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BF_Hammer
717
Jul 16, 2017
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MooTaters
382
Jul 17, 2017
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BF_HammerGood point. Though if I'm not mistaken most anti-reflective coatings are about as weak as plastic. I might be wrong, was just from some light reading up on it recently. I know flashlight guys say not to clean your lens with anything but just straight water, no wiping it, or if not, use compressed air...because you'll scratch it otherwise. Seems so dumb to me to have a lens you have to worry about scratching because they put such a weak coating on otherwise strong impact resistant glass. Which apparently the AR coating is only worth up to around 8% reflection being stopped. In extremely bright lights, it may be a bigger deal, but in many I'm certain it's not noticeable.
I've heard of similar problems, to the watch bit you spoke about, talked about by audiophiles relating to people's purchase of Beats headphones. People don't want to feel as though they made a bad purchase decision, so they get so hyped about whatever they purchased, and block out anyone who tries to talk down about it. In doing so they don't let themselves see the flaws the product may have, or at very least won't admit to any existing...especially when said item is extremely expensive(a lot of watches out there, especially those that "watch guys" collect).
I've heard of similar problems, to the watch bit you spoke about, talked about by audiophiles relating to people's purchase of Beats headphones. People don't want to feel as though they made a bad purchase decision, so they get so hyped about whatever they purchased, and block out anyone who tries to talk down about it. In doing so they don't let themselves see the flaws the product may have, or at very least won't admit to any existing...especially when said item is extremely expensive(a lot of watches out there, especially those that "watch guys" collect).
Varholiaglimp
939
Jul 30, 2017
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BF_HammerAccording to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the "small number of individuals" who must buy titanium devices "due to skin allergies" actually comprise ten to twenty percent of the population, which means that at least one out of ten Massdrop members is likely to be allergic to nickel. In the U.S. and doubtless elsewhere, that number is growing as people pass their tolerance point, and it has resulted in the recall of certain wearable devices:
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/21/technology/personaltech/nickel-allergies-on-rise-as-devices-meet-skin.html
An allergic reaction to nickel, or contact dermatitis, usually involves red skin and maddening itchiness. It often involves blisters as well, so this isn't a case of some benevolent side effect.
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/21/technology/personaltech/nickel-allergies-on-rise-as-devices-meet-skin.html
An allergic reaction to nickel, or contact dermatitis, usually involves red skin and maddening itchiness. It often involves blisters as well, so this isn't a case of some benevolent side effect.
namhod
1991
Aug 13, 2017
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VarholiaglimpI have never met anyone who is allergic to metals. I did not know it was this wide spread. That statistic seems very high.
Varholiaglimp
939
Aug 13, 2017
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namhodI understand finding it difficult to reconcile personal experience with stats that seem to contradict them, but in this time of skepticism toward sources that don't offer bias confirmation, I think it's important to consider the limits of experience. I personally know tons of people with nickel and leather allergies, but perhaps that's because I grew up aware of the issue. The NYT stats replicate those of the BBC, Science News and other publications. If they confirmed the problem were *less* widespread, I'd have to concede to the reality despite my experience. I hope you're open to the idea that nickel allergies are a real issue for many of us.
namhod
1991
Aug 13, 2017
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VarholiaglimpI am open to the idea. 10% still seems very high, I guess everyone I know is very lucky and doesn't have it.
LucQc
212
Aug 31, 2017
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VarholiaglimpI am one of those. Anything other than stainless steel, titanium in contact with my skin for a period longer than 30 minutes will bring discomfort. I wasn't aware of this 'till someone working in Health System told me that the cheap metal was the source of my issues. Not sure if I am remembering well, I think I was told it was somehow related to the acidity of my sweat.
Varholiaglimp
939
Aug 31, 2017
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namhodActually, you know at least two! Thanks for the validation, LucQc. This is a real issue even though it might look like special metal fetishism. I sometimes have trouble with steel as well when nickel's involved.
LucQc
212
Aug 31, 2017
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namhodHonestly, before being told that was the source of some of my skin issues, I might have posted a comment like yours. My sweat with the effects it has on my skin is something I have to deal with. I am using Halo Head Bands which are pricey not because I want to brag about owning expensive gear. My eyes really appreciated the work Halo's band is doing believe me! ;-)
NotABot
424
Oct 8, 2017
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BF_Hammer" Your call for common-sense on a web-site devoted to consumerism has a bit of an oxymoron quality to it. LOL. "
This comment nails it.
This is a site which stokes the fires of rabid consumerism. I like it, but I fully admit that it appeals to the budget gadget hunter in me. Look at all the other fashionable, but slightly trashy stuff, especially in the Men's Style section (titanium hair combs? WTF? What's wrong with... plastic?)
Ti is just the easy way to add allure to an otherwise fairly boring item.
Reasons like nickel allergies (I am allergic to nickel, I don't need anything made of Ti) or shaving grams, that's more often than not the excuse that people use to justify buying something because deep down they just want the shiny new toy. I've had stuff made from Titanium- custom bike frame, rings. I don't kid myself that I have a serious a medical or performance need for it though.
I am sure there are indviduals who are more allergic to nickel than I am, and really do have medical reasons for buying Ti, but that's not the reason these items turn up on Massdrop.
This comment nails it.
This is a site which stokes the fires of rabid consumerism. I like it, but I fully admit that it appeals to the budget gadget hunter in me. Look at all the other fashionable, but slightly trashy stuff, especially in the Men's Style section (titanium hair combs? WTF? What's wrong with... plastic?)
Ti is just the easy way to add allure to an otherwise fairly boring item.
Reasons like nickel allergies (I am allergic to nickel, I don't need anything made of Ti) or shaving grams, that's more often than not the excuse that people use to justify buying something because deep down they just want the shiny new toy. I've had stuff made from Titanium- custom bike frame, rings. I don't kid myself that I have a serious a medical or performance need for it though.
I am sure there are indviduals who are more allergic to nickel than I am, and really do have medical reasons for buying Ti, but that's not the reason these items turn up on Massdrop.
LucQc
212
Oct 23, 2017
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NotABot« Reasons like nickel allergies (I am allergic to nickel, I don't need anything made of Ti) or shaving grams, that's more often than not the excuse that people use to justify buying something because deep down they just want the shiny new toy. I've had stuff made from Titanium- custom bike frame, rings. I don't kid myself that I have a serious a medical or performance need for it though. »
For something like let's say a watch case or glasses frame, and if I want more durability than plastic I will go for Titanium. What you think of it does not matter for me. Funnily, 'till a health specialist telling me the chemical reaction of metal with my sweat was the root of the issues I had with cheap watch case or glass frame I would have had the condescending comment you posted. I'm not pretending I need so many things made from Titanium.
Regarding shaving grams, I probably would have written something like you did. After spending too much time on a technically challenging trail with a Backpack weighting too much, I am - now - more forgiving to those looking for outdoor gear weighting less.
For something like let's say a watch case or glasses frame, and if I want more durability than plastic I will go for Titanium. What you think of it does not matter for me. Funnily, 'till a health specialist telling me the chemical reaction of metal with my sweat was the root of the issues I had with cheap watch case or glass frame I would have had the condescending comment you posted. I'm not pretending I need so many things made from Titanium.
Regarding shaving grams, I probably would have written something like you did. After spending too much time on a technically challenging trail with a Backpack weighting too much, I am - now - more forgiving to those looking for outdoor gear weighting less.
NotABot
424
Oct 23, 2017
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LucQcI've done 14 day hikes involving performing medical evacs in subzero conditions. I'm pretty sure that losing thirty or so grams from a Ti cook set over Al would not have made much difference over the thirty kilo packs we had to worry about (our own gear + the injuried party's gear).
There's serious weight savings to be had in some areas, but that comes down to things like how robust a shelter you've chosen, or down vs synthetic clothing and sleeping bags, or how much food you've decided to carry. Ti is just an interesting, expensive and mostly inconsequential side trip that satisfies the gadget lover in us.
Condescending? Yeah, a bit, but that's because Ti for most cases is mainly cosmetic ooh, ahh. Occasionally, for the rare soul, it's medically relevant. But do you seriously think the bulk of people participating in Ti drops have serious medical reasons... let's say, even 30%, or it's an ooh, shiny new toy? Recognise why these drops exist- do you think that people are joining for medical necessity or that Massdrop sells on medical need, or do you think it's so that people can score their dopamine hits hitting the "buy" button?
There's serious weight savings to be had in some areas, but that comes down to things like how robust a shelter you've chosen, or down vs synthetic clothing and sleeping bags, or how much food you've decided to carry. Ti is just an interesting, expensive and mostly inconsequential side trip that satisfies the gadget lover in us.
Condescending? Yeah, a bit, but that's because Ti for most cases is mainly cosmetic ooh, ahh. Occasionally, for the rare soul, it's medically relevant. But do you seriously think the bulk of people participating in Ti drops have serious medical reasons... let's say, even 30%, or it's an ooh, shiny new toy? Recognise why these drops exist- do you think that people are joining for medical necessity or that Massdrop sells on medical need, or do you think it's so that people can score their dopamine hits hitting the "buy" button?
LucQc
212
Oct 24, 2017
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NotABot« There's (sic) serious weight savings to be had in some areas, but that comes down to things like how robust a shelter you've chosen, or down vs synthetic clothing and sleeping bags, or how much food you've decided to carry. Ti is just an interesting, expensive and mostly inconsequential side trip that satisfies the gadget lover in us. »
Between objects made of metal and what is made of fabric what is most relevant regarding shaving weight? That is not the gear with down that is the most costly regarding the weight you need to carry. Seriously.
Don't assume I'm an idiot, I know that some guys here are buying Ti only to brag that they can afford it. You are putting everything in the same category not much better than a Marketing or PR bs... If consumerism is sickening you, you might seriously think of cancelling your membership to Massdrop.
As I previously wrote, I am more forgiving than you are for those buying Ti items here. This does not means I think everything in Ti sold here is even worth the time spent to ask if you should buy it
You seem to imply, going for Ti for riding a bike is good if I am not miss led by what you wrote e.g., « I've had stuff made from Titanium- custom bike frame, rings. ». Funnily, imho one of the top 3 most successful roadie cyclists born in my city was probably riding one of the heaviest bike frames of the pack. It did not impeded him to be so successful that after he retired from Pro Cycling he ended training Team New Zealand.
You remind me of someone else in another forum who was condescendant with me because I bought an expensive Head Lamp. Regardless of what this guy thinks, several times, a car driver in my neighborhood took the time to stop ahead of me and waited 'till I reached the spot where they stop and said thank you, adding that if every road runner was using a Head Lamp like that it would be safer and make life easier to car drivers. Expensive gear improving my safety when I'm on the road at a time most car drivers are not expecting runners to be training on the road. What is the price of avoiding going to the Emergency Room after being hit by a car?
I think I'll move on, I can't see anything positive coming from our exchange. We obviously have a different point of view on this subject.
Between objects made of metal and what is made of fabric what is most relevant regarding shaving weight? That is not the gear with down that is the most costly regarding the weight you need to carry. Seriously.
Don't assume I'm an idiot, I know that some guys here are buying Ti only to brag that they can afford it. You are putting everything in the same category not much better than a Marketing or PR bs... If consumerism is sickening you, you might seriously think of cancelling your membership to Massdrop.
As I previously wrote, I am more forgiving than you are for those buying Ti items here. This does not means I think everything in Ti sold here is even worth the time spent to ask if you should buy it
You seem to imply, going for Ti for riding a bike is good if I am not miss led by what you wrote e.g., « I've had stuff made from Titanium- custom bike frame, rings. ». Funnily, imho one of the top 3 most successful roadie cyclists born in my city was probably riding one of the heaviest bike frames of the pack. It did not impeded him to be so successful that after he retired from Pro Cycling he ended training Team New Zealand.
You remind me of someone else in another forum who was condescendant with me because I bought an expensive Head Lamp. Regardless of what this guy thinks, several times, a car driver in my neighborhood took the time to stop ahead of me and waited 'till I reached the spot where they stop and said thank you, adding that if every road runner was using a Head Lamp like that it would be safer and make life easier to car drivers. Expensive gear improving my safety when I'm on the road at a time most car drivers are not expecting runners to be training on the road. What is the price of avoiding going to the Emergency Room after being hit by a car?
I think I'll move on, I can't see anything positive coming from our exchange. We obviously have a different point of view on this subject.
NotABot
424
Oct 30, 2017
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LucQcTBH I am not even sure what we're arguing about anymore. I think we both like Ti for various reasons, but at the same time recognise it doesn't always make sense to buy stuff made from it.
I'll just leave this close with this drop which ended today, and kind of sums up the Massdrop approach to it: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/kizer-siren-1
I'll just leave this close with this drop which ended today, and kind of sums up the Massdrop approach to it: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/kizer-siren-1
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Hey, on watch forums I have managed to make people steaming angry by questioning why it makes sense to buy a watch with a sapphire crystal that is in turn coated on the outside surface with anti-reflective coatings. When you analyze it with actual logic, you can put the coating on mineral crystals and have exactly the same scratch-resistance for less money. But actual logic goes out the window when consumers are biting on the marketing BS hook, line, and sinker. Consumerism is very much an emotional thing with varying amounts of logic applied by individuals.
Now that said, there is a small market of individuals that try to buy titanium stuff due to skin allergies that prevent them from using steel items. I suppose that a person with very strong reactions could want a titanium key ring due to some exposure through cheap pants pocket material. I can see it anyhow, but suspect most of the sales are not to those people.