivers do impressive things considering they’re made of paper. Headphones really are a case of the whole being greater than the sum of their parts. But still, I don’t expect it to be thousands of dollars.
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Listening with Typical Headphones Most headphones have speakers positioned so that their membrane is perpendicular to an imaginary axis through both ears. This creates a sound field at each ear that corresponds to the sound field produced by a voice, instrument, or loudspeaker located directly on this axis on each respective side. The sound is coming from the far left or far right.
Listening with Drop + Grell OAE1 Signature Headphones The speakers of the Drop + Grell OAE1 are positioned so that their bio-cellulose diaphragm is at an angle to the ear, radiating sound waves like a sound source in front of the listener. This positioning also corresponds to the direction of sound incidence (first wavefront) of loudspeakers that are optimally positioned for stereo reproduction.