How Much Amplifier Power Do I Need?

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geddy76

Apr 12, 2023

Not all power is the same. My Cambridge CXA60 has the same power output (60w) as my Lyngdorf TDAI-1120. However the Cambridge just doesn't have enough grunt to awaken the sub (below 40hz) frequencies as the little Lyngdorf (as tested on my Tannoy XT6f speakers @~90.5dB SPL). So average volume levels is one thing, but overall frequency volumes is not the same. Of course, no pair of speakers are the same. So, in the end, make a sensible estimation and go with the amp you prefer.

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4130

Keyboard Club Member

Apr 16, 2023

geddy76Agreed, make a sensible estimation. A speaker’s specification may list the required voltage or required wattage to reach a target decibel, but crucially, it only states that at 1 kHz, the power required at ONE frequency! Sometimes, the impedance of a speaker varies across the frequency spectrum. While the amp does apply a uniform voltage across all frequencies, the amp will need to be able to deliver enough current to reach the total wattage needed to have the same (or less/more) decibel output as the midtone 1 kHz frequency, and when the speaker’s impedance goes down, the requirement for current goes up! Here’s an amp designer from PS Audio who explains this better than me: https://youtu.be/qfNoGVahHKg I am not an amp designer, so I need to do more research but apart from nonlinear impedance (some speakers and headphones DO have linear impedance, actually), I believe that the power demands change based on frequency regardless. To me, it seems logical that the need to rapidly change directions for higher and higher pitched frequencies would require more and more power to fight inertia, but I’ve seen others say that lower and lower bass notes require more and more power to create the needed distance of excursion away and towards the permanent magnet in each speaker/headphone driver. I wish I knew for sure, but I think I can find out quickly, once I’m done doing my own taxes 😅 (I’ve been procrastinating my taxes by researching audio, but I’m definitely going to get my taxes done on time! Schedule is clear tomorrow of anything but eating and taxes!)

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WilliamJeremiah

Nov 2, 2021

I agree with Warmouth. As long as you're there listening, you're always better off with more power than you need. Whether the same amount of power is used is only relative between two identical driver/cabinet configurations. A professional audio subwoofer cabinet driven with what a typical home theater sub cabinet requires isn't going to work out. A transducer structure capable of handling two thousand watts pink (continuously) isn't going to function properly with a mere couple hundred. Power is heat. Speaker ratings are there to prevent meltdown and/or self destruction. Rms is relative to continuous (pink noise) and Peak is relative to dynamic levels (music). I like to hit the upper quarter of Peak or Rms and half again, when matching power to speakers. Damage is more likely to occur during clipping when underpowering than it is when more than enough power is available and clipping is avoided.

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SuperFlyEDSguy

Oct 29, 2021

Phenomenal summary! Though you’ll never get a bunch of audiophiles to agree on every point (correct or not), I do believe that you did a fantastic job concisely and objectively presenting a fairly complex paradigm in terms that everyone will understand. Kudos! 👏👏👏

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SuperFlyEDSguy

Nov 12, 2021

I just now checked it out (2 weeks later) as I saved it in my ‘Reading List’ until I could find a good time to read it. From a technical perspective, it shines, objective as hell, and surely a 10/10! Your product designs are amazing as well! Do you have an EE background? I even saved a copy of the article to a folder that I keep my amp resources in as it makes a great ‘go to’ document for when you really just need the numbers and no added fillers. 😆 Here’s my very few criticisms: — You write well and concise. You really need to include buttons or some method to “Print,” “Save as PDF,” “Share,” etc. I liked the article enough that I copied it into Word and manually cleaned-up the formatting, just so I could make a copy! If you try to print or save it as a PDF from within your browser, the “Recent Posts” take up far too much space on the right. The result is 50% of the content is visible until you get to the footer, which subsequently take up an additional two pages. That was a bit of a let down. 😔 — Take a look at where you listed loudness of {60,80,100,120}dB, you typed “120db” (forgot to capitalize the ‘B’), at least it’s a ‘two minute fix.’ (Sorry to nitpick, but I notice things others may not.) — Speaking of those bullet points referenced above, they are a sub-list to item number 4. The bulleted list should really be indented (just by a single tab though). — This one may seem like hardcore nitpicking, but I assure you it’s not as I studied graduate Digital Marketing at Rutgers. You see, I struggled to find your phone number on your site and that is very, very bad! It needs to be in the header, big, bold, contrasting, e.g. anything that will get a buyers attention within a couple of seconds or they are likely to move on! Studies also show that buyers return to sites several times before making a purchase, especially for a $$$ item! Do what you need to do that will allow you to stay in contact with anyone-and-everyone visiting, and then send sensible promotions and offers. You should see a pretty nice increase in sales, or at the very least not lose any! That’s all. Those are my thoughts. Seriously, I liked the content that much that I just spent 45-minutes or so writing this follow-up! Keep up the awesome work as I’m eager to see more!!! — — — Update - 3/13/2022 - I realized that a couple of small things needed to be fixed as the post picked up slightly in popularity over the past couple of days, namely: (1) Fixed any words that were bastardized by Spellcheck! And, (2) Cleaned-up formatting just enough to separate ideas and points. ~ JR

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Nov 12, 2021

SuperFlyEDSguyThanks for the feedback. I already fixed a few minor things. Unfortunately the website service that I have will not let me change the formatting its just a template and that is the way it is displayed. I have tried some other templates and this is the best one I have found. I have EE background, you can see my profile here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leonid-leo-ayzenshtat-9a988061/

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Warmouth

Sep 7, 2021

Get as much power as you can afford (with in reason), never heard of too much head room.

alvarg

235

Jul 29, 2021

I agree with everything except the "95-110dB for heavy music" Or the 80-95 for "light music" I recommend everyone go out and buy a SPL meter (sound pressure level) and never go above 85db for at home listening. 85db for prolonged use is already enough to cause hearing damage

HMike

Aug 4, 2021

alvargAgree. I find even 80 dB prolonged to be very uncomfortable. However, speakers should be able to handle peaks 20-30 dB above the average with classical music. Recorded pop music is usually highly compressed, so the peaks and average would be much closer (ie, constantly loud instead of intermittently loud) -- so maybe 10 dB headroom is fine for pop. Also, if you use digital equalization, an amplifier needs more headroom to account for any digital pre-cut. Unfortunately, I can't remember ever seeing speaker specs separated into peak and sustained SPL -- maybe someone that knows something about speaker design can provide some clarification on this? Just wanted to add: 12 dB pre-cut is probably the most needed with equalizing. That's based on my personal experience as well as the maximum EQ adjustment on a DBX 31-band graphic equalizer I own.

(Edited)

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MZKMXCV

Aug 4, 2021

alvarg85dB is for average, the SPL levels stated here are for dynamic peaks. Movie theaters typically use THX standards which call for 85dB average and 105dB peaks (so 20dB dynamic range from RMS to peak).

redboat

Feb 25, 2021

Sounds levels fall as square of the distance in free space (and hence fall by 6 dB each time distance is doubled) but this does NOT occur in living rooms, where reflections have a large impact. So you'll need less power than the above calculations indicate. Also, very few listen to music much above 90 dB.

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HMike

Aug 4, 2021

redboatRoom gain depends on frequency and location in the room. In a well-treated room it can produce a boost around 6 dB in sub-bass compared to the highest audible frequencies. That is just an average -- peaks and valleys could be up to +- 12 dB and vary depending on listening position. Fortunately the brain tends to average out narrow peaks and valleys.

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Nov 23, 2020

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ed_focal_1

Nov 20, 2020

Very interesting post and simple rules to apply. Thank you. I am surprised that you don't mention how power hungry are bass frequencies as opposed to high frequencies. We know that the power requirements double when the frequency is divided by two (If I am right). Does your rule #3 (sensitivity of the speakers) include such principles. Do the increase of distance or the volume of the room influence in the same way how bass and highs are perceived ? My experience is that, in order to avoid distortion and allow clear and "sound" bass (I listen mainly Jazz, vocal and classical), the amplifier must be "serious". Even for regular SPL. Regards

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https://www.mtx.com/library-clipping

Nov 21, 2020

ed_focal_1As long as the impedance stays the same at low frequencies the amount of power would be the same. 20Hz at 8ohm with 10Vrms is the same power as 1kHz at 8ohm with 10Vrms. There are more factors to consider but in general this will get you into a very good ballpark. Take a look at this calculator: https://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

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Scharfschutzen

Dec 6, 2020

ed_focal_1Bass impedance rise is more prevalent on subwoofers than headphones.

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pliedtka

Jun 17, 2020

From my own experience for 2way 88dB/2.83V, 4ohm impedance to drive to satisfying levels with high dynamic music like symphonic, organ, something like 100-150W (8 ohm) of clean power with good current drive should be OK. Once we listened to some piece with crazy dynamics, some decent lows and my friends little 60W clipped because the power supply couldn't keep up with current demands. There was a big crack while bass hit the low note: my friend jocked "ups we broke it". So, yes it's better to have extra reserve of clean undistorted juice than to clip the amp and fry voice coils. 400W per ch maybe for inneficient 83dB/2.83V spkrs, if voice coils can handle it, or large spkrs with demanding impedance characteristics in very large room.

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Scharfschutzen

Jan 15, 2021

SuperFlyEDSguy

Oct 29, 2021

No disrespect whatsoever, but please tell me you’re joking?! 🙃

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