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HPE1000
150
Jan 6, 2015
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Inanis
515
SEALWoodworking
Jan 6, 2015
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HPE1000I do understand how much a custom keyboard costs, and I agree that there is significant value in a milled aluminum case, which I hope my past comments reflect. But, we are not taking about a Filco, we are talking about a company that has thus far presented itself as a (very well put together) value brand. For a comparison, people balked at the price of the Novatouch because CoolerMaster priced it near the cost of a Realforce. Maybe I've misconstrued things, but I think this is a similar situation.
I would hesitate to call this custom though. This is a unique case, for sure, but when I think of a custom, I consider that something where I can pick pretty much everything. Here we get a case, cap and switch choice. Still not bad, certainly! But not that different from a typical Varmilo drop. Really the only difference is the case (which again, does add significant value).
I am not trying to say this Varmilo is bad. I think having more choices, particularly in the high end and with unique and various options is absolutely the right thing. I hope to see more things like this, even though this one isn't for me.
I do agree though that a lot of the comments do see to come from people who may not have the same level of crazy passion for mechanicals as some of us. :) Maybe this will have some of those people investigate keyboards as a hobby more.
I would hesitate to call this custom though. This is a unique case, for sure, but when I think of a custom, I consider that something where I can pick pretty much everything. Here we get a case, cap and switch choice. Still not bad, certainly! But not that different from a typical Varmilo drop. Really the only difference is the case (which again, does add significant value).
I am not trying to say this Varmilo is bad. I think having more choices, particularly in the high end and with unique and various options is absolutely the right thing. I hope to see more things like this, even though this one isn't for me.
I do agree though that a lot of the comments do see to come from people who may not have the same level of crazy passion for mechanicals as some of us. :) Maybe this will have some of those people investigate keyboards as a hobby more.
Makami
4255
Jan 6, 2015
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HPE1000Very well written sir, +1 for that.
First i want to say, that i've nothing against MD or Varmilo, i wish both of them the best and good business.
Second, since a couple of days i own a Varmilo VA87M, just typing with it. This is an absolutely nice and well build keyboard, i love it. Touching the case, with closed eyes, i got fooled for some seconds, is that a metal case.
Regarding the lowest price, this is the same keyboard like this one, besides the case, but i'm supposed to pay 240$ more for the case only, not to talk about the MSRP. No matter what you might say, the value is not given for me, that's why i called this a rip-off. I wouldn't buy a tex case either for original pricing.
Third, Marketing trashtalk via mail: Made possible by the Mechanical Keyboards community. Heck, where is the MD community asking for this drop?
This keyboard does lack some things, this is just average Joe with a "nice" dress. No Mac OS support, not programmable, only white leds (for a very nice price), no lubbed and stickered switches. I'll get myself a gon this year, and wont think twice about the "crazy" price, because i can understand that pricetag.
I could write some more, but running out of time. Feel free to have a different opinion, that's fine by me. To each their own and have a nice day.
First i want to say, that i've nothing against MD or Varmilo, i wish both of them the best and good business.
Second, since a couple of days i own a Varmilo VA87M, just typing with it. This is an absolutely nice and well build keyboard, i love it. Touching the case, with closed eyes, i got fooled for some seconds, is that a metal case.
Regarding the lowest price, this is the same keyboard like this one, besides the case, but i'm supposed to pay 240$ more for the case only, not to talk about the MSRP. No matter what you might say, the value is not given for me, that's why i called this a rip-off. I wouldn't buy a tex case either for original pricing.
Third, Marketing trashtalk via mail: Made possible by the Mechanical Keyboards community. Heck, where is the MD community asking for this drop?
This keyboard does lack some things, this is just average Joe with a "nice" dress. No Mac OS support, not programmable, only white leds (for a very nice price), no lubbed and stickered switches. I'll get myself a gon this year, and wont think twice about the "crazy" price, because i can understand that pricetag.
I could write some more, but running out of time. Feel free to have a different opinion, that's fine by me. To each their own and have a nice day.
STARLORDCOFFEE
68
Jan 6, 2015
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HPE1000Laying down the law HPE!!! Nice work. See you on GH
schonto
7
Jan 6, 2015
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HPE1000What is your end game with this response, HPE?
You think people browsing a very niche website for a very niche device are merely confused about the value of a custom mech keyboard? I don't. Sure, some will just stumble here from other drop categories and wonder what is so special but these people are not posting the responses that prompted your post by and large.
Every feature you point out as justifying the price? Obviously does not justify it for the objectors. You point out the popularity of the Filco Majestouch 2. Think about why that is: its $150 which, while steep, is fairly average in the mech keyboard market. The build quality of Filco is great, thought you're right it isn't an aluminum case. But what it IS is a great base keyboard to further customize which is what a lot of Cherry MX keyboards are about. What it is NOT is a $400 keyboard with comic sans in multiple places with very polarizing color choices.
"This isn't some plastic, run of the mill board that is mass produced to keep cost down."
I think you're oversimplifying this issue. These big bad companies aren't just mass producing plastic keyboards, its simply what most people are fine with and those who aren't can spend a little more and get an aluminum case. As with most homes built on the market, it is better to be sort of generic looking or cookie cutter and allow people to suit it to themselves later than to pinhole yourself into a narrow target market as you do with this keyboard.
Still, this keyboard does indeed have a market and those saying it is a rip off or that Varmillo or Massdrop are ripping people off is off-base, I agree. But chances are that those who want this board have already (or will) join this drop or buy it else and those who won't...won't. At the end of the day sales markets will always be competitive and it is a business, not a charity. People will buy what they want to buy and maybe things are mass produced because of the laws of supply and demand. If no one bought Filco's because they were plastic then Filco would either go out of business or make aluminum cases the new standard.
"Sure, Varmilo could have anodized their boards in popular, solid colors that all of the other custom boards out there have, but how would that make this board special? It wouldn't."
Right but obviously just being "special" isn't reason enough to buy and isn't always a good thing. You could put a swastika on a case and claim it to be different and custom and special but not everyone will find that appealing. Again, maybe things are popular and mass produced for a reason.
So the comments section (the majority of posts anyway) isn't so much bullying, in my mind, as the market for this board being smaller than those out of it.
You think people browsing a very niche website for a very niche device are merely confused about the value of a custom mech keyboard? I don't. Sure, some will just stumble here from other drop categories and wonder what is so special but these people are not posting the responses that prompted your post by and large.
Every feature you point out as justifying the price? Obviously does not justify it for the objectors. You point out the popularity of the Filco Majestouch 2. Think about why that is: its $150 which, while steep, is fairly average in the mech keyboard market. The build quality of Filco is great, thought you're right it isn't an aluminum case. But what it IS is a great base keyboard to further customize which is what a lot of Cherry MX keyboards are about. What it is NOT is a $400 keyboard with comic sans in multiple places with very polarizing color choices.
"This isn't some plastic, run of the mill board that is mass produced to keep cost down."
I think you're oversimplifying this issue. These big bad companies aren't just mass producing plastic keyboards, its simply what most people are fine with and those who aren't can spend a little more and get an aluminum case. As with most homes built on the market, it is better to be sort of generic looking or cookie cutter and allow people to suit it to themselves later than to pinhole yourself into a narrow target market as you do with this keyboard.
Still, this keyboard does indeed have a market and those saying it is a rip off or that Varmillo or Massdrop are ripping people off is off-base, I agree. But chances are that those who want this board have already (or will) join this drop or buy it else and those who won't...won't. At the end of the day sales markets will always be competitive and it is a business, not a charity. People will buy what they want to buy and maybe things are mass produced because of the laws of supply and demand. If no one bought Filco's because they were plastic then Filco would either go out of business or make aluminum cases the new standard.
"Sure, Varmilo could have anodized their boards in popular, solid colors that all of the other custom boards out there have, but how would that make this board special? It wouldn't."
Right but obviously just being "special" isn't reason enough to buy and isn't always a good thing. You could put a swastika on a case and claim it to be different and custom and special but not everyone will find that appealing. Again, maybe things are popular and mass produced for a reason.
So the comments section (the majority of posts anyway) isn't so much bullying, in my mind, as the market for this board being smaller than those out of it.
zoomorph
423
Jan 6, 2015
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HPE1000What if this keyboard had a gold case and cost $50,000. Would that be unreasonable to you? Sure, that's what it's worth in terms of materials and labor, but is it reasonable to have a keyboard made out of gold?
Or what if these were hand-assembled by mountain-cave-dwelling elders at 10,000 ft elevation and the labor costs for that tripled or quadrupled the price -- would that be unreasonable for you? Is it worth it to have such a "special", uniquely assembled keyboard?
It's largely a matter of personal opinion as to what is reasonable. Personally, I think a lot of things are unreasonable that you guys will probably disagree with me on because I'm a very practical person. I choose my keyboards based on what is most comfortable and what I can type proficiently with (shock and awe!). An aluminum case is utterly irrelevant to me since I'll never be beating anyone to death with my keyboard. I don't care about hand-assembled or custom products just for the sake of it -- if they're better at meeting my needs somehow than mass-produced products then I'd have a reason to buy them, but otherwise they're just inferior and non-competitive products. Most controversially, I think it's very unreasonable to own 10 keyboards when you only actually use one or two of them. Again, most people here will probably disagree.
I'm aware that some people are happy to buy products like this, but I'm not one of them. Just as you are free to post your positive comments encouraging everyone else to sacrifice their wallets with you and buy the same extravagant and impractical products, we're free to post our negative comments and mockery to discourage others from buying features that will probably be utterly useless to them at a high premium.
P.S. - The "high quality" market has some of the highest profit margins you'll find anywhere! There is no shortage of suckers with deep pockets who are willing to buy anything special and specially priced under the misguided assumption that it's going to be better because it costs more. I do not believe that this keyboard is worth $400 or that Varmilo isn't making a profit on them. I'm sure that Filco and TEX are both making a profit as well. Even if they aren't, that's not my problem, it's theirs! I suggest that they come up with a more interesting product rather than the umpteenth keyboard on this over-saturated market with the exact same layout and materials. Boring. Don't ask us to take pity on lousy companies who bring pretty much nothing new to the market other than splattering paint on their product.
Or what if these were hand-assembled by mountain-cave-dwelling elders at 10,000 ft elevation and the labor costs for that tripled or quadrupled the price -- would that be unreasonable for you? Is it worth it to have such a "special", uniquely assembled keyboard?
It's largely a matter of personal opinion as to what is reasonable. Personally, I think a lot of things are unreasonable that you guys will probably disagree with me on because I'm a very practical person. I choose my keyboards based on what is most comfortable and what I can type proficiently with (shock and awe!). An aluminum case is utterly irrelevant to me since I'll never be beating anyone to death with my keyboard. I don't care about hand-assembled or custom products just for the sake of it -- if they're better at meeting my needs somehow than mass-produced products then I'd have a reason to buy them, but otherwise they're just inferior and non-competitive products. Most controversially, I think it's very unreasonable to own 10 keyboards when you only actually use one or two of them. Again, most people here will probably disagree.
I'm aware that some people are happy to buy products like this, but I'm not one of them. Just as you are free to post your positive comments encouraging everyone else to sacrifice their wallets with you and buy the same extravagant and impractical products, we're free to post our negative comments and mockery to discourage others from buying features that will probably be utterly useless to them at a high premium.
P.S. - The "high quality" market has some of the highest profit margins you'll find anywhere! There is no shortage of suckers with deep pockets who are willing to buy anything special and specially priced under the misguided assumption that it's going to be better because it costs more. I do not believe that this keyboard is worth $400 or that Varmilo isn't making a profit on them. I'm sure that Filco and TEX are both making a profit as well. Even if they aren't, that's not my problem, it's theirs! I suggest that they come up with a more interesting product rather than the umpteenth keyboard on this over-saturated market with the exact same layout and materials. Boring. Don't ask us to take pity on lousy companies who bring pretty much nothing new to the market other than splattering paint on their product.
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You are getting a fully built custom aluminum keyboard for $350-400 shipped to your door. Yes the styling might not be for everyone, but that doesn't make this a bad drop, or a ripoff as so many people are quick to accuse massdrop and varmilo of.
There is nothing about this drop that I find to be a unreasonable. Sure, Varmilo could have anodized their boards in popular, solid colors that all of the other custom boards out there have, but how would that make this board special? It wouldn't.
If you do not know the going rate for boards like this or the cost involved in making them, then why are you going to make a comment like you do? This isn't some plastic, run of the mill board that is mass produced to keep cost down.
If you want a keyboard to compare this to. take a look at the filco majestouch 2, which costs $150 at the cheapest, and put that in an aluminum case from TEX, a company which doesn't seem to get any flak from the massdrop community. That aluminum case from tex costs $150 as well. So for that, you have to pay $300 at the very least, and that board is just about the cheapest option you have for an aluminum tenkeyless keyboard. To build that board, you have to take the filco out of its original plastic casing, which voids the warranty as far as I am aware. That tex aluminum case is very thin as well, there isn't much to it and I can guarantee it takes much less time to mill the tex case than this case, which is much more complex.
Isn't the whole point of massdrop to bring down the price of (sometimes) expensive items so everyone can get a deal? Because the comments section on this drop just seems like everyone thinks they can bully varmilo or massdrop into bringing the price of the keyboard down, or have them change it completely. You guys could have at the very least been nice about your thoughts and suggestions on this instead of accusing everyone of trying to rip you off.